Do you agree or not ; poor people should not procreate?

[Shutupman]

People that cannot afford basic commodities and healthcare for themselves or kids, should they be allowed to procreate?

In my opinion they should not, and in an ideal world these people would be restricted, with the use of long term birth control. There are a lot of unfit parents that cannot provide for future kids (financially and emotionally).

They should not have kids if unless they are financially established

Everyone should do whatever they want.

[curiousnorway]

I think free contraceptives would be a better solution and an option for people who doesn't want children, but there shouldn't be a law regulating it because of it would go against people's liberty, the abortion rate would increase and the biological urge to have children won't suddenly disappear. People who already abuse their own children gets sent to court and the children gets taken away. In many countries there's good social mobility, free universal healthcare and education in addition to some other welfare - so in such countries poverty won't be permanent. There's very few people in these countries that are poor their entire life, but in countries without these system poverty can easily be passed down on the next generation and be longer lasting.

I think it's smart to wait with children until you're financially stable, are married and so on, but accidents do happen and sometimes these mistakes are difficult to avoid. Your spouse may die after the impregnation has happen, you may get injured after an accident and lose your job and so on. It's even difficult to avoid procreating and pass on genetic health problems on children like ALS etc. because of knowing in advance isn't always possible.

[UnknownReflection]

I agree with you. Although no one has the right to force people to live in a certain way. Their life their choice.

But; personally i wish people could have enough common sense to understand if you can't take care yourself financially, emotionally, socially and so on, you are definitely not ready to take care of someone else, therefore, you should not have kids. That's just common sense and logic.

Still, we have no right to force people to not have children. But people need to obtain this common sense and willingly act by logic and understanding.

Children are not toys
Children are not relationship problem solvers
Children are not generational tools

Children are human beings that require education, responsibility, financial stability and emotional management and control in order to be handled and raised properly. Period.

[naijagurl]

I disagree. Although I don’t think it’s very smart to have kids unless you have a VERY clear plan as to how you will provide for them, I wouldn’t say that poor people shouldn’t be allowed to procreate. It may seem really clear cut in your head but it’s not that simple and you’re overstepping boundaries once you start making decisions that infringe on someone’s bodily autonomy. My parents came to this country poor and basically started from the bottom and things were made much harder since they’re immigrants. Despite this they still intentionally had me and my siblings (6 kids total), most of us born during the time that we weren’t financially stable at all. My parents made the decision that they wanted kids and said they would work their asses off to provide for us even given the circumstances and that’s exactly what they did and they did it so well that I didn’t even realize just how bad things were financially until they told me years later. Now we’re living very comfortable lives.

[Anonymous]

I don't know I've met well off people who shouldn't have had children. One of the kids in my preschool class back in the 1980s was left home alone the whole day. She was 4. She found dried fruit to eat. Each parent thought the other parent took her to school. He was a physicist professor and she was an accountant.

I used to be a nanny for a doctor and his wife who had worked as a nurse but became a stay at home mom except she didn't take care of her kids. I did child care for them and on some days her son went to mother's day out while I stayed with the daughter. She used to let her son when he was 2 sit and play in her car by himself in the garage. And I told his dad he might want to put the bucket of nails that were on the floor on the shelf. And she told me one time every time I put him let him play in the front lawn he runs off. They didn't have a fence.

[CoffeeWC]

They should use contraceptives. They shouldn't have kids, but that doesn't mean they can't have sex.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

I think free birth control should be available to poor people. I can't support prohibiting them from procreation, though. It goes against the core concept of individual liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I'll also point out that you imply poor people do not provide for their kids' emotional needs. That's not restricted to the lower classes and I'd say is probably more prevalent among upper class parents.

[Shutupman]

The fact one is financially unstable often stems from them having emotional/psychological issues or health issues. I definitely think poor people are less able to take care of their kids, though it’s definitely not limited to the lower class.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

Is it, though? Do you have any actual reason to think that?

[Shutupman]

If a parent can not provide their child with a constant supply of food, basic health care, clothes, a roof over their head etc that shows they aren’t capable of taking care of their kids. The fact they chose to have kids despite knowing their situation shows a lack of responsibility.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

That may be, but that answer side-stepped my question: what makes you think poor people can't provide for their children's emotional needs?

[Shutupman]

Because poor people cannot take care of their own needs let alone of a child’s. The choice they make to have children despite the bad situation they are in proves to me they are emotionally unstable and selfish. Bad qualities for a parent if you tell me.
www.humiliationstudies.org/.../...essParenting.pdf

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

Thanks for the link. I agree that low-income parents can have a reduced ability to meet their children's emotional needs. I initially thought you were saying poor people are mentally ill, but now I don't think that's what you were saying.

