Is there currently a War on Masculinity?

[Physics-Man]

Yes

No

Updates

+1 y

www.google.com/.../

www.amazon.com/.../ref=as_li_tl

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/06/masculinity

www.theguardian.com/.../masculinity-gender-men-sexual-assault-rape

www.thenation.com/.../do-we-need-to-redef

Updates

+1 y

www.google.com/.../

www.google.com/.../

[Anonymous]

Going to insert an extract that came up in latin class that some of the guys were really touched by:

"To possess Roman virility, was to radiate not just sexual power but “virtue, accomplishment.” He wasn’t just sexually “assertive,” “powerfully built,” and “procreative,” but intellectually and emotionally “levelheaded, vigorous yet controlled, courageous yet restrained”

The Romans made virility complex. He had to be clever, energetic, confident, politically engaged. The defining quality of virilitas was self-control. Virilitas was an ethic of moderation, strong or “vigorous” powers were kept deliberately reined in, in the manner of a standing army. If a man was too aggressive, too emotional, or too brawny—too manly—his virilitas would be lost. Therefore, giving in too often to the charms of women is effeminate. To be sexually powerful, you had to be in control of your desires."

I think at times we do feel like we're pushing against the world. With all the breaking down of identity and what 'something should be' today it's getting harder and harder for young men - and young women - to do what's natural for them. Of course this benefits and downgrades us, it's really difficult. I hope you will be able to stop feeling the pressure of the world and do what is natural to you.

[WowwGirl]

Liberals

[JimboGB]

😅😅😅

[WowwGirl]

@JimboGB 🤷

[JimboGB]

@WowwGirl I laugh because you beat me to it. "Liberals" are becoming tiresome- it's not really an attack on musicality but undermining the structures and traditions which uphold our system.

[WowwGirl]

@JimboGB it's crazy

[bamesjond0069]

Libtards

[bamesjond0069]

Toxic masculinity doesn't exist. Its a lack of masculinity. When men behave feminine as women is when they are acting up.

For example its masculine to confront someone to their face you have a problem with and solve it directly. Its feminine to not say you have a problem and just let it continue until its out of hand.

This happens with school shootings. If a male bully picks on a male peer. The correct thing is for the one being pushed around to punch the other one in the face defensively. Violence in response to violence is the appropriate masculine behavior.

The problem is this is scary for women to comprehend and so they dont "allow" it with 0 tolerance fighting rules at most schools so even the guy in the right will face suspension and punishment.

So the boys act like women and just submit to the rules and therefore also the bullying. And now you have raised either a wimp who allows people to walk all over him OR one who bottles it up until he explodes and does something ridiculous like school shooting or some other crazy behavior.

The problem is men attempting to behave as women. Not too much like men. Toxic masculinity is in fact a synonym for male femininity.

[WowwGirl]

@bamesjond0069 I thought, I smelled testosterone.

[ADFSDF1996]

Yes unfortunately there is a war being waged upon both masculine men and feminine women. SocJus is so adamant on trying to reverse the gender roles. Quite hypocritical for a movement that constantly speaks against authoritarianism.

[Barbaric]

Pointing out their hypocrisy is useless. Their arguments against authoritarianism only apply to right-wing authoritarianism. Their arguments for freedom only apply to the freedom for people to do what they want people to do. They choose their words carefully and it works to convince gullible people who can't see through their manipulative bullshit.

[ThisIsMyOpinion]

Aren't those a small group of idiots that do nothing more besides bitch on social media? Why does anyone gives value to what they say? How can they stop a man from acting manly?

[ADFSDF1996]

Thanks for most helpful opinion

[ADFSDF1996]

@ThisIsMyOpinion

It’s the political panderers who give platforms to spew their propaganda.

[MzAsh]

We really need to distinguish between healthy, positive masculinity and it’s opposite. There should absolutely be a war on the unhealthy and abusive behavior by men and how it ties to the idea of masculinity.

[G3tAClue]

I completely agree with you. I see the abusive behavior being encouraged more and more these days which a lot of guys seem to think makes them seem more manly. And the “beta male” label that they put on guys who don’t act like this, is actually the type of guy I’m more attracted to.

We need to distinguish between (like you said) positive masculinity and abusive.

[WowwGirl]

@G3tAClue yessss

[Shamalien]

I think there is a war on the positive side of masculinity too. Maybe this is a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

[007kingifrit]

or you could just refer to them as "immature" and not make it some grand quest against an overarching ideology

every valid complaint feminists seem to have at first could better be explained with "that particular guy was immature"

[MzAsh]

That’s true, and it would be important to fully explain why they are immature.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Agree 100%

And when I say that here I get accused of being a chick posing as a dude XD

[WowwGirl]

@Ad_Quid_Orator how?

