Does Toxic Masculinity really exist? What is Toxic Masculinity?

Question

Recently there was a question about how to curve Toxic Masculinity and my opinion got quite a bit of dislikes.

You can't say that my opinion is completely wrong, assholes do come in all forms. I've always thought that Toxic Masculinity was a made-up term from Twitter SJWs, but it seems that people actually see Toxic Masculinity as an actual issue. I don't know what Toxic Masculinity really is since there are too many definitions for it. Let's have an open discussion, anonymity is turned on, and I will not call anyone any names. Maybe some of you can open my mind a little about this.

Toxic Masculinity Does Exist

Toxic Masculinity Does Not Exist

Select age and gender to cast your vote:

GirlGuy

Answer 1

btbc92 | 670 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Master

It does exist. And I can safely give such examples besides the video I found that actually speaks one's thoughts! But I want to point out it is MORE than just repressed emotions or inability to handle it appropriately and healthier, but the concept of what a man is in the minds of men and even some women as opposed to what God called a man. Even with that, most today do not understand this. You can think sin nature and lies about how to carry oneself by the system for that. Also as a bonus, understand that there is such thing as TOXIC femininity also. Not just by my own personal experiences, but by reading, listening, and witnessing that of others. Seriously, I need to make a MyTake. This is a long long READ. Please read everything before commenting or trying to debate!!! Gentlemen, especially I WANT TO MAKE THIS VERY CLEAR TO YOU! Do not be afraid to CHANGE! I will also address the still of the user who said about the men who are naturally a*holes. We'll get there. But I don't want to cause confusion. I want to address this first.

1. It is a form of abuse stemming from people who want systematic control. Think of Pharisees and Sadducees, the mentality of Xerxes when he had Vashti before Esther and how she was treated, The mentality of many religions such as Islam, Asian countries, middle ages in general. Greek and Roman standards Egyptian, etc.

2. Toxic masculinity is a form of bullying, control, abuse, social conditioning, fearmongering, and repression. Let's look @ how this affects a man, then the females (As this applies to all stages of a woman, child, teen, adult, senior, even female dogs/animals (not B's, actual animals).

2a: Men are taught to be aggressive, tough, and show no emotions. Taught not to cry, etc. Sadly, we women who are taught of these are also GUILTY! There are some personality types, if you go by MBTI, like INFP, INFJ, ISFP, ESFP, INTP to some degree, even some you wouldn't think ISTP, ESTJ, ISTJ, ENFP, etc are emotionally SENSITIVE! I have "heard and seen" some women, especially with no healthy father figure are very aggressive with their boys and shame them from crying, leave them to walk on their own as toddlers, sometimes curse at their kids in frustration! Men of course also do that and used to do that. But women now are even WORSE! I was treated like that as a little girl by my own father. And it hurt! My dogs get the same treatment! Calling my girl dog his "b*itch"? Her brother a "p*ssy"? "punk"? This is not only abusive but UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR! No matter who does it. Any female that finds this okay is not a woman, but a female who is masculine. Period. Women don't do this. It is LEARNED by environmental factors and conditioning.

2b: Men are conditioned to treat women as LESS. If she speaks out of turn, his response is either slap her, curse at her, or demean her. Say she is a nag and how he wants to be left alone or how she is disrespectful. She is not treated as an equal, she is seen as a child and even LESS. If she expresses herself, the response is: she is "too emotional" and you ignore her because she isn't "rational" right now. If she is too quiet, then she is either giving him the silent treatment or seen as disrespectful because she won't answer. Guess who emulates the behavior now? The women, now! How a man treats her, or even what she sees with her own mother, and her mother does the same, she will shape that as her IDENTITY, and do that to OTHER WOMEN. Even her own daughter. Or vice versa, her own mother. It's ABUSE. I'm now learning and seeing this for myself. It's WRONG and it's TOXIC. A woman is under a man's CARE. But she should not be treated as LESS. This was considered MANLY we are not talking about men who are NATURALLY A*holes. Even they would have been disciplined by the utilitarian. You have to study this. Both sociology, psychology, philosophy, etc. It is ALL CONNECTED.

btbc92

1 mo
2b cont.: What this teaches us as babies, girls, teens, young adults, etc is that men see us as less. Unable to do anything without them, any help they offer comes with something in exchange. Women are not just property (in a bad way), we're seen as having 0 rights. A man wants sex, you either have it, or your toss out in the street forced to be a beggar or a PROSTITUTE. If you were NOT a virgin, you were seen as used up or unwanted. Back in the middle ages, girls who were raped could NOT get married. No one would take her. Any guy who did will lose his reputation, benefits, jobs, and maybe citizenship. This is TOXIC MASCULINITY. If you watch a few scenes from Outlander, that is a good example of how lustful men were, men got raped by other men, women were raped by their husbands, beaten, and even tortured in public, blood spilled and all. It's demonic. That's how demons torture souls who went to hell and did lustful things in this life I was hearing of those who went there. And you couldn't die. It is that serious. All that crap your learning from pornography and erotic material is that. That's where you're learning it from. And the women and girls exposed to that assume it NORMAL. And it's not. It's presented as that when it's not. You emulate what you SEE and you do that in real life. Now everybody is doing what you're exposed to. The younger gen doesn't KNOW any BETTER now. How then can we protect our children and teens from being sexualized now? We can't. You have people teaching babies about perverse sex. This is from the men, not women entirely on their own. The woman got this from the men she slept with or exposed to.
btbc92

1 mo
2c: Bullying is done by fathers and also mothers who believe this from her own home upbringing. A woman who has a father who does this is 2x as likely to be married off to a man similar or just like her father. Any guy who is not like the father would be written off and cannot marry the daughter, even if he was rich and well off. They will marry them to men who CONTROL THEM. Look at Shakespeare. A midsummer night's dream with Hermia. She is forced and given a choice of Nunnery, Marriage to Lysander or DEATH. She has 0 RIGHTS! This is toxic masculinity. You have a man who wants to love her whom she chooses, and is forced to marry a guy who obviously doesn't LOVE HER, but LUSTS and the father APPROVES! Don't you men get it? This is the source or at least 2nd source of the toxicity! The who convo is all about SEX. And if she doesn't please him sexually she's done either way. That's why she rather have died. They are so desperate for her to have sex and be useful sexually, her own father gives her "time to think it over". Hmm, but it doesn't exist. Okay.

Society: Marry your potential rapist, go to a nunnery or (celibacy back then) where you will forever die a virgin and be the scorn of society or die an honorable death as your useless. (Do you know most fathers would rather have a son over a daughter?)

Toxic masculinity: Well society says I need sex with you 6x times a day even if you say no, and I CAN DO WHATEVER, WHENEVER, HOWEVER, and you need to like it. Do the cooking, have kids, and the cleaning, be silent around other men (that includes other male children), do not even speak, be in the woman's quarters until the guess is gone. If your libido runs dry and hits menopause, if permitted I can take on a much youthful and younger bride (13+). How SICK is THIS!!! But God permits it out of the hardness of your HEARTS. So there you GO. And guess what? You're STILL unhappy in the 21st century.

This is a joke. I'm a virgin, never bothered with a man. So I know.
btbc92

1 mo
2d: Abuse. Inline with C, sexual abuse is seen as NORMAL. In their eyes, there was no such thing as ABUSE. Even young boys get abused. This is why we are seeing SO MANY CASES of Pastoral abuse in the Catholic and Christian churches. So many boys in the 100k's reporting RAPE. That includes gentlemen, Boy scouts. Olympics. This is all stemming from toxic masculinity. It is eons time. Something that God said NOT to DO. Other nations who worshiped pagan gods did just that and it spread to God's people. The Egyptians did it WORSE. All of that treatment of slavery etc got into the 12 tribes as WELL. Do your HISTORY people! That's why God had to have the older generations die out because of their sin. And he had to divorce Isreal twice. Because of Idolatry, Spiritual adultery, and fornication, and the whoredoms. When the Greeks and Romans came in, made it worse. Even during the times of Kings and judges expresses this. This is toxic masculinity. Where Deborah, had to be appointed as a judge because the others did worse. She wasn't perfect and had her own that she had to answer for, but if it came to a point a woman had to be in charge for the while, that says something. Look at politics? Toxic masculinity all there. Men disrespecting other men. Men disrespecting women. Men being sexist. Women disrespecting other women now. That is the effect of it. And you call this MANLY.

So now let's look at the male users you got up there with their comment: " "Toxic Masculinity" is a myth, there is only assholes being assholes, and assholes come in all genders, colors, religion, etc." Here is the problem. He is DEFLECTING the issue. The issue is men PERIOD. We are NOT talking about the loud minority. We are talking about MEN as a WHOLE. First, we need to define what is a MAN:
Show All Show Less
btbc92

1 mo
Genetically and Physically:
1. A man is born with a penis, testicles, the ability to make millions of sperm, ejaculate, have XY chromosomes, and is heterogametic as determined by both his sex and gender.
2. He has the ability to be stronger than a woman (normally and naturally as cases vary), ability to grow a beard, maybe thin, bulk, stalky, wide, have muscle, little to none. Hair is usually short, but can grow long. Have smoother hair than women especially straight. Can have straight, curly, coily, kinky hair just as women. How it's kept is up the man, hair texture, and length. Can grow a mustache, tend to be smellier than women. Produce more physically.
3. Personality varies as do women. If going by again, MBTI, they have the same characters but social, cultural, and gender expectations are DIFFERENT. (I'll get into that afterward)
btbc92

1 mo
What is EXPECTED of a man and when does somebody become a MAN?: (Most cultures, belief system, faith, religions, etc defines this as):

1. A man who is well aware of who is HE. Not what somebody else tells him.
2. Somebody who is comfortable with his masculinity: he is able to cry, express himself, respect others, won't attack people for no reason, have his own interest besides care for the interest of OTHERS. Somebody whom everybody can RESPECT. A good reputation, and carries himself as expected.
btbc92

1 mo
3. A provider:

Boyhood- (ancient times to 3rd world countries) Learning how to hunt, Cook in the wild, developing counting skills with money/source of money, developing the right mindset and attitude, discipline and fortitude. Learning how to address elders, women, and those below you. Boys had to become literate especially of higher status. Boys were taught a CRAFT: Woodworking, Carpentry, Knighthood, Politics, Weapons dealer or Blacksmiths, Barbor, Educator, Scribe (somebody who transcribes works, messages, letters or decrees, etc), Medical Doctors, anything considers man dominated industries.
Manhood - Rite of passage meant either prove of manhood by survival out in the wilderness, hunting for an animal's head, or other rites that may include rituals, ceremonies, and usually a woman's hand in marriage. If he didn't survive he was honored. If he ran, he was a coward and be branded either a trader or outcast. For other traditions like the Jewish people you have Barmitvas'. A young boy becomes a man at 13. Back then he can take on a wife when he has stability.
Adulthood - A person between a certain age even at 8/12 usually 13-14 on up who can own his own things: A home, land, horse, animals, title, career, job, MONEY. ($$$)
btbc92

1 mo
A Leader: Leadership positions, Heros, Military men. In today's world: You can view a CEO, boss, manager, anything that holds status can be seen as a leader. Even followership can be leadership. Volunteering, Hospitality, so much gentleman.

But here is the toxic masculinity: PRIDE, EGO, VANITY. These are negative traits. For a woman, it's toxic femininity. It's still toxic. Women. A man with no "pride" in this world is not a man. That is not how God defines a man. See the difference? Men are taught CONFLICTING Messages.

The world asks you: Men, where is your PRIDE?
Yet. The word of God says: Pride comes before the what: FALL.
Look at many haughty world leaders? Their kingdoms fell, and they died along with it. They're ways lost to time forever unless somebody tries to bring it back. It will fall the same way as they did.
btbc92

1 mo
My bad Marriage to Demetrius*
kingofthellamas

1 mo
TLDR
btbc92

1 mo
@kingofthellamas I don't care. You're showing what you hate is being the truth about yourself. Troll elsehwere.
kingofthellamas

1 mo
Thanks for the love. Will do.
iAMtheT0ASTER

1 mo
I've managed to read it all and I have to agree with most of it. You're willing to look at the negative traits of both sides and not be biased. The most abysmal traits of toxic masculinity are products of the past and most of those traits aren't in effect today, but a lot are in certain cultures. I like how you explained that it's mostly how men are raised as boys and how they're taught to repress themselves and to be "tough". The only parts I disagree with is you say that men are taught to hit and abuse their women. Most boys are told to never hit a girl, and when men do hit women people are quick to run to her aid even if she's in the wrong. You also say that men see rape as normal. Unfortunately in some cultures, it's been normalized, I can only speak for America and I don't see it normalized here. Rape in America is seen as one of the worst crimes a man can commit and even murderers in prison hate them.
HiveBee

1 mo
You wrote out the definition of a man. But I think that definition is exactly where the idea of toxic masculinity is rooted.

You're saying a man is a provider or a leader or whatever, whether positive or not, just because he embodies a variety of positive traits does not mean that it is a good thing for men.

To say that a man MUST be anything in my opinion is the root of toxic masculinity.

As soon as you define what a man is, you create toxic masculinity.

Pidgeonholing men into some pre determined role is wrong. Pidgeonholing women into a pre determined role is wrong.

As soon as you take away a person's personal freedom of thought, you have damaged that person in my opinion.

I dont know that anyone would agree with what I'm saying. But I think it's wrong to define what a man is period.
iAMtheT0ASTER

1 mo
Also, the guy in the screenshot is me. I wasn't really deflecting the issue, I just brushed it off because I hear a lot of crazy things like there being 52 genders, all white men are nazis, things that most people don't actually believe and I just thought that toxic masculinity was one of those made up BS.
HiveBee

1 mo
A human being however, whether Male or female in my opinion is a conscious being who has their own life to live.

To live ones life is the purpose of that person's life. And to live a good life, a person must have values.

The values a person has are developed over time and are created through their life and learning along the way.

