Is Wage Slavery Real?

Question

#WageSlavery #WageSlave #SlaveToCapitalism Please Explain Why.

SuperTroll · Accepted Answer

I think there are people who feel trapped with no viable alternatives to improve their living conditions. Yet no one is pointing a gun at their head and forcing them to work where they work.

To conflate voluntary action with "slavery" to me is like conflating "consensual sex" for someone who isn't so happy with their partner but thinks they have no better options with "rape". I can't really agree with any narrative that would conflate voluntary exchange with "slavery" in this sense.

We don't benefit from such hyperbole if we're going to find practical solutions to a problem, especially when some of the historical attempts at an alternative have actually lead to being people forced to work under gunpoint.

As for the video, I can't help but feel that it's a bit naive if he thinks everyone can work 15 hours a week part-time and that we'd all be better off as a society. We tend to have shortages of people like doctors and those working sanitation and so on and so forth, not to mention that some of the greatest innovators who come up with advancements that improve all of our lives are often workaholics voluntarily working 80+ hours a week because they're so passionate about their jobs (thankfully for the rest of us).

OlderAndWiser · Accepted Answer

If you are in a bad economic position, that does not mean that someone is trying to take advantage to you. Viewing citizens as "victims" is a popular tactic of the left, because it engenders anger towards "The Establishment" which is identified as "the right" and that begets class envy, the precursor to class warfare.

If you are not earning enough money, maybe you are living beyond your means. Maybe you need to take advantage of the many opportunities to learn a craft or a trade in which you can earn more money. Of course, if you would rather feel like a downtrodden slave, a victim, and ask the world to feel sorry for you, that choice is yours to make. . . but a few years from now, when we check back and ask "how is that working out for you," I think we all know what the answer will be.

SueShe · Accepted Answer

You go to every single embassy or consulate from many countries and you would not believe your ears if the staff was allowed to tell you under which conditions they are enslaved.

The countries involved are not only 3rd. world but also some pretty darn Western so called civilized countries.

BrittBratt2416 · Accepted Answer

Unfortunately a lot of us are living to work, a lot of companies just see you as a number and do not care about your well being or personal life. They just want you to keep making them money no matter how stressed, depressed, underpaid, and overworked you are.

WhiteSteve · Answer

I always felt that way, and now that I’ve inherited considerable money with even more considerable inheritance coming a little down the line, I’m finding myself with a whole new perspective, and it’s even worse than I realized.

The slavery system is absolutely real. I’m now fairly high up in my company, and I get the inside track from ownership. The owner is rich as fuck, and he’s not a self-made man, his grandfather was, and he’s just a member of the Lucky Sperm Club. This guy had me moving his fucking kid out of his college apartment, AS PART OF MY SALARIED WORKDAY. The kid told me to “just supervise” the two Puerto Rican truck drivers from our company who showed up after working their full route to haul this kid’s furniture out, as if they were stupid because they speak Spanish. And what do you know, this kid is flying up the ranks with our company now, and he’s every bit of the prick you’d think he’d be. I had to look up the cost of his luxury apartment, and it turns out our owner was paying $2,200 a MONTH for this place, plus $300 a month for the parking pass! So I mean, whatever, if you can afford it, fine, I’m not trying to tell anyone how to spend their personal money. But when you can drop all that money and meanwhile those of us in your company are working 12-16 hour days routinely because we’re doing the work of what should be more people, and cutting our insurance plans back where I have to pay $200 a month more for the “best” insurance option, which used to be the middle of the road plan with the last insurer, all to save himself money. We don’t have enough trucks or truck drivers, because he doesn’t want to pay them a good rate, plus he wants to overwork the shit out of them. So we hire guys and they’re gone in a month because it sucks. And these guys all talk when they’re hanging around waiting for deliveries to be received, we have a rep for being bad to work for, so even getting people to come in for interviews is a problem for our warehouse manager. So now on top of everything else, we have to make some of our own deliveries in our personal cars because we’ll lose our accounts if we wait for the warehouse to get around to it. I’ve destroyed two cars of mine driving with like half a ton of product in my car, I doubt it’s even legal. We’re all struggling, barely getting by. Meanwhile the General Manager of the branch, my old college buddy, is working from home two days a week, just smoking weed all day, and he’s at the casino playing poker by 5:30 everyday, while I’m out here working 4 AM - midnight some days, on salary, for no extra money. The owner, he’s cutting costs every year, making our jobs so difficult to accomplish, and the company “doesn’t believe in raises, only bonuses for extraordinary work.” We just had our best picker in the warehouse leave because he got a total of 80 cents worth of raises over EIGHT YEARS WITH THE COMPANY. I haven’t seen a raise in six years, and the last two years I’ve been promised a bonus of close to $5,000, and I still have yet to see a penny of any of it. I mean, THIS IS THE SYSTEM WE’RE IN, deny it all you want. You can say “find another job”, but the very fact that we still have a staff tells you there’s not THAT MUCH better out there for us, and most can’t afford to skip the paycheck by leaving, or even be able to take time off to interview elsewhere.

