What are Republicans going to do about Trump's Big Lie?

[goaded]

From Timothy Snyder, the author of "On Tyranny".

1/10. The claim that Trump won the election is a big lie.

2/10. A big lie changes reality. To believe it, people must disbelieve their senses, distrust their fellow citizens, and live in a world of faith.

3/10. A big lie demands conspiracy thinking, since all who doubt it are seen as traitors.

4/10. A big lie undoes a society, since it divides citizens into believers and unbelievers.

5/10. A big lie destroys democracy, since people who are convinced that nothing is true but the utterances of their leader ignore voting and its results.

6/10. A big lie must bring violence, as it has.

7/10. A big lie can never be told just by one person. Trump is the originator of this big lie, but it could never have flourished without his allies on Capitol Hill.

8/10. Political futures now depend on this big lie. Senators Hawley and Cruz are running for president on the basis of this big lie.

9/10. There is a cure for the big lie. Our elected representatives should tell the truth, without dissimulation, about the results of the 2020 election.

10/10. Politicians who do not tell the simple truth perpetuate the big lie, further an alternative reality, support conspiracy theories, weaken democracy, and foment violence far worse than that of January 6, 2021.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1347212082035519489.html
@TimothyDSnyder

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_P-0I6sAck

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Oh, look, not Trump is claiming the phrase "Big Lie" to mean the 2020 election, in exactly the same way he used "Fake News".

Republicans tried to overturn a democratic election based on a lie. Not just Trump, but huge numbers of Republicans.

[Not_Average]

The Republicans don't devote their entire political ideology onto the shoulders of one individual in the same way that one Republican president doesn't represent all of our values as individuals. That's not what Republicans stand for. Biden is taking over, and Trump will no longer be apart of our political system. They really don't have to do anything at this point. Things will move forward. 90% of the what comes out of a politicians mouth is a lie. This isn't mind-breaking news. All of them are corrupt. Democrats included.

[goaded]

When is the Republican party going to tell their voters that they genuinely lost? Fair and square?

Did you not notice Ted Cruz and Hawley enthusiastically backing up Trump's lie?

[michael1469]

Well ain't that the truth... almost same gamd plan as hitler

[goaded]

And Mussolini, and Stalin.

[Agape93]

Not a damn thing. At most, they’ll just say he was entitled to his opinion, and distance themselves from him.

[gotc147]

Ah it's so amusing to watch leftists pretend to know history...

"The big lie" was originally coined by Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf, and it was NOT in reference to his own strategy to gain power, it was in reference to the Jews blaming General Eric Ludendorff for Germany's loss in WWI. So when the left keep throwing out this "big lie" line they're implicating themselves as the liars, which they are.

As for Timothy Snyder's take, how about we apply it to things like systemic racism in America, the Russia collusion hoax, "mostly peaceful protests", "kids in cages", critical race theory, "very fine people" and a long list of other false narratives that have been pushed hard by the leftist apparatus of late that caused historic damage to the country.

And leftists lose their shit over the horn guy jumping on a desk, just more false narrative.

[goaded]

Yes, Hitler's big lie was that the Jews were lying about why Germany lost WWI, and that they were behind it instead. He used that lie to turn people even more against the Jews.

Trump gleefully embraced the same tactic by declaring anything he doesn't like as "fake news", when it's anything but.

At this point, it seems reasonable to assume that right-wingers are doing whatever it is they're accusing their enemies of.

You're also three months late to the question.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth

[gotc147]

I swear an army of psychologists could make entire careers out of studying the leftist psychological condition, you folks truly are mentally defective.

Hitler said the Jews were telling a big lie, they weren't, Hitler was, so when you accuse Trump of telling a big lie, you are implicating yourself as the one lying. If you still don't understand, seek help from a mental health professional.

And it is the leftists that are lying, I mentioned a few of the more well known ones that you ignored because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Your claim of Trump lying about the 2020 election is at best a jump to conclusion. While it is true his claims were never proven, they were also never investigated. There is an investigation going on into Stacy Abrams voter registration groups in Georgia that as of this writing is ongoing and was initiated before November 3rd. Claims of her people telling out of state college students they can change their residency to Georgia, vote in Georgia elections and them switch their residency back, among others nefarious activities are being investigated. While this particular case does not involve Trump, it demonstrates that investigations take time, quite a lot of it, before evidence can be presented.

