"Men have responsibilities. Women have choices." Agree or Disagree?

[Physics-Man]

Agree

Disagree

[MlleCake]

I appreciate why it can feel that way, but I don't think it's entirely true.

The way the world expects each man to be perfectly strong, breadwinners, who know how to lead and do everything is a pretty heavy trip to lay on guys. Men aren't all one way, and it requires a lot of men to really suppress who they want to be. Normal emotions, insecurities and foibles of being a human being are treated like a crime for men to admit they go through. It's not the least bit fair. But it's also something that men can speak-up about and change, more than ever before.

Women and men are whole human beings who experience a lot of the same difficulties in life, and men deserve as much emotional support and understanding as anyone does.

No one has a perfectly easy life.

[jonahbona]

thank you

[Anonymous]

Anyone who disagrees needs to swallow the reality pill but I’m warning you, it’s not a pretty world without the delusions.

[atheistaredumb]

yup true

[Anonymous]

Men only gain respect through AGENCY. They are respect for what they can do. Attractive women can survive off of appearance and identity.

[Bananaman177]

Women have more choices, men have more responsibilities.

[lumos]

Fully disagree. Every functioning adult has responsibilities and choices.
Funny example:
My grandpa’s health has gotten a bit worse, so we had to sell his house and have him move in to a home for the elderly. My mom has two half-brothers. She didn’t want his house because she didn’t grow up in it/had no attachments to it, so she sold her part to her brothers a long time ago. Technically they got all the responsibility to empty it out and sell it, since my mom has nothing to do with it legally. But guess who has been orchestrating the move, the emptying of the house and the cleaning? My mom. Guess who my grandpa ordered to do it all? My mom. Guess who had to do fuck all and barely even tagged along to help her? Her brothers. One of them didn’t help emptying out the house because he was too busy having brunch with his friends. The other brother just sat around with his hands in his pockets and waited for my mom to take charge. Hadn’t she done it, my grandpa would have cussed her out. They got most of it done in a day. Then when they had to finish it up, neither of her brothers showed. One of them didn’t show up because he had a hangover. Imagine that. So my mom, as per usual, ended up doing most of the work on a house she had nothing to do with.
Just an example to demonstrate that gender has nothing to do with it. Her brothers had all the legal responsibilities to take care of the house, but they chose to have my mom do it all for them. There are both privileged men and women who never have to lift a finger in their life, and those who feel like the world is resting on their shoulders. To assume anyone is just cruising by in life without even knowing what their situation is like, is highly judgmental and a pretty shitty person. Y’all don’t know what other people are going through, so to make assumptions like that is extremely arrogant.

[lumos]

Those who assume anyone is cruising by in life without even knowing what their situation is like, are highly judmental and pretty shitty people*. Lost my train of thought for a sec there lol

[Robertcw]

I half-disagree. I wouldn't consider that a repsonsibility if her father asked her sirectly for help. That's a gift that won't be there when he dies.

As for the rest, completely disagree. It is 100% possible to live free of responsibility.

[lumos]

@Robertcw the only reason he even asked her is because 1) he has always had higher expectations of her and 2) he knew that if he even tried asking his sons, they'd make things overly difficult because they've never had that kind of responsibility before, and would most likely push it on my mom anyways. It's not like he asked her nicely either, it was a command. He was a pretty stern man when it came to these things. At least with my mom. So I know that she didn't consider it to be a gift, to empty a big house she never lived in, full of stuff that wasn't hers (most of it was either tossed/donated or given to my uncles).

I think it's only possible to live free of responsibility if you're extremely handicapped, a complete leech who lives off of your parents your entire life, or in a coma at a hospital. You're always responsible for yourself otherwise. You have the responsibility of feeding yourself, clothing yourself, looking after your health, paying your own bills on time, taking care of your apartment/house, going to work, doing your job... the list goes on. So all in all 99% of people on this planet have responsibilities.

[Robertcw]

What I mean is that it's possible to have no bills or very few. For example, van life.