A person obtains the values they wish to integrate into their life, through virtue.

Virtue is an action or series of actions or principles which a person acts out in order to obtain the values they desire.
HiveBee

1 mo
In that sense, men and women are exactly the same. Both genders must determine their own values and take upon themselves virtues to obtain said values. Obtaining said values leads to the well being of an individual.

Men and women may choose different values. That is true. But I do not believe that it is up to society to tell a person what they should value and how they should act.

Well that's how I see it anyways. I think people should be free of society's expectations, and create their own values.

Its toxic for society to impose upon you what you should do. You can only choose for yourself.

Well I know probably nobody agrees with me least of not you lol.

It's nice to say that a man should be all these nice wonderous things. Positive masculinity still leads to pressure on a man to be something that takes a lifetime of work to become.

That pressure spawns toxic masculinity in my opinion. It creates resentment and anger. People think toxic masculinity is the obviously bad parts. Violence and disrespect. I think violence and disrespect are actually a. product of the attempt to force men to be strong leaders who are always virtuous in the chsristian religious "altruistic" sense. To be a "good" man is not just some easy thing to do. It's hard to be "good" beneath the weight of the world on your shoulders. Taught you must carry everything and be the big strong manly leader who is a shining beacon of leadership that others can follow, like jesus. Not every man can be jesus. And expecting all men to become jesus I think is more harmful that anything else.
btbc92

1 mo
@HiveBee Toxic masculinity is not rooted in that. It is rooted in sin. If you read the Bible God said for men to take care of their wives, and wives to honor their husbands and to submit him. We are to submit to each other in love. People do not know how to do that today. And yes, that is very much alive today in the modern world. It is done in private more than just in public. As another have said. Bravado is what is shown, but it is still 25% of toxic masculinity. Look at fictional characters like Link from Zelda, some from other similar games and animes, Aragon, and a whole list. Men were not like that and anybody who was was shamed and corrected.
btbc92

1 mo
@iAMtheT0ASTER Oh trust me. They were taught that. And my father who was abused and did the abusing can say that he learned that. And others around have too. Especially back in the 1920s. My grandma saw that by her father hitting or snatching things from her mother. It is learned behavior. Like I was told if I get hit, hit others back. I never hit back because I WOULD have been suspended or put in juvi for what? Defending myself from bullies? Sadly I would come home and get the belt myself for not doing so. If in a fight I never started, I still get punished. It is a very much learned behavior. Belt spanking is very much passed on capital punishment abuse and many will use the Bible to promote it when it's wrong. God never said to abuse others. That's where they get it from. They learned this behavior back then. That is where they got it. But it is ill-interpreted. And now much-experienced abuse like that. In other countries, especially Asian, Spanish, Hispanic, etc, it is still used today. You can sadly get away with that. In America, it is hardly reported. And men today have got extremely aggressive, and angry. Many again for the right reasons because of the lack of resources and discrimination against men. But again, as is women, men are aiding to their own problems.
btbc92

1 mo
God and Jesus can change you. You have to have that desire to change. You cannot do it by yourself. Jesus already paid the price. Now you have to be "Ye Transformed" in the kingdom of God as the old ways are remembered no more and you're new in God. We as humans can see but so far, but we can still feel God's love in our lives and others when we choose to live life by his word and standards. God orders your steps. But you have to allow him. And in both good and bad times, give him all the praise.
btbc92

1 mo
This video with these men describe it perfectly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv_KAnY5XNQ
shade_19

1 mo
@btbc92 Watever u said, does it only specifically apply to men? "I mean are there not women with such mentality?"
btbc92

1 mo
@shade_19 It's called at that point toxic femininity. Think of the movie It's a Wonderful Life as an example. Think of this as a mini HW assignment.

You have the placeholder of (1) Toxic Masculinity, (2) Masculinity, (3) Feminicity, (4) Toxic Feminicity:

Your answer choices to match are these characters to make it easier on you. Letters are random so don't worry. Focus on the names:

(d) George Bailey
(a) Mary Hatch Bailey
(b) Violet Bick
(c) Sam Wainwright

Match the corresponding characters name that best fits the traits of either Toxic or Regular term. I'll give you the correct answers once your finished.
btbc92

1 mo
And if you have never seen the movie before, they have clips on Youtube. Study the characters before making the matches.
shade_19

1 mo
Lol I don't know and idc who those people r , but i appreciate that u have a sense of acceptance of toxic feminicity as u do of toxic musculinity
btbc92

1 mo
@shade_19 No. If you don't care, why ask the question? I am trying to teach you something. If your behavior is like that? Guess what? Toxic masculinity. If you don't care, women stop caring. We reflect your behavior.
btbc92

1 mo
A woman will not want to deal with a man who doesn't care. She will walk out or find another guy. You don't want that? Start caring. Because the same characters you say you don't care about is a reflection of today's society. George Bailey is a man. Respectable at that. Not a lot of men like that anymore. His eventual wife, Mary is a woman. Respectable women who have dreams and a bit crafty, but she is loving. Unlike Violet who plays with men's hearts. You love those women because she's "sexy". She gives that sex appeal. And you act like Sam Wainwright, Mary's ex who was two-timing her with other women in New York while she's home. But her heart has always been with George. Get it now? Start thinking about the kind of man you are. And the women your pursuing.
btbc92

1 mo
The same applies to men. If we stop caring and the guy does, eventually he stops and does the same.
shade_19

1 mo
Did u even understand what i said? And why the fuk should i even care who those people r, I'm not even American
If i ask u bout Indira Gandhi or Subhash Chandra Bose randomly and tell u to categorise.. how will u and why would u... tf u didn't even understand my statement
btbc92

1 mo
At this point, ot doesn't matter. If you can't even tell the difference, then you aren't just understanding it. You don't see what toxic masculinity is. And your behaving that way.
KrakenAttackin

1 mo
TL;DR... again.
JDavid25

1 mo
You might as well just say toxic people exist.. Toxic masculinity and femininity are just silly terms really.. Men and women have always worked together in some way throughout history.. Sometimes just surviving with one another. History is very grey and I dislike when people paint certain aspects of it and try to victimize a certain group.. Men and women each had problems throughout history..
SomeGuyCalledTom

1 mo
I didn't read your entire comment chain, but you did touch on the MBTI factor, which I've come to thinking of a lot recently in regards to how "traditional masculinity" is defined. I'm an INFP, which of course means I'm probably on the more "sensitive" end of the masculinity spectrum.

However, I don't see myself as being pressured into a state of so-called "toxic masculinity". I'm very much aware that INFP traits are not typically those associated with the traditional "man's man" image. But I also don't feel that my more sensitive nature "feminizes" me in any way, or negates my overall "manliness".

I've made peace with the fact of my more sensitive, empathetic nature, and I tend to screen out the sorts of people who conflate such a nature with being a [sic] "homo" or "panzy" or whatever. I don't have any bad feelings towards people who view things in such black and white terms, but I just choose not to associate with them.

I do believe there exists a masculine ideal that's in alignment with ingrained traits like sensitivity, empathy, patience, kindness, and introspective pursuit of truth/honour/fairness. I suppose you could make the case that any concept of masculinity that tries to ERASE such traits would have an element of "toxicity".

But I also recognise that not all men are gonna share my personal conception of what it means to be a "real man" in the modern world. Even in ancient civilisations, there was the implicit understanding that not every man was born to be a war chief or a hunter. There was a place in society for scholars, thinkers, poets, clerics, artists, storytellers, and healers.
SomeGuyCalledTom

1 mo
A healthy society, then, could be defined as a society which allows the nature of each man and woman to be proportionally reflected in their respective occupations and leisurely pasttimes. A society that says men can "only" be war-mongers, and women can "only" be baby-makers, wouldn't be considered healthy or diverse in the long run, since pushing round pegs into square holes for years on end will produce an unsatisfied populace, resulting in listelessness, ennui, and resentment.

So I think we should be grateful to live in modern western societies, where to a large extent, people can seek avenues of personal and professional development that optimally (or at least partially) match the individual's composite nature. I do, of course, worry that the deck may be somewhat stacked against types such as INFP, compared to their opposites like ESTJ, whom seem to have no difficulty getting into high-powered corporate positions. And artistically-inclined people will always have to contend with the realities of the "starving artist", moreso than leadership-inclined people who are more willing to set aside creativity, and just ascend the corporate hierarchy.

It's not a perfect system, but it's also a lot better than having 100% conscription rates of men into armed forces, or the forcing of women into obligatory motherhood, or the shuttling of children into cheap industrial labour. Things could be better, but they could also be so, so, SO much worse.
btbc92

1 mo
@JDavid25 There not silly terms because males and females operate on a different scale, manner, culture, and ways of being. Toxic people are toxic people, but now we are talking about the toxicity of the environment and upbringing on a mental and psychological level, So now. They are silly terms, it is broader and it extends beyond just the sociological level. This has a system and component in it and this is deep enough that many do not want to cross because now you will begin to start questioning your purpose and existence. 2 things nobody wants to do.

So the term is very much real, and many of you are doing it now.

"Men and women have always worked together in some way throughout history.. Sometimes just surviving with one another. History is very grey and I dislike when people paint certain aspects of it and try to victimize a certain group.. Men and women each had problems throughout history.." Again, this has nothing to do with toxic masculinity. It's what you decide to do with it that makes it toxic because it's not just on an individual level, it is a community and gender level. Group Thinking, peer pressure, bullying are part of the very toxicity that is mostly associated with men, with micro-aggressions and even again, being rewarded for behaviors that are not appropriate. Think of civilization and being uncivilized. It is always been a "joke" that men are uncivilized than women. This is the problem. It shouldn't just be that. These are social standings that are and can be toxic. Sexists' remarks that "only men can hunt" and "women need to stay in the kitchen are wrong. It is important that men learn to hunt and women can cook. But to simply do that as a joke is not acceptable behavior. The behavior with the standards is handled inappropriately. A woman, again would not get away with those jokes. Now the roles are reverse. So it is both toxic Masculinity and feminicity. But the ones who are the most vocal are toxic masculinity.
btbc92

1 mo
@SomeGuyCalledTom Listen. You're an INFP, which has 0 to do with your masculinity. If you are comfortable with knowing you're a sensitive man, then you do not have toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity has to do with you or even others not accepting the fact that you are. Mainly from the male's end of that:

"I ain't a p*ssy" in responding to cowardness, being emotional, crying is not acceptable behavior. This is considered toxic masculinity. Because again, as it was addressed before; men do cry, men do have feelings, nobody really knows why a person runs from something. A man does need to toughen up even women have to grow tough skin. WHY? Because if the men are weak or unreliable, other women may attempt to do the same to you. Again, toxicity while stems from other areas such as bullying, etc. Male bullying is not the same as female bullying. Men were not that aggressive eons ago. Now women adapted to be similar to men. So there is a generational shift. The biggest one with such aggressions can be both in public and private. Women tend to now do that in public freely because again "feminism" reshaped on a woman is going to look like in every place, mainly in industry. Before you cannot do that. Because again, that power and control were left to the men. That's not a problem. The problem is what the ones in charge have done that was systematic control. How much control? Think of Rockerfella control.
btbc92

1 mo
Again, your very much a man. BUT you're a peacemaker. And peacemakers don't like any of that. So again, even if you rather not fight, in order to survive you have to learn something or else you may not make it. It's literally survival of the fittest. So if your not weapon savvy, your brain better be on par. As again, an INFJ, don't like violence. But that doesn't mean I won't do what I have to do to make sure I survive. So if somebody wants to try to take my life, they'll see God early if that is what they want.
btbc92

1 mo
So understand while you're an INFP, there are others like you who have been in the military, or done things you say you may not do. A man is still somebody who is a protector. You have to be prepared to protect. So if you're unable with your brains or mouth, then you need to use your body and or muscles to get the job done. Doing nothing while your legally a man would also mean you may not be reliable, especially for a woman who NEEDS to depend on a man for that protection before she is forced to do it herself. Worse if women weren't allowed now to fight without expecting a man much. That doesn't mean we don't. But that is only because we had it literally drilled in our heads that we ASKED for that when anybody born passed the 60s did not ask! I don't remember being born in the 90s for me to say "Hey, I don't need a man to do everything! Heck with men!" Nope. I was shocked that nobody held doors anymore, men not chivalrous, men cursing women, hitting women, women acting nasty, etc. So while those statements are personal choices. It is hurtful for men to just say we wanted that when we weren't born yet to assess or make that decision. As no boy grows up saying he wants to bang every chick in the world when he never been exposed to sexual deviancy to begin with. It is literally instilled that he spreads his seed around by society. And others, sadly, like my dad, an ESTJ, thinking that it's okay to take a woman and have sex with her whenever, whether she wants to or not, even if your not married, and treat them however sexually. And then say that is what they want. There is a difference. Thank God not all ESTJs are like that.
btbc92

1 mo
Also to add, toxic femininity is just a branch of how women are perceived by men, and thus us that same toxicity to harm other women and self-inflict on themselves. Since men in a sense, don't always have to because they have double standards and be born male to be "certified" to do anything they wish to begin with. So what does that mean for those men who oppose the double standards? Their social standings become revoked. And be seen to scorn by everyone, even the toxic women.
JDavid25

1 mo
They definitely are silly terms and as a woman who is a bona-fide Christian such just simply put it as "people are sinners".. Not to disrespect you but a lot of what you said could have been condensed as you was just you sounding like some intellectual psychology expert or somethin along those lines.. And no men are not rewarded for certain behaviors or lese toxic masculinity wouldn't exist.. Or else young boys wouldn't be diagnosed with ADHD, or else men wouldn't get abused more by women and yet constantly get turned down when they ask for help, or else all throughout history men wouldn't have been told to be ready to die for women and children.. Even in the Bible, it says for men to love their wives as Christ loved the Church.. Jesus was a servant for his Church.. He washed his disciplines feet, he died for us.. We are told to love our wives as much as our own bodies.. I agree that men and women are different in a lot of ways but we are both still human, and in a lot of ways are similar.. Girls bully differently than guys.. Women can be some of the most secretly evil creatures in existence.. Seein as women are seen as less of a threat physically.. That's why I say the terms are silly.. It's just toxic people most people men and women are not that toxic, on a whole at least..
SomeGuyCalledTom

