What are some of your viewpoints?
Why do you think men misunderstand women so much more than women misunderstand men in reference to dating and intimacy?
What are some of your viewpoints?
Oh I disagree with that entirely. Women are convinced that men have no feelings, that men only want sex (absolutely false). To be fair men do have issues understanding women but that is because they think like men i. e. they think that looks and personality are priorities to women (they are not), they think that women experience arousal in the same way as men do (hence men sending dick picks only to find out that apparently women are not interested in that (seemed obvious to me but their seems to be a lot of guys who don't understand this). Honestly I would say for men the issue is they assume that women will be straight forward and say what they mean when in reality women almost never say what they mean (and if they do its usually too late), they presume women are visual when it comes to arousal when in reality for women its not the case (and they think that women want the phsyical gratification, that is that orgasm is the goal rather then it being the reward (basically women want the process as much as the end goal, to feel worshipped and desired (and they also respond to words and verbalizations better then visuals))), they think that women are honest about what they want i. e. that when women say they want nice guys they mean it (they don't, multiple studies show women are drawn to men who exhibit dark triad traits (Narcissism, Machevelianism, Psychopathy)), that when women say they want a guy who is "stable" that this is what it means (in reality it means she wants a man who has more money (as every study shows women prefer men with money and are highly unlikely to marry a man who makes less then her)), that when she says she wants you to listen that this is what it means (in reality what it means is she wants you to KNOW not listen, to do and act in a way that she wants without her telling you (hence the whole women wanting men to read minds. They want him to take charge without giving him any information about what they want (and then just hope that he chooses correctly). This is men's issues.
For women, their issue is simple, they read into everything because they are never straight forward they assume that men are never straight forward (Basically for men they are like an encyclopedia, what it says it what it means, for women their communication style is like a spy thriller or political intrique where every word means something completely different then what it actually means and god help you if you don't figure it out in time). Women presume that men just want sex when in reality women give so little to men as it pertains to validation and emotional connection that the only real connection we get is through sex, its the only assurance that she is still interested (because all to frequently he is giving everything and the only real material reward for doing all the work is sex. Of course men do want sex a lot but sex is necessary for their emotional connection and validation not a result of it unlike women where its the result of it not the source of it). They also don't understand male desire as they constantly presume that men want way more then they actually do, that is they are constantly convinced that men are hyper shallow and want nothing but 10s and anything less then perfection is undesirable to us (when in reality this thinking is more then likely do to the same reason that women read into everything men say, its because women are the ones who are so shallow as they have lists upon lists of criteria for men to meet, that he has to be above average height, above average in looks above average in wealth, above average in his social dominance (the "confidence" they talk about) etc. This by the way has been statistically proven as women refuse to marry down economically speaking and as one study showed women found 80% of men to be below average in looks (a statistical impossibility)). etc.
I answered this question by another user here:
Why don't men understand what women want? ↗
I think that it has mostly to do with mis-communication. Women might say they like a certain thing and men take it the wrong way. Other women will understand what she's saying while guys will still be confused as to what it really means.
I think that women are often quite vague about what they want too, when giving dating advice. It's not like most people think deeply about it so maybe they don't articulate it well, in a way that would actually help men to understand them better.
Sometimes I think that there's a difference between what attracts women deep down vs what they're taught they're supposed to like, dislike etc. Many studies for example point to the fact that women prefer dominant men. In those studies when they ask women whether they like dominant men they all say no - of course because that's not a politically correct idea. They're taught that they should be equals. Yet when the interviewers change the wording and ask about traits that have to do with dominance i. e. leadership qualities, assertiveness, confidence etc. They all respond positively. So in my opinion a lot of that is just a socially conditioned, knee-jerk negative reaction.
I think that really underneath all of that conditioning they're attracted to something different. It's the same with a lot of other things. Studies show that women prefer men who have muscular upper bodies - not huge bodybuilder types, just signs of good upper body strength. Ask most women about that and they'll say they hate muscles. It's common sense that women prefer muscular or athletic men, any guy who has gone from being skinny or fat to muscular will have seen the difference in the way women react to him, but I think they react that way because they think that's the "right answer".
This kind of thing confuses the fuck out of guys too. Women aren't actually that hard to understand if instead of asking them what they want, you take more notice of the way they behave.
