I have always been pro choice. I don’t see how someone can think they have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body especially if they aren’t the ones who have to raise it... and don’t get me started on the pro lifers who just say ship them off to foster care...
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I understand why some people are pro life but as a rape victim, I couldn’t even imagine what life would be like if I would’ve gotten pregnant from that terrible situation I was put in. I’m definitely pro choice.
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Voted Pro-Life. The British statesman and political philosopher Edmund Burke wrote, "The effect of liberty to individuals is that they may do as they please. We ought see what it will please them to do before we risk congratulations." Therein lay the problem with laws that permit abortion on demand.
A society that premises its law as "Choice"- to use the locution of abortion rights advocates - effectively leaves open the question of the value of human life. It becomes not a standing principle, but a subjective judgment to each individual. In such a society, human life becomes not an end in itself, but mere instrument. Life becomes not an object whose preservation is the highest standard, but rather a convenience to be maintained or not according to the satisfaction of another's will.
We shape our laws and then our laws shape us - see also the civil rights laws of the 1960s which have effected a revolution in race relations. (The idea that a black man and a white man cannot sit together at the same lunch counter is as alien to this generation as Neptune. Yet in 1965 it was pretty much the norm.)
Inherent then in the pro-choice argument is the idea that life has no value save that which each person chooses to attach to it. It denies society any authority to make a collective judgment on such questions. Therefore, in this view, the law may not afford protection to life except at some arbitrarily defined (and inherently subjective) point.
This then conduces to an assertion of power over rights. Life is maintained not as its own end, but according to the will of the person who, effectively, controls it because they can. An ethic of convenience is established and it is a slippery slope on which to build a culture and a legal edifice.
Such a society will not value life that sees life as not an end, but as a means to some other end. Indeed, that is why at about the same time as the culture began to shift on the abortion question we also saw a rise in child abuse, spousal abuse, divorce, out of wedlock births and other social pathologies. These were not unrelated phenomena.
Aristotle said that the first questions of politics are, "How ought we to live? What kind of a people do we wish to be?" The implicit answer of those who support abortion on demand is, in effect, that it is nobody's business. Predictable results follow. One cannot expect the society to absent itself from collective moral judgments on the value of life and then expect an ethical social order to result.As far as politics and laws go, pro-choice, simply because women are still going to seek out abortions, might as well leave open a credible venue. Otherwise more women would simply die or be sterile if they were illegal and back alley.
In my personal life, I love making and raising babies, so pro-life. I already know that if me and my wife got divorced I'd be raising our kids, and I'm fine with that. Probably the most difficult part would be finding another woman and cementing that relationship with more kids lol
Truly though, it's an amazing thing to me, I know it's basic biology, but it seems like a miracle every time :)My body, my choice.
Bodily Rights and Abortion
I still agree with most of thisPro choice. The answer is in the word "Choice". You can even compare "life" to "choice". I believe choice is more important than life.
There are over 7,000,000,000 humans on this planet, choking out other species, destroying their own environment, trampling on each other, selling each other into slavery, raping, murdering, torturing, and generally just being shitheads to each other. This is humanity. They are nothing more than animals, just like tigers, squirrels, chimpanzees, sharks, bees, ants, salmon, etc. The only difference is they have different adaptations giving them huge advantage over other species such as opposable thumbs, ability to remember/learn, and verbal communication.
Life is cheap. Humans demonstrate this 24/7 as they continue to interact with their environment in the most selfish ways possible. Other animals are born, raised and murdered in torturous conditions so humans have something delicious to shove into their faces, to wear on a chilly day, or just for shits and giggles.
Just have a look at how we treat animals.
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Or how humans treat each other. Consistently. Past, present, and foreseeable future.
I don't give two shakes whether another 385,000 babies are born today, or if it's only 384,998. Yes, I get the argument that every life is precious and important and a unique combination of its parents gametes. Disagree. Big whoopty do, there are trillions of possible combinations, but that doesn't mean I want to make them my neighbors.
What's more important than quantity, is quality. In an ideal world, human population would never exceed a billion. Other species would flourish, vast areas would be wild and undeveloped and free of human occupation with their concrete and coffee shops.So spare me the "life is precious" arguments. It's not. It's cheap and degraded daily, even more and more as population continues to grow and people feel more and more alienated from each other, increasingly self-righteous about murdering others or denying them basic human rights.