1 mo
@btbc92 I didn't mean to suggest that more sensitive men (like, but not limited to, INFP types) are somehow exempt from the necessity of being capable of protecting themselves and others from harm. I can actually be extremely protective when someone I care about is threatened, especially my mum or my sister. I'm not sure if I understood the full takeaway of your replies, as it's late atm and my attention is reduced to skim-reading. But I get the impression you've taken my explanation of my own relationship to masculine ideals (as a relatively introspective and quietly observant INFP) as some sort of justification for shirking traditional ideals of strength and honourable conduct entirely. Which is not at all what I was going for. I think all men should be capable of conducting themselves with dignity, and exerting protective strength and forthrightness into the external world of action + consequence. But equally speaking, external displays of strength are by no means ALL we should aspire to. And strength can mean many things in many situations. Looking after a sick relative requires almost superhuman kind of strength. I saw that firsthand in how my mum looked after my grandparents even as the cancer coursed through their bodies. It could also mean having the strength to dust oneself off and carry on after a drastic upheaval at work, for example, being forced out of a company one had helped build.
SomeGuyCalledTom

1 mo
Being physically intimidating is indeed its own form of strength, but even in self defense classes, lessons 1 2 and 3 are always "you can't lose the fight that never happens". With our heavy drinking lad culture here in the UK, before covid hit I'd see big strong-looking men get seriously injured in the early hours of Sunday morning, all because of some stupid altercation outside a club that could've been so easily avoided. I've probably avoided more fights than I've been in, but that's because I'm observant enough to know when shits about to hit the fan. Maybe on one occasion I've actually fought someone to defend a loved one's honour, but that's a rare occurrence that's well outside the typical demands of daily life, so it's hardly a good snapshot of the "masculine ideal" expressed in action
shade_19

1 mo
The way u r not using ur logic u seem more toxic... u literally didn't understand a word of what i said is all i understand from ur statements...
btbc92

1 mo
@shade_19

Listen. If you're going to be disrespectful, please walk. I'm not going to have an argument would a 19 year old who already sounds like he don't want to understand anything. The fact that you don't even understand what logic means says you already got a problem. And you not being from the states have nothing to do with it. It's how you choose to carry yourself. No I understand that you wasn't young man have a lot to learn for your age before you end it with bigger problems.
shade_19

1 mo
Did u even fukin understand what i had said in my 2nd statement
NO, u didn't
I'm fuked u with u anyways, not interested to argue
btbc92

1 mo
@SomeGuyCalledTom

I don't think you fully understand what I am talking about. In fact you're splitting stuff that has zero to do with what I am saying regarding what your saying of yourself. Again, no one is talking about physical strength on that level. Talking about your ability to protect.

We know that strength can be seen in other ways. But again we still need the physical aspects of a man. Because let me tell you something as a woman, there's a lot of things I can do that some men cannot do because they didn't do what they got to do. Not because they didn't have it because they just didn't. But because they just didn't do it. What you're talking about regarding the drinking part that is considered toxic because they think that is okay to do and then they cannot control themselves, and then they get drunk. That's where it's a problem. Strong looking people have nothing to do with that. It's what you choose to do with it. And no being physically intimidating is not what a man is. If you look like that naturally didn't you do. If you don't you don't. But that's not what I'm talkin about. What I'm talkin about is you do what you got to do. As a man. That means if you don't have the physical strength to do something then you do what you got to do. If you do, you continue to build on that and you do other things. Exercise is important for everybody, gaining and building strength is important for everyone oh, well women as well as men.

What we're talking about again is what want you to do with it.
btbc92

1 mo
No I understand exactly what you had said. I understand exactly very clearly of what your statement is. You're nasty toxic attitude, is hurting yourself kid. I told you to do something so I can explain to you further on what you have pacifically asked. You and your second statement was made to be very condescending and disrespectful. That means you don't have a flu and what is being said to you. Because you don't give a damn and you have a you don't give a damn attitude. So you're not just wasting your time you're wasting my time so I highly suggest you get out.
shade_19

1 mo
I'm talking bout ideology and u r talking bout random people, how the fuk it matters who the people r if the ideology is same? But none of the thing went down ur brain... just over it
btbc92

1 mo
No you just an argumentative person who more likely miserable. And if you're not already seeing somebody professionally please do get professional help.
btbc92

1 mo
Well maybe if you use your brain for somebody who's claiming to be using more logic than me maybe you will figure that out. You can't even figure that out then it says what's going down in your brain. I know what's going on in my brain and I'm halfway tired kid. It does matter because how you carry yourself with the very thing that you don't want to see what's around you if not in front of you. You ain't talked about etiology you were talkin about things that you don't even know at your age. You don't seem to care about that. Because in your mind it doesn't matter. Yet you want to know why you're accused of things that's why you get accused of it. You lack self-awareness.
shade_19

1 mo
Ya, ofc not interested in ur stupid argument when u didn't understand a word and the meaning behind it
btbc92

1 mo
No I do understand it. How you behave as a perfect example of it. You're the perfect example what a toxic man is. Somebody who argues the way you do, somebody was miserable as hell and speaking to a woman like that. That's a toxic man. A toxic man who treats a woman like that, treat people like that, have that attitude, nasty, expect you to listen to them but they don't want to listen to other people. That is a toxic man. You are displaying toxic masculinity.
shade_19

1 mo
U r the example of toxic feminicity, not me
Behaving exactly like Karens
Not giving a damn of what the front person is saying even if he is agreeing with what u r saying but just spitting ur own words filled up in ur brain irrespective of what the person is trying to tell
btbc92

1 mo
No I'm not. The fact that you even want to stay that is very disrespectful and it says a lot about you not me. No I know why you're disagreeing with me. I don't care if you do. I'm telling you exactly what you are about yourself that you can't stand. You don't want to see it because at your age that's all you care about is just yourself. The fact that you want to call people Karen's is very disrespectful and is very disrespectful to any person whose name that. Very disrespectful to every other person that you don't even know. Take the speck out of your eye before you want to try to take aspect of somebody else's. I'm telling you exactly what kind of person you are. I care a lot about what you're saying and from what I'm seeing you just don't love yourself, and you need help. Your attitude and your toxic Behavior I live alone. Because you are not worth having myself getting sick over, the baggage, or me getting miserable with. I learn now to stay away from people like yourself. Because the only one that can help you is God himself.
shade_19

1 mo
Damn! U r literally illiterate
I type agree and u read disagree
U really need an eye check up and again didn't get a word what i said😂 I'm done with u
btbc92

1 mo
I leave alone*
The fact that you even want to say that*

So no I don't have no toxic femininity over here. I know to be kind, I know to be gentle, I know to be respectful, honorable, obedient, not self starving, being a doer and not just a listener ONLY, having respect for people, being sensitive to other people's needs, and doing what I have to do as a woman and many more things. If there is toxicity anywhere I know not has nothing to do with me have to do with the people I'm around. And sadly people like you I've been around my entire life. At least I know it's not normal. And I could tell just by your words alone you think it's normal Behavior. And I'm telling you it is not. So if you actually think that you are psychologically stable and okay you're not stable buddy. Sorry to burst your bubble of your little world over there but you're not stable. If you think having a standoffish attitude is normal you got a lot of problems and you need help. So I know why I am the way I am. But unlike you I don't make excuses. But do not think that everybody's going to tolerate your BS. What I am curious about psychologically, since I am a woman and I am not a man. Is where do you men and you boys get that behavior from? Because I know for a fact that come from not having a solid foundation in your life. But I tell you now I'm not having that around me.
btbc92

1 mo
Enough. You didn't type agree with nothing. The only thing you agreed with, is that you appreciate that I have a sense of acceptance of toxic femininity. That's it. And I addressed to you before the fact that you don't care who the other people are is again the reason why I said what I told you. So no. I did before. My concern is that you said that you did not care when you need to care. Because men back in the day did not behave like you. I care because I know that's an example of what a man supposed to be. And you're not displaying those examples. That is concerning because other young women who are around your age needs to see it from you. And if they can't see that from you understand this day don't want to be with you. What you choose to do reflects what how a woman perceives another man. So you better care. You better care. Because everything that you're doing, everything you're saying, things you believe in, you influencing those around you. Others especially children I want to see it and they're going to start thinking that that's what a man is supposed to do.
btbc92

1 mo
All your statements that was basically oh I'm glad you acknowledged it and be done with it. No. We're going to address everything. But this topic is about toxic masculinity. It is not about toxic them in the city. When someone starts asking about toxic femininity, then we can talk about that more in depth. But now you're behaving is why women also become more toxic. As an empathic person I cannot be around where there is poison.
shade_19

1 mo
Shut up now !
btbc92

1 mo
Now you're blocked.
SomeGuyCalledTom

1 mo
Okay well I don't disagree with any of that, I wasn't arguing to the contrary. Of course a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. I'm not arguing for the proliferation of weak willed men. My point was that "doing what must be done" need not fit to some unidimensional one-size-fits-all combination of personality traits. An INFP can be just as virtuous and courageous as an ESTJ, for example. But he can then go off on his leisure time, and cry at beautiful poetry, or pet kittens in a rescue sanctuary, or some other "soft" activity, and still be just as much a man as Mr. Macho. In fact I regard Mr Macho as a facade masking deep fear and insecurity. A man with core confidence doesn't need to modulate his behavior to curate an aura of manliness. He just *is* a real man, in his alignment of conduct and values.
btbc92

1 mo
@SomeGuyCalledTom Again, we are not talking about personality traits. We are talking about what is and isn't required of a man. Personality is only about 10% of that aspect as it can influence who he is. But more so what he does with it. ESTJs are more focused on the traditional aspect and love dominance and control. That is not an INFP, and many INFPs are peacemakers and more followers than leaders. Which shapes the kind of men most women are attracted to. INFPs need to make up a huge chunky of what they naturally lack that ESTJs may naturally and readily grasps. In other words, ESTJs grasp it quicker. INFPs are slower. For somebody like me, INFPs are okay in their place. But unless they compensate more than just their ability to feel, it can make a big lack of attraction.
btbc92

1 mo
Again, every person is different. But as I said, it is a big factor in how a man handles it. We women sadly can get away with being a bit on the "masculine-side" than you can.

Answer 2

btbc92

2b cont.: What this teaches us as babies, girls, teens, young adults, etc is that men see us as less. Unable to do anything without them, any help they offer comes with something in exchange. Women are not just property (in a bad way), we're seen as having 0 rights. A man wants sex, you either have it, or your toss out in the street forced to be a beggar or a PROSTITUTE. If you were NOT a virgin, you were seen as used up or unwanted. Back in the middle ages, girls who were raped could NOT get married. No one would take her. Any guy who did will lose his reputation, benefits, jobs, and maybe citizenship. This is TOXIC MASCULINITY. If you watch a few scenes from Outlander, that is a good example of how lustful men were, men got raped by other men, women were raped by their husbands, beaten, and even tortured in public, blood spilled and all. It's demonic. That's how demons torture souls who went to hell and did lustful things in this life I was hearing of those who went there. And you couldn't die. It is that serious. All that crap your learning from pornography and erotic material is that. That's where you're learning it from. And the women and girls exposed to that assume it NORMAL. And it's not. It's presented as that when it's not. You emulate what you SEE and you do that in real life. Now everybody is doing what you're exposed to. The younger gen doesn't KNOW any BETTER now. How then can we protect our children and teens from being sexualized now? We can't. You have people teaching babies about perverse sex. This is from the men, not women entirely on their own. The woman got this from the men she slept with or exposed to.

Answer 3

btbc92

2c: Bullying is done by fathers and also mothers who believe this from her own home upbringing. A woman who has a father who does this is 2x as likely to be married off to a man similar or just like her father. Any guy who is not like the father would be written off and cannot marry the daughter, even if he was rich and well off. They will marry them to men who CONTROL THEM. Look at Shakespeare. A midsummer night's dream with Hermia. She is forced and given a choice of Nunnery, Marriage to Lysander or DEATH. She has 0 RIGHTS! This is toxic masculinity. You have a man who wants to love her whom she chooses, and is forced to marry a guy who obviously doesn't LOVE HER, but LUSTS and the father APPROVES! Don't you men get it? This is the source or at least 2nd source of the toxicity! The who convo is all about SEX. And if she doesn't please him sexually she's done either way. That's why she rather have died. They are so desperate for her to have sex and be useful sexually, her own father gives her "time to think it over". Hmm, but it doesn't exist. Okay.

Society: Marry your potential rapist, go to a nunnery or (celibacy back then) where you will forever die a virgin and be the scorn of society or die an honorable death as your useless. (Do you know most fathers would rather have a son over a daughter?)

Toxic masculinity: Well society says I need sex with you 6x times a day even if you say no, and I CAN DO WHATEVER, WHENEVER, HOWEVER, and you need to like it. Do the cooking, have kids, and the cleaning, be silent around other men (that includes other male children), do not even speak, be in the woman's quarters until the guess is gone. If your libido runs dry and hits menopause, if permitted I can take on a much youthful and younger bride (13+). How SICK is THIS!!! But God permits it out of the hardness of your HEARTS. So there you GO. And guess what? You're STILL unhappy in the 21st century.

This is a joke. I'm a virgin, never bothered with a man. So I know.