I also don't think that women properly understand men either, at all.
I think you're right to a certain point. Saying women don't want men that act like men aka a having a bit of dominance and authority would probably be a lie. I guess we can't escape all of our instictual behaviour. To feel save in a relationship, both physically and emotionally is extremely important for women, at least I would say so. Stability helps in building and maintaining a family and care for kids. So women will most likely seek out men who show such traits both physically and characterwise.
Me personally, I don't need big muscles to feel attracted to a guy or feel safe. A certain physique is surely attractive indeed but it's more about the overall built than having for example extremely pumped up arms or a sixpack, like you said also.
I feel attraction towards guys with a certain proportion to their bodies. Like broad/wide shoulders thinner down the waist. Of course that can be trained via lifting as well but most guys that lift focus so much on getting specific muscles to show that aren't really important to look good. Like always, it's all about the whole package.
Of course if the guys want to train for themselves and their health not for women that's a different srory then.
You know what i like about you, EtP? I like that you actually think about these things, and you write a paragraph or more about what you are thinking. You don't just create a thesis statement, with nothing to back it up, and then want us us to expand on the idea. Many people do this, and I find it a bit odd. I'd like to know where the person's head is at. It appears that they may do this to create an impartial survey, without any leading comments, but I believe that's what polls are ideally suited to or ideal for.
This is such a complicated topic though. I read through everyone's comments, and I still don't know what to think or write. I don't have a strong feeling about this. I'm not sure I agree or believe that women understand men more than men understand women. But what I would say for sure is that there is a much higher degree of resentment and hostility from men towards women (I should say, young guys to young girls) than the other way around. I even polled and measured this, so yeah, confirmed. Men are misunderstanding women, also true. Hmm. Maybe I am agreeing with you here, the more I think about it. See, many young guys (up to about the age of 28, I'm seeing as quite consistent) are very negatively describing and labelling girls (up to about the same age), and I do think these labels and many of the descriptors and conclusions are false. And I believe though they present as anger, underneath they are about fear and resentment, from feeling judged and rejected. So in that way, yes maybe the females understand better. I am reluctant to say that "girls understand better/more" but your phrasing is that men misunderstand more, so even if I just isolate this to 'the amount of hostility that girls feel towards guys', and the specific reasons that guys get turned down when they initiate something with a girl... I know based on my qs here that some young men are misinterpreting these reasons.
Reading through the comments here, you see just what I'm (and maybe you are) talking about. There's a bunch of people who are being very reasonable, but there are a bunch who are very bitter/angry. Makes you wonder why, what have they experienced? There could be more than just bad luck or seeing or experiencing unwavering and wholly complete patterns of behaviour happening out there. I don't buy it. I've easily read hundreds, if not thousands, of comments on this site now, and I do think much of this discord is misinterpretation. Not all, by any means, and, one should not completely invalidate the experiences that people have. But as I often say, perspective and objectivity are key. (I'll just summarize that with a quick 'glass half empty' to get my point across hopefully succinctly.) Also, I see more judgement, and less acceptance out there, so also, people don't seem to be treating each other as well as they used to, or as well as they should. (Why? Holy f*** that's a big q.)
I do think women are emotionally more complex. But I do not believe, as one user here commented, that girls think men have "no feelings" or just want them for sex (ok, a lot of guys do want them just for sex, but if girls say "some do" that does not mean "all", nor does it take away from the fact that girls have to act more carefully, to prevent being just another notch post on a bed, or being saddled with a child they don't want or can't afford. "No feelings" is totally ridiculous. Saying things like that just makes me lose interest in discussing things further with them. (As well as use of the words "never" and "always". Come on. That's absolutist thinking and who's got time for that.
There are no rules in perceiving the why men and women tend to misunderstood each other; only understanding the difference how our brains are wired differently can give a conclusive explanation.
1. Men's brain are logical that they are more practical and reasonable; they'd rather focus on what's relevant and not analyze their feelings at all. They'd most definitely ignore a difficult problem and shutting down will give them time to think and process before tackling the issue. While women's on the other hand are emotional who have more interest in something related and personal. They spend more time nursing their emotions. Their heightened sensitivity gives them awareness and insights that will cloud their decisions and distract their capability to think, making it difficult for them to decide what to do next. They are most likely inclined to interpret the shutting down moments of men as avoidance to face the issue.
