Does Toxic Masculinity really exist? What is Toxic Masculinity?

[iAMtheT0ASTER]

Recently there was a question about how to curve Toxic Masculinity and my opinion got quite a bit of dislikes.

You can't say that my opinion is completely wrong, assholes do come in all forms. I've always thought that Toxic Masculinity was a made-up term from Twitter SJWs, but it seems that people actually see Toxic Masculinity as an actual issue. I don't know what Toxic Masculinity really is since there are too many definitions for it. Let's have an open discussion, anonymity is turned on, and I will not call anyone any names. Maybe some of you can open my mind a little about this.

Toxic Masculinity Does Exist

Vote A

Toxic Masculinity Does Not Exist

Vote B

Updates:

[btbc92]

It does exist. And I can safely give such examples besides the video I found that actually speaks one's thoughts! But I want to point out it is MORE than just repressed emotions or inability to handle it appropriately and healthier, but the concept of what a man is in the minds of men and even some women as opposed to what God called a man. Even with that, most today do not understand this. You can think sin nature and lies about how to carry oneself by the system for that. Also as a bonus, understand that there is such thing as TOXIC femininity also. Not just by my own personal experiences, but by reading, listening, and witnessing that of others. Seriously, I need to make a MyTake. This is a long long READ. Please read everything before commenting or trying to debate!!! Gentlemen, especially I WANT TO MAKE THIS VERY CLEAR TO YOU! Do not be afraid to CHANGE! I will also address the still of the user who said about the men who are naturally a*holes. We'll get there. But I don't want to cause confusion. I want to address this first.

1. It is a form of abuse stemming from people who want systematic control. Think of Pharisees and Sadducees, the mentality of Xerxes when he had Vashti before Esther and how she was treated, The mentality of many religions such as Islam, Asian countries, middle ages in general. Greek and Roman standards Egyptian, etc.

2. Toxic masculinity is a form of bullying, control, abuse, social conditioning, fearmongering, and repression. Let's look @ how this affects a man, then the females (As this applies to all stages of a woman, child, teen, adult, senior, even female dogs/animals (not B's, actual animals).

2a: Men are taught to be aggressive, tough, and show no emotions. Taught not to cry, etc. Sadly, we women who are taught of these are also GUILTY! There are some personality types, if you go by MBTI, like INFP, INFJ, ISFP, ESFP, INTP to some degree, even some you wouldn't think ISTP, ESTJ, ISTJ, ENFP, etc are emotionally SENSITIVE! I have "heard and seen" some women, especially with no healthy father figure are very aggressive with their boys and shame them from crying, leave them to walk on their own as toddlers, sometimes curse at their kids in frustration! Men of course also do that and used to do that. But women now are even WORSE! I was treated like that as a little girl by my own father. And it hurt! My dogs get the same treatment! Calling my girl dog his "b*itch"? Her brother a "p*ssy"? "punk"? This is not only abusive but UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR! No matter who does it. Any female that finds this okay is not a woman, but a female who is masculine. Period. Women don't do this. It is LEARNED by environmental factors and conditioning.

2b: Men are conditioned to treat women as LESS. If she speaks out of turn, his response is either slap her, curse at her, or demean her. Say she is a nag and how he wants to be left alone or how she is disrespectful. She is not treated as an equal, she is seen as a child and even LESS. If she expresses herself, the response is: she is "too emotional" and you ignore her because she isn't "rational" right now. If she is too quiet, then she is either giving him the silent treatment or seen as disrespectful because she won't answer. Guess who emulates the behavior now? The women, now! How a man treats her, or even what she sees with her own mother, and her mother does the same, she will shape that as her IDENTITY, and do that to OTHER WOMEN. Even her own daughter. Or vice versa, her own mother. It's ABUSE. I'm now learning and seeing this for myself. It's WRONG and it's TOXIC. A woman is under a man's CARE. But she should not be treated as LESS. This was considered MANLY we are not talking about men who are NATURALLY A*holes. Even they would have been disciplined by the utilitarian. You have to study this. Both sociology, psychology, philosophy, etc. It is ALL CONNECTED.