Answer 4

btbc92

2d: Abuse. Inline with C, sexual abuse is seen as NORMAL. In their eyes, there was no such thing as ABUSE. Even young boys get abused. This is why we are seeing SO MANY CASES of Pastoral abuse in the Catholic and Christian churches. So many boys in the 100k's reporting RAPE. That includes gentlemen, Boy scouts. Olympics. This is all stemming from toxic masculinity. It is eons time. Something that God said NOT to DO. Other nations who worshiped pagan gods did just that and it spread to God's people. The Egyptians did it WORSE. All of that treatment of slavery etc got into the 12 tribes as WELL. Do your HISTORY people! That's why God had to have the older generations die out because of their sin. And he had to divorce Isreal twice. Because of Idolatry, Spiritual adultery, and fornication, and the whoredoms. When the Greeks and Romans came in, made it worse. Even during the times of Kings and judges expresses this. This is toxic masculinity. Where Deborah, had to be appointed as a judge because the others did worse. She wasn't perfect and had her own that she had to answer for, but if it came to a point a woman had to be in charge for the while, that says something. Look at politics? Toxic masculinity all there. Men disrespecting other men. Men disrespecting women. Men being sexist. Women disrespecting other women now. That is the effect of it. And you call this MANLY.

So now let's look at the male users you got up there with their comment: " "Toxic Masculinity" is a myth, there is only assholes being assholes, and assholes come in all genders, colors, religion, etc." Here is the problem. He is DEFLECTING the issue. The issue is men PERIOD. We are NOT talking about the loud minority. We are talking about MEN as a WHOLE. First, we need to define what is a MAN:

Answer 5

btbc92

Genetically and Physically:
1. A man is born with a penis, testicles, the ability to make millions of sperm, ejaculate, have XY chromosomes, and is heterogametic as determined by both his sex and gender.
2. He has the ability to be stronger than a woman (normally and naturally as cases vary), ability to grow a beard, maybe thin, bulk, stalky, wide, have muscle, little to none. Hair is usually short, but can grow long. Have smoother hair than women especially straight. Can have straight, curly, coily, kinky hair just as women. How it's kept is up the man, hair texture, and length. Can grow a mustache, tend to be smellier than women. Produce more physically.
3. Personality varies as do women. If going by again, MBTI, they have the same characters but social, cultural, and gender expectations are DIFFERENT. (I'll get into that afterward)

Answer 6

btbc92

What is EXPECTED of a man and when does somebody become a MAN?: (Most cultures, belief system, faith, religions, etc defines this as):

1. A man who is well aware of who is HE. Not what somebody else tells him.
2. Somebody who is comfortable with his masculinity: he is able to cry, express himself, respect others, won't attack people for no reason, have his own interest besides care for the interest of OTHERS. Somebody whom everybody can RESPECT. A good reputation, and carries himself as expected.

Answer 7

btbc92

3. A provider:

Boyhood- (ancient times to 3rd world countries) Learning how to hunt, Cook in the wild, developing counting skills with money/source of money, developing the right mindset and attitude, discipline and fortitude. Learning how to address elders, women, and those below you. Boys had to become literate especially of higher status. Boys were taught a CRAFT: Woodworking, Carpentry, Knighthood, Politics, Weapons dealer or Blacksmiths, Barbor, Educator, Scribe (somebody who transcribes works, messages, letters or decrees, etc), Medical Doctors, anything considers man dominated industries.
Manhood - Rite of passage meant either prove of manhood by survival out in the wilderness, hunting for an animal's head, or other rites that may include rituals, ceremonies, and usually a woman's hand in marriage. If he didn't survive he was honored. If he ran, he was a coward and be branded either a trader or outcast. For other traditions like the Jewish people you have Barmitvas'. A young boy becomes a man at 13. Back then he can take on a wife when he has stability.
Adulthood - A person between a certain age even at 8/12 usually 13-14 on up who can own his own things: A home, land, horse, animals, title, career, job, MONEY. ($$$)

Answer 8

btbc92

A Leader: Leadership positions, Heros, Military men. In today's world: You can view a CEO, boss, manager, anything that holds status can be seen as a leader. Even followership can be leadership. Volunteering, Hospitality, so much gentleman.

But here is the toxic masculinity: PRIDE, EGO, VANITY. These are negative traits. For a woman, it's toxic femininity. It's still toxic. Women. A man with no "pride" in this world is not a man. That is not how God defines a man. See the difference? Men are taught CONFLICTING Messages.

The world asks you: Men, where is your PRIDE?
Yet. The word of God says: Pride comes before the what: FALL.
Look at many haughty world leaders? Their kingdoms fell, and they died along with it. They're ways lost to time forever unless somebody tries to bring it back. It will fall the same way as they did.

Answer 9

btbc92

My bad Marriage to Demetrius*

Answer 10

kingofthellamas

TLDR

Answer 11

btbc92

@kingofthellamas I don't care. You're showing what you hate is being the truth about yourself. Troll elsehwere.

Answer 12

kingofthellamas

Thanks for the love. Will do.

Answer 13

iAMtheT0ASTER

I've managed to read it all and I have to agree with most of it. You're willing to look at the negative traits of both sides and not be biased. The most abysmal traits of toxic masculinity are products of the past and most of those traits aren't in effect today, but a lot are in certain cultures. I like how you explained that it's mostly how men are raised as boys and how they're taught to repress themselves and to be "tough". The only parts I disagree with is you say that men are taught to hit and abuse their women. Most boys are told to never hit a girl, and when men do hit women people are quick to run to her aid even if she's in the wrong. You also say that men see rape as normal. Unfortunately in some cultures, it's been normalized, I can only speak for America and I don't see it normalized here. Rape in America is seen as one of the worst crimes a man can commit and even murderers in prison hate them.

Answer 14

HiveBee

You wrote out the definition of a man. But I think that definition is exactly where the idea of toxic masculinity is rooted.

You're saying a man is a provider or a leader or whatever, whether positive or not, just because he embodies a variety of positive traits does not mean that it is a good thing for men.

To say that a man MUST be anything in my opinion is the root of toxic masculinity.

As soon as you define what a man is, you create toxic masculinity.

Pidgeonholing men into some pre determined role is wrong. Pidgeonholing women into a pre determined role is wrong.

As soon as you take away a person's personal freedom of thought, you have damaged that person in my opinion.

I dont know that anyone would agree with what I'm saying. But I think it's wrong to define what a man is period.

Answer 15

iAMtheT0ASTER

Also, the guy in the screenshot is me. I wasn't really deflecting the issue, I just brushed it off because I hear a lot of crazy things like there being 52 genders, all white men are nazis, things that most people don't actually believe and I just thought that toxic masculinity was one of those made up BS.

Answer 16

HiveBee

A human being however, whether Male or female in my opinion is a conscious being who has their own life to live.

To live ones life is the purpose of that person's life. And to live a good life, a person must have values.

The values a person has are developed over time and are created through their life and learning along the way.

A person obtains the values they wish to integrate into their life, through virtue.

Virtue is an action or series of actions or principles which a person acts out in order to obtain the values they desire.

Answer 17

HiveBee

In that sense, men and women are exactly the same. Both genders must determine their own values and take upon themselves virtues to obtain said values. Obtaining said values leads to the well being of an individual.

Men and women may choose different values. That is true. But I do not believe that it is up to society to tell a person what they should value and how they should act.

Well that's how I see it anyways. I think people should be free of society's expectations, and create their own values.

Its toxic for society to impose upon you what you should do. You can only choose for yourself.

Well I know probably nobody agrees with me least of not you lol.

It's nice to say that a man should be all these nice wonderous things. Positive masculinity still leads to pressure on a man to be something that takes a lifetime of work to become.

That pressure spawns toxic masculinity in my opinion. It creates resentment and anger. People think toxic masculinity is the obviously bad parts. Violence and disrespect. I think violence and disrespect are actually a. product of the attempt to force men to be strong leaders who are always virtuous in the chsristian religious "altruistic" sense. To be a "good" man is not just some easy thing to do. It's hard to be "good" beneath the weight of the world on your shoulders. Taught you must carry everything and be the big strong manly leader who is a shining beacon of leadership that others can follow, like jesus. Not every man can be jesus. And expecting all men to become jesus I think is more harmful that anything else.

Answer 18

btbc92

@HiveBee Toxic masculinity is not rooted in that. It is rooted in sin. If you read the Bible God said for men to take care of their wives, and wives to honor their husbands and to submit him. We are to submit to each other in love. People do not know how to do that today. And yes, that is very much alive today in the modern world. It is done in private more than just in public. As another have said. Bravado is what is shown, but it is still 25% of toxic masculinity. Look at fictional characters like Link from Zelda, some from other similar games and animes, Aragon, and a whole list. Men were not like that and anybody who was was shamed and corrected.

Answer 19

btbc92

@iAMtheT0ASTER Oh trust me. They were taught that. And my father who was abused and did the abusing can say that he learned that. And others around have too. Especially back in the 1920s. My grandma saw that by her father hitting or snatching things from her mother. It is learned behavior. Like I was told if I get hit, hit others back. I never hit back because I WOULD have been suspended or put in juvi for what? Defending myself from bullies? Sadly I would come home and get the belt myself for not doing so. If in a fight I never started, I still get punished. It is a very much learned behavior. Belt spanking is very much passed on capital punishment abuse and many will use the Bible to promote it when it's wrong. God never said to abuse others. That's where they get it from. They learned this behavior back then. That is where they got it. But it is ill-interpreted. And now much-experienced abuse like that. In other countries, especially Asian, Spanish, Hispanic, etc, it is still used today. You can sadly get away with that. In America, it is hardly reported. And men today have got extremely aggressive, and angry. Many again for the right reasons because of the lack of resources and discrimination against men. But again, as is women, men are aiding to their own problems.

Answer 20

btbc92

God and Jesus can change you. You have to have that desire to change. You cannot do it by yourself. Jesus already paid the price. Now you have to be "Ye Transformed" in the kingdom of God as the old ways are remembered no more and you're new in God. We as humans can see but so far, but we can still feel God's love in our lives and others when we choose to live life by his word and standards. God orders your steps. But you have to allow him. And in both good and bad times, give him all the praise.

Answer 21

btbc92

This video with these men describe it perfectly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv_KAnY5XNQ

Answer 22

shade_19

@btbc92 Watever u said, does it only specifically apply to men? "I mean are there not women with such mentality?"

Answer 23

btbc92

@shade_19 It's called at that point toxic femininity. Think of the movie It's a Wonderful Life as an example. Think of this as a mini HW assignment.

You have the placeholder of (1) Toxic Masculinity, (2) Masculinity, (3) Feminicity, (4) Toxic Feminicity:

Your answer choices to match are these characters to make it easier on you. Letters are random so don't worry. Focus on the names:

(d) George Bailey
(a) Mary Hatch Bailey
(b) Violet Bick
(c) Sam Wainwright

Match the corresponding characters name that best fits the traits of either Toxic or Regular term. I'll give you the correct answers once your finished.

Answer 24

btbc92

And if you have never seen the movie before, they have clips on Youtube. Study the characters before making the matches.

Answer 25

shade_19

Lol I don't know and idc who those people r , but i appreciate that u have a sense of acceptance of toxic feminicity as u do of toxic musculinity

Answer 26

btbc92

@shade_19 No. If you don't care, why ask the question? I am trying to teach you something. If your behavior is like that? Guess what? Toxic masculinity. If you don't care, women stop caring. We reflect your behavior.

Answer 27

btbc92

A woman will not want to deal with a man who doesn't care. She will walk out or find another guy. You don't want that? Start caring. Because the same characters you say you don't care about is a reflection of today's society. George Bailey is a man. Respectable at that. Not a lot of men like that anymore. His eventual wife, Mary is a woman. Respectable women who have dreams and a bit crafty, but she is loving. Unlike Violet who plays with men's hearts. You love those women because she's "sexy". She gives that sex appeal. And you act like Sam Wainwright, Mary's ex who was two-timing her with other women in New York while she's home. But her heart has always been with George. Get it now? Start thinking about the kind of man you are. And the women your pursuing.

Answer 28

btbc92

The same applies to men. If we stop caring and the guy does, eventually he stops and does the same.

Answer 29

shade_19

Did u even understand what i said? And why the fuk should i even care who those people r, I'm not even American
If i ask u bout Indira Gandhi or Subhash Chandra Bose randomly and tell u to categorise.. how will u and why would u... tf u didn't even understand my statement

Answer 30

btbc92

At this point, ot doesn't matter. If you can't even tell the difference, then you aren't just understanding it. You don't see what toxic masculinity is. And your behaving that way.

Answer 31

KrakenAttackin

TL;DR... again.

Answer 32

JDavid25

You might as well just say toxic people exist.. Toxic masculinity and femininity are just silly terms really.. Men and women have always worked together in some way throughout history.. Sometimes just surviving with one another. History is very grey and I dislike when people paint certain aspects of it and try to victimize a certain group.. Men and women each had problems throughout history..

Answer 33

SomeGuyCalledTom

I didn't read your entire comment chain, but you did touch on the MBTI factor, which I've come to thinking of a lot recently in regards to how "traditional masculinity" is defined. I'm an INFP, which of course means I'm probably on the more "sensitive" end of the masculinity spectrum.

However, I don't see myself as being pressured into a state of so-called "toxic masculinity". I'm very much aware that INFP traits are not typically those associated with the traditional "man's man" image. But I also don't feel that my more sensitive nature "feminizes" me in any way, or negates my overall "manliness".

I've made peace with the fact of my more sensitive, empathetic nature, and I tend to screen out the sorts of people who conflate such a nature with being a [sic] "homo" or "panzy" or whatever. I don't have any bad feelings towards people who view things in such black and white terms, but I just choose not to associate with them.

I do believe there exists a masculine ideal that's in alignment with ingrained traits like sensitivity, empathy, patience, kindness, and introspective pursuit of truth/honour/fairness. I suppose you could make the case that any concept of masculinity that tries to ERASE such traits would have an element of "toxicity".

But I also recognise that not all men are gonna share my personal conception of what it means to be a "real man" in the modern world. Even in ancient civilisations, there was the implicit understanding that not every man was born to be a war chief or a hunter. There was a place in society for scholars, thinkers, poets, clerics, artists, storytellers, and healers.