2. Men's brain are focused to process one task at a time. They require seclusion to get their chemistry right to arrive at a conclusion. You can't force them to talk about it when they're not ready. While women's brain can multi-task where they can talk it out to someone to process and explore their options that would help them explain things in a very complex manner.
3. Men are not good with memories. They can't remember the exact moment you two actually met or the first time you hold hands and kissed. But women's brain had bigger memory center that they will always remember everything in detail.
So in reference to dating, relationship or intimacy, we can't blame both gender in their way of handling things or understanding their differences or preferences. It's important to know why they are how they are. So if you go on a date, set aside both standards and just feel the moment. If you think you have a possibility to develop emotional connection, then up to you whether you take it or leave it. If not, no need to feel resentment towards the guy just because he isn't your usual type or he's bad news.
Men can only distinguish four colors while women can categorize all shades in details. That's how different we are. And if both gender doesn't acknowledge these facts and always stick to their prejudices and misconceptions, do not date at all.
Judging from what I have seen here on GaG I would say that many guys are prejudiced against women.
And honestly, making decisions based on something you "believe to be so, because that's what I think" and refusing to see clearly what is in front of you, doesn't do you any favours.
Of course this can apply to both genders, but I have seen only more in guys.
I am certain that things would be a lot better in the dating scene if we could all toss aside common myths and focus on the person in front of us.
Yes, there are some common behaviours, and this is the so called magnet effect. You draw what you wish for. If you are constantly thinking that a woman is trying to get your money and has no feelings then that's what you'll get.
But there are always exceptions, and if you are stubbornly clinging on your prejudices, then you will miss your exception!
Correcting typo: Of course this can apply to both genders, but I have seen IT (not only) more in guys.
Opinion
25Opinion
I think that, because you are a guy, you have a heightened awareness of all the ways in which guys get it wrong about women, but far less awareness of how women get it wrong. So, from your perspective, guys get it wrong far more than do women. And if you were a woman, you might come to the opposite conclusion. You are a biased observer of a subjective phenomenon.
Oh VERY easy:
1. Pornography and Masturbation
2. Lies from Society
3. Getting advice from unwise people [men included]
4. Breakdown in Godly Principals and Morals
5. Feminism and Humanism teachings
Its not that were misunderstood. We are PURPUSELY being IGNORED. Just like a good amount of women are purposely ignoring men. We are being grouped as all the same instead as unique individuals as men are unique people. Most advice people get today that isn't practical wisdom is nothing but biased jokes.
Very good answer. You are especially right about number 5
@btbc92
I agree, especially with 1-3, spot on.
Women are naturally more complicated biologically due to hormones and their programmed DNA that makes them picky about finding a mate. They also have a conscious and subconscious that’s often (if not always) out of synch.
They usually say they want a man who treats them well, is attentive and caring. They actually believe that when they are thinking clearly. But when they meet such a man they might like him as a person but unfortunately their hard coded DNA wiring sees him as someone who can’t protect her against wild animals or other cavemen.
Then if the exact same guy (equal money/looks) acts a bit douchey/cocky she subconsciously believes he will be a better protector. And the subconscious is stronger, it’s emotionally based and that’s were she makes mating decisions.
Guys are logical and highly visual. Our sex drives can make us stupid, sometimes violent. But women can usually read us like a book. But the men they can’t figure out ironically interest and turn them on.
Anyway to be successful with women it’s rather easy. Just do the exact opposite of everything modern feminism claims women like.
No hold on the huge difference is that man are logical that's why they will never understand women. For example your girlfriend or wife sad and you ask them what's wrong they will literally say NOTHING, and then if you say okay that's fine, all of a sudden it means we dont care. Seriously women take small things to seriously but that's what makes them unique. If you have woman that agrees with you and apologises when she's wrong leave her that's not a woman. Women don't behave like that it's not in their nature.
You’re only 17. You don’t know anything about women yet.
I'm 34
😕🤦♂️
I'm joking I am 17 but I dont need someone to tell me how complicated women are sometimes I'm not sayin men are perfect but the only women you can reason with are the ones you've married. 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
That’s hardly a joke since it’s obvious that you implied that women lack the capacity to recognize their faults and are incapable of reasoning or feeling remorse. Not every woman is the same, so don’t waste your time trying to predict their next move. Men can be complicated and invite issues into the relationship, no they aren’t perfect.. but men don’t value relationships in the same sense that women do.