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

@WowwGirl When I talk about how certain aspects of masculinity are bad other guys accused me of being a girl posing as a guy :P

[WowwGirl]

@Ad_Quid_Orator your jaw and rest of your phenotype says your not. That's crazy dude

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

@WowwGirl Well they might think I found a picture of some guy and am using it as my avatar LOL.

[WowwGirl]

@Ad_Quid_Orator people are strange

[nathanp97]

What is unhealthy about masculinity? People define what masculinity means differently, and I really don't think women should have a say, as to what is and isn't masculine. + there are lots of toxic things women do. Shoudl men start defining what these things are for women and start telling women how they should act to fix it. Lol

[MzAsh]

I’m not interested in defining for men what masculinity is about. I am interested in helping women learn what behavior and mentality that done men display should be avoided as it will have negative impact on the relationship.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

But the only men conflating masculinity with abusiveness are the men DOING the abuse. The rest of us already know its wrong, so what's to be gained by preaching to the converted?

[MzAsh]

There is a lot of bad behavior that is still being tolerated by others, so that’s a place to to start.

[BlackCatBone]

I do agree too

[Juxtapose]

"unhealthy and abusive behavior"

That's a universal "don't do" for anyone with empathy.

[WowwGirl]

@Juxtapose You wake up completely naked in a strangers bed how do you react to the situation? ↗

That's toxic not being a man

[Juxtapose]

@WowwGirl wtf was with that question?

[WowwGirl]

@Juxtapose he's a rapist
It needs seen

[WowwGirl]

He blocked men of course

[Juxtapose]

@WowwGirl Is he convicted of rape?

He at least fetishizes it openly. That's a fat yikes there, lol.

[WowwGirl]

@Juxtapose telling me

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

So what "bad behaviour" in particular do you think is tangled up with society's concept of masculinity? Growing up I was taught that a man should be true to his word and treat people with respect. So I clearly never absorbed this bad behavior mentality you allude to. I know there are men out there who act overly macho, but so long as they're not hurting anyone i pretty much leave them to their own devices

[MzAsh]

SomeGuyCalledTom, I am thankful for men who grew up and advocate for healthy masculine behavior, and it sounds like that applies to you as well. Maybe I watch too many red pill YouTube channels. These men who call themselves the manosphere are mentoring each other on how men shouldn’t take women’s “no” for an answer because they believe women largely say no to test men or to not seem slutty. This is so not the case for the most of us ladies. One guy who admits to having intermittent explosive disorder often brags about how he demands sex on demand, disallowed his girlfriend to use social media, or to go to bars or clubs, demands access to her phone so he can look through it, puts tracking on her phone and in her car, and how HE dictates what she spends. They think that’s how all men should run their relationships with women, all the while refusing to marry any of these ladies. These ladies are supposed to submit to these demands and accept that they’ll never get a ring on it. There’s a whole convention of men advocating for this kind of behavior.

[MzAsh]

They rationalize all this behavior on female “Hypergamous” nature and how men are supposed to be dominant, and I see a lot of the same toxic ideals throughout this website too. And I’m not going to stand around and watch it happen.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

I see. My issue with the manosphere guys is that the problems they describe are taken as blanket justification to treat women like shit and manipulate them. I actually agree with some aspects of their analysis of those problems. For example, hypergamy can indeed be an unspoken motivator for certain women to act out certain things, infidelity being the most notorious example. But I don't agree with what they consider the "solution" to such problems. The issue of hypergamy is a complex one, and needs to be accounted for in a proper multi-causal analysis of women's behavioural motivations. The problem is, these guys blow up the problem to make it seem like it applies to ALL women, ALL the time. But i see mo basis for such assumptions. What's more likely is that certain kinds of women are already predisposed to hypergamous behaviors (and the infidelity that follows), and so only those women are accounted for in the red pill community's analysis of "female nature". So it's a confirmation bias on their part. Women who DON'T fit into those hypergamous behavioral patterns are just discounted from the data set altogether. Or their behaviors will be dismissed on the presupposition that "oh they just haven't shown their hypergamous nature YET, but they will do so the moment it's advantageous to them". How can a woman defend herself from an accusation of a "crime" she has yet to commit, on the presumption that the crime is a predetermined event in the future? I'll always judge people on their actions, not on some flawed predictive model of what they theoretically MIGHT do in the future

[David_Kek]

@WowwGirl... do you think there should be a war on toxic femininity?