.I am pro-life , , , that's for me,,, but I'm also pro-choice and I will back any woman it wants to make that choice if all the circumstances are right I don't care who you are in this world it's your body it's your choice that's the bottom line it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks says or does there are moments in time or that has to be the hardest decision in this world and if a woman wants to make that choice I will back her play 100%.
I'm not going to judge somebody for doing what they think they need to do I'm not going to say it's right or if it's wrong for me I know the answers to that or I know my belief but it's my belief only ,
I can tell you something then I'm not proud of whatsoever I know a girl in the Philippines she's 20 years old she got pregnant she's not had any parents she's lived on her own for a very long time she has no money the guy who got her pregnant denied it also his parents did the same thing since I've known her all she's wanting to do his better herself be better than her mother she can't afford a doctor she can't even afford food she asked me for money so she could take a pill that would make her body deny having the baby I talked to her I explained every option to her. I explained what was going to happen after the baby was aborted I went over everything with her over and over and over her choice was she could not take care of baby she did not want to give it up for adoption she did not want to have this baby I gave her the money I didn't like the way that it was going to be done but that was her choice I did research on the pill that she was going to take and I told her is no guarantee did she might have to take more pills well that's what happened I had to send her more money because I did not want her to have that baby. putting the first pill pills in her body it is not working I sent more money she got more pills and she aborted the baby the most disgusting thing I've ever seen in my life she sent me a picture to prove it I was sick right then and there and I'm sick right now to even talking about it a month has gone by with the pills did to her body I don't know if she could ever recoup from she lost a lot of red blood count cells of course now I had to send more money because she needs vitamins and she needs to eat right foods to build up red blood count cells in in her body like I said this is disgusting to me but it is what it is it's her choice nobody else I am pro- life I am also pro-choiceI`m pro life AND pro choice.
I believe the blastocyst/egg/embryo/fetus has the potential to be a human life. And care should be taken to avoid pregnancy by using competent birth control.
The point is that a woman has to decide if she's going to stay pregnant due to her circumstances. There could be health circumstances but 99 percent of the time, the circumstances are economic and situational.
If a woman doesn't have the money, time and support to have a child and isn't old enough to manage it, and by and large the highest number of abortions occur in women around age 19, the second most common women to have abortion are middle class women around age 35.
In the first case it's likely inexperience and carelessness, in the second, more than likely failed birth control.
NO ONE chooses abortion lightly, as just another method of birth control, like the morning after pill. Every woman knows it's a potential life she's snuffing. Yet, they do it because they have other children to care for, are working two jobs, do not have a support system to make another child feasible, are in college, working or both. The list is long and complicated.
A salient point is that some religious groups expect a woman who DOES NOT want to either bear OR deliver a child to be an incubator for and presenter for someone else. And there is no guarantee that the baby delivered will get a permanent home, but may end up in the foster care system permanently, until they age out at 18. Most men in the national penitentiary system are from foster care. It's a terrible fate to dump an unadoptable baby into.
This is an amazing pressure put on very young, pregnant women; guilt. They feel guilty enough that they Got pregnant, now they're told they need to birth their baby to give to someone else. More often than not, those very young women decide to Keep their babies, spiraling them and their child into poverty because the mother never gets a good education or skillset to improve her and her baby's life.
In addition, it is only Before the childbirth that religious groups are interested in the pregnant woman and her child. Afterward there is no placing in housing, no continuing of the girl or woman's education, no financial support to get the woman back on her feet. This is the irony of the whole "protect the innocent." Children are innocent until they're young adults. They need extraordinary levels of love, care and education for all those years to be successful adults.
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Fifteen year olds who have babies and have no parental support, have a poor chance of giving their babies good support to grow up well. There need to be programs that address this: but religious communities don't have deep pockets to institute such programs and the government doesn't either. Foster care is all they've got.
Children are wonderful assets when their parents want and expect them. When grandparents are around and give them that extra loving they need and are there to take up the slack paid child care can't.Pro choice all the way.
I've always found it incredulous that there are people who think it's their right to make that choice for the woman.
A man should never have any right to say "Hey that's my kid you're having. You are not allowed to get an abortion." What a ridiculous notion that is! If you're a guy that wants a kid, talk to your partner and if you're in agreement that you want a kid, it will happen. It's not your body or you pushing a kid out of your vagina.
Same thing with the government. How is it possible people somehow think the government should have the right to make the decision for you? Let's give a scenario: If a couple lives in a secluded area of the world. The girl gets pregnant and decides to abort it because either she can't financially sustain it or she's just not ready for the commitment. Is it suddenly everyone else's business to get involved in her life? Should they send helicopters over to the secluded area and force her to have the kid? No. The fact is, no one would even know and it's none of their concern anyways.
