Is Stefan Molyneux right? Or is he right?

[Bananaman177]

For those who haven't been paying attention lately, Stefan Molyneux has been getting increasingly outspoken and controversial on Twitter. He entered the scene as an advocate of reason and moderation but it seems that society's acceleration towards destruction is lighting a fire under his butt to call out the hypocrisy and iniquity that is tearing apart the social fabric and giving free reign to the forces of evil. . . Discuss this amongst yourselves for my amusement.

Damn, he's got a point!

Point? What point?

[Soteris]

That has got to be one of the most retarded arguments that people use unironically. Butting aside the fact that women and feminists wants equality in the draft (split between either abolishing it completely or include women depending on their views on war) but lets just go over this again.

"Ladies shut up about warfare because you are not in the draft."
"Poor people shut up about high taxes because you dont pay any"
"White people shut up about racism because you are not black."

It is a fucking retarded argument. Just because one group of people are forced into something does not mean they have the exclusive right to discuss about it.

This is not to mention his complete misunderstanding about abortion clinics or abortions in general.

This is not to mention that the draft is not even a thing anymore since USA has a volunteer army.

[Bananaman177]

That is exactly what he is calling out, he's not seriously making that argument, it's obviously facetious to highlight how unfair it is to silence men about abortion, showing that it can be used to justify silencing women on other subjects. I think you and he actually agree.

[MzAsh]

It may not be fair, but it is what it is, regardless. Tell us how many things about life that is fair.

[Bananaman177]

@MzAsh Just because "life isn't fair," that doesn't give you a license to kill. How would you like it if I used that as my excuse for murdering you?

"What's wrong, officer? Haven't you ever heard, life isn't fair?"

[Soteris]

Considering he calls abortion clinics "abortion mills" I highly doubt I would get along with him not to mention he thinks men should have a say in it. Dont get me wrong there were a debate once upon a time but that debate has been settled quite decisively. Unless he can come up with a workaround for getting around basic human rights thats a non-starter.

[JayParris]

Ever noticed how everything... EVERYTHING... boils down to "I have the right to speak, and you don't"?

[Prettysammie]

They say the worst kind of grief is to lose a child. To say that mothers, wives and daughters aren’t risking anything in war is stupid. To say that civilian populations aren’t at risk in war is to ignore history. To say that the home front and the support of the home front isn’t critical is to be ignorant.

What about men who are over the draft age? Or men who aren eligible to be drafted. When was the last war in the US that the draft was used? His comment is short sighted and ridiculous. The USA has been fighting for nearly twenty years now. Thousands of male and hundreds of female military personnel have been killed since 2001. Not a single draftee.

So maybe he should sit down and shut up and honor the sacrifices of ALL members of the military and the military families that support them.

[PondyPand]

Because I suppose the daughters are only needed in the kitchens right?
And there's no point made, he's simply stating an opinion. A point is made when evidence and sources to back up his opinion is presented. All he's done is get butthurt someone called him out so jumped straight to the "all women are whores who get abortions" cliche...

[PondyPand]

By the way dude, since I saw you say "you can absolutely stop abortions" on someone else's opinion.
You don't. All you do is "stop" the safe ones. Pro-lifers are really bad at the whole "pro-life" phase.

[linds34]

This guy is a Canadian and an idiot. They haven't had conscription since 1945. How does some guys getting conscripted in 1945 give him more of a right to an opinion than me?

[Bananaman177]

How does your pain and suffering during pregnancy matter more than the pain and suffering of a little baby having it's limbs ripped off with forceps?

[MzAsh]

Heh. His narcissism mixed with his complete cluelessness, bless his heart.

[Bananaman177]

You forgot to include an argument that backs up your ad hominem attack.

It's okay to be insulting, but you need to include an argument as to why your insults are valid.

[MzAsh]

I didn’t forget.

[MzAsh]

I respond to plenty of his tweets with an argument that supports my stances.

[Bananaman177]

"I don't have to make an argument because I made one somewhere else."

Oh, okay.

*eyeroll emoji*

[MzAsh]

To this one I would say, Gentleman, you can’t give birth. Sit down when abortion and birth control is being discussed.

[MzAsh]

He says “men don’t get a say when their babies get killed through abortion.”

