Most of us are rather traditional, according to some people. We believe in two genders and generally do not support the concept of there being more than two genders.
I believe there are only two genders as well, but I still support homosexuality, and transgenderism. I think if a man feels like he will be happier as a woman, and if a woman feels like she will be happier as a man, then they should be able to change their gender.
However, some people do not transition completely and decide to stay as something between a man and a woman, that is something I do not think should be legal. If someone wants to change their gender, then they should have to transition completely, which includes hormone replacement therapy, sex reassignment surgery, and facial feminization surgery, for those transitioning from a man to a woman.
Having more than two genders or wanting to be something between a man and a woman is not psychologically healthy.
Those who were born as something between a man and a woman, I believe should have to transition to any one of the two genders, and I would support the government paying for their transition, though the government should not have to pay for the transition of someone who was born as either a man or a woman.
I should clarify that my position on this issue is not influenced by religion or conservatism, as I am neither religious nor conservative. I am a lifelong liberal, but I think that a lot of people who also identify as liberal are going too far and their actions could lead to societal collapse, which could then result in an ideological world war, and the world cannot survive another world war, since modern weaponry is too dangerous.
The concept of the there being more than two genders makes sense to me
The concept of there being more than two genders does not make sense to me
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Does the concept of having more than two genders make sense to you?
It seems to me that what most people now refer to as alternative "genders" (gender being something separate from sex) are the same as what people used to refer to as simply not conforming to traditional gender roles (gender being interchangeable with sex in this usage), such as a biological female, identifying as female, preferring mechanics to house work or a biological male, identifying as male, painting his nails. So frankly, I don't understand the insistence on altering language and attempting to separate sex and gender, rather than just identifying with your sex but not conforming to some or all of the societal expectations that follow. By that I mean, I don't think there necessarily needs to be a name for every way in which someone differs from traditional gender roles. I don't oppose it, I just think it's unnecessary.
But the one thing I do take issue with is the expectation for 99.9% of the population to permanently alter their social norms and behavior in order to cater to 0.1% of the population. It's simply more logical to assume people's gender identity matches that of their biological sex, and be corrected the 1 out of 1000 times that assumption is wrong--rather than everyone adopting the new "norm" of telling people their pronouns and/or asking for them upon introduction every time you meet someone new, just to avoid that 1 in 1000 occurrence.
The problem is: people don't understand the science or concept behind this. Sex is biological and would need transition to be changed; gender is more sociopsychological thing– if you don't feel like you don't conform to either of the sexes, you're allowed to identify as non-binary. "BUT OMG THAT'S A MENTAL ILLNESS" calm down! Most psychologists agree that the best treatment for gender dysphoria is social, physiological and psychological transition and therapy does little to no good– it's the same as gay conversion therapies. I was like that too, but my perspectives changed when I educated myself with the help of my mentor– who is a psychologist herself.
People can say "they don't believe in it" but how can you not believe in something you've never experienced or tried to listen to? At least be compassionate towards people who've experienced it? More than that, what others do or decide with their own life is none of my business as long as it's not dangerous or dysfunctional, you gotta respect that. People who say "OMG my freedom of speech" are the same ones that say the n word, blatantly deny modern societal issues because they're egocentric– which, for the context, means the inability to think outside your own little world. Ego-"I"; centric- centered around. I hope I made this clear and I'm hoping to educate someone with this. I know I'm gonna get shit from some dude explain XY and XX chromosome to me, but hey, I told in the beginning and I'm telling again: gender is more sociopsychological while sex (your XX and XY chromosomes) is biological. I also saw that someone commented about deities in pagan religions: They're representation of feminie and masculine energy; feminity is not necessarily inclined/pertained to women, masculinity is not inclined/pertained to men, they're absolutely present in equal amounts in both men and women and that balance is what keeps the world running smoothly.