So the reason I brought up my inheritance... I kind of have small-scale “fuck you” money now. If I wanted to be shortsighted, I could not work for YEARS, but I have bigger plans than just spending the money in a short time, I’m using this windfall to get OUT of this hamster wheel. But for the first time in my life, I’m in a position where I could just walk off the job at any moment and I’ll be totally fine. I may never even work for someone else again after this job, I don’t even need the reference, I can set the bridge ablaze if I want. Two months ago I was still a slave. I knew it then, but I REALLY know it now.

GFNimbuscloud · Answer

Calling it slavery is disturbing to me, because there are actual slaves in the world today, and I feel like it diminishes their situations. No, wage-slaves aren't real. Yes, there is a huge, unfair economic disparity.

The people working menial jobs are partly responsible for this. There are a variety of factors. College is expensive, and not everyone has the resources or social support system to go. A lot of people end up having kids way too early, and working two awful jobs to try and support them. Some might lack ambition, others might lack direction. There's no one thing you can really point the finger at with them, and I think it's grossly unfair to call them lazy, as some do. Still, in a world where with a bit of effort and luck it's totally possible to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, the idea that people don't want to accept any culpability is offensive to me as well.

The gulf in wealth between the classes is also partly responsible for this. Rich kids go to college. They go to good, expensive colleges. They're usually instilled with the importance of college and education as they're growing up, but even if they aren't they can afford a few extra semesters. They can also take out small loans of a million dollars from their parents, and make investments that are relatively safe and stable to someone with that kind of money. It isn't as much of a risk for them, as if they sink all of that into a failed venture, they have other resources, meaning they don't have to worry how they're going to eat or pay rent at the same time, and even if they lose everything they put in, they'll still be fine.

It's a complicated issue. I don't really like the idea of the redistribution of wealth, but when the richest 1% of the population owns more than the poorest 90% combined, something has to give.

I would start with social programs that make college free, by paying our teachers much more money, and by trying to foster a culture that shows education and knowledge in a positive light. If only because the more college graduates we have, the more skilled laborers we have, and the more skilled labor we have, the better off everyone will be.

I'll probably get trashed here for advocating handouts, but I've also briefly read about ideas involving paying people just for being a citizen. This sounds extreme to me at the moment, but as companies become more and more automated, and there are less and less menial jobs available, we're going to have to take measures to make sure people aren't just starving (or rioting, depending on how many there are) in the streets. This will probably be a much more relevant and important discussion 50-100 years from now, if and when robots are making your burgers and stocking your convenience stores, but I feel like we should be thinking about that sort of thing proactively. Eventually we might reach a point where the only jobs are skilled labor jobs, and where there are only so many of those to go around. It doesn't have to be extravagant, but I think people should be entitled to a basic quality of life.

I'm not an economist, or a sociologist, I'm not even that smart at the end of the day, but at the very least I recognize there is a problem, and that smarter, more qualified people than I need to start addressing it.

Still... The kids who die picking your cocoa beans are slaves. You've just got a shitty job.

NearlyNapping · Answer

I made it three minutes into that video and had to stop. That guy is just a lazy bum who doesn't want to work, and is rationalizing his laziness.

Of course you have to work. Duh! It's simply part of being alive.

Starting with his first statement that people don't really love their job. Of course HE won't love a job, since he's a lazy bum who doesn't want to work at all. It must suck going through life with that kind of attitude about one of the most basic things in life.

While there are still places/occupations in the world where it's only a step up from slavery, it's certainly not true in first world countries. Even in the rest of the world, people are rapidly moving up from the dredges into the fastest growing economic class in the world, which is the middle class.

I don't see how people who live in such luxury can complain about it and call it slavery. Slaves don't have the luxury of the Internet, nor the time to get on the net and complain about how terrible their life is. Just the fact that someone has the ability to make this video shows how good they have it.

Lliam · Answer

The only difference between conventional slavery and wage slavery is that wage slaves have the right to quit their job if they want to. In other words, they have a right to get another (wage slave) job or starve.

There was a time when it was easier to be self sustaining. But governments hate that because they want EVERYBODY to pay taxes, fees, licenses, etc. Today, it is illegal in many places for a person to live off the grid on land they own. Imagine that! You are not even allowed to hunt or fish without a license.