I replied, “oh but they try don’t they?”

[Bananaman177]

What the fuck? They try to have an opinion but the baby gets killed anyway, so how does that count for anything?

Everybody was a fetus once, and everybody can weigh in on whether their own life is worth living, so that's why everybody should have a say on abortion.

Since you finally posted an argument, even though I think it's bad, I'm removing my downvote. Because I'm so nice.

[MzAsh]

Sure men can have a say, and they do, but it should be women who have the final say.

[Bananaman177]

The baby should have the final say.

That's who gets fucking killed.

[MzAsh]

I’m going to disagree. She’s the governing body.

[Bananaman177]

Show me where your fetus gave you power of attorney, lol.

[MzAsh]

A woman is naturally born with it. Otherwise men would be able to give birth too. And it’s not like anyone can physically stop abortion. It’s just how it is.

[Bananaman177]

Well let me ask you this, what do you think of this kid?





I think that when you talk about aborting a baby, you're not considering that that baby is a real person, who is going to have a real life, grow up to be somebody, and that you're taking all that away from them.

I think you think of abortion as the same as killing a bug.

But that kid, and other abortion survivors, are kind of living proof that that isn't true, that fetuses are real people who will grow up to have a life, and a personality, and dreams and hopes.

What gives his mother the right to take that away from him?

The fact that pregnancy is unpleasant? Tough shit! So is getting mangled in the womb, I've seen video of abortions, I've seen how the babies throw their heads back and scream in agony, how they grab onto the forceps with their little hands and try to fight for their lives as the doctor is ripping them apart. It's the most vicious and cruel and brutal thing I've ever seen. They WANT to live. They are somebody. They know that their life has meaning. They FIGHT to live.

[Bananaman177]

And abortion absolutely can be stopped, make it fucking illegal and it'll stop. Close every clinic, prosecute every doctor, and prosecute the mothers who try to get one, and it'll stop. Make the penalty for abortion the same as murder and women won't think it's convenient to kill their baby, knowing that they'll spend 20 years in prison, bare minimum.

[MzAsh]

I understand the emotional aspect that some experience at the thought of abortion, but not everyone views it the same way, even when you explain it as you did. If that’s how you feel then you are free to not have an abortion, but you can’t make a grown woman not have one. I could be pregnant right now and have an abortion by noon by my own hands right at home, and no one else would be the wiser. A woman’s authority over her own pregnancy will not be undermined and the fight to stop abortion by force will be lost.

For those serious and intelligent about reducing abortion, an entirely different discussion needs to be had, but most don’t care enough to have that particular discussion and I’ll get to that in a second, they are actually interested in punishing women for their promiscuity. We see it in the hypocrisy of those who say “we’ll I’m pro life except for the case of rape.” That argument proves that in the case of rape, they are perfectly ok with the concept of abortion. Because in that case, the woman didn’t choose to open her legs.

But if she does open her legs? “Oh well now that’s a different story.” But is it? No. It’s not. It’s the same thing happening: abortion.

But if not, then

[MzAsh]

Accidentally hit post too soon... continuing...

So, for those of us who are serious about wanting to stop abortion, and NOT interested in punishing women for having sex other than for the purpose of making a baby, we need to focus on decreasing the demand for abortion.

[Bananaman177]

I don't think it's fair to say my argument is emotionally based. You could say the same about your argument, you support abortion for emotional reasons. You emotionally believe that a woman should be allowed to sentence her children to death. But since you brought up abortions in the case of rape, let me ask you this:

How can rape be wrong if abortion isn't wrong?

You're doing the exact same thing to a baby that a rapist does to their victim, you're invalidating their personal sovereignty and enforcing your will against theirs with violence.

It's the exact same principle that justifies both acts: Might makes right.

It sounds to me like your argument boils down to "might makes right," but would you also accept that justification from someone mightier than you? "Well I only raped you because no one could stop me."

That sounds exactly like what you're saying about how free and easy it is to get an abortion, "even if you don't like it, you still can't stop it, so you might as well just deal with it."

Sounds exactly like a rapist telling his victim to "just let it happen, bitch."