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Psychologists are under enormous pressure to agree with the extreme side of the LGBT+ movement. When these concepts first became popular in the modern world, psychologists called them a mental illness. These days, no psychologist will criticize someone who has the power to take away his or her livelihood.
I think it is not as simple as minding your own business, when there's a possibility of individuals who are neither really men or women entering women's bathrooms, or other gender segregated places.
It's rather extreme to think that those who value freedom of speech are racist.
There were a lot of other things that was classified as mental illness in the past and have been declassified 🤷🏽♀️ We live in 2020 where so many things have changed and improvements have been brought into our fields. Racism and slavery, domestic violence and stripping women with human rights and all that stuff was considered to be a normal thing at the time you're talking about. No one is forced to agree with LGBTQ+ community, if anything, they're forced to listen to who are in political, religious and racial dominance. If you say something racist and it offends the people of that race... It is racist 🤷🏽♀️ free speech does not mean you can say whatever you want.
That's why non-binary people demand for separate toilets, if a person has biologically transitioned into a woman, they're a woman. Gender not being a thing doesn't stop creepy ass men into going to women's toilet at given time.
I don't know why people think they can have opinions on someone else's lives and bodies.
If a person has biologically transitioned into a woman, then I see no issue with them entering women's toilets, and I believe the description of my question does clarify this, though not specifically.
We don't agree with creepy ass men entering women's toilets, that's a failure of the implementation of rules and regulations. Nobody is interested in legalizing creepy ass men to enter women's toilets.
However, a lot of people go through hormone replacement therapy without undergoing sex reassignment surgery, such people should not be allowed in women's toilets.
Not at all! Having hormone replacement is just as valid, you're literally biologically transitioning into a woman... Not everyone can afford gender reassignment surgeries. You should read more about hormone pills, that's literally how gender reassignment works without the surgery.
I am sorry, but I don't agree with your views, and I do not believe the majority of the human population agrees with your views. If it was safe to do so, I don't believe even psychologists will agree with your views.
I am going to leave this debate with a piece of advice, you have been radicalized and the best thing you can do for yourself and others is to find your way back, goodbye.
LOL what? I'm literally backed up with science. If anything, it's you that should do the reading on how gender transition works and see that most scientists and psychologists agree with it🤷🏽♀️ There's nothing racial about these things, people thought gay rights was extreme. I really wish this phase ended soon.
I love you thank you. I believe the same thing. I'm really masculine for a chick, and I'm often told I have gender dysphoria. The change was not worth the social sacrifice for me. People treat me how I act—masculine. Doesn't make me a man though.
Yess! A lot of time, women are told to look like men "Hairy like a man" or "Built like a man", masculinity is not only for men! It's completely interchangeable in both physiological, biological and psychological aspects– masculinity and femininity are qualities that have nothing to do with men or women.
@nopeout2001 oooh shit, facts sis. if you're too accurate, be careful — the far left might just resort to name-calling, and call you a "terf" or "transphobe" 🤣
No. And I like to refer to religions for that. Many gods are given a gender, but that makes no sense, because according to those religions they don't exist in physical form. So why would their kind have genders if they have no genitals to begin with?
Genders appeared after the existence of sexes. What gender would a plant have? They are both male and female. Do you think they would have more than 1 gender if they could speak?
Can I also identify as a child if i am an adult? The term child is also to an extent a social construct. Not everyone has the same idea about what a child is, but almost all of them are based on qualities such as youth.
I think you've understood that concept wrong. In pagan beliefs, they're just symbolic and metaphorical representation of feminie and masculine energy. We all should understand that feminity is not inclined/pertained to women and masculinity is not inclined/pertained to men– it's equally distributed between both sexes and that's balance is what keeps the world running smoothly. Disturbances in feminine energy can have extreme chaotic consequences. Not everything is meant to be taken literally 🤷🏽♀️
ALSO! There's something called mental age and it's different from chronical age. Although you cannot change your chronical age, you cannot identify with your mental age, why? That's because that can have bad consequences and it is deviation from normality; but a non-binary person is harmless, even if you look from a religious pov, a lot of pagan religions did accept and even non-binary as an identity. Most psychologists agree that social and physiological transition is the best cure to gender dysphoria, therapy does little to no good– in fact, it does more harm... Like gay conversion therapy! I hope this was educative and understandable.