I get that some women are different and dont behave like that. And you're totally right that men seek sex more than relationships, but the majority of men seek both a relationships and sex. And a few women also prefer sex than relationship. It's all just unbalanced we can really know for sure.
It's because of the gynocentric society we live in, combined with the romantic trash sold by the media and even education. In a gynocentric society men will struggle and pursue and try to figure out the best way of catering to a woman's vagina just for a chance to ejaculate in there. The media try to convince us how every woman wants a romantic sensitive man. Meanwhile in reality while every woman will tell you that this is what she wants, she is actually shit testing you and goes rather with the bad boy to get abused and ask for seconds, while the majority of men will do exactly that. Romantic bullshit with flowers and how to share their feelings and everything that actually turns a woman off. If women tomorrow decided that real men must walk on all fours like animals you would see the masses of desperate lonely men do exactly that and beg women for sex.
I feel as if it's equal. Getting into committed relationships really teach you a lot about women just as it teaches women about men. I think a constant struggle in any relationship is feeling understood. Men and women operate a lot differently, and it's a learning process that takes a lot of time and patience. You can really spot out the people who are inexperienced on this website just because of their expectations and how they actually perceive the opposite sex. It's comical because they sound so confident too lol
Men have been brainwashed into thinking that women are more complicated than they are. Couple that with the fact that women don't say what they mean or mean what they say most of the time, and it's easy to think they're confusing.
Simple facts: if you don't mean what you say, you're a liar. If you hide what you feel and insist that the other "figure it out", you're manipulative. If you pretend to be something other than what you really are, you're fake.
Stop putting up with women who are fake, manipulative liars. Stop giving in to control tactics. If a chick tries to pull any of that crap on you, cut her loose.
@AmandaYVR do you have a counter-argument, or just a side-swipe because the truth triggered you?
This idea that women not being direct, not saying exactly what they want and what they expect, or would like is a lie... is such a complete misinterpretation of how women think.
Men and women are not the same. Some people get irritated if that is said because it's so glaringly obvious (of course it is). However it needs to be stated sometimes, because there is a lack of acceptance of some of our differences. (And I mean that coming from both sexes, not just one.)
Some of us women think that sonme of you men are blunt as fuck. You could use some softening and some subtlety. When we are in a public place together, maybe a party, or across each other at a dinner table with a bunch of other people, subtlety is very very helpful, when you want to leave but you need to not offend anybody. Everything about human dynamics is complicated. You can't tell your boss what you think or him or her, right? There's a hierarchy there. The guy who's in charge earned that place, supposedly, it's not an equal democracy, so he gets to 'manage' and everyone else has to keep their trap shut, to varying degrees. Do all men get along better with each other than all women? Or the inverse? No, on both. We do things differently. Our social structures are different. And we act differently based on who we are around, the nature of that relationship. If you think all women are manipulative then you have not met all women. Sure, some suck. And some are overall nice people, who want to be appreciated, and want their SO's to be kind and treat them well (same goes for men - see, I'm not devaluing all men). And that is up to the other person to do, not for the first person to demand.
cont'd...
We all have to put up with things we don't like about each other, about the opposite sex, about our partners. Our indirectness is because, for instance, a gesture that comes *without* asking for it means more than the one that you demanded/asked for explicitly. We do not want to be demanding (many, not all). We want you to want us, and to want to do things for and with us. This is a huge part of our different methods than men. Some men say, "I don't know what the f you want from me. You're always pissed at me. Just tell me what you want." Right? But... isn't there a very high probability that if that same girl was explicit, the guy would think she has unrealistic expectations, or was demanding, or needy, etc etc. This is not an easy line to walk.
Granted, I don't know what "manipulations" you are talking about. But you didn't explain in detail. You are making mass generalizations and criticisms of an entire gender, so I am countering you. Which I probably even shouldn't, cause you made this anon and you clearly don't feel like being moderate, you just wanted to vent, so really, what's the point.
And p. s. there's a difference between being annoyed vs. 'triggered' because of some deep truth. You're an absolutist. That's what I don't like.