[MzAsh]

My argument is based on facts and fundamentals. The fact that women have the uterus and have the burden of pregnancy and men do not.

[Nachowedgie]

Who gives birth to the new human is irrelevant, it's still another human being at the end of the day. Why do you think when a pregnant woman is killed the murderer is sentenced with a crime of two murders.

[MzAsh]

Regardless, the woman is the authority and governing force until birth.

[Nachowedgie]

I see you like to ignore facts when they don't support your argument, good job snowflake

[MzAsh]

When a woman has a miscarriage, there’s no legal acknowledgment. No funeral, no death certificate (no birth certificate). If she has one child already and had a miscarriage, society in all ways considers her as only a mother one one, not two. The census doesn’t count fetuses.

[Nachowedgie]

Snowflake continues to ignore facts

[MzAsh]

I just provided you with more facts.

[Nachowedgie]

You avoided mine

[MzAsh]

I’m pointing out the inconsistency between what you mentioned and other facts about how fetuses are viewed in the eyes of the law and society.

[Celtero]

It's this lady again with the utterly arbitrary standards.

You don't even acknowledge the argument.

Women are allowed to vote for presidents and other leaders who force men overseas to die in wars they don't want to be a part of.

But men aren't allowed to object to women killing their own fetuses.

[MzAsh]

Men can object all they want, but they are not to force or coerce a woman into either birth or abortion if that’s not what they want to do in the end.

[Nachowedgie]

But it's okay that "Women are allowed to vote for presidents and other leaders who force men overseas to die in wars they don't want to be a part of"

Right?

[MzAsh]

That’s a different discussion.

[Celtero]

But women can force men to their deaths by voting for warmongers.
All good with you as long as men can't vote to keep fetuses alive.

I love when women show their true face as you do.
You love abortion, killing fetuses, preventing humans from being born.

There's this weird stereotype that women are kind and nurturing.
I welcome the death of this stereotype, as you welcome the death of millions of people who will never have a name, who will never open their eyes to see the sun radiating in the blue sky as you and every abortionist has had the privilege to.

[MzAsh]

I don’t “love” abortion. I just know that I don’t have the right to tell another woman she must give birth.

[Celtero]

Nobody is forcing birth on women.
They get pregnant from sex they wanted, usually through irresponsibility and negligence.
And you relish in the fact that since they were the ones to make it, now they get to kill it.

You and all abortionists are perverted.
Something about making a life and snuffing it out when it's weakest gratifies you, makes your mind and body happy.
You get all these stories, the woman with a self proclaimed abortion addiction, couples having a sexual fetish of getting pregnant and aborting, the abortion doctor who kept thousands of tiny corpses in his home as trophies.

It's clear that humanity has always been in love with death and violence, but you and your ilk take things to a whole other level.

[MzAsh]

I understand you don’t like it, and you aren’t required to. That’s fine. Thanks for your opinion.

[Celtero]

I understand you do like it, and I bet the thought of a fetus having it's limbs removed, skull crushed, and remains vacuumed makes you feel butterflies in your chest.

Some people think it's good to put jews into gas chambers
Some people think it's good to surgically kill unborn

We call these people "evil" and "scum" and society would be better off if they were the victims of the atrocities they advocate for others.

[MzAsh]

I guess it’s a good things you don’t get to decide that either.

[Bananaman177]

Wrong, it's a bad thing that psychopaths have free reign.

[MzAsh]

If that’s true, I’d like to just see him try and get me.

[Mexicoman101]

Uh, well. If you were to subscribe to the notion that men can’t discuss abortion because penis I think it would make perfect sense, but I do not and while I think it’s fucked up we have a sexist draft policy in the first place I believe there’s no point to telling anti-war advocates to shut up cause vagina.

There’s a general notion that I think holds some sociological truth that women would on average be more averse to going to war, which can be a curse and blessing depending on the war, but I think women like Hillary Clinton have more than demonstrated that this is something to take on a case by case basis.

[Thatsamazing]

Well... as I said on @CT_CD's post about this very same guy: Um... no, "Stefan," whoever he is, is an idiot. He is tying together two utterly different topics that have nothing to do with each other (thereby creating a Straw Man fallacy) because he presumably is a stupid person. Based on this evidence, I would say he is.