[panther0008]

These are two separate issues. Gender identity has nothing to do with femininity or masculinity.
Now, there is no “war on masculinity”. It’s naturally evolving. In the distant past - the “alpha male” was the biggest, toughest, burliest man who could kill a boar, make a fire and wrestle with the other males for potential mates and win.
Our ways have changed. Now the alphas are the guys who are intellectual tech savy billionaires. Personality wise, they’re pretty different from the old age alphas because high intellect brings with it a different set of traits. That doesn’t make the current alpha wimpy or less masculine.
Masculinity isn’t about how big your muscles are, how aggressive and confrontational you are, how well you can pose in a military uniform for a health magazine, how many kcals you’re eating today and how many power meals you ordered your girlfriend or mom to cook for you. In fact - everything about this is very not manly.
Masculinity is about being there for your loved ones, providing for your loved ones, being able to take care of yourself without relying on a woman for basic life skills, being able to resolve conflict without a fist fight, not being emotionally stunted, not being sexist etc
So, is there a war on masculinity? Well, if one’s idea of masculinity is getting drunk with the boys, getting into a fist fight at a sportsbar because x team lost, then coming home and beating the shit out of your wife because the soup is too cold, and then kicking your gay or trans son out of the house - yeah, there’s a war on that.
Otherwise no. Women still appreciate men who are dominant in a healthy way, men who can make good decisions on their own, men who are handy around the house, men who are courageous etc

[Ellie-V]

Well, the answer is no.
You can’t wage war on something you can’t even tangibly grasp. You can be mad at it. You can object the status quo and yell or make changes to your life or maybe even influence people to join your side. But the way some people view masculinity and femininity is just so bizarre.
There is a visible disdain for the way certain people choose to express themselves. If you honestly in your heart and soul feel that every person who is a guy should learn combat, become pick up artists, and shove themselves into a breadwinner box then you have some problems. No matter who you are. Same thing applies in the reverse. If you truly, like in your SOUL feel like women are meant to be docile baby making machines only good for making sandwiches and sucking dick... baby you’ve got some problems 🤷🏾‍♀️
Simple as that. Even when we are dealing with folks who are non-binary or trans.
You have got to be SO insecure, SO shallow, sad, and one dimensional that you just can’t function without ruining someone else’s day and disturbing their peace when all they wanted to do was to live fluidly.
Men have passed down some outrageously harmful AND DARE I SAY TOXIC ideologies and try to slap a label on it justifying that it’s just how men are supposed to be. Women are not and will never be exempt from this FOOLERY. Women are shit bags too.
But generally, is humans have not been on this planet very long at all. You can try to chalk it up and say we gotta fit into this box because x, y, z animals do this and that but at the end of the day we are too damn social with too much free will with too many compliments added to our brains to not take any accountability or personal autonomy when it comes to our decision making. We will evolve like all things. Ideologies will be challenged. Civilizations and empires will fall. Get the fuck over it.
There is no “war” on masculinity.
You’re just mad because the social climate changed.

[DeltaCharlieEcho]

What would a woman know about masculinity?

[Ellie-V]

@DeltaCharlieEcho Beats me, I never claimed to know everything about it. I just said the way some or we (As a collective) think of masculinity and femininity is bizarre.

[Bananaman177]

Only men and male energy are a threat to tyrants, so when you see masculinity coming under attack, that's when you know some tyrant or other is gearing up to crown themselves God Emperor for Life and slaughter anyone who disagrees.

Any men out there who don't want to be slaves, time to get yourself into fighting shape because the wheel of History is turning and the Hard Times are on their way. I'd say we have months, not years.

Nevermind the chickenheads, they're fucking worthless and besides, whichever side wins will have the pick of the litter.

[Oram52]

Well sort off, the problem becomes in defining masculinity or femininity for that matter. So the argument then becomes feminine/masculine are artificial or social constructs. Without clear parameters it becomes more challenging to debunk. However despite all that Masculinity is not under attack to the extent its portrayed to be, men simply became less masculine themselves. Sure feminism and single mothers also played a role, but so did video games and porn.

You can see this in dating, regardless, women still go for masculine men first same way men go for feminine. Even in romance novels men are portrayed Masculine, feminist romance novels made no impact because women wouldn't read them.

[SuccessfulHornDog]

Yes, Its on the list of everything currently under attack during this culture war.

The purpose is to weaken the group under attack and size power from them instead of doing it through competition.

We should make a list of everything that is under attack to get an accurate picture of what is happening and what is at stake. The is what the FBI does. They report out on all types of issues that may seem unrelated but when you see them all together you realize that there is a pattern behind them and that they might be linked

[Snakeyes7]

Toxic masculinity exists according to many people but I have to disagree. Bad people who happen to have a Y chromosome isn’t proof of toxic masculinity they just simply not masculine just as how being a bad person who happens to have two X chromosomes isn’t proof of toxic femininity.

Whether using brute strength or manipulation to ruin someone, you are engaging in neither of these characteristics nor should these characteristics be blamed for something that they are not socially constructed to represent.