Answer 34

SomeGuyCalledTom

A healthy society, then, could be defined as a society which allows the nature of each man and woman to be proportionally reflected in their respective occupations and leisurely pasttimes. A society that says men can "only" be war-mongers, and women can "only" be baby-makers, wouldn't be considered healthy or diverse in the long run, since pushing round pegs into square holes for years on end will produce an unsatisfied populace, resulting in listelessness, ennui, and resentment.

So I think we should be grateful to live in modern western societies, where to a large extent, people can seek avenues of personal and professional development that optimally (or at least partially) match the individual's composite nature. I do, of course, worry that the deck may be somewhat stacked against types such as INFP, compared to their opposites like ESTJ, whom seem to have no difficulty getting into high-powered corporate positions. And artistically-inclined people will always have to contend with the realities of the "starving artist", moreso than leadership-inclined people who are more willing to set aside creativity, and just ascend the corporate hierarchy.

It's not a perfect system, but it's also a lot better than having 100% conscription rates of men into armed forces, or the forcing of women into obligatory motherhood, or the shuttling of children into cheap industrial labour. Things could be better, but they could also be so, so, SO much worse.

Answer 35

btbc92

@JDavid25 There not silly terms because males and females operate on a different scale, manner, culture, and ways of being. Toxic people are toxic people, but now we are talking about the toxicity of the environment and upbringing on a mental and psychological level, So now. They are silly terms, it is broader and it extends beyond just the sociological level. This has a system and component in it and this is deep enough that many do not want to cross because now you will begin to start questioning your purpose and existence. 2 things nobody wants to do.

So the term is very much real, and many of you are doing it now.

"Men and women have always worked together in some way throughout history.. Sometimes just surviving with one another. History is very grey and I dislike when people paint certain aspects of it and try to victimize a certain group.. Men and women each had problems throughout history.." Again, this has nothing to do with toxic masculinity. It's what you decide to do with it that makes it toxic because it's not just on an individual level, it is a community and gender level. Group Thinking, peer pressure, bullying are part of the very toxicity that is mostly associated with men, with micro-aggressions and even again, being rewarded for behaviors that are not appropriate. Think of civilization and being uncivilized. It is always been a "joke" that men are uncivilized than women. This is the problem. It shouldn't just be that. These are social standings that are and can be toxic. Sexists' remarks that "only men can hunt" and "women need to stay in the kitchen are wrong. It is important that men learn to hunt and women can cook. But to simply do that as a joke is not acceptable behavior. The behavior with the standards is handled inappropriately. A woman, again would not get away with those jokes. Now the roles are reverse. So it is both toxic Masculinity and feminicity. But the ones who are the most vocal are toxic masculinity.

Answer 36

btbc92

@SomeGuyCalledTom Listen. You're an INFP, which has 0 to do with your masculinity. If you are comfortable with knowing you're a sensitive man, then you do not have toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity has to do with you or even others not accepting the fact that you are. Mainly from the male's end of that:

"I ain't a p*ssy" in responding to cowardness, being emotional, crying is not acceptable behavior. This is considered toxic masculinity. Because again, as it was addressed before; men do cry, men do have feelings, nobody really knows why a person runs from something. A man does need to toughen up even women have to grow tough skin. WHY? Because if the men are weak or unreliable, other women may attempt to do the same to you. Again, toxicity while stems from other areas such as bullying, etc. Male bullying is not the same as female bullying. Men were not that aggressive eons ago. Now women adapted to be similar to men. So there is a generational shift. The biggest one with such aggressions can be both in public and private. Women tend to now do that in public freely because again "feminism" reshaped on a woman is going to look like in every place, mainly in industry. Before you cannot do that. Because again, that power and control were left to the men. That's not a problem. The problem is what the ones in charge have done that was systematic control. How much control? Think of Rockerfella control.

Answer 37

btbc92

Again, your very much a man. BUT you're a peacemaker. And peacemakers don't like any of that. So again, even if you rather not fight, in order to survive you have to learn something or else you may not make it. It's literally survival of the fittest. So if your not weapon savvy, your brain better be on par. As again, an INFJ, don't like violence. But that doesn't mean I won't do what I have to do to make sure I survive. So if somebody wants to try to take my life, they'll see God early if that is what they want.

Answer 38

btbc92

So understand while you're an INFP, there are others like you who have been in the military, or done things you say you may not do. A man is still somebody who is a protector. You have to be prepared to protect. So if you're unable with your brains or mouth, then you need to use your body and or muscles to get the job done. Doing nothing while your legally a man would also mean you may not be reliable, especially for a woman who NEEDS to depend on a man for that protection before she is forced to do it herself. Worse if women weren't allowed now to fight without expecting a man much. That doesn't mean we don't. But that is only because we had it literally drilled in our heads that we ASKED for that when anybody born passed the 60s did not ask! I don't remember being born in the 90s for me to say "Hey, I don't need a man to do everything! Heck with men!" Nope. I was shocked that nobody held doors anymore, men not chivalrous, men cursing women, hitting women, women acting nasty, etc. So while those statements are personal choices. It is hurtful for men to just say we wanted that when we weren't born yet to assess or make that decision. As no boy grows up saying he wants to bang every chick in the world when he never been exposed to sexual deviancy to begin with. It is literally instilled that he spreads his seed around by society. And others, sadly, like my dad, an ESTJ, thinking that it's okay to take a woman and have sex with her whenever, whether she wants to or not, even if your not married, and treat them however sexually. And then say that is what they want. There is a difference. Thank God not all ESTJs are like that.

Answer 39

btbc92

Also to add, toxic femininity is just a branch of how women are perceived by men, and thus us that same toxicity to harm other women and self-inflict on themselves. Since men in a sense, don't always have to because they have double standards and be born male to be "certified" to do anything they wish to begin with. So what does that mean for those men who oppose the double standards? Their social standings become revoked. And be seen to scorn by everyone, even the toxic women.

Answer 40

JDavid25

They definitely are silly terms and as a woman who is a bona-fide Christian such just simply put it as "people are sinners".. Not to disrespect you but a lot of what you said could have been condensed as you was just you sounding like some intellectual psychology expert or somethin along those lines.. And no men are not rewarded for certain behaviors or lese toxic masculinity wouldn't exist.. Or else young boys wouldn't be diagnosed with ADHD, or else men wouldn't get abused more by women and yet constantly get turned down when they ask for help, or else all throughout history men wouldn't have been told to be ready to die for women and children.. Even in the Bible, it says for men to love their wives as Christ loved the Church.. Jesus was a servant for his Church.. He washed his disciplines feet, he died for us.. We are told to love our wives as much as our own bodies.. I agree that men and women are different in a lot of ways but we are both still human, and in a lot of ways are similar.. Girls bully differently than guys.. Women can be some of the most secretly evil creatures in existence.. Seein as women are seen as less of a threat physically.. That's why I say the terms are silly.. It's just toxic people most people men and women are not that toxic, on a whole at least..

Answer 41

SomeGuyCalledTom

@btbc92 I didn't mean to suggest that more sensitive men (like, but not limited to, INFP types) are somehow exempt from the necessity of being capable of protecting themselves and others from harm. I can actually be extremely protective when someone I care about is threatened, especially my mum or my sister. I'm not sure if I understood the full takeaway of your replies, as it's late atm and my attention is reduced to skim-reading. But I get the impression you've taken my explanation of my own relationship to masculine ideals (as a relatively introspective and quietly observant INFP) as some sort of justification for shirking traditional ideals of strength and honourable conduct entirely. Which is not at all what I was going for. I think all men should be capable of conducting themselves with dignity, and exerting protective strength and forthrightness into the external world of action + consequence. But equally speaking, external displays of strength are by no means ALL we should aspire to. And strength can mean many things in many situations. Looking after a sick relative requires almost superhuman kind of strength. I saw that firsthand in how my mum looked after my grandparents even as the cancer coursed through their bodies. It could also mean having the strength to dust oneself off and carry on after a drastic upheaval at work, for example, being forced out of a company one had helped build.

Answer 42

SomeGuyCalledTom

Being physically intimidating is indeed its own form of strength, but even in self defense classes, lessons 1 2 and 3 are always "you can't lose the fight that never happens". With our heavy drinking lad culture here in the UK, before covid hit I'd see big strong-looking men get seriously injured in the early hours of Sunday morning, all because of some stupid altercation outside a club that could've been so easily avoided. I've probably avoided more fights than I've been in, but that's because I'm observant enough to know when shits about to hit the fan. Maybe on one occasion I've actually fought someone to defend a loved one's honour, but that's a rare occurrence that's well outside the typical demands of daily life, so it's hardly a good snapshot of the "masculine ideal" expressed in action

Answer 43

shade_19

The way u r not using ur logic u seem more toxic... u literally didn't understand a word of what i said is all i understand from ur statements...

Answer 44

btbc92

@shade_19

Listen. If you're going to be disrespectful, please walk. I'm not going to have an argument would a 19 year old who already sounds like he don't want to understand anything. The fact that you don't even understand what logic means says you already got a problem. And you not being from the states have nothing to do with it. It's how you choose to carry yourself. No I understand that you wasn't young man have a lot to learn for your age before you end it with bigger problems.

Answer 45

shade_19

Did u even fukin understand what i had said in my 2nd statement
NO, u didn't
I'm fuked u with u anyways, not interested to argue

Answer 46

btbc92

@SomeGuyCalledTom

I don't think you fully understand what I am talking about. In fact you're splitting stuff that has zero to do with what I am saying regarding what your saying of yourself. Again, no one is talking about physical strength on that level. Talking about your ability to protect.

We know that strength can be seen in other ways. But again we still need the physical aspects of a man. Because let me tell you something as a woman, there's a lot of things I can do that some men cannot do because they didn't do what they got to do. Not because they didn't have it because they just didn't. But because they just didn't do it. What you're talking about regarding the drinking part that is considered toxic because they think that is okay to do and then they cannot control themselves, and then they get drunk. That's where it's a problem. Strong looking people have nothing to do with that. It's what you choose to do with it. And no being physically intimidating is not what a man is. If you look like that naturally didn't you do. If you don't you don't. But that's not what I'm talkin about. What I'm talkin about is you do what you got to do. As a man. That means if you don't have the physical strength to do something then you do what you got to do. If you do, you continue to build on that and you do other things. Exercise is important for everybody, gaining and building strength is important for everyone oh, well women as well as men.

What we're talking about again is what want you to do with it.

Answer 47

btbc92

No I understand exactly what you had said. I understand exactly very clearly of what your statement is. You're nasty toxic attitude, is hurting yourself kid. I told you to do something so I can explain to you further on what you have pacifically asked. You and your second statement was made to be very condescending and disrespectful. That means you don't have a flu and what is being said to you. Because you don't give a damn and you have a you don't give a damn attitude. So you're not just wasting your time you're wasting my time so I highly suggest you get out.

Answer 48

shade_19

I'm talking bout ideology and u r talking bout random people, how the fuk it matters who the people r if the ideology is same? But none of the thing went down ur brain... just over it

Answer 49

btbc92

No you just an argumentative person who more likely miserable. And if you're not already seeing somebody professionally please do get professional help.

Answer 50

btbc92

Well maybe if you use your brain for somebody who's claiming to be using more logic than me maybe you will figure that out. You can't even figure that out then it says what's going down in your brain. I know what's going on in my brain and I'm halfway tired kid. It does matter because how you carry yourself with the very thing that you don't want to see what's around you if not in front of you. You ain't talked about etiology you were talkin about things that you don't even know at your age. You don't seem to care about that. Because in your mind it doesn't matter. Yet you want to know why you're accused of things that's why you get accused of it. You lack self-awareness.

Answer 51

shade_19

Ya, ofc not interested in ur stupid argument when u didn't understand a word and the meaning behind it

Answer 52

btbc92

No I do understand it. How you behave as a perfect example of it. You're the perfect example what a toxic man is. Somebody who argues the way you do, somebody was miserable as hell and speaking to a woman like that. That's a toxic man. A toxic man who treats a woman like that, treat people like that, have that attitude, nasty, expect you to listen to them but they don't want to listen to other people. That is a toxic man. You are displaying toxic masculinity.

Answer 53

shade_19

U r the example of toxic feminicity, not me
Behaving exactly like Karens
Not giving a damn of what the front person is saying even if he is agreeing with what u r saying but just spitting ur own words filled up in ur brain irrespective of what the person is trying to tell

Answer 54

btbc92

No I'm not. The fact that you even want to stay that is very disrespectful and it says a lot about you not me. No I know why you're disagreeing with me. I don't care if you do. I'm telling you exactly what you are about yourself that you can't stand. You don't want to see it because at your age that's all you care about is just yourself. The fact that you want to call people Karen's is very disrespectful and is very disrespectful to any person whose name that. Very disrespectful to every other person that you don't even know. Take the speck out of your eye before you want to try to take aspect of somebody else's. I'm telling you exactly what kind of person you are. I care a lot about what you're saying and from what I'm seeing you just don't love yourself, and you need help. Your attitude and your toxic Behavior I live alone. Because you are not worth having myself getting sick over, the baggage, or me getting miserable with. I learn now to stay away from people like yourself. Because the only one that can help you is God himself.

Answer 55

shade_19

Damn! U r literally illiterate
I type agree and u read disagree
U really need an eye check up and again didn't get a word what i said😂 I'm done with u

Answer 56

btbc92

I leave alone*
The fact that you even want to say that*

So no I don't have no toxic femininity over here. I know to be kind, I know to be gentle, I know to be respectful, honorable, obedient, not self starving, being a doer and not just a listener ONLY, having respect for people, being sensitive to other people's needs, and doing what I have to do as a woman and many more things. If there is toxicity anywhere I know not has nothing to do with me have to do with the people I'm around. And sadly people like you I've been around my entire life. At least I know it's not normal. And I could tell just by your words alone you think it's normal Behavior. And I'm telling you it is not. So if you actually think that you are psychologically stable and okay you're not stable buddy. Sorry to burst your bubble of your little world over there but you're not stable. If you think having a standoffish attitude is normal you got a lot of problems and you need help. So I know why I am the way I am. But unlike you I don't make excuses. But do not think that everybody's going to tolerate your BS. What I am curious about psychologically, since I am a woman and I am not a man. Is where do you men and you boys get that behavior from? Because I know for a fact that come from not having a solid foundation in your life. But I tell you now I'm not having that around me.