[Randomawkwardness]

When was the last time the draft was even used? Not to mention, who are we keeping at home to take care of things? If both parents are off to war, who is left? Foster parents? Oh wait, they would've both been drafted too. He seems entitled and using this and the abortion argument as a way to get more attention.

[okeydoke]

He’s factually incorrect. As of a couple of years ago all young women are registered for Selective Service in the United States. The law changed and you weren’t paying attention.

[Bananaman177]

Being registered for Selective Service is a far cry from being drafted. They only changed that law BECAUSE they knew that it would never come up, so it didn't matter.

[BrabusBoyBand]

That's not even remotely true. Have you been on the sss website? It explicitly says females aren't required to sign up for selective service

[okeydoke]

@BrabusBoyBand

www.military.com/.../...-yet-heres-whats-next.html

My mistake. I misremembered the law changing due to this court ruling. Bananaman, the Selective Service IS the draft. It just hasn't been enacted since Vietnam, which neither of us were alive for. Neither of us have been drafted, which doesn't make it impossible. But it would require a dire war that no one wants.

[okeydoke]

Anyway, I think that anyone can talk about war. And numerous women have been fighting to be a part of the draft.
But to be honest, I don't think being forced to die in a foreign country is a privilege.

[BrabusBoyBand]

Women still don't get hit with the penalties for not signing up. People willfully ignore that huge penalties that may come as result of not signing up within 30 days of turning 18. Up to 5 years imprisonment and up to 250,000 in fines. In 40/50 states you can't get a drivers license, you'll be denied federal financial aid like FASFA and most states (31) will do the same. You can't have a federal job. If you're an immigrant who doesn't sign up you can be denied citizenship. If you fail to sign up in a timely manner, even if you do in the end, you'll still be permanently penalized in some ways. You say women have been fighting to be part of the draft, yeah that's a load of horseshit. They've always been able to enroll in selective service, they just aren't forced to. They're just virtue signaling if they say women should be drafted as well because they can be they just don't HAVE to be, and their obvious lack of knowing that shows this isn't an actual issue they care about, just a talking point to make themselves look good

[okeydoke]

@BrabusBoyBand
Dude, I’m a man who comes from a military family and registered on my 28 birthday. I know. Chillax.
Did you read the article I posted? Feminist groups are fighting for mandatory registration.

[okeydoke]

18th birthday. Typo:

[BrabusBoyBand]

I did and my point is it's a tiny amount. Most of these feminists are just chatting shit

[BrabusBoyBand]

Also I like how you said groups plural as if the article mentions more than 1 group

[okeydoke]

@BrabusBoyBand
The article isn’t a conclusive list of all feminists. Nor does it claim to be.

[BrabusBoyBand]

Nor do you have evidence that there are multiple groups advocating for this

[okeydoke]

@BrabusBoyBand
As a registered man, I don’t want more people I care about forced into a hypothetical draft. Like I said, no great privilege.

[okeydoke]

@BrabusBoyBand

Stupid men make stupid arguments.
It took me two seconds to pull up two organizations on the first page of a google search.

https://now.org/?s=Women+in+Combat

https://www.servicewomen.org/

[BrabusBoyBand]

You keep saying as a registered man as if I'm not also. Also straw manning. My point is the idea of the draft isn't the only thing unfair. The penalties that come from not signing up are the current issues that women get to dodge just by having a vagina. Most of these feminists groups are just talking and do nothing. Read your own article and see who's passing this legislation. It's normally right wing men. Also big ass face palm on the sources because your slow ass clearly didn't understand the point of me saying that. It was a dig at you extrapolating

[okeydoke]

@BrabusBoyBand

Way to project. You've been explaining the draft as if I don't know anything about it. So I've affirmed that I do.
I haven't been extrapolating. And to be honest, I'm not sure why you have an ax to grind.

[BrabusBoyBand]

It's called bringing up a point dipshit. What kind of argument would I be making if I didn't bring up the penalties that women get to avoid when my ENTIRE point is that women get to dodge them? You were extrapolating, but since you don't seem to know how you were I'll assume you don't know what that word means. And are you kidding, you insinuated I was stupid, you're the one who got personal here bud. Blame yourself. But I'm done with this shit, you won't even stay on topic

[Bananaman177]

That was entirely my point, sir. It is utterly meaningless to pass a law requiring women to register for the draft when the draft itself has been outlawed.