This makes it possible to not need to have a job. You can do independent contract work until you can afford food and car insurance, and then you're basically done. A gym membership gives you a shower.

Portable stoves for backpacking can be bought. Ice chest for food. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[lumos]

@Robertcw you're still responsible for taking care of your van and yourself. Paying insurance is a responsibility. So in this case, "It is 100% possible to live free of responsibility." doesn't apply.

[madhatters4]

disagree. all people face both responsibilities and choices.

[Investigator]

I find this question interesting, because the answers are very revealing of even this sample size: most of the women are talking about sociological functions, as in they observe everyone to have the same societal burdens and responsibilities. This is a very narrow, monolithic idea that exemplifies the "feminist" ideal of equality, i. e. that men and women are interchangeable and have equal measures of hardship. It is a "narrow" mindset, because it precludes the concept of biological imperatives, something which a lot of women are unconsciously-aware of, but would probably rather pretend don't exist, because it means they aren't truly equals (implying the ideal "world of equals" is filled with asexual clones that are all functionally the same, save for a few idiosyncratic differences in behavior) and they aren't.

The men, on the other hand, are not under any delusions of function: they are fully aware of what they can and cannot do. There is no campaign for men to be stay at home dads or be house husbands, because they are assumed to be self-reliant and undeserving of outside help. Men are the workers of society, they are expected to do the heavy lifting and maintain the infrastructure. Their biological directive is to be providers and they know it. Up until very recently, this worked out pretty well... and then World War 2 happened and suddenly women were needed in the workplace because men were at war. Now, women can occupy the same positions in society as men--keyword being "can", because unlike men, women aren't needed in the workplace. Now, sure, there are some places where they bring unique perspectives that men simply lack, but for all intents and purposes, their involvement in modern careers is entirely optional... unless we're talking about single mothers, then it isn't a choice, although getting involved with the man that helped bring that life into the world certainly was.

The bottom line is that, while modern women are increasingly-convinced of the idealistic world where men and women are effectively the same thing, in both responsibilities and abilities, it seems to be a few women and a majority of men that are aware of the cold, harsh reality: they are NOT the same. The law says they are equal, because they are both autonomous beings that can make rational, informed decisions, but realistically they are not interchangeable and we shouldn't pretend like they are.

[Anonymous]

This literally makes no sense outside of sexist delusion. In fact, in my family women have waaaaay more responsibilities. Or I should say they actually own up to their responsibilities.

If you told my mom this she would laugh hysterically. Like many women, her life has been nothing but responsibility. She had to take responsibility and graduate high school unlike all her siblings, she took responsibility for her education and career and got a college degree, masters, and a well paying government job with a pension. She took responsibility when she got pregnant and became a working mother while getting the masters to help her get the higher paying job so she could give me a better life. She has taken up way more additional responsibilities than she should helping out our family members. My mom has known nothing but responsibility, to the point that she feels like she has missed out on enjoying life in many ways and she is one of millions of women with the same story.

You'd have to live under a rock to believe women dont have responsibilities. Everyone has both responsibilities and choices. I am the only one responsible for my life. My life is definitely easier compared to my mom's life growing up (poverty), but my own life is filled with responsibilities. If I didn't handle my responsibilities I wouldn't have achieved any of the things that I have in life and I wouldn't be headed anywhere new either.

[atheistaredumb]

where is the dad

[Opinion Owner]

@atheistaredumb

My parents are married and both full time workers. My mom didn't marry a rich man who could relieve all her responsibilities and burdens. Like most women, she married someone in the same class group as her own and they worked together to get out of poverty.

My dad has responsibilities. My mom has responsibilities. They would both find the idea that my mom has no responsibilities to be completely ridiculous. She at least has as many as my dad, if not more.