But even if you are 100% correct about Trump lying, that doesn't fit into Snyder's criteria as Trump pursued fully legal means he has every right to pursue and peacefully left office at the assigned time. Neither society nor democracy was broken or even damaged, to claim otherwise is a lie.

Now the leftist lies I mentioned, those are a much different story, but you don't want to talk about those.

[goaded]

"right-wingers are doing whatever it is they're accusing their enemies of."

"peacefully left office" Seriously?

[gotc147]

Still don't want to talk about the leftist lies I see, no surprise there.

And yes, Trump left office peacefully, this is indisputable.

[goaded]

Only because he finally had no choice. There was physical violence trying to keep him in office on January 6th.

As to what you call leftist lies, I don't think any of them are. If you like, just pick one and we'll discuss it.

[gotc147]

Great way to defeat your own narrative. If Trump had an army of people fighting to keep him in office then Congress voting, saying stuff and writing things down wasn't going to stop him from attempting to retain power. He left as he was supposed to, nobody forced him, that means the transition was peaceful.

How about we start with the Russian collusion hoax? How exactly do you figure this is not a lie?

[goaded]

Of course he left "peacefully" at the end; his side lost the battle, as well as the election. The fact that there was an attack on the Capitol based on his lies shows he wasn't willing to leave peacefully. A peaceful transition of power means the loser accepts their loss gracefully, which calms any bad feeling on their side. Trump and almost the whole Republican leadership did the opposite, and encouraged people to rise up against the true winner of the election.

"the Russian collusion hoax?"

collusion: A secret agreement for an illegal purpose; conspiracy.

Why would a political campaign pass sensitive internal documents (private internal polling and campaign strategy information) to a Russian agent, if they weren't expecting some help from that quarter?

It is not legal for a campaign to accept help or other things of value from foreign entities.

Next.

[gotc147]

There were attacks all last summer all over the country based on lies, but you're silent on those because they were in favor of your preferred politics. Those lies have opened the door to mob rule and have severely damaged our judicial system.

But again, you're okay with that because it favors your agenda. But one little riot happens that is not in your favor and it's the end of the world. Is it even possible to be more of a hypocrite?

As for passing off information to foreign entities, the Trump campaign didn't do that. If you believe they did then you believe a lie. A two year long investigation was done into this and it turned up ZERO evidence of the Trump campaign colluding with Russia.

It was big news when the Mueller report came out and said it had no evidence of collusion, yet you still believe collusion happened, why?

[goaded]

The protests last summer weren't based on lies, the murderer just got convicted on all counts, and it is not the only example of the lack of care for life by the police (US police kill 1000 people a year). They did not damaged the judicial system.

Yeah, you're still believing Barr's lies about the Mueller inquiry that were obvious at the time? (Hint: there was evidence of collusion, just not enough proof, mostly because of all the people who obstructed justice and were then pardoned or had their sentences commuted by Trump - the commutation being because pardoning Stone would have allowed people to force him to testify.)

Keep up: "A longtime associate of former President Donald Trump's 2016 campaign chief Paul Manafort gave Russian intelligence agencies "sensitive information on polling and campaign strategy" during the election that year".

"Manafort's associate, Konstantin Kilimnik, "also sought to promote the narrative that Ukraine, not Russia, had interfered in the 2016 U. S. presidential election," the department said Thursday as the Biden administration announced new sanctions on Russia, Kilimnik and others.
Those sanctions relate in part to Russia's alleged effort to affect the outcome of the 2020 U. S. presidential election."
www.cnbc.com/.../...gave-russia-election-data.html

home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy0126

[gotc147]

They very much were based on lies, Chauvin was convicted due to jury intimidation, all the facts pointed to acquittal.

I realize leftist propaganda is quite powerful but answer me this: when was the last time the left was wrong on something?

[goaded]

Did you bother listening to all the evidence, or just read what the right-wing said about what the defence said? Did you know that one of the defence witnesses, a former ME in a different state, is having all the cases he testified in re-examined because he was so unethical in his testimony about the Chauvin case?