[Shutupman]

No not mentally ill, but wanting to have kids despite not having the financial means to do so to me is a sign of selfishness and making the wrong choices in life. Have kids when you have a home, a steady income and a bit of savings. I’m not just talking about parents that can’t afford iPhones for their kids, but basic stuff like food and medication.

[N192K001]

That depends.

In societies without or with insufficient social-security, children are the social-security, 401(k), I. R. A., etc. Also, mortality-rates can also be an issue.

Parented by drop-outs who stopped at grade 3-4 (when Japan invaded), my father was a among the lucky, who finished college, got a high-paying job, and even works/lives abroad. One sibling passed-on from cancer from spraying pesticide in fields. The rest setup their own business and seem to be thriving, from what little I've been told. Their childhood was tough, but it's balanced-out in the end.

If the kids are just created 'just becasue', negligence of post-sex responsibilities, etc. in a jurisdiction where the financial counter-measure isn't even needed, and the parents are irresponsible and mistreat the kids… then, I'd disagree.

[BCA6010]

It's incredibly irresponsible for a parent to intentionally have kids if they know they can't afford them. To that end, I agree with your statement from a ethical standpoint.

In terms of legalities, keep the government away from the family unit, and under no circumstances should you require permission from the government to have kids.

[Anonymous]

Yes they should not be allowed but Thanks To welfare the exact opposite happens the more kids you have the more free stuff you get so poor people pop out kids they can't afford to qualify from more free stuff so they can steal from the kid.

The kid becomes nothing more than an ATM they never care about causing more problems long term.

[Shutupman]

Poor people that have kids are indeed plain selfish. They don’t care about the welfare of their kids, just about what they want and need.

[nerms123]

This is a hard question. I personally think they should not have kids if they cannot afford it but I’m also against forcing and controlling people so yeah. Also rich people could have kids then go bankrupt or poor people could have kids and win the lottery so it’s hard to say.

[sawno]

I agree its not a good idea to have kids if you can't afford them, however the systemic solution is not in poor people wanting to have a family. Its the fact that life has become way to expensive. You should be able to sustain a family of 2 kids using 40 hours per week per family of work. And the fact that is no longer possible is a big problem.

[TheUniqueOne96]

I'd say no, because logic tells me that if you can't even provide for yourself or are struggling or are struggling to make ends meet, why bring a child in this world, who you may also struggle to provide for and may struggle, as a result.

The thing is though, there's probably a lot more to it than I just mentioned and probably reasons to justify having children, even if one is poor.

[GuidoThePizzaMaker]

You need to tell rich people to make more babies then, because they don't

I am considered low-middle class. And I plan on having tons of kids and gaming the system. All those rich people will be supporting my kids through taxes and programs! Mwahahaha 😂

[Shutupman]

Reason why I left my socialist country so I wouldn’t be paying for other people’s kids lol.
Now I’m not talking about people that can’t afford iPhones but straight up basic needs; food, clothes, a roof above their head etc. I certainly hope if you fit that profile you will wait till your life is more stable before having kids.

[GuidoThePizzaMaker]

Where do you live now?
The USA is socialist by the way. And I actually am able to save money because I don't waste it on material things.

I am waiting 😊

[Shutupman]

Every Western European country to a degree is socialist. But some more then others. The U. S. is a predominately capitalist country. I lived in Europe where I paid over 50% taxes. I currently live in the States, it’s no where near as socialist as my home country.

[GuidoThePizzaMaker]

You should try and tell Africa and Asia to not make more babies. Europeans have below replacement level birth rates.

[Shutupman]

That would only work if they had better education and available sex education and birth control.

[GuidoThePizzaMaker]

That's never gonna happen
The world is turning Dark demographically speaking.
In 200 years everyone is gonna be black or Indian 😂

[Shutupman]

True, but that’s not gonna be my problem.

[Anonymous]

I believe that people should only have as many children as they can afford. If you can't afford children, then don't have them. When children are brought up in a distressed home, they unnecessarily suffer, often because the parents can't control themselves. Of course, this is in general, and does not fit every situation.

[Jersey2]

It is funny in a way that the unemployed or poor have a lot of kids since there isn’t much else to do and the productive, smart, driven people are too busy or focused on building wealth that they do not have kids.