[OldArmyDog]

It is probably my age but as for dating and going out,..., you'd be hard pressed to find a Female in my are of South Carolina that would "choose" to pay the bill! LOL!!! Males fall into the "payer all too easily these days, we are from a time when Females EXPECTED the Males to pay, "courting", open doors, pull out a chair, Stand up when Females entered the room or to the table, etc. If I invite, I pay- if they invite and make all these plans,..., they are going to pay, it's their deal,, they wanted to go out. Serious relationships are another matter, but only to a point, When I was married my ex would take ME out and it was very liberating to have someone you love just treat you- Males need that too! ( and tho we are not together, we are still good friends) Casual dates tho- I feel that one who invites should be the happy host/hostess. And yes I have invited gals out, happily paid the bill and yet never heard from them again since they waited for that next call from you. SO am I shallow for this way of thinking or are the gals for waiting for it to be all on the Male again- if not they won't bother. In other facets of folks' lives, I believe both have the same ability to choose/decide/ work, places where to live, everyday life decisions, etc. but the in the dating arena, old ways seem to be a live and will in my area at least- sorry to say.

[Robertcw]

You can opt-out of this. I am doing that.

I am bucking social exceptions in every domain and am only doing things I want to do.

I ignore critics of my choices and continue onwards with my vision. This is very unconventional , but doing this eliminates traditions including the one where men aren't allowed to not have responsibilities. People notice too.

And most will make your life more difficult out of resentment, but there's only one way to maximize your quality of life and as far as I can tell this is the only way.

[Robertcw]

Yeah. Someday I wouldn't mind living van life. external-content.duckduckgo.com/.../

[hellionthesagereborn]

Yes the greater burden of responsibility in most cases does lay with men (more often then not), its also true that women have far more options then men do (women choose to work or not, men do not. Women choose whether or not to go into the military, for the overwhelming majority of history men did not. Women choose to keep their children or not, men have no choice, if a man does wrong he is severely and unapologetically punished for it, women are rarely punished for wrong doing and even then it is done begrudgingly and with all the excuses in the world for their actions, etc.).

[Anonymous]

Correct, mostly. Women have responsibilities if they choose to. Men have responsibilities if they want to have any life at all. Essentially, men have only one path to success in life, and that is to have a stable, lucrative career. Women can choose to have a serious career if they want, or they can marry a man to take care of the serious stuff and just be a mom or "follow their heart" and have an easy or fun career without worrying about having to earn a lot of money, which many, many women do.

So yeah, women absolutely have choices men don't have.

[dipta]

I don't know. Thousands of men aren't really the working type, they would rather bum around or drink beer all day, yet somehow ended up being pressured into working by their parents. Many times pressured by their girlfriends or wives who have to stay home taking care of the baby because he won't - not to mention there was once a world where women couldn't find a job, especially if they had children. Many still can't find one.

And I guess that when we talk about working, we always forget that there are thousands of people who have a job but drag themselves all day long and produce very little. There are also many housewives who didn't have a choice, bust themselves all day, including weekends and holidays, have the house running with whatever money the husband brings you in (if he's not one of those who runs it all on gambling, drinking or what else) and are still considered to be worth 0 because they don't have a "real job" or "responsibility".

It's all subjective. Not all men are responsible gentlemen, the same way not all women are princesses with a world of options.

[Opinion Owner]

@dipta I agree that not all men and not all women fall into the generalizations I've made here. But as a rule, what I said is true. Women have far more choices and paths to success and happiness in life than men do. Yes, there are men who are lazy and unmotivated, but they are generally unsuccessful in life and with women. The same cannot be said for women.

As I said, there are exceptions, but they are just that... exceptions.

In general, men have responsibilities and women have choices.

[Anonymous]

It's an oversimplification, but it's quite true in a lot of ways.

Men are expected to be breadwinners, and have little or no say whether or not they want to be parents, since birth control is the responsibility of women. But women have a free choice whether or not they want to be mothers, since the guy has to pay child support regardless. They also get to choose if they want to stay at home or work, and the man has to find a way to make it work.

[Poppykate]

If you don’t want children... wrap it!