[Dargil]

Yes, it is the current social trend supported by The Left: Government, schools, lawyers, mass media, Hollywood, etc. But all trends come to an end and this one is about to. There is a coming civil war in the USA (Europe is already lost) and one product of that war will be the restoration of more traditional roles for men and women. For those on the Left (blue pill) side of the argument. Enjoy the current scene while it lasts. Your Titanic is about to sink.

[Jaximus-Lion]

Oh yes! Social medias, people in the streets, The news, it's all over the place. Then you have the "ALPHA" DUM DUMS speak and everything goes from shit to more shit, it becomes the shittiest 🤣.
I just mind my business and people can say what ever they wanna say, i don't have to listen when people talk shit, am berded and I get a lot hate but it's not my problem.

[hellionthesagereborn]

Has been for quite some time. Just look at the statisics of how male children are treated, what we say about masculinity (no one talks about toxic femininity, why is that?) etc. etc. So yes, feminists started this war, the progressives carried it, and the ignorant have endorsed it.

[BeenThereLovedIt]

It's just another tool of the propaganda system to keep everyone divided. Think about it - the mass media and corporate marketing departments focus only on divisional content - Race, religion, gender, guns, crime, politics, etc... They NEED us to be fighting among ourselves, otherwise if everyone woke up to the BS and saw the real problem, a lotta lotta top 10%ers would probably be taken to the guillotines. They know this too.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

I see masculinity being attacked by the "progressive" media and by the people who play identity politics/ groupthink. But i also think any reasonable woman with her head screwed on straight will see through the media bias and misandrist ideologies, and will value the men in her family/ community/ workplace etc.

[MannMitAntworten]

If there is a war, I’m indifferent to it. I mean, I hear and see this ridiculousness and the only ones getting worked up over it are bizarre extremes that media seems to enjoy pandering too. Probably because they are the loudest. The rest of us could give two squirts of shit about this stuff. I really am all out of fucks to give. So I shall scratch the balls I still possess and carry on with my day.

[ThisAndThat]

Yes very much so, launched in the 1960's, you could argue it was during the 1940's or 1800's technically. It's a war that can't be won logically. It's a complete loss for all mankind aka humans. And it is why MGTOW exist and millions of men are now MGTOW.

[genericname85]

i wouldn't say it's a "war on masculinity" per se. i would say tha this "women in the workforce" situation is still something we have huge struggles dealing with. and i think women tend to not see why things are how they are. they just point fingers at men and don't see the bigger picture, cause that's easier.

[Bellimo]

Here definitely is.
To say there is toxic masculinity you have to consider thst there exists, toxic femininity. It is just accept under the guise of current year feminism. There is no college classes for like this for men.

Feminism today is not about equality.

[Shamalien]

I think there has been for a long time. You know what is funny though?

There is also a war on femininity, TRUE femininity, the kind most women these days wouldn't recognize if it slapped them right across the face. What we are seeing is the unholy feminine and the unholy masculine, in sacred union, just further destroying eachother day by day

[ThisIsMyOpinion]

@Shamalien I am asking this around, maybe you can answer me.
Why do you say there is a war on masculinity?
I am genuinely asking. I mean sure there are some people who go on about it being toxic but aren't those a small group of idiots that do nothing more besides bitch on social media? Why does anyone gives value to what they say? How can they stop a man from acting manly?

[purplepoppy]

No the war was over years ago. The idea you can solve an argument with another guy by having a punch up is over, you can't beat your wife for being late with dinne. and here's the news, the little guy can be right. The age of guys all trying to see who can piss the highest is over, its time learn to be civilized and not behave like animals.

[FýrdracaDócincel]

The problem with this mentality is that if two men are having it out over something, the situation itself gets ignored entirely and BOTH sides are treated as being in the wrong

[Killingmoon]

@FýrdracaDócincel that's only true In school , once you finish that horseshit system nobody gives you flack for defending yourself

[FýrdracaDócincel]

@Killingmoon
You know the law has something called "provocation," right?

If that's not getting flack for defense, I don't know what is.

[WowwGirl]

You see this?

You wake up completely naked in a strangers bed how do you react to the situation? ↗

[FrePhill]

I was reared up with masculine, bully, abusive, apathetic father, but I looked up to media personalities like Captain Kangaroo, Mister Rogers, Sesame Street male role models which is more Christlike attributes of masculine social norms than those in the world and of the world as written in Holy Bible. Hollywood still emphasizes on muscular and impulsive, naive type for male role models of masculinity.

[DocT1977]

When many of these feminists want sameness to all regards to men, I would consider that a war on masculinity. The other undesirable consequence to this is that women lose their feminine identity to be us.