[okeydoke]

@BrabusBoyBand

Oooo dipshit. Big man. You really showed me!

[Jimmy_Jam]

It's truths mixed with a underbelly of condescension. Truth is powerful, and not always pretty to take in, but mixing in a level of condescension makes even the most apparent truth antagonistic to those on the other end. Speak truth with power, not with scorn.

[TheFlak38]

Another coward who talks about free speech and problems in society, yet every time someone or some group of people shows to offer a solution he resorts to the same terminology as the Left using all of their silencing tactics. 10 years from now he will still be on twitter and youtube complaining about the same problems, plus all new problems without taking any real action. Like PJ Watson, like Stephen Crowder, McKiness and all those right wing cowards.

[Bananaman177]

Tell us what actions you have taken towards fixing society so we can all follow your example.

[Metallsturm]

[InfobotsMom]

Just another bullshit argument that doesn't hold water when you fully play it through. This is what constitutes political debate these days, trying to be clever with silly one upmanship using deeply flawed arguments to support a narrative. I yawn.

[NerdInDenial]

He doesn’t understand how society works: women are not held to the same level of responsibility as men. That’s just the way it is. Why even argue about it? It’s not worth living your life fighting for something that no one cares about.

[Bananaman177]

Your life, maybe.

Me personally, I like tilting at windmills. Can't think of anything I'd rather be doing.

[wankiam]

if i wanted to read the endless ramblings of a fool on twitter i would be on twitter... he needs to read the spectacle before attempting to fill the role of the voice of reason

[Kurαȷ]

"He entered the scene as an advocate of reason"

Rofl.

[EpicDweeb]

I think my point with this would be, yes women get a say in war because their children are dying. Yes men should get a say in abortion because their children are dying.

[EpicDweeb]

That being said, as things are now, no women should not get a say in war until men get a say in abortion.

[Liam_Hayden]

It's a flip of the "not uterus, not opinion on abortion" theme pushed by the Planned Parenthood eugenicists.

[thegirlfromthething]

Women’s tax dollars go towards wars too, so they should have a voice in this discussion.

[grega239]

Men's taxes go to abortions too. But have no say in it...

[thegirlfromthething]

@grega239 A voice, not decision-making capabilities. Men are free to offer their opinions about abortion just as women are free to offer their opinions about war.

[Bananaman177]

Men are not "free" to offer their opinions if they get shamed and silenced at every turn. Women' don't participate in the free and open exchange of ideas, they try to shut it down and silence dissent.

[thegirlfromthething]

They aren’t shamed or silenced in circles that share their view on abortion and not all women aren’t supportive of free speech.

[grega239]

Women kinda have decision making abilities on war and politics in general. It's called a voting right. It's a right only men have to give service for. Women have that right for free

[thegirlfromthething]

@grega239 I know, yet men, especially younger men who have the most to lose in a draft, have lower voter turnout rates than women. It’s harder to take their concern about this seriously when so many of them don’t vote to protect themselves.

[grega239]

BCS we're conditioned from birth to ignore our troubles so we're better able to fight said wars.
2. Society does seem to take issue when men voice their concerns, BCS we're born with male privilege and should therefore shut up.

[BCA6010]

He's dodging the real question which is WHY aren't women included in the selective service system now that no jobs are closed to women?

[Shamalien]

U know someone has a point when females universally hate them.

he's got more than a point

[Celtero]

He had a better one in which he explained women shouldn't have the right to vote if we used the same "no say if it's not your body" standard.

[Bluemax]

He's profoundly wrong.

That which affects every citizen should be voted upon by every citizen.

[KieranByrne]

Would share a link to the top 10 female war leaders, unfortunately G@G will not allow me!

[Bananaman177]

How can I find it?

[KieranByrne]

Google search "Top 10 female war leaders", unfortunately may not be fairly accurate; Doe give examples of who and what a 'War leader' is.

[Juxtapose]

Comparing abortion to having your son die in a war is absolutely ludicrous and immediately makes me lose interest.