Our current system is built around the idea of constantly circulating money (and taxation). Bartering, growing your own food and producing your own energy is discouraged.

I think of coal towns in the early 20th century, for example, but there are innumerable examples. People in those regions had no choice than to work for those companies. Therefore, the companies could do whatever they wanted - hiring and firing at will, paying poverty wages, owing the company housing and store, unsafe and even deadly working conditions, having their own police (thug) force.

I advocate a system in which the workers own the company and, therefore, have a vested interest in the profits and control the wages and working conditions.

rjroy3 · Answer

Mostly psychological. It's self imposed for most people. Some are a "slave" to circumstance. Like they aren't a slave to their job, but they have to make money for a wife and 3 kids, so they can't just leave. They're a slave to the situation and can't risk just losing/dropping the job so in that sense they are a "slave". The shorthand is Salary Slave.

Tho I'd argue the most accurate way of saying it is Salary Indentured Servitude. It's temporary. Even in the case of married people with kids. If you're willing to go through hard times you can just quit your job to do something else. You can get a bus ticket today, you can get in your car today and go. There's enough social safety nets around for you to figure something else out. It's easier when you're a single person making that decision than someone who has obligation to others.

It all comes down to what you're willing to do, rather than being able. Because you definitely CAN do it. You just have to be willing to take those actions and the unintended consequences that comes along with that decision.

RegularTK421 · Answer

Disagree. Unlike in past times, people today have much more control over their own lives. Even a free family back in the medieval period spent most of it's time on farming and medial labor just to survive, while owing high taxes to their lord. There really wasn't much opportunity to advance, and you had near zero say in determining your cost of living or career choice. Today, there are so many jobs, trades, and skills out there and we have the freedom to choose what we want to do, who we work for, and how long we work for them. We can also quit anytime we want to. Slaves, serfs, soldiers, etc have historically never had that right. You did as you were directed to, or else. The people crying about wage slavery, are ultimately crying about their own self management. You determine your bills, whether you rent or own, where you live, who you marry, when or if you have children, whether or not you got to school, etc. No one is delegating these choices for you. If your life sucks, it's all on you. I don't mind working at all. I have much to show for it and I manage my money well.

EpicDweeb · Answer

Wage slavery is a myth. People have the wrong mindset when it comes to when/where/how they work. People look at minimum wage jobs as the jobs that are achievable by the average person and that should provide a minimum standard of living. In reality these ought to be looked at as entry level jobs that provide basic experience and get you used to the IDEA of a job and what a real job is going to look like. They should never be looked at as your primary source of income, rather as a stepping stone to gain experience that will make them valuable enough as employees to gain better jobs working elsewhere.

The only reason they can't get these better jobs is because they've convinced themselves it's a hopeless endeavor or because they see themselves as above their minimum wage job and so aren't willing to strive for excellence in it. It is VERY possible to grow economically and get a better job. You just have to be willing to strive for excellence in a job you hate first.

Tannhauser · Answer

"Value of labor theory" and "wage slavery" is socialist nonsense used to mislead great masses of people into supporting genocidal dictatorships and economically oppressive regimes

The truth of the matter is, western societies have evolved into an extremely flexible social-economic hierarchy that allows you to climb at will, unlike countries where clearly defined classes are sedentary or defined for life (caste system, India)

The industrial revolution has made the attainment of your basic needs easy with minimally applied effort. Now what do you want? A nice car? A new phone? A big TV? A vacation? I'm sure you do. But to get that you need to work for it.

What is wonderful about free markets is that they allow any man to become a millionaire with a large amount of effort and only a bit of luck. If you do not succeed, you have yourself to blame, not the system.

Socialism is a degenerate mindset for those with no work ethic.

_dude_ · Answer

Other. Labor is slavery only because of taxes. On a truly free market, we are free to sell our time and labor at whatever cost the market is willing to pay. Slavery are all the regulations set up by governments supposedly to "protect" you, which are in reality stopping you from improving your life by working. High and progressive taxes are making all kinds of work slavery, no matter what academic degrees you have, because if you put in more hours or try to improve yourself by education to get a higher salary, a huge chunk of your money will be stolen from you by taxes. They have tricked you into believing you can get things like health care and education for free, to motivate you into slavery.

wittymilf · Answer

Yes. I recent changed jobs for this very reason. I literally get paid half what I was earning a year ago... but my life is so much better because I’m no longer a slave. I was so exhausted and stressed and over worked.. but the money was so good. I realised I was still a slave.. a slave to the money.

dublin_sexyeyes0 · Answer

100% slavery. A good slave is one who believes he is free. Id tell people to find a document called Making Money Mechanics written by the US central bank (federal reserve). Watch a docu-movie called Zeitgeist Appendum. It will seriously open your eyes.

alice55 · Answer

For me yes it is. If you don't work you can't lie and if you don't do what your boss say you're fired and can't find a job again after. You have to do all that your boss say even if you don't want to do it like working on Sunday or doing a tons of overtime or working really late or really early (even though you said you don't want to work during those hours).