[Anonymous]

Toxic masculinity lived in my home. It worked like this. My father was self employed and selfish. He lived alone but stayed at my mums 4 days a week. He didn't help my mum with me, in terms of childcare or bills. But he often asked my mum for help. She used to do his accounts and his invoices etc. Until one day that stopped (probably earning too much or couldn't hide money)
He took at least 2 holidays a year sometimes he travelled 6 weeks at a time. Whilst mum and I stayed here. He went away for 6 months once.
He criticised my mum, he took the piss out of her basically because he conditionsd her and put her under a lot of stress and strain.
He pressured my mum to buy food shopping for him, larger appliances that she really couldn't afford under the guise that he was going to help. But in the end what he did was left her to pay the bills.
He wanted to appear to be the Head of the house whilst doing f all except just "grace us" with his presence.
I hated him, him and I hated how he took advantage of mum.
I hated how little attention he showed me and how little he truly cared for my education. Anything really.
He made it clear that nothing was of interest to him, unless it made him look good. All the things I was good, at he critised and mocked me for until someone else took an interest in it.
He would log in to my computer after acting like my music was crap and burn cds of them to play in his car. Usually bragging about how great extensive his library is.
I remember struggling with maths he promised my mum he'd help me, but I guess because I was so desperate for his attention, I didn't really understand him simply because I wanted his time. Anyways he wall off and talk on his phone until he years my mum come home, the rush back and stand over me as If he was helping.
The occasions where I spoke out about what he was doing. My mum asked me if I was "sure" my dad would corner me and intimidate me, threatening me not to tell.
I realise that my father was spoiled when he grew up and he was raised to have a high opinion of himself, so much so that he was confident and manipulative.
I'm ashamed to say that that was who my father was. And even now after death he is still biting my mum on the ass by having people chase her for money. Simply because he claimed for things that he wasn't entitled to, with the help of some body.
I told my mum straight do not respond to these people or forward it to his brother. Instead she gave in and sent the letter claiming he was deceast now they are writing to the executive of estate. Wtf!

She's not been sleeping and has been crying, because again she's been made a fool of.
I'm ashamed to say that was my father.
Women oh the women that have been an additional part in my father's life.
Irritating asf!
But it's his upbringing. There is something seriously wrong with him.
His brothers the same.
Even now telling my mum what to write, I told her straight, if you do add the brothers forwarding address since he is the one dealing with his estate and since he is the one that took over all the accounts and drained them and even til today is keeping the accounts active.
My father has hurt countless women. Left myself and my mother reeling from his years of abuse, he has had multiple children simply to achieve his desired financial goals with women who were actually quite affluent. He just left a trail of sh*t. Which has only gone on to lead some of his children into really destructive situations of further abuse.
I am tired of this and I'm tired of people and their bullsh*t. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. Yes he may not have raped anyone or forcibly held them against their will but he mentally, emotionally and financially abused women. I can't even write the words I wish to speak of him. Ugh!

[Starrk]

Toxic Masculinity does exist.

Despite the term evoking a lot of anger from many men, most people don't even understand what the term means. They see the word "toxic" and "masculinity" together and they quickly go into defense mode and reject it without even taking the time to understand it. They automatically assume the term is attacking men when in actuality it's trying to help them by trying to free them from the shackles of toxic gender roles.

Toxic Masculinity in its most basic definition is when men embrace a hyper form of stereotypically masculine traits that harm not only others but also themselves. A prime example of toxic masculinity harming men comes in the form of suicide. Men are 4 times more likely to commit suicide in the USA when compared to women (globally, it's 2 times more likely). The vast majority of gun-related deaths in the US are not homicide, but suicides, and men account for the overwhelming majority of these suicide death.

Why? Well, one explanation is because men are more likely to repress their emotions (stoicism), and repressing one's emotions is correlated with a higher chance of experiencing stress and depression. Men are more likely to repress their emotions and feelings, especially to others, because it's viewed as a sign of being weak or "a pussy" or feminine. When your image of being viewed as a "real man" takes precedent over your health, life, and happiness, then that's toxic masculinity at play.

[MCheetah]

No it doesn't exist at all. That's just called being a jerk (or "an asshole") and it's gender neutral. But the assholes and jerks who use terms like "toxic masculinity" never want to exist women can be terrible, too. Gossiping, name-calling, body shaming, slut shaming, penis shaming, pregnancy shaming, single parent shaming, ex stalking, etc.

These people think ALL masculinity is "toxic" and want men to be as effeminate, spineless, weak, and beta as possible, and then call it "proper masculinity" despite the absence of it. Being a jerk isn't exclusive to men, and I have no patience for idiots who seem to think "toxic masculinity" is actually a thing.

At least they're useful for some good memes, though.

[razelove]

Well, my blood, semen and saliva aren't corrosive or poisonous, nor have I met any other guy who has that issue, so I find it difficult to believe in a toxin that can't be isolated, measured, weighed or observed.

[OlderAndWiser]

It's one more bullshit term that was invented to put men "in their place" and assert female superiority.

[ADFSDF1996]

It doesn’t exist, it’s just radical leftist pseudoscience.

[HiveBee]

I think the fact that society aims to impose any value judgement on men or women is toxic in and of itself. Its not toxic masculinity in my opinion. Its toxic society.