Answer 57

btbc92

Enough. You didn't type agree with nothing. The only thing you agreed with, is that you appreciate that I have a sense of acceptance of toxic femininity. That's it. And I addressed to you before the fact that you don't care who the other people are is again the reason why I said what I told you. So no. I did before. My concern is that you said that you did not care when you need to care. Because men back in the day did not behave like you. I care because I know that's an example of what a man supposed to be. And you're not displaying those examples. That is concerning because other young women who are around your age needs to see it from you. And if they can't see that from you understand this day don't want to be with you. What you choose to do reflects what how a woman perceives another man. So you better care. You better care. Because everything that you're doing, everything you're saying, things you believe in, you influencing those around you. Others especially children I want to see it and they're going to start thinking that that's what a man is supposed to do.

Answer 58

btbc92

All your statements that was basically oh I'm glad you acknowledged it and be done with it. No. We're going to address everything. But this topic is about toxic masculinity. It is not about toxic them in the city. When someone starts asking about toxic femininity, then we can talk about that more in depth. But now you're behaving is why women also become more toxic. As an empathic person I cannot be around where there is poison.

Answer 59

shade_19

Shut up now !

Answer 60

btbc92

Now you're blocked.

Answer 61

SomeGuyCalledTom

Okay well I don't disagree with any of that, I wasn't arguing to the contrary. Of course a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. I'm not arguing for the proliferation of weak willed men. My point was that "doing what must be done" need not fit to some unidimensional one-size-fits-all combination of personality traits. An INFP can be just as virtuous and courageous as an ESTJ, for example. But he can then go off on his leisure time, and cry at beautiful poetry, or pet kittens in a rescue sanctuary, or some other "soft" activity, and still be just as much a man as Mr. Macho. In fact I regard Mr Macho as a facade masking deep fear and insecurity. A man with core confidence doesn't need to modulate his behavior to curate an aura of manliness. He just *is* a real man, in his alignment of conduct and values.

Answer 62

btbc92

@SomeGuyCalledTom Again, we are not talking about personality traits. We are talking about what is and isn't required of a man. Personality is only about 10% of that aspect as it can influence who he is. But more so what he does with it. ESTJs are more focused on the traditional aspect and love dominance and control. That is not an INFP, and many INFPs are peacemakers and more followers than leaders. Which shapes the kind of men most women are attracted to. INFPs need to make up a huge chunky of what they naturally lack that ESTJs may naturally and readily grasps. In other words, ESTJs grasp it quicker. INFPs are slower. For somebody like me, INFPs are okay in their place. But unless they compensate more than just their ability to feel, it can make a big lack of attraction.

Answer 63

btbc92

Again, every person is different. But as I said, it is a big factor in how a man handles it. We women sadly can get away with being a bit on the "masculine-side" than you can.

Answer 64

Anonymous

Toxic masculinity lived in my home. It worked like this. My father was self employed and selfish. He lived alone but stayed at my mums 4 days a week. He didn't help my mum with me, in terms of childcare or bills. But he often asked my mum for help. She used to do his accounts and his invoices etc. Until one day that stopped (probably earning too much or couldn't hide money)
He took at least 2 holidays a year sometimes he travelled 6 weeks at a time. Whilst mum and I stayed here. He went away for 6 months once.
He criticised my mum, he took the piss out of her basically because he conditionsd her and put her under a lot of stress and strain.
He pressured my mum to buy food shopping for him, larger appliances that she really couldn't afford under the guise that he was going to help. But in the end what he did was left her to pay the bills.
He wanted to appear to be the Head of the house whilst doing f all except just "grace us" with his presence.
I hated him, him and I hated how he took advantage of mum.
I hated how little attention he showed me and how little he truly cared for my education. Anything really.
He made it clear that nothing was of interest to him, unless it made him look good. All the things I was good, at he critised and mocked me for until someone else took an interest in it.
He would log in to my computer after acting like my music was crap and burn cds of them to play in his car. Usually bragging about how great extensive his library is.
I remember struggling with maths he promised my mum he'd help me, but I guess because I was so desperate for his attention, I didn't really understand him simply because I wanted his time. Anyways he wall off and talk on his phone until he years my mum come home, the rush back and stand over me as If he was helping.
The occasions where I spoke out about what he was doing. My mum asked me if I was "sure" my dad would corner me and intimidate me, threatening me not to tell.
I realise that my father was spoiled when he grew up and he was raised to have a high opinion of himself, so much so that he was confident and manipulative.
I'm ashamed to say that that was who my father was. And even now after death he is still biting my mum on the ass by having people chase her for money. Simply because he claimed for things that he wasn't entitled to, with the help of some body.
I told my mum straight do not respond to these people or forward it to his brother. Instead she gave in and sent the letter claiming he was deceast now they are writing to the executive of estate. Wtf!

She's not been sleeping and has been crying, because again she's been made a fool of.
I'm ashamed to say that was my father.
Women oh the women that have been an additional part in my father's life.
Irritating asf!
But it's his upbringing. There is something seriously wrong with him.
His brothers the same.
Even now telling my mum what to write, I told her straight, if you do add the brothers forwarding address since he is the one dealing with his estate and since he is the one that took over all the accounts and drained them and even til today is keeping the accounts active.
My father has hurt countless women. Left myself and my mother reeling from his years of abuse, he has had multiple children simply to achieve his desired financial goals with women who were actually quite affluent. He just left a trail of sh*t. Which has only gone on to lead some of his children into really destructive situations of further abuse.
I am tired of this and I'm tired of people and their bullsh*t. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. Yes he may not have raped anyone or forcibly held them against their will but he mentally, emotionally and financially abused women. I can't even write the words I wish to speak of him. Ugh!

Opinion Owner

1 mo
What I hate the most about this is people won't read this and think, this has to stop they will read it and think how can I perfect it.
He was a freeloader that yes although he had a job he had no morals and lacked all sense of honour. Anyone that reads this and views his life as a #goal really deserves to rot in hell. As I hope he is.
The thing with him is that he actually came from a good home. But because he laughed and smiled, he thinks that's acceptable. It's not! I just hope that anyone else doing crap like this pays before death.
nathanp97

1 mo
Being a bad parent isn't exclusive to men, so is this toxic masculinity or just a bad parent?
Opinion Owner

1 mo
This kind of behaviour was highlighting an experience I had with a toxic man that had poor parenting skills, exploited many people and that wasn't exclusive to just women, he had an over inflated opinion of himself and always try to dominate every space he was in. He shot down any one with a differing opinion to his own, and respect very little and very few.
His world was very selfish and entitled. His assertion always came at the expense of someone else. That is toxic masculinity.
Show All Show Less
nathanp97

1 mo
Lol women do that too. Why is this negative stuff always labeled masculine? Shouldn't it be men who decide what is and isn't masculine. How would you like if men started telling women what is and isn't lady like and what is and isn't toxic? Oh wait. Men have already done that and women have said they don't like it.
Novacane

1 mo
@nathanp97 I agree there are more women I've seen do this compared to men, that just a horrible person overall, and to the OP sorry that you had to go through that, yes he was a toxic man but not really "toxic masculinity" that's more just being a horrible parent and horrible husband, hope you guys healed from that and moved on to better things.
Opinion Owner

1 mo
Because its having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men.
The biggest one being, being unapologetically you. As a man you can be whatever whomever and conduct yourself however and you're respected simply because you are a man. It doesn't matter if your existence and all you stand for is hurtful and destructive, the mans word is final. And that is why it is toxic that is why I used the example of my family and my father who when I asked him why he did the things he did, his response was, "because I can". To have that level of power and use it for the shit he did is a waste.
And that is - Toxic masculinity!
nathanp97

1 mo
Traditionally, doesn't mean currently. As women do it to it shouldn't be viewed as a male only thing, that's would be called sexist wouldn't it? Also feminists seem to be big on getting rid of terms like fireman and replacing it with fireperson, so why do they create and propetuate terms like toxic masculinity? Seems hypocritical to me. Yes, I realized I went slightly off topic.

That's a lie. I don't think women, who aren't men, should be telling people what men can do and that they are respected for it. Have you looked on social media women get praised for everything, even being obesed. Men who are fat are often shames and so they make fun of them selves to avoid it. Also a man can't act like himself because if he cries he is often judged by people including women, and can't even be near kids that aren't his without people thinking he is a child preditor.
Novacane

1 mo
I agree in no way was I saying you are wrong, just sticking to the traditional "masculinity" which is men imposing other men to be a certain way, so yes you are right him being a man and saying he can do whatever he wants is masculinity, but from your personal story, where I live I've seen more women with those behaviors than men, they say they claim they can do it because they can and they need to be worshipped. But I won't link that being toxic femininity, that overall experience is more just being a horrible human being overall.
Opinion Owner

1 mo
I'm getting the feeling Nathan that rather than looking at the behaviour I've expressed creates the toxicity you are more interested in pointing the finger. I cannot speak for every woman or man. I used my father as an example because I dealt with this first hand. I hope someone else can share with you what they feel and it relates matches because right now I'm feeling like this is more personal to you
nathanp97

1 mo
I'm not saying what he did isn't toxic, but his behavior isn't specific to men, but by saying toxic masculinity you are suggesting otherwise, which is sexist. You are saying these specific negative traits are male traits. Do you not see an issue with that?
Opinion Owner

1 mo
No I do not. We are allowed to have differing opinions on this. In my experience this is the behaviour of men not women. There are users in every sense of the world but in this particular instance this is toxic masculinity. Calling me a lesbian just because I didn't succumb to his "charm/flattery"
nathanp97

1 mo
Who called you a lesbian? My argument is around more of the word then anything else. I agree he is toxic, but as toxicity isn't a male only trait specifying masculinity is kinda sexist.
Opinion Owner

1 mo
Unfortunately for the population you don't really get a say in this since women are usually the ones that grow and nurture young men. They have the ability to guide young men into becoming decent humans and there are a lot of young men growing up and seeing how toxic certain behaviour actually is. All this protesting and talking about it is for the ones already fully grown, refusing to make way or changes. The future doesn't allow for cold, dismissive men, with over inflated egos that need to divide and conquer everything.
nathanp97

1 mo
If women are the ones raising men they are the ones to blame, for what they say is toxic. Also women don't get a say in what is and isn't masculine or toxic about it because they aren't men. They don't know the struggles or issues men go through. And you've already proved that in past comments. Men don't get to decide what is and isn't lady like anymore than women get to decide what is and isn't masculine.
Opinion Owner

1 mo
Thank you for mho x

Answer 65

Opinion Owner

What I hate the most about this is people won't read this and think, this has to stop they will read it and think how can I perfect it.
He was a freeloader that yes although he had a job he had no morals and lacked all sense of honour. Anyone that reads this and views his life as a #goal really deserves to rot in hell. As I hope he is.
The thing with him is that he actually came from a good home. But because he laughed and smiled, he thinks that's acceptable. It's not! I just hope that anyone else doing crap like this pays before death.

Answer 66

nathanp97

Being a bad parent isn't exclusive to men, so is this toxic masculinity or just a bad parent?

Answer 67

Opinion Owner

This kind of behaviour was highlighting an experience I had with a toxic man that had poor parenting skills, exploited many people and that wasn't exclusive to just women, he had an over inflated opinion of himself and always try to dominate every space he was in. He shot down any one with a differing opinion to his own, and respect very little and very few.
His world was very selfish and entitled. His assertion always came at the expense of someone else. That is toxic masculinity.

Answer 68

nathanp97

Lol women do that too. Why is this negative stuff always labeled masculine? Shouldn't it be men who decide what is and isn't masculine. How would you like if men started telling women what is and isn't lady like and what is and isn't toxic? Oh wait. Men have already done that and women have said they don't like it.

Answer 69

Novacane

@nathanp97 I agree there are more women I've seen do this compared to men, that just a horrible person overall, and to the OP sorry that you had to go through that, yes he was a toxic man but not really "toxic masculinity" that's more just being a horrible parent and horrible husband, hope you guys healed from that and moved on to better things.

Answer 70

Opinion Owner

Because its having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men.
The biggest one being, being unapologetically you. As a man you can be whatever whomever and conduct yourself however and you're respected simply because you are a man. It doesn't matter if your existence and all you stand for is hurtful and destructive, the mans word is final. And that is why it is toxic that is why I used the example of my family and my father who when I asked him why he did the things he did, his response was, "because I can". To have that level of power and use it for the shit he did is a waste.
And that is - Toxic masculinity!

Answer 71

nathanp97

Traditionally, doesn't mean currently. As women do it to it shouldn't be viewed as a male only thing, that's would be called sexist wouldn't it? Also feminists seem to be big on getting rid of terms like fireman and replacing it with fireperson, so why do they create and propetuate terms like toxic masculinity? Seems hypocritical to me. Yes, I realized I went slightly off topic.

That's a lie. I don't think women, who aren't men, should be telling people what men can do and that they are respected for it. Have you looked on social media women get praised for everything, even being obesed. Men who are fat are often shames and so they make fun of them selves to avoid it. Also a man can't act like himself because if he cries he is often judged by people including women, and can't even be near kids that aren't his without people thinking he is a child preditor.

Answer 72

Novacane

I agree in no way was I saying you are wrong, just sticking to the traditional "masculinity" which is men imposing other men to be a certain way, so yes you are right him being a man and saying he can do whatever he wants is masculinity, but from your personal story, where I live I've seen more women with those behaviors than men, they say they claim they can do it because they can and they need to be worshipped. But I won't link that being toxic femininity, that overall experience is more just being a horrible human being overall.