They thought they'd win the 2016 election, not just the popular vote. Oh, and for Obama's two terms, they thought Republicans could be negotiated with in good faith, not just "vote no and take the dough".

Were the Republicans right when they said the pandemic was under control, a year ago, or when they mocked the experts for suggesting the number of deaths could reach into the hundreds of thousands? Hell, did Trump's inauguration have the largest number of people in person?

[gotc147]

I did listen to all the evidence yes, and yes I'm aware of a handful of leftist doctors who publicly spoke out agai st the defense's medical expert, that's the jury tampering I was talking about.

Bottom line of the Chauvin trial is George Floyd died of a fentynal overdose, making his death nobody's fault but his own.

As for everything else, seek a mental health professional, you're suffering from menticide.

[jakerson181]

They'll say whatever they need to say now to clean the stank off of themselves so their reputation isn't hurt and will express the appropriate amount of moral indignation even though five minutes before, they were cheering him on. Case in point Lindsey Graham. He is the worst.

[CasaNorba]

not bothered at all as the lies that from the democrats aren't even ankle level to the ones you mentioned above.

either way, democrats already got their victory (from cheating of course) so why should we bother now?

[goaded]

So, that would make you a Believer. (See #4.)

[Marriedwith2]

lies like that are exactly why they love him so much

[goaded]

But it's destroying American democracy.

[zagor]

If the GOP wants to survive they need to disassociate themselves from Trump entirely, even if it means losing a few True Believers.

[goaded]

I agree, but will they dare, and is it too late? Nearly half the party have bought into Trump's lies. If the rest of them, or even just, say, McConnell, had stood up and said he'd (even probably) lost, back in November, I can't see how that number would have been that high.

[zagor]

I saw today 100 prominent Republicans signed a document stating intent to start a new party if the GOP doesn't stop being a Trump personality cult.

[goaded]

That's all very nice, but they're all *former* Republican officials. The Republican party is no longer even GW Bush's party, which only looks reasonable in comparison.

www.reuters.com/.../

[treu88]

They're going to pretend like they're being bullied and that trump is the victim. I'm not a white supremacist so I don't really know their thought process.

[007kingifrit]

a lie is an untruth with intent to deceive. if trump believes it its not a lie

[goaded]

He doesn't believe it, and even if he does, the rest of the Republican party should be staging an intervention, not letting the country go to hell.

[007kingifrit]

we can't do that because the left didn't give the information a fair hearing in the news. so you don't really know what's going on; you can't even claim to have opinions because you don't have a balanced right wing/left wing media diet

[goaded]

Strangely, I stick to sites that report facts. Like the statements made by judges throwing out lawsuits that never alleged fraud, while the (soon to be disbarred) "lawyers" shouted about fraud everywhere outside the courtroom.

[007kingifrit]

no you don't lol

[goaded]

And I suppose you actually believe that, so it's not a lie. Why don't you show me one that does?

"Election lawsuits from President Donald Trump’s campaign do not include evidence of voter fraud, though pundits and Trump campaign members insist fraud is occurring in multiple battleground states.

...
Missing from most of the lawsuits are specific claims of fraudulent ballots or activity that Trump surrogates and the president himself have alleged in recent days."
dailycaller.com/.../

Here's a list of lawsuits brought:
www.nbcnews.com/.../trump-s-election-fight-includes-over-30-lawsuits-it-s-n1248289

[007kingifrit]

it is worth noting none of those lawsuits were heard on evidence or dismissed on evidence. but rather on standing

so the courts have never heard evidence

[goaded]

I doubt that's true for all of them (one, for example, went to a state supreme court), but it seems to be a common refrain akin to "just procedural crimes" (meaning obstruction of justice and lying to the FBI).

Which ones alleged voter fraud, and what happened to them?

[OddBeMe]

Nothing. Great book though, Snyder has a lot of articles too that delve into this.

[ItsMeItsMe1989]

All because... of russia

[goaded]

Well, I can't see any reason a campaign would give anyone else their internal polling and campaign strategy, unless it was in the hope that they'd be helped, can you?

They certainly wouldn't have handed it over if they thought the information might go to the Democratic party campaign.

[ItsMeItsMe1989]

Russia is our enemy

[SpiderManFan2002]

Ignore it

[goaded]

I hope not, otherwise the American experiment is doomed.