[Opinion Owner]

@Poppykate Most of us do, but it doesn't always work, can be tampered with and costs 10 times more than oral contraceptives.

[dipta]

Men "have little or no say whether or not they want to be parents, since birth control is the responsibility of women"

What? I can understand you not being able to force a woman through pregnancy, but I can't force a man to father my child either.
Birth control is men's responsibility too.

[Opinion Owner]

@dipta There's no male pill and condoms have a real-life efficacy rate of 85%. So 15% of women who use condoms as their main form of contraception get pregnant each year.

[Opinion Owner]

@dipta Over a lifetime, that means that if a man uses condoms as his only contraceptive he's bound to get someone pregnant.

[Browneye57]

Didn't you post something similar earlier? You're on FIRE!!

This goes along with... the burden of performance is on the man. He is responsible for EVERYTHING. If you fail, she'll bail. Guaranteed.

[Physics-Man]

No, I haven't posted something similar recently Sir. Not that I can recall.

[Browneye57]

Ah, it was this one: Primarily, a man loves you for you, and a woman loves you for what you do. True or False? ↗

[emmily2396]

So your mom didn't have the responsability to feed you, change your diapers, help you do your homework, etc? Obly your dad raised you?
That was just an example.

[esotericstory]

Technically she could have just given him up for adoption.

[100lbguy]

@esotericstory and technically guys have no choice, so they are forced to adopt. But that world doesn't exist.

[Benedek38]

@100lbguy Actually goos luck adopting a kid as a single guy.

[Pinay_ako]

This is so sexist. We all have responsibilities and choices. But it is all up to us to be responsible and choose the right choices to make it out alive

[TheSpartan]

While I don’t necessarily agree with the statement in question, the truth is that reality is sexist.

[TheSpartan]

Rarely, if ever, does really fit well with egalitarian presuppositions.

[TheSpartan]

reality* not really

[Киттйлинк]

Nope. We all have choices, and we all have responsibilities... it is our choice to determine if we take those responsibilities or face consequences.

Only vegetables regardless of sex, have no choices or responsibilities.. and that is sad.

[Lightning8]

I think there is something to be said for the fact that it's more acceptable for a man to have more responsibilities compared to a woman, than for a woman to have more responsibilities compared to a man.

That's just societal, but women also expect their mate to be either equal to or better than them in competence. So when it comes to at least the necessities in the relationship, it's usually more on the guy.

[BeMuse]

You have choices in dating as a man, you just have to be willing to make those choices and walk away when you’re not getting what you want. In order to negotiate a better position you need to have other options and be willing to stand for what you want and risk walking away. It’s like negotiating a new job salary by pulling multiple companies into a bidding war. If you have value people will be flexible to your demands if someone else might snatch you up.

[Anonymous]

I have a responsibility to feed myself, pay my bills, feed my cat and her to the vet. If you're a functioning adult, you have responsibilities. If I chose not to do this stuff I'd be homeless and broke, no is gonna "take care" of me.

[LazyAlex]

Women have responsibilities, men have responsibilities. Men probably have less choices though because they're expected more of, for bringing money and supporting the family and what not. The question is quite vague though 😂 Women still have lots of responsibilities too, everyone does.

[ForteExe]

I'd say both men and women have responsibilities and choices, however men's choices are certainly more limited than women's. That said, women are under much higher pressure to commit to their life choices at an earlier age than men so it's hard to compare the two. I get what you're driving at but I don't think you've worded this properly to convey the question you're trying to ask.

[Anonymous]

Very complex question when considering the world that ranges everywhere from rich trust fund boys becoming presidents to poor little boys forced to become soldiers and rich women “following their passion” to travel and collect pottery or whatever to poor little girls being sold into marriage at age 12. Etc.

[XxXLuna_StarXxX]

In my opinion, they both equally have responsibilities and choices. Of course they’re adults. Adults have responsibilities and choices to live their lives. Without choices, there’d be no responsibilities and without responsibilities, there’d be no choices