As a bi guy, I can say that it is an amazing feeling to have a big dick deep in you shooting a load in you. But i still love shooting a load deep into a sweet pussy.
Of course it does. Literally happens in nature 24/7 Fish, frogs etc. Simple process of Evolution and you would have to be mad not been able to see that. And in reality no Gender is just the same as saying gender-fluid shrugs. Which it makes sense that someone can be both but not really sure what it means. And one day humans will just adapt to are social evolution which will make us most likely be able to change sexually as well. Which is super far away cause evolution takes forever. But heck it kinda already happens we already have people born with both a vagina and dick lol, And while someone may call that mutation or something that's legit what evolution is. Something that maybe seen as a mutation now in so many many years could just be normal for are race. And we have already seen this happen... Gay people have become super widely accepted and there is probably more gay people today than there would of been way back in the day. Because socially when something is normal to any kind of creature we adapt to it. So more adapting to be Gender-fluid and none gender will only show that progress. Simple evolution only uneducated people in evolution wouldn't understand it.
Well. Gender is a societal construct. So it is whatever the society decides as a collective. In my native culture, there are more than two genders. English and western society have shaped most of the world and people's consideration of what is "normal." So I would focus on yourself than what other people decide to label themselves. Because honestly, it has nothing to do with you, ain't hurting you, and you should go along your day.
I've been a few post confusing genders with sex. Sex is a biological assignment of male or female. Some people are born with both working part—commonn practiceist to assign them sex at birth. There have been cases when that child grew up that they felt like the opposite sex. Which makes sense considering they were born with both sexual organs. Anywa, y sex and gender are two different things.
It’s all mental. Yes there are people that are born with a sexual organ that’s not of there gender but it’s always a female, I’ve never herd of biological male by chromosomes, being born with a vagina that can birth babies. That being said there is no such thing as more than one gender it’s mental disability. There are suffering out of confusion.
I've actually heard of a military man who found out he have women internal parts during an Xray procedure. That's when he apparently found out he was assigned male at birth. I don't know the interview was like in the 90s I think
I don't remember exactly everything. But he said he never felt like a female and his penis worked fine. But that's all I can recall. From the interview really
Nope, gender is just another way of saying sex. saying " Gender is a societal construct" just a societal construct in its self. You are either were born with a penis or vagina or a gentic mistake with both. but 98 percent of humans aren't a gentic mistake.
To people saying it's a mental illness: social and physiological transition is the best cure to gender dysphoria! Therapy does little to no good. And who are y'all to agree or disagree with other's lives and bodies?
Yes! In Hinduism and many pagan religions, we have more than 2 genders. We even worship non-binary and other identities. While sex is biological, gender is more of a sociopsychological thing.
@nopeout2001 society might have created the name gender out of communication purposes but scientifically a female and male have different amount of chromosomes which makes them a male or female. You can’t alter that at birth. Males have 1 Y chromosomes and 1x chromosomes while females have 1 Y chromosomes and 2 X chromosomes. So please explain if genetics and science say you are one way why does someone think they are another. It is no longer the body but the mind that is giving understanding of something else. Now it is society that is creating the confusion and worshiping whatever to believe a certain way.
The problem is: people don't understand the science or concept behind this. Sex is biological and would need transition to be changed; gender is more sociopsychological thing– if you don't feel like you don't conform to either of the sexes, you're allowed to identify as non-binary. "BUT OMG THAT'S A MENTAL ILLNESS" calm down! Most psychologists agree that the best treatment for gender dysphoria is social, physiological and psychological transition and therapy does little to no good– it's the same as gay conversion therapies. I was like that too, but my perspectives changed when I educated myself with the help of my mentor– who is a psychologist herself.