Answer 73

Opinion Owner

I'm getting the feeling Nathan that rather than looking at the behaviour I've expressed creates the toxicity you are more interested in pointing the finger. I cannot speak for every woman or man. I used my father as an example because I dealt with this first hand. I hope someone else can share with you what they feel and it relates matches because right now I'm feeling like this is more personal to you

Answer 74

nathanp97

I'm not saying what he did isn't toxic, but his behavior isn't specific to men, but by saying toxic masculinity you are suggesting otherwise, which is sexist. You are saying these specific negative traits are male traits. Do you not see an issue with that?

Answer 75

Opinion Owner

No I do not. We are allowed to have differing opinions on this. In my experience this is the behaviour of men not women. There are users in every sense of the world but in this particular instance this is toxic masculinity. Calling me a lesbian just because I didn't succumb to his "charm/flattery"

Answer 76

nathanp97

Who called you a lesbian? My argument is around more of the word then anything else. I agree he is toxic, but as toxicity isn't a male only trait specifying masculinity is kinda sexist.

Answer 77

Opinion Owner

Unfortunately for the population you don't really get a say in this since women are usually the ones that grow and nurture young men. They have the ability to guide young men into becoming decent humans and there are a lot of young men growing up and seeing how toxic certain behaviour actually is. All this protesting and talking about it is for the ones already fully grown, refusing to make way or changes. The future doesn't allow for cold, dismissive men, with over inflated egos that need to divide and conquer everything.

Answer 78

nathanp97

If women are the ones raising men they are the ones to blame, for what they say is toxic. Also women don't get a say in what is and isn't masculine or toxic about it because they aren't men. They don't know the struggles or issues men go through. And you've already proved that in past comments. Men don't get to decide what is and isn't lady like anymore than women get to decide what is and isn't masculine.

Answer 79

Opinion Owner

Thank you for mho x

Answer 80

Starrk | 540 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Yoda

Toxic Masculinity does exist.

Despite the term evoking a lot of anger from many men, most people don't even understand what the term means. They see the word "toxic" and "masculinity" together and they quickly go into defense mode and reject it without even taking the time to understand it. They automatically assume the term is attacking men when in actuality it's trying to help them by trying to free them from the shackles of toxic gender roles.

Toxic Masculinity in its most basic definition is when men embrace a hyper form of stereotypically masculine traits that harm not only others but also themselves. A prime example of toxic masculinity harming men comes in the form of suicide. Men are 4 times more likely to commit suicide in the USA when compared to women (globally, it's 2 times more likely). The vast majority of gun-related deaths in the US are not homicide, but suicides, and men account for the overwhelming majority of these suicide death.

Why? Well, one explanation is because men are more likely to repress their emotions (stoicism), and repressing one's emotions is correlated with a higher chance of experiencing stress and depression. Men are more likely to repress their emotions and feelings, especially to others, because it's viewed as a sign of being weak or "a pussy" or feminine. When your image of being viewed as a "real man" takes precedent over your health, life, and happiness, then that's toxic masculinity at play.

Kingofkings1992

1 mo
This guy gets it

Answer 81

Kingofkings1992

This guy gets it

Answer 82

MCheetah | 776 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Guru

No it doesn't exist at all. That's just called being a jerk (or "an asshole") and it's gender neutral. But the assholes and jerks who use terms like "toxic masculinity" never want to exist women can be terrible, too. Gossiping, name-calling, body shaming, slut shaming, penis shaming, pregnancy shaming, single parent shaming, ex stalking, etc.

These people think ALL masculinity is "toxic" and want men to be as effeminate, spineless, weak, and beta as possible, and then call it "proper masculinity" despite the absence of it. Being a jerk isn't exclusive to men, and I have no patience for idiots who seem to think "toxic masculinity" is actually a thing.

At least they're useful for some good memes, though.

MCheetah

1 mo
*never want to admit

Answer 83

MCheetah

*never want to admit

Answer 84

razelove | 383 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Influencer

Well, my blood, semen and saliva aren't corrosive or poisonous, nor have I met any other guy who has that issue, so I find it difficult to believe in a toxin that can't be isolated, measured, weighed or observed.

Answer 85

OlderAndWiser | 5K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Influencer

It's one more bullshit term that was invented to put men "in their place" and assert female superiority.

Answer 86

ADFSDF1996 | 1.8K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Influencer

It doesn’t exist, it’s just radical leftist pseudoscience.

Answer 87

HiveBee

Xper 4

I think the fact that society aims to impose any value judgement on men or women is toxic in and of itself. Its not toxic masculinity in my opinion. Its toxic society.

We all have to live our own lives, in pursuit of out own individual happiness. And this fact applies to all men and women equally.

Its not good for either sex to be pigeonholed into any of society's gendered expectations.

If a man wishes to protect his wife and provide for his family, he does so through his own rational choice.

If a woman wants to be a stay at home mom and take care of her family while her husband works. It should be as a result of her own rational choice.

The idea that men or women have pre determined roles in my opinion is what is toxic and it applies to both men and women and hurts us both.

Separating out "toxic masculinity" in my opinion is incorrect. Society as a whole is wrong to try to force men or women into any role or code.

All that matters it the rational mind and each person's individual choices.

Answer 88

Nottoxic

Xper 3

I would say that it does exist, however it is majorly misused and misunderstood. I think that a lot of people use it as a way to group and suppress men, though these people are still in the minority.

I would seriously recommend a documentary to everyone on this forum call 'The Mask You Live In' you can find it on YouTube for free.

This is a summary from its IMDb page:

'Explores how our culture' s narrow definition of masculinity is harming our boys, men and society at large and unveils what we can do about it.'

I could really relate to this documentary, as will probably all men. I feel it would really open up others eyes to how society shapes men.

Answer 89

Inexpensivefurniture | 175 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Explorer

Toxic masculinity is things like boys being told they can't cry or be feminine or like things made for girls because it makes them weak. It's guys being made to feel like they can't ask for help, seek out therapy, or admit they have mental health problems. It's guys who are emotionally immature because the only strong emotion they are allowed to express is anger. It's guys basing their worth on how manly they are and constantly feeling like they are competing with other men to be the toughest. It's shaming men who were abused and telling them they should have been strong enough to protect themselves. Basically it's forcing men to a standard that isn't attainable. And I think it needs to be addressed

Answer 90

SomeGuyCalledTom | 536 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Yoda

The reason I don't like terms like "toxic masculinity" is that they're so loosely defined, their meaning can be twisted to suit any speaker's agenda. Any behavior coming from any subset of the male population can just be loosely described as "toxic masculinity", rather than actually digging in to the particulars of the behavior itself. I've legitimately seen two different feminists, on two different occasions, say that "a man who holds doors open for women is displaying toxic masculinity", while the other feminist said "a man who doesn't hold doors open for women has toxic masculinity". We literally can't win no matter what we do, because anything we do can be interpreted as "toxic masculinity". It's the ultimate copout term, that can describe anything, and therefore means nothing.

Answer 91

CriticalDiscourse

Xper 6

If you ever felt like you were a pussy if you dared to cried or justified being violent/aggressive as "simply being a man: you've had toxic masculinity. If you've ever felt like mental health services aren't made for you because you need to "toughen up," or justified being sexually aggressive with a woman despite her being uninterested, you've experienced toxic masculinity.

You may have had one, two, or none of these experiences and still had toxic masculinity. It IS a thing.

Answer 92

loveslongnails | 2.1K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Guru

Seems that "your generation" has to have a "term" for everything so it can be labeled and put in a box. Even calling someone an SJW is a "toxic" term if you apply the same principle as the one associated with "toxic masculinity". The assumption is that SJW's only fight for fringe or crazy causes, and not against basic injustice or discrimination. That connotation is wrong, misleading and because of that, "toxic" as well.

Anyway, back to masculinity. I see it as a term that applies to a view of what is manly, and those who hold it do not think it extreme at all. But as with any point of view, some of the believers will find all non-believers to be ignorant, less than, and the case of masculinity, to be effeminate. This is nothing new or surprising - many guys have always been like that. Now there's a Generation Z name for it.

Answer 93

shade_19

Xper 5

Ur opinion makes sense.
There r assholes in religions, who kill those who don't follow their religion
There r assholes in politics, corrupting and hiding truth no matter what it takes
There r assholes in white people, we call them racists... there r asshole in black people we call them rapists, there r assholes in Asians that have lot of examples
There r assholes in men it's toxic muscularity or fukbois
There r assholes in females, that is toxic feminism that r Karens (but we have generalised them as feminists)
A toxic man will try to control u physically.
A toxic woman will try to control one by emotional blackmails or by twisting government laws and privileges
people do teach these things to generations thus making a culture but many learn these shit by themselves and can't blame them either
If u find anyone toxic, just stay away from them

shade_19

1 mo
But toxic muscularity can be seen in cucks who try to look as alphas, that r insecure and psycho
But there is always someone who wants to overpower the others (it's doesn't bully anyone necessarily specific) ... so it exists but not definitely as muscularity only

Answer 94

shade_19

But toxic muscularity can be seen in cucks who try to look as alphas, that r insecure and psycho
But there is always someone who wants to overpower the others (it's doesn't bully anyone necessarily specific) ... so it exists but not definitely as muscularity only

Answer 95

what3ver

Xper 4

I think it primarily relates to repression of emotions/unwillingness to face your emotions due to the perception that emotions somehow make you less masculine, resulting in stunted cognitive development and emotional immaturity that ultimately makes you a slave to your emotional impulses.

For example, my step dad is super repressed. He was really sad when the Chiefs lost the Superbowl, but he couldn't face his sadness or even admit to himself that he was disappointed, so instead, he expressed his sadness as anger because anger is considered a more "masculine" emotion. He could've just admitted he was disappointed and dealt with it, which could have been really simple since it was a minor problem. Instead, he was irritable, impatient, and an overall annoying jackass for the rest of the night. And this was just over a football game! I can't imagine what he's like when he feels disrespected or offended by something my mom says or does.

Answer 96

Anonymous

It's an unnecessary (but intentional) conflation of two completely different ideas. There is masculinity, femininity, and toxicity. By labeling it "toxic masculinity", the semantic undertones make you think men are the only ones capable of toxicity, or that toxicity among women isn't a problem.

Masculinity isn't toxic. Toxicity isn't masculine. You can be both, but they're unrelated. For instance, you can be strong and confident without trying to force every situation to revolve around you. You can have high self-esteem without putting others down. Same can be said for femininity.

Answer 97

DiscomfortZone | 378 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Explorer

I support your opinion completely, about assholes coming in all genders and shapes. That's why I do believe toxic masculinity exists, just like toxic femininity and toxic african-american, etc. The way I see, the gender roles and gender relations that still exist in modern society afford males and females certain exclusive ways of being toxic, so a man wouldn't be "toxic" the same way a woman would. There ate of course shares common ways, but some are simply not. However, the feminazis (and their simp slaves) who use the term "toxic masculinity" same as they use "mysogynist" or "incel" (i. e a man who dares not give in to feminazi terrorism and extortion) and deny the existence of actual toxic femininity are nothing but gatbage.

Answer 98

PlaticXrealityx

Xper 4

It exists. But masculinity can exist without being toxic. In my opinion a problem these days is that a lot of people have a black and white mindset. Meaning a non toxic masculine man has to be not masculine at all. I see this a lot on social media. Obviously a man doesn’t have to be masculine if he is not, but a man being masculine doesn’t mean he’s being toxic.

But then again it’s objective what one considers masculine. To me it’s how one acts and thinks. Which also means a man who’s considered feminine by society can still be masculine. Grey areas exist.

Answer 99

theonlyfemboy

Xper 4

It's complicated and depends on how you look at things. There's a toxic side to every culture. You could see the toxic side of masculinity as toxic masculinity, or just some masculine people being dicks, same as how you could see the toxic side of femininity as toxic femininity, or just some feminine people being dicks. I tend to see it as people being dicks (because a woman could also express masculinity and therefore toxic masculinity, same with men expressing femininity), but I still do understand what problem people mean when discussing toxic masculinity. It exists because we made it exist, it's important to understand what people mean by it, that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to see it as what it truly is, which in my view, is the fight to get rid of douchebags.

Answer 100

Snakeyes7 | 1.8K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Yoda

It doesn't exist.

What people call toxic masculinity has nothing to do with masculinity. Violent outbursts for example, are the opposite of masculine because it demonstrates lack of impulse control which is what stoicism is for; remaining calm and collected even if the world is falling apart, enabling you to make rational decisions to get yourself out of situations.

Also, the name makes no sense especially when it is used to talk about certain parts of masculinity not in its entirety. In the context of chemicals, any chemical can be toxic if a certain amount of it is used in a short amount of time, overdosing on painkillers for example. Toxic in masculinity's case is a misuse of the word as that would imply that any amount of masculinity, regardless of how positive the aspect of it is, will cause damage to the body or be fatal.

Answer 101

andreasderjuengere | 3.1K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Guru

''Toxic'' is a trend word; I expect it to disappear soon enough.
It attempts to describe unwanted or harmful behaviour of certain men.

But to call it ''toxic masculinity'' sounds more... ''hip'' :D

For the third time today I herewith promote my catchphrase: 'Intellectual Diarrhoea'

Answer 102

Anonymous

The irony of the term "toxic masculinity" is that the feminists who push the term are some of the most prolific examples of the behavior. You are 100% correct that there is no such thing as toxic masculinity, only toxic behavior, and both men and women do it. Calling it toxic masculinity is just another way that feminism attempts to divide the sexes. The user who posted the question you referred to is a great example of that. She has been one of the most toxic and divisive users on GAG for a long time. She took a break for a while but returned recently to pick up where she left off and continue trying to divide the male and female users of GAG.

@Aphrodite801

Opinion Owner

1 mo
Another example: @NorthwestRider She is a woman pretending to be a man on GAG so she can spread her anti-male garbage here daily. She's the embodiment of the behavior feminists refer to as toxic masculinity, and yet she is a woman. It's toxic behavior, regardless of who does it, and trying to ascribe it to one gender is just typical feminist sexism.