Perhaps the government should give free childcare and benefits to those that will provide better DNA for offspring. Let’s help Darwin along here.

[BrookieCookie0422]

Unfortunately this goes against ultimate liberty and freedom. But I don’t think people who can’t afford basic living should be having kids. Fortunately there aren’t a lot of people in this country that can’t afford the basics

[Anonymous]

If we're going to restrict their ability to procreate, then we need to permit abortion. People that are financially incapable of caring for a baby are among the largest number to get an abortion, specifically for that reason. Don't force them to have kids that they can't care for.

[Ámayas_20]

I couldn't morally support actually stopping them, it scares me that in your ideal world you're so tyrannical.

[Shutupman]

When you have kids it’s not about the parents anymore, it’s about the kids. Raising kids in poverty is wrong. You give these kids a bad start in life. Poverty is linked to criminality, prostitution, and most likely those kids won’t grow up to become good balanced adults. Not being able to provide a child with basic healthcare, food and clothes shows that you are someone that does not make good choices in life and that you are selfish.

[Ámayas_20]

I'm very aware what having kids means, do you actually have any? Yes raising kids in poverty can have negative consequences and trying to legally prevent people from having kids would obviously create no problems and not fuck up any kids that were born and raised secretly.

[Shutupman]

I do not have kids and do not want them because I would not make a good parent.
Providing people with long term birth control would help a lot better than handing out condoms. They could still get them taken out if they have a stable income and place to stay at.

[Ámayas_20]

That makes sense you don't understand the desire to have children, people who do will literally do anything to have them. Encouraging use of BC is of course a good idea but you're far better helping people find jobs and support themselves with or without children than trying to stop people having kids as it won't work.

[Shutupman]

Then those people that have kids and live in poverty are shit parents and don’t care about their kids. They should get their life together prior to having kids. Again a person wanting kids and having them despite not being able to take care of them is plain selfish. Not a good parenting trait.
www.humiliationstudies.org/.../...essParenting.pdf

[Ámayas_20]

You do realise having kids isn't selfish right? Most parents who can't afford basic things go without them to provide them to their children. Tbh I don't think you can possibly understand this, you have a very simple mind and don't even want kids this conversation is beyond you.

[Shutupman]

Having kids despite knowing you cannot provide for them because you wanted kids is by definition selfish. I do not need to want kids to understand what it takes to raise a kid. I think it’s a shame so many unfit parents put kids in this world out of selfish needs and fuck up their future. Go to jail and ask around about their home situation when they were growing up, it’s plain sad.

[Ámayas_20]

You do actually need to have kids or want kids to understand a large part of this, it's as basic a human desire and in many cases need as food. If you don't experience that for whatever reason (likely your own parents) you can't fully understand how stupid you sound when you talk about trying to legally prevent people from having children. It's not selfish to have a baby, it can be stupid or not thought through but no in 99% of cases it's not selfish. You only look at one side of this and form an opinion you're too simple and close minded for that side of the discussion and can't possibly begin to understand the other side, until you have a child you have no idea what it takes to raise one.

[Shutupman]

www.humiliationstudies.org/.../...essParenting.pdf

You are ignoring the facts though.
You don’t think it’s selfish of a person that is not capable of taking care of a kid to have kids? Simply because they want them, cause that is what you are saying. The want and need of having a kid despite not being able to provide for it.

Selfish : (of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

[SentientBrick]

I hope to god you never get into any political office. Your like 2 - 3 leaps of logic away from waffle stomping homeless people into wood chippers.

[Shutupman]

By providing long term birth control for poor people? Restricting their ability to procreate when they cannot even take care of themselves is not a bad thing. I think it’s sad that kids have to suffer because of selfish people.

[thegirlfromthething]

I don’t think they should procreate because of the reasons you listed, but the government shouldn’t force them to use birth control. We’d probably all be better off that way but it would infringe on their rights.

[Thatsamazing]

No they shouldn't be "restricted" somehow-- they should just be smart enough to not do it if they can't support their offspring. It's not responsible to do so.

[Luv2BRealExotic13]

I think the stupid and ignorant shouldn’t procreate and people that know damn well they can’t take care of themselves shouldn’t have children either. That’s all that’s procreating in droves.

[goaded]

Nobody who is working full time should not be able to afford to house and feed a family with one or two children. Everybody should be offered affordable contraception (and primed with fact-based sex and relationship education in school).

[LMNOP123]

Where's the no one should have kids option? We've got enough people in this damn world; we've got enough parentless kids in this world too. Let's take care of what we have now.