People can say "they don't believe in it" but how can you not believe in something you've never experienced or tried to listen to? At least be compassionate towards people who've experienced it? More than that, what others do or decide with their own life is none of my business as long as it's not dangerous or dysfunctional, you gotta respect that. People who say "OMG my freedom of speech" are the same ones that say the n word, blatantly deny modern societal issues because they're egocentric– which, for the context, means the inability to think outside your own little world. Ego-"I"; centric- centered around. I hope I made this clear and I'm hoping to educate someone with this. I know I'm gonna get shit from some dude explain XY and XX chromosome to me, but hey, I told in the beginning and I'm telling again: gender is more sociopsychological while sex (your XX and XY chromosomes) is biological. I also saw that someone commented about deities in pagan religions: They're representation of feminie and masculine energy; feminity is not necessarily inclined/pertained to women, masculinity is not inclined/pertained to men, they're absolutely present in equal amounts in both men and women and that balance is what keeps the world running smoothly.
How can there be more than two genders? There are only two genders per nature, per genetics. Male or female.
Take a woman who has a sex change into a man. Or a man who has had a sex change into a woman. One's XX (female) and the other's XY (male) no matter what hormones or how many surgeries they have.
Most "other genders" are a form of mental disorder. I work in medical and almost everyone I've encountered identifying as something other than their birth gender had an already identified mental issue (e. g. schizophrenia, bipolar, etc). Which makes sense. Body dysmorphia (e. g. hating been "fat" when you're not) is a known mental disorder all by itself. And how are these other genders any different than other body dysmorphia disorders?
Great explanation, but to “change” your gender would require manipulating your chromosomes and overall DNA, which would pretty much make you a different person. Therefore, it hasn’t even been done yet.
So legitimately no one has actually changed their gender yet.
If you have some medical condition and a doctor needs to know what medication to give you based on your gender, doc isn't going to ask you what gender you feel like being today. And by the way, gender wasn't defined as a "social construct" until they updated Webster's dictionary in the 1980's to cater to the growing population of mentally ill suffering from gender dysphoria. Gender = one of the TWO sexes. Rabbits have 2 genders, mice have 2 genders, monkeys have 2 genders, gorillas have 2 genders, humans have 2 genders. Being unhappy with your genitalia or being insane doesn't change your biology
I don’t understand it. Except in very rare cases people have either a vagina or a penis. If this is about personality or something mental, then why bother putting labels on it at all? I’m a girl but I love sports and things some people traditionally see as masculine. Can’t I just be a girl that likes things? Why does that have to have a label? Tired of people trying to find new boxes to put me in.
Not trying to trigger anyone but there are only physically two genders, anything else is just how you feel personally but it doesn't express your biology which is either female or male. Transgenders transition to one or the other and aren't their own gender. And finally pansexual can't exist because again, there are only two. If someone prefer to be called something else I respect that and do so, but I won't agree that their "gender" is real. Annddd done.
I know some people are born with two but that's an abnormality, also from what I know right now "gender" and "sexes" have gone hand and hand for forever and only recently been seperated into different categories in recent years, ma'am.
Not my culture we have always identified gender and sexes differently.. Its just a society thing. But for these type of western cultures it's just recent.
Gender identity is a response to our genetics as men and women. Testosterone and Estrogen tagged along with our entire endocrine system/ neurological system is what separates our personality differences. Not society
Np. My neighbhor is a doctor and a progressive democrat as well. We've had the topic come up, and he even says its extremely dangerous to start allowing politically correct culture dictate what the medical field deem as factual. Someone can feel however they want, but they need to understand the facts behind it. You can choose to deny the facts if you choose, but it starts becoming dangerous when you attempt to enforce this upon the medical field. Some doctors have lost their license because of the refusal to accept it. My aunt who's a teacher got in trouble for refusing to teach children this. Just overall very toxic.