We all have to live our own lives, in pursuit of out own individual happiness. And this fact applies to all men and women equally.

Its not good for either sex to be pigeonholed into any of society's gendered expectations.

If a man wishes to protect his wife and provide for his family, he does so through his own rational choice.

If a woman wants to be a stay at home mom and take care of her family while her husband works. It should be as a result of her own rational choice.

The idea that men or women have pre determined roles in my opinion is what is toxic and it applies to both men and women and hurts us both.

Separating out "toxic masculinity" in my opinion is incorrect. Society as a whole is wrong to try to force men or women into any role or code.

All that matters it the rational mind and each person's individual choices.

[Nottoxic]

I would say that it does exist, however it is majorly misused and misunderstood. I think that a lot of people use it as a way to group and suppress men, though these people are still in the minority.

I would seriously recommend a documentary to everyone on this forum call 'The Mask You Live In' you can find it on YouTube for free.

This is a summary from its IMDb page:

'Explores how our culture' s narrow definition of masculinity is harming our boys, men and society at large and unveils what we can do about it.'

I could really relate to this documentary, as will probably all men. I feel it would really open up others eyes to how society shapes men.

[Inexpensivefurniture]

Toxic masculinity is things like boys being told they can't cry or be feminine or like things made for girls because it makes them weak. It's guys being made to feel like they can't ask for help, seek out therapy, or admit they have mental health problems. It's guys who are emotionally immature because the only strong emotion they are allowed to express is anger. It's guys basing their worth on how manly they are and constantly feeling like they are competing with other men to be the toughest. It's shaming men who were abused and telling them they should have been strong enough to protect themselves. Basically it's forcing men to a standard that isn't attainable. And I think it needs to be addressed

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

The reason I don't like terms like "toxic masculinity" is that they're so loosely defined, their meaning can be twisted to suit any speaker's agenda. Any behavior coming from any subset of the male population can just be loosely described as "toxic masculinity", rather than actually digging in to the particulars of the behavior itself. I've legitimately seen two different feminists, on two different occasions, say that "a man who holds doors open for women is displaying toxic masculinity", while the other feminist said "a man who doesn't hold doors open for women has toxic masculinity". We literally can't win no matter what we do, because anything we do can be interpreted as "toxic masculinity". It's the ultimate copout term, that can describe anything, and therefore means nothing.

[CriticalDiscourse]

If you ever felt like you were a pussy if you dared to cried or justified being violent/aggressive as "simply being a man: you've had toxic masculinity. If you've ever felt like mental health services aren't made for you because you need to "toughen up," or justified being sexually aggressive with a woman despite her being uninterested, you've experienced toxic masculinity.

You may have had one, two, or none of these experiences and still had toxic masculinity. It IS a thing.

[shade_19]

Ur opinion makes sense.
There r assholes in religions, who kill those who don't follow their religion
There r assholes in politics, corrupting and hiding truth no matter what it takes
There r assholes in white people, we call them racists... there r asshole in black people we call them rapists, there r assholes in Asians that have lot of examples
There r assholes in men it's toxic muscularity or fukbois
There r assholes in females, that is toxic feminism that r Karens (but we have generalised them as feminists)
A toxic man will try to control u physically.
A toxic woman will try to control one by emotional blackmails or by twisting government laws and privileges
people do teach these things to generations thus making a culture but many learn these shit by themselves and can't blame them either
If u find anyone toxic, just stay away from them

[what3ver]

I think it primarily relates to repression of emotions/unwillingness to face your emotions due to the perception that emotions somehow make you less masculine, resulting in stunted cognitive development and emotional immaturity that ultimately makes you a slave to your emotional impulses.

For example, my step dad is super repressed. He was really sad when the Chiefs lost the Superbowl, but he couldn't face his sadness or even admit to himself that he was disappointed, so instead, he expressed his sadness as anger because anger is considered a more "masculine" emotion. He could've just admitted he was disappointed and dealt with it, which could have been really simple since it was a minor problem. Instead, he was irritable, impatient, and an overall annoying jackass for the rest of the night. And this was just over a football game! I can't imagine what he's like when he feels disrespected or offended by something my mom says or does.

[Anonymous]

Calling it Toxic Masculinity, or claiming Masculinity itself is Toxic promotes prejudice and can damage the mental health of males in general due to the negativity attribed to their existence (especially younger men with anxiety). I have always disliked the term becuase of this.

That said, toxicity is certainly something that exists, and whilst the hormonal and instictual behavious of men can be warped and disfigured in horrible ways - it is not a progression or cause of mascunility itself (the hormonal and instinctual behavirous and features of male humans), but of poor upbrinding and mental illness/disorders.