@AmandaYVR you pretty much made my point without realising it. Sure, you threw a few jabs in there about me generalising, which is true, but then you also said that the "idea of women not being direct, not saying exactly what they want as nd what they expect, what they would like is a lie"
But later... "Our indirectness is because, for instance, a gesture that comes *without* asking for it means more than the one that you demanded/asked for explicitly. We do not want to be demanding."
So which is it? Is it a lie? Or a perfectly defensible position? How do you start a counter-argument by calling me a liar and then turn around and defend against the very points I made? Because they're the truth, that's how. I haven't met a single woman who didn't stomp around waiting for me to figure out why she's mad. Or communicate in any meaningful way. Because those things that would be lovely for a man to do without you asking? We have some of those things ourselves, but an adult figures out pretty early that if you don't communicate, your expectations might as well be a pipe dream.
@AmandaYVR I quoted you word for word. You said it was a lie. Did you not mean what you said?
Sigh. I did not intend to call YOU a liar. My comment was regarding your comment, "if you don't mean what you say, you're a liar. If you hide what you feel and insist that the other "figure it out", you're manipulative. If you pretend to be something other than what you really are, you're fake." I think there are other reasons for not being direct, not that not being direct is inherently a lie.
@AmandaYVR but I didn't say that not being direct makes a liar. I said saying things you don't mean makes a liar. So you're statement didn't make sense in response to what I said, and I thought you were calling the idea itself a lie. Of course there are good reasons for not being bluntly direct, but that's not what I'm talking about at all.
Ok well then that in itself was a miscommunication, a misunderstanding.
Yes, when fewer words are used often more misunderstandings or misinterpreations can occur. As I did say at one point, "Granted, I don't know what "manipulations" you are talking about. But you didn't explain in detail. You are making mass generalizations and criticisms of an entire gender, so I am countering you." but it may have sent us down a wrong path.
@AmandaYVR so lets examine a common theme. Boy meets girl. They date. On the second date, he tells her plainly "look, there's something you need to know before things get serious. I'm not interested in ever getting married, and that's not going to change." She agrees, saying "after my first marriage, I never want to get married again either, so we're good."
A year later and very serious in the relationship, she starts hinting, pressuring, and shaming him in front of her friends for not wanting to get married.
She lied, because she was interested in marriage from the start. She just didn't want to say it because he wasn't emotionally invested yet and she knew he'd break it off before it ever got to this point, which amounts to being emotionally manipulative and fake. Now she's using control tactics to "convince" him to do something he doesn't want to do (more manipulation). In private, to avoid direct confrontation, she reverts back to her fake self and says she "didn't mean it that way", which is a minor form of gaslighting (your perception of what I was doing was correct, but I'm going to make you doubt your own judgment).
That's not to say that men don't use the same tactics (usually the mirror opposite), but we're on the subject of me "not understanding women at all" so...
I lost this notification and couldn't find this thread again until now, but I have returned to reply back, as I thought what you said last was interesting...
If this girl did deliberately did lie, to try and get the guy emotionally invested, then yes, I agree she was manipulative and fake.
What about possibility that this girl did actually believe what she said at the time... that she did not want marriage etc. at that time? People do change their minds sometimes. Is that possible here?
This reminds me of my cousin, actually. He's a counterculture vagabond type. Grumpy, a traveller, few responsibilities and commitments. He has shunned being tied down most/all of his life. But he's dated here and there. Met a Japanese woman. She eventually said she wanted to have his baby. He said, "Nope, not interested. I'm not going to be a father, ever." Well apparently she went ahead and got pregnant anyway, deliberatelly (I don't know the details of what form of birth control she/they were using, which matters, in my opinion, as to how much responsibility he needs to take in it - condoms are very different than the pill, etc.) So she has the kid, he wants pretty much nothing to do with it. In fact, his father also just recently found out a woman he slept with years ago had a son, and that son's teenage daughter recently went looking for the father, and found this guy on Facebook. Quite the world. But the daughter is more interested in her father having a father, than the son or the other father is. Ha.
So, yes, I am aware that this is probably the penultimate manipulation, and I am very very against women doing this. cont'd...
But... my grandparents have since passed away, and though there are 6 of us offspring to inherent some money from their estate, it is this Japanese boy who is the only one to have received a large sum of money. Because they felt so bad about my cousin's lack of responsibility ("honour") in doing "the right thing". So they spent many years having a relationship with this woman and son, as they are 50% our blood, and still my cousin has pretty much nothing to do with them. You see the long-term wide-ranging repercussions to these things? Kind of pisses me off. Big time.