Curmudgeon · Answer

It is, but consider the source of the problem. "The entirety of your earnings are exhausted on food and shelter" - AND TAXES. Take a hard look and how much comes out of your paycheck.

Moreover, all too often shelter costs are astronomical because of local governments who discourage housing development. That too is a tax of sorts.

Jan_Classic · Answer

It's a bullcrap propaganda. You can still work the land, grow crops and cattles, have enough resources to survive even without automated tools/tractors. It's all just the madness about easy money at the cost of the others. Once the money is involved = exploiting comes with all the communists, marxists, socialists, claiming their system is totally different. While being the same sh1t.

Bananaman177 · Answer

Why is it that every single "richest guy in the world" story talks about how the guy got rich from owning businesses or investing in businesses. . . and there's never one single guy who got rich working for one?

You never open up Forbes and read about a guy who worked for a factory for 45 years and now he's a multi-millionaire. You never read about some billionaire who goes, "My secret? I clock in and I clock out, I put my hours in, you know? Do what my boss tells me."

Jackblue · Answer

The idea that working for wages was equivalent to slavery originated in Ancient Rome. In their minds real men lived off intelligence not labor. However, today wage workers are living in multi-room suburban houses (even most modern day African Americans do). So no. This is coming from a guy living in a dirty apartment in China.

ReasonCalm · Answer

Can I wake up tomorrow and go to the forrest to enjoy free clean air? No because I have to work 5 days a week. In that forrest could I kill a deer to feed myself? Nope because I need a permit. How do I get one? It cost money! OK how do I get a job. Need qualification. How do I get them? Need a job! Loophole slavery more like

Anonymous · Answer

"The only difference as compared with the old, outspoken slavery is this, that the worker of today seems to be free because he is not sold once for all, but piecemeal by the day, the week, the year, and because no one owner sells him to another, but he is forced to sell himself in this way instead, being the slave of no particular person, but of the whole property-holding class." ~ Friedrich Engels

StellarDrift · Answer

It's very real. If you live as part of the system, you're pretty much under a slave system... just just a matter of what level you're on. Even if you're debt free. Don't kid yourself. That land you have? Can be taken away.

sean1234 · Answer

Yes, of course it is. People should even need to work to make money. People shouldn't need to have money to pay for stuff, practically. At least no taxes or fees.

Hispanic-Cool-Guy · Answer

No. What you expect to sit on your butt all day and do nothing productive to earn your stuff?

It's all about being smart with money which most people aren't and little by little and with the right investment you can make more money.

NerdInDenial · Answer

The one piece that is missing is the person’s ambition. Some people are not willing to take on the risk to start their own enterprise or work smartly.

GuidoThePizzaMaker · Answer

Yeah I hate being a wagey, but you gotta start somewhere. Eventually i will own a couple rental properties and invest in my own restaurant.  Until then I will have to work for wages and long hours.

tenukitanuki · Answer

Unless you're making it for yourself and others, how are you not under a thumb?

lucas262 · Answer

I believe there is a system we live in set up to make it extremely hard to succeed i also believe its up to us in ourselves to find a way out of it to make ourselves successful.

Anonymous · Answer

No it's just a bunch of dumb useless people who have no skills upset they can't be paid the same as a doctor working at McDonald's

MarketData · Answer

The only difference between slavery and wage slavery is that slaves get free food and lodging.

Other_Tommy_Wiseau · Answer

anyone who says yes with a serious face is a fucking idiot.

Anonymous · Answer

Absolutely. Big buisness is making it so people earn less and less.

Anonymous · Answer

In Belgium we have a law stating that a person who has a job in which he has access to confidential information has no right to payment or overtime.

legalboxers · Answer

you work 9-5 Monday to Friday. for the same wage. the same time, the same routine.

Koreantransgender · Answer

Rich people enjoy all the vacations and they run business that destroy the earth and most of the people are brainwashed and blind lead blind.

KaDooKan · Answer

property tax is the true hidden "wage slave", ensuring you can never live off your land.

Anonymous · Answer

Considering how shittily Americans tend to be paid, and how high the cost of living is and how high the cost of medical care and education, yeah

No_Archons · Answer

Real because currency is rigged

ROCKS128 · Answer

Yes, especially in private sector or MNCs.

DECENTSCOTTISHLAD999 · Answer

live is a grind

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