[loveslongnails]

Seems that "your generation" has to have a "term" for everything so it can be labeled and put in a box. Even calling someone an SJW is a "toxic" term if you apply the same principle as the one associated with "toxic masculinity". The assumption is that SJW's only fight for fringe or crazy causes, and not against basic injustice or discrimination. That connotation is wrong, misleading and because of that, "toxic" as well.

Anyway, back to masculinity. I see it as a term that applies to a view of what is manly, and those who hold it do not think it extreme at all. But as with any point of view, some of the believers will find all non-believers to be ignorant, less than, and the case of masculinity, to be effeminate. This is nothing new or surprising - many guys have always been like that. Now there's a Generation Z name for it.

[DiscomfortZone]

I support your opinion completely, about assholes coming in all genders and shapes. That's why I do believe toxic masculinity exists, just like toxic femininity and toxic african-american, etc. The way I see, the gender roles and gender relations that still exist in modern society afford males and females certain exclusive ways of being toxic, so a man wouldn't be "toxic" the same way a woman would. There ate of course shares common ways, but some are simply not. However, the feminazis (and their simp slaves) who use the term "toxic masculinity" same as they use "mysogynist" or "incel" (i. e a man who dares not give in to feminazi terrorism and extortion) and deny the existence of actual toxic femininity are nothing but gatbage.

[Anonymous]

It's an unnecessary (but intentional) conflation of two completely different ideas. There is masculinity, femininity, and toxicity. By labeling it "toxic masculinity", the semantic undertones make you think men are the only ones capable of toxicity, or that toxicity among women isn't a problem.

Masculinity isn't toxic. Toxicity isn't masculine. You can be both, but they're unrelated. For instance, you can be strong and confident without trying to force every situation to revolve around you. You can have high self-esteem without putting others down. Same can be said for femininity.

[PlaticXrealityx]

It exists. But masculinity can exist without being toxic. In my opinion a problem these days is that a lot of people have a black and white mindset. Meaning a non toxic masculine man has to be not masculine at all. I see this a lot on social media. Obviously a man doesn’t have to be masculine if he is not, but a man being masculine doesn’t mean he’s being toxic.


But then again it’s objective what one considers masculine. To me it’s how one acts and thinks. Which also means a man who’s considered feminine by society can still be masculine. Grey areas exist.

[theonlyfemboy]

It's complicated and depends on how you look at things. There's a toxic side to every culture. You could see the toxic side of masculinity as toxic masculinity, or just some masculine people being dicks, same as how you could see the toxic side of femininity as toxic femininity, or just some feminine people being dicks. I tend to see it as people being dicks (because a woman could also express masculinity and therefore toxic masculinity, same with men expressing femininity), but I still do understand what problem people mean when discussing toxic masculinity. It exists because we made it exist, it's important to understand what people mean by it, that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to see it as what it truly is, which in my view, is the fight to get rid of douchebags.

[Snakeyes7]

It doesn't exist.

What people call toxic masculinity has nothing to do with masculinity. Violent outbursts for example, are the opposite of masculine because it demonstrates lack of impulse control which is what stoicism is for; remaining calm and collected even if the world is falling apart, enabling you to make rational decisions to get yourself out of situations.

Also, the name makes no sense especially when it is used to talk about certain parts of masculinity not in its entirety. In the context of chemicals, any chemical can be toxic if a certain amount of it is used in a short amount of time, overdosing on painkillers for example. Toxic in masculinity's case is a misuse of the word as that would imply that any amount of masculinity, regardless of how positive the aspect of it is, will cause damage to the body or be fatal.

[andreasderjuengere]

''Toxic'' is a trend word; I expect it to disappear soon enough.
It attempts to describe unwanted or harmful behaviour of certain men.

But to call it ''toxic masculinity'' sounds more... ''hip'' :D

For the third time today I herewith promote my catchphrase: 'Intellectual Diarrhoea'

[Anonymous]

The irony of the term "toxic masculinity" is that the feminists who push the term are some of the most prolific examples of the behavior. You are 100% correct that there is no such thing as toxic masculinity, only toxic behavior, and both men and women do it. Calling it toxic masculinity is just another way that feminism attempts to divide the sexes. The user who posted the question you referred to is a great example of that. She has been one of the most toxic and divisive users on GAG for a long time. She took a break for a while but returned recently to pick up where she left off and continue trying to divide the male and female users of GAG.

@Aphrodite801

[Lynx122]

I don't really believe in it I can understand what they want to say but I believe most of the stuff they talk about is just immaturity. Guys are often more polarizing and controversial and also less socially adjusted than girls. So it's easy to pick some things apart.