But life is complicated, and each situation and dynamic is a slight variant of another. I'm being honest here, about an example of an ultimate manipulation, but still it does not mean that any one gender has a monopoly on bad behaviour. If men are more 'runners/fleers' and women are more looking for commitments, there likely will never be an end to this disparity. However at the core of it, it is less about a lie and more about the desire for the other. I propose you try and look at it this way, instead of through singularly hostile eyes.
@AmandaYVR don't assume I'm singularly hostile. I understand this sort of thing on a deeper level than most. My ex-wife pulled something similar by taking a course of antibiotics while she was on the pill, didn't say anything to me, and expected me to be none the wiser. She was pissed that I knew about antibiotics nullifying the pill, so I started insisting on condoms from that point because I didn't want kids at the time.
But back to the point... women believe themselves when they say "personality matters". What they don't WANT to realise is that her perception of his personality depends on his attractiveness. They believe they don't want to get married, but they don't want to realise that a relationship other than marriage takes work, and a marriage isn't much work for a woman. She gets to put in a lot less effort because he can't just walk away. As soon as they're married, the law is in her favor. She understands this without it ever coming to the surface of her thoughts, but marriage starts looking better and better when she finds a good man until it becomes the ultimate goal.
She's fooled by her own mask. It's not necessarily conscious deception, it's partially self-deception.
As a man (and an old fart) I can say that my own observation is that many men believe that women cannot be understood and so do not even attempt to try to understamd them. It may be because I was raised in a house full of women after my parents divorced when I was 9 that I seem to understand women a bit more than many of the men that I know. But I also have actively tried to understand women all of my adult life. I also believe that men of today don't often have good role models and are left to figure things out for themselves. Then of course there is the common belief among men that men should know these things and therefore shouldn't ask. After all, real men don't need directions. Right? LOL!
I think it’s because of how hormones work in the brain so women are generally more concerned with relationships while men are more concerned with activities but i actually think both misunderstand each other and it takes both emotional and social intelligence and effort to understand other people.
''Women are more mysterious and complex. ''
Well that's a helluva loaded question. I see plenty of confusion about the opposite gender from both sides. Most guys and girls just blunder from one relationship to another not knowing really what the fuck they 're doing
hypoagency can lead to inconsistency and contradiction.
Men aren't really expected to have things done for them. So what little they do need, they do that for themselves. There really isn't a whole lot of guesswork for guys. They just want companionship and sex.
Women feel a need for more than that. They need to feel that a man can do certain things for her. And those services can sometimes vary based on her upbringing and beliefs.
But these are gross generalizations.
The gist of it really is that men don’t want to put forth much of an effort to understand women.. it’s not that they’re unable to.. they just don’t really take enough interest in it.. Most men are in it solely for the one night stand.
The men you are attracted to are interested that. Their are if plenty of nice guys out there who would take it slow but they are too boring for you.
Actually you probably have a few of them saved in your phone contacts right now. They got friend zoned and don’t even register on your mind.
okay okay. That may (or may not) be an exaggeration. But at your age the “nice guys” have absolutely zero game. Most of them are still naive.
You are going to run guys who will do nice things for you and may seem like they just want to be friends. They don’t, but they still want to be nice you AND be more than friends.
Could you explain that double standard?
Because men think that they will never understand woman or think that they come from totally different points of view
I think women understand guys bec they know they're really not all that different
I think if both men and women were more honest with themselves and each other things would be a lot easier
Women are more mysterious and complex. We as women embrace this in order to sift through to find an exceptional man who truly understands us.
Men overestimate women, women underestimate men.
you are right ! to many men are brainwashed into thinking that we women are their slaves and we are not
Women do not understand men any more than men understand women. Whoever fed you this doesn't understand the genders themselves. Women have no idea what its like to have a dick and balls.
@Ninjazzed You can make dick jokes all you want. Just because you make a joke doesn't mean you understand it. A lot of comedy is expressing unknowing about something. No guy knows what its like to own a pussy as you should have inferred from what I wrote. Anyone who does is a moron just the same.
Because, in majority, women are more in touch with their thoughts and emotions.
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