Of course gender is shaped by the influence by testosterone and estrogen. Never said it was not. Many people in my culture who identity as a third gender still at times adhere to their sex of male or female.
Yea no need to worry about explaining the doctor side to me. I have many family members in the medical field and am I health. So it's always important to consult with professionals especially when it to comes into the realms of involving cultures that are not yours to reduce biases when treating your client. Yes you stick to the data and analyzing. interpreting it when further when it comes to a more qualitative approach is essential when treating your client. Environmental considerations is a huge practice when treating your client.
No it doesn’t make sense if it threatens the health & continuation of humanity as a species or destabilizes society.
The people pushing additional genders the hardest DO NOT CARE about the long term consequences. If our ancestors had the same attitude we would all be living in caves or bushes right now.
No because that’s nonsense. You’re either male, female or hermaphroditic, a mutation. There is no third gender.
What spectrum exists, however, is gender identity. That does make sense, because you can identify as whatever you want, regardless of your biological gender.
As I said, this isn’t up for discussion. I don’t care if you agree with me or not, that’s not my concern. That is why I removed your comments and why I will continue to do so.
There are only 2 genders, full stop. No matter what extra “gender” you identify as, your personality is gonna lean more towards at least one proper gender, and THAT is your (social) gender, as far as I’m concerned. I don’t see “non-binary” as valid. I’ll base their gender on their body structure, or if they insist they don’t see themselves in that manner, then the most I’d do in respect is address them as the opposite gender, none of that liberal fairytale crap
Well if someone chooses to be gender fluid that's their life. It's not affecting me and hence I don't have a say in it. When we say male and female, that's sex, which exists only in those two. Gender is a state of mind and a part of your identity and you have the freedom to choose however you wish to identify yourself. Nobody should be forced to choose one gender.
It depends on what you mean by that. As far as I am aware there are still two binary genders. Some people just identify with something other than the two binaries. Some people identify somewhere in between. And some people identify with both, or with neither. And that's okay. I don't think they're creating a new gender. They're just identifying differently in relation to the two that already exist.
I have a friend who is going through this precise thing He is transforming into a woman His a great person His transforming hasn't bothered me but I am worried for him The long process came about a minority had to be transformed back to their original gender Later realizing their mistake they asked to go through the transform again The people who are both genders should not be forced to choose a gender we don't make bi people choose Before we accuse criticise or abuse take a walk in their shoes
If they want to be nonbinary than that's them, but there will always be a man and a woman. Most people are born male or female unless you're hermaphrodite. So if the doctor asks them what's there biological sex, whatever that is male or female than they should say it. But there is no third gender or sex. Only male or female.
The entire concept of gender and sex being different things is stupid.
Aside from the fact that the term came from a really gross “study”, there really isn’t any point to it if you can just change your gender on the fly as some people make it seem. I could just identify as female (or anything else other than male) right now and nothing else will happen and just confuse everyone else who talks to me.
Yeah it’s crazy stuff. I’ve had the debate plenty of times. I personally believe that if you take someone who’s mentally ill, and enable a delusion by injecting hormones in them further ostracizing them from society, then it’s a recipe for disaster. My step cousin is trans, and is an example of this.
I'm comfortable with it, be who you are. As far as being made to transition if you are born with both, that is bullshit and a total violation of human rights. That steps in to many moral and ethical dillemas, if that were to happen would it be so different from being made to change your lighten your skin color because it doesn't fit with someones views.
Gender in itself is something we humans made up and as such why shouldn't there be more than two if people identify with it. Also I see no possible way that there being more than two genders would collapse society. Society is created by mutual support and the division of labor these things don't change just because some people like to be refered to as zir instead of him/her.
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Anonymous
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I believe the actual problem is about social attitudes rather than physical attributes. If in-between-gender traits were more accepted, people would not have to undergo surgery at all. I mentally feel in-between on most days and I hate traditional concepts of masculinity, however I have never even thought about transitioning.