Answer 103

Opinion Owner

Another example: @NorthwestRider She is a woman pretending to be a man on GAG so she can spread her anti-male garbage here daily. She's the embodiment of the behavior feminists refer to as toxic masculinity, and yet she is a woman. It's toxic behavior, regardless of who does it, and trying to ascribe it to one gender is just typical feminist sexism.

Answer 104

Lynx122 | 412 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Guru

I don't really believe in it I can understand what they want to say but I believe most of the stuff they talk about is just immaturity. Guys are often more polarizing and controversial and also less socially adjusted than girls. So it's easy to pick some things apart.

Answer 105

hhH2traveler

Xper 4

Toxic masculinity is more other men creating a culture where good men can't be good. Like maybe a girl opening a door for a man behind her but the mans friends say “dont walk through that door, thats unmanly, you dont need to be taken care of” and stuff like that, its a really basic example.

Answer 106

KeiaYamada

Xper 4

Yes, toxic masculinity exists, same as toxic femininity.

iAMtheT0ASTER

1 mo
I like how you're willing to see problems on both sides.

Answer 107

iAMtheT0ASTER

I like how you're willing to see problems on both sides.

Answer 108

SouthWest3

Xper 2

It kind of exists, but it's been overused. It's DEFINITELY not as bad as some make it out, because if you're a 6'4" man who prefers to handle things himself a land whale that weighs so much her fingers turn purple will say that it's toxic masculinity. Traditional masculinity isn't toxic, but some CAN take it too far, though I prefer to just call them "dickheads"

Answer 109

DrunkAss | 179 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Yoda

I think it does exist when a man lacks a proper father figure in the home although I dislike the terminology. For example, if someone thinks being dominant is bossing people around rather than protecting them, probably they weren't taught right.

DrunkAss

1 mo
The cure also for toxic masculinity is more masculinity.
DrunkAss

1 mo
It's also more like "toxic femininity" anyway. It's more feminine than masculine, like a man more concerned about his own image than his character, a man who is materialistic and flashes bling-bling more than caring about deeper things, a man who acts tough more than being tough, etc.
DrunkAss

1 mo
... a man who lifts weights to look good in his selfies more than to be strong and healthy, etc. etc. etc. This is like being a stereotypical woman. It's "toxic femininity". It's not masculinity.

Answer 110

DrunkAss

The cure also for toxic masculinity is more masculinity.

Answer 111

DrunkAss

It's also more like "toxic femininity" anyway. It's more feminine than masculine, like a man more concerned about his own image than his character, a man who is materialistic and flashes bling-bling more than caring about deeper things, a man who acts tough more than being tough, etc.

Answer 112

DrunkAss

... a man who lifts weights to look good in his selfies more than to be strong and healthy, etc. etc. etc. This is like being a stereotypical woman. It's "toxic femininity". It's not masculinity.

Answer 113

Toast792

Xper 5

It's actually extremely rare nowadays. Like, there are only a tiny handful of people. The reason we hear about it so much, is because a lot of people want another reason to play the 'victim' . People in general, however, can be extremely toxic.

Answer 114

TOTEMPLASTER | 220 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Xper 6

The phrase is basically feminist BS to describe a guy who is a loud-mouthed bully. The appropriate descriptive work has been around for centuries and is still accurate and relevant: that word is "Jerk". All the blather about the 'toxicity' is the inane babbling of the undereducated and the immature.

Answer 115

Anonymous

Yeah I probably agree with the guy in your screenshot. I don't like this term "toxic masculinity" It's very opinioned. What may be toxic to some, may be sexy to others. And just because something is toxic it doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. I personally prefer to just say, "Different people have different opinions of what a real man is", and that's they're right. Like the screenshot guy said, there are just assholes.

iAMtheT0ASTER

1 mo
The guy in the screenshot is me.
Opinion Owner

1 mo
Oh, I agree with you then

Answer 116

iAMtheT0ASTER

The guy in the screenshot is me.

Answer 117

Opinion Owner

Oh, I agree with you then

Answer 118

ImNotARobber

Xper 1

Just another bogus concept used by WHITE WOMEN to justify the stupid idea that they're the most oppressed living beings the world has ever seen and demonize all men as a bonus, something quite amusing for girls who hate their fathers and ex-boyfriends.

In a few words, toxic masculinity is when a man doesn't do as white women say.

Answer 119

hahahmm | 656 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Guru

It's something some women say to try and force men to give them everything that they wish for. If men actually gave women everything they say they want. then men will become exactly like women and society will collapse. Someone has to keep the power plants, sewage plants, water plants, construction and many, many other jobs going that women by their nature aren't interested in (okay, maybe 0.5% are).

Answer 120

MillenniumBill

Xper 6

They dont even know what it is for fucks sake! It just seems to be convenient to define it on a case-by-case basis in order to fit the gynocentric narrative.

Answer 121

Nalix | 333 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Xper 6

Toxicity exists, and there are types of toxicity more commonly associated with women while other types of toxicity are more associated with men, but to say that any kind of toxicity is uniquely feminine or masculine is silly.

Answer 122

Anonymous

"Toxic masculinity" is a term created by men who opposed feminism. They though feminists were trying to make men feminine so they retreated to fish and do "manly" things lmaoNow toxic masculinity refers to undesirable traits and behaviors associated positively with masculinity like violence and suppressing emotions

Opinion Owner

1 mo

Answer 123

Opinion Owner

Does Toxic Masculinity really exist? What is Toxic Masculinity?

Answer 124

DCooper | 462 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Xper 7

Like this? https://www.youtube.com/embed/1glqfOqjNms

Answer 125

genericname85 | 2.5K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Master

no, it's not. it's a feminazi/sjw bullshit term made up to basically silence the large majority of people. just like this new wave of racism against white poeple that's going on right now.

Answer 126

R3DthatDude | 435 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Yoda

To me what they are calling toxic masculinity isn’t actually masculine at all it’s toxic bravado. It get tired of seeing and hearing toxic masculinity, that’s like saying toxic healthiness

Answer 127

monkeynutts | 1.2K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Guru

I will mansplain it like this, there are two types of people in this world, those that get fucked, and those that do the fucking. It’s not our fault that some people don’t like being fucked.

Answer 128

Becky316

Xper 5

While some guys are assholes, some are kinda sweet and nice. Yet they are still a guy.

Answer 129

hopegirly

Xper 6

It does not exist. People say that because they are trying to make men effeminate and destroying the male’a nature (strong, protector...)

Answer 130

007kingifrit | 1.3K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Explorer

its a stupid term. we already had the term "immaturity" which covered the same concept without needing to be as divisive

Answer 131

aliali8

Xper 4

i don't think toxic masculinity exists anymore. Most men are completely fine being beta males. most men in our society are betas.

HiveBee

1 mo
They are fine until they realize that it hurts their chances of being with women, or results in their only option to be with a woman is through her exploiting him for his resources.

Then again a lot of these red pill dating guys are teaching men to be beta male providers and run beta Male provider "game" by teaching men they have to "be on their purpose" and have money and all this to attract women.

I think most men resent that kind of life and would rather have real and genuine love.
aliali8

1 mo
@HiveBee hun. I think you have been online way too much and have no real dating experience with women. Being an alpha certainly attracts more women, but it can't make a woman fall for you. I wouldn't care if my soulmate was a beta or alpha, I only care about what qualifies him to be my soulmate. Beta/alpha is really second priority to personality.

I need a guy who is funny and charismatic. I wouldn't give a shit if he's not as alpha as some other dude. As long as he can make me laugh, i am happy.
HiveBee

1 mo
I wish I could say you were right. But my view comes from real life women. They taught me more than anything.

That's why guys dont believe what you said. We wish we were valued for being ourselves. But in the real world we see which guys girls go for. And they are the opposite of genuine people expressing their real selves.

The guys who get the girls they want, are weirdos with fake personalities designed to "get girls."

They're stupid, uninteresting, shallow, boring people. But girls swoon over them because they create this bizarre "alpha" personality.

And the rest of us guys see that. And we realize we have to be fake to be attractive to girls. Or so that's what we believe anyways through experience.
Show All Show Less
HiveBee

1 mo
I mean I think guys should just be themselves. Learn to be their real selves instead of being fake.

But we look to those men who are successful and learn from them. And so men will not go down the path of genuine self expression, because practically, it doesn't work as well as creating a fake alpha persona.
HiveBee

1 mo
We see it in real life, and then take to the internet in hopes of understanding why it's like this. I dont think the internet helps. I dont think the dating advice and the red pill and the "alpha Male strategies" is good for anyone.

But then again, it kinda works. Just learn to act alpha and you'll go from a single dateless guy to having lots of dates.

A guy being his genuine self just isn't a good strategy.

Answer 132

HiveBee

They are fine until they realize that it hurts their chances of being with women, or results in their only option to be with a woman is through her exploiting him for his resources.

Then again a lot of these red pill dating guys are teaching men to be beta male providers and run beta Male provider "game" by teaching men they have to "be on their purpose" and have money and all this to attract women.

I think most men resent that kind of life and would rather have real and genuine love.

Answer 133

aliali8

@HiveBee hun. I think you have been online way too much and have no real dating experience with women. Being an alpha certainly attracts more women, but it can't make a woman fall for you. I wouldn't care if my soulmate was a beta or alpha, I only care about what qualifies him to be my soulmate. Beta/alpha is really second priority to personality.

I need a guy who is funny and charismatic. I wouldn't give a shit if he's not as alpha as some other dude. As long as he can make me laugh, i am happy.

Answer 134

HiveBee

I wish I could say you were right. But my view comes from real life women. They taught me more than anything.

That's why guys dont believe what you said. We wish we were valued for being ourselves. But in the real world we see which guys girls go for. And they are the opposite of genuine people expressing their real selves.

The guys who get the girls they want, are weirdos with fake personalities designed to "get girls."

They're stupid, uninteresting, shallow, boring people. But girls swoon over them because they create this bizarre "alpha" personality.

And the rest of us guys see that. And we realize we have to be fake to be attractive to girls. Or so that's what we believe anyways through experience.

Answer 135

HiveBee

I mean I think guys should just be themselves. Learn to be their real selves instead of being fake.

But we look to those men who are successful and learn from them. And so men will not go down the path of genuine self expression, because practically, it doesn't work as well as creating a fake alpha persona.

Answer 136

HiveBee

We see it in real life, and then take to the internet in hopes of understanding why it's like this. I dont think the internet helps. I dont think the dating advice and the red pill and the "alpha Male strategies" is good for anyone.

But then again, it kinda works. Just learn to act alpha and you'll go from a single dateless guy to having lots of dates.

A guy being his genuine self just isn't a good strategy.

Answer 137

Archerer | 275 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Xper 6

Of course it exists...

Do you believe masculinity exists? Then so does toxic masculinity...

Answer 138

Massageman | 2.4K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Master

LIke most of this socialist stuff, it's just a bs piece of fake "news".

Answer 139

ik9999 | 77 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Xper 5

If something is toxic, it'd be personality.
Ps. I forgot female are pure and perfect 🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂

Answer 140

_no_one_ | 330 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Explorer

Ykw 'Toxic masculinity' was a term actually created by some male rights activist and it's meaning wasn't really what it's shown these days. It's just people being toxic. Ain't no one is forcing anyone to believe in any stereotypical bs.

Answer 141

Anonymous

It doesn't exist. It's a libtard concept that self-loathing snowflakes came up with to draw attention to themselves.

"Look at me, I'm more woke than you are!"

"No you're not, because I believe in white fragility!"

Answer 142

Anonymous

Toxic masculinity doesn't exist
It's Twitter wanting to kill all men as per usual

Answer 143

OddBeMe | 7.4K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Guru

toxicity exists in humanity. undeniable. men have more opportunity to wield it is all.

Answer 144

Anpu23 | 1.5K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Guru

It's based on a series of profound misunderstandings of natural and healthy male behaviors. And has become a bludgeon used to shame men into unnatural and probably unproductive emotional responses.

Answer 145

NorthwestRider | 3.2K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Guru

It exist, just look at the religious nuts who treat women like shit

Answer 146

HikerDude | 302 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Yoda

No such thing as "toxic masculinity," any more than there's a thing called "toxic blackness." It's just made-up garbage meant to smear and emasculate men.

Answer 147

worldscolide | 2.6K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Master

It's an invention of the left used to silence men who disagree, or shame men that like traditional masculine things no more no less.

worldscolide

1 mo
I'm glad those of us with a brain voted the same as me..

Answer 148

worldscolide

I'm glad those of us with a brain voted the same as me..

Answer 149

EternallyCorrect | 81 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Xper 5

The only people who say that it exists are unattractive women and girly-men.

Answer 150

AllThatSweetJazz | 2.4K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Guru

There's toxic everything, or rather we can just say there's toxicity. Focusing on masculinity is just ideological manipulation.

Answer 151

treehouse90

Xper 4

Yes, it does exist! It puts not only the females under pressure but males also.

Answer 152

Browneye57 | 2.1K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Master

It's feminist made up bullshit cuz they hate men. Just be a real man and ignore these idiots.

Answer 153

Waldoe | 752 opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Yoda

It's just another case of "Hate Speech" coming from the Bitter, Feminist Crowd... be a "Lady" get a "Man"

Answer 154

Jersey2 | 1.5K opinions shared on Society & Politics topic.

Yoda

It’s made up bullshit by women who want men to act like women... unless it’s their boyfriend.

Answer 155

Anonymous

It exists as a excuse for feminazis to hate on men. Its a term defenided by SJWs to attack men who has not done anything wrong.

Answer 156

Anonymous

There is no such thing as toxic masculinity - it's just another way feminists trash men.

Answer 157

gazza_of_cyzicus

Xper 5

Toxic masculinity doesn't exist.

Answer 158

Ivanhunter

Xper 5

There’s no such thing as Toxic Masculinity

Does Toxic Masculinity really exist? What is Toxic Masculinity?

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