And then there's the whole notion people have that all life is worth saving. In that case, don't have sex because every time a guy cums those sperm cells are dying. Yes... all cells are alive by definition. No matter how small they may be, they are still life. Even if the kid has somewhat developed, it is still ethical to abort them because they have not experienced life at all and don't have the mental capacity at that time.See I choose in reality neither, but lean pro-choice. Why simply; because there are on both sides of the coin whether you’re pro-choice or pro-life major issues. First thing let’s start off with pro-life; because it’s just a shorter section to address. Often more than not the sentiment of pro- life is fine, But every so often we run into issues that are a little bit beyond those sentiments. For example what happens if somebody is raped and they are impregnated by their rapist should they be forced to have that child knowing that that child came about of rape. Also logically further down the line that child may be neglected due to the fact that they were a product of rape both by the mother and clearly by the father. Another good example against pro-life is what happens if someone finds out that they having a child it will kill them. At that point doesn’t it seem logical to say okay well will abort at the correct time so as to avoid those issues. As for pro-choice it sounds all well, and good, but the question is who the hell‘s choice is it is it the woman’s choice alone, and does the man have no say. The issue with pro-choice is that one party can be very wanting of a child, and the other party may not be as wanting. There’s no choice that allows either party to not be a parent except for abortion.
I don't think that life begins at conception, but I also think it's safe to say getting an abortion 8.5 months into a pregnancy isn't really any different killing it 2 weeks latter when it's born. Somewhere in between the baby/fetus (however you want to refer to it) gains enough humanity that it has a life independent of that of the mother carrying it. I'm not sure where that is, and I quite frankly don't think anyone has a good answer. The lines people typically draw for when that point is are often either too extreme and emotion driven to be convincing or very artificial and seem to be largely based on guessing. However, if I'm going to lean towards one side it's going to be the pro life side. If I'm going to be morally wrong I'd much rather be morally wrong in that I unjustly denied women access to a certain form of birth control. I would much less want to be morally wrong in that I advocated for the murder of children. Both are bad, but one is clearly freaking ton worse than the other.
I'm glad I never had to deal with a situation where I was pushed into having to consider abortion. My first two kids were planned. When I had my twin boys it was a total surprise, but after thinking about it I actually decided I was happy about it.I am pro-choice. Under no circumstances should a woman ever be forced to give birth. A woman should have the choice to abort or not to abort. Until the baby is able to live without requiring the mother's body for survival, the fetus is nothing more than a temporary body part, not unlike a sperm cell or egg cell. This is because a fetus is a developing baby rather than an actual baby. No guarantee exists that the fetus would finish developing, as miscarriages are possible. Stillborn births are also a possibility as well. Sometimes, women with certain medical conditions, such as diabetes for example, are more likely to die after giving birth. Thus, if a woman finds out that she is more prone to death after childbirth, then she should definitely be entitled to an abortion to save her life. People also overlook the existence of unwanted pregnancies through rape and/or incest.
A rape victim might not have the means mentally and/or financially to raise a child that she didn't plan. Thus, the best option might be to abort the child. Also, if she was raped by a family member, then the chances are great that the child could be born with deformities and several other negative birth conditions. Thus, it's better to abort the fetus to spare the would-be child from further suffering. Some people might say that women that get abortions because of rape and incest are rare, but the truth is we don't know for sure. For all we know, abortions from rape and incest could be more common than we think, but simply go unreported. Additionally, outlawing abortions would not prevent women from getting abortions. Women could still get abortions in the black market, which is unsafe and could possibly result in more health problems. Thus, the best option is to give women the chance to abort legally in safer conditions.Their is no such thing as pro choice. You had a choice and you chose to get pregnant. That isn't pro choice that is pro abortion and anti responsibility.
As for why its mostly males, well that is simple, we are taught from birth to be responsible for our actions while women are taught from birth that they are never responsible for their actions. That is why so many women are pro abortion, because it lets them be irresponsible and avoid having to suffer the consequences of their bad choices. Men don't get that luxury, that is why almost all women who are pro abortion are also pro child support because again, its not about choice its about avoiding responsiblity. She can escape her responsibilites if she wants but he never can because that would mean she would have to suffer the consequences of her actions.
Also yes men don't give birth that is correct, they are only the ones that the entire world tells them to sit their and watch as their child is murdered before their face and they are not allowed to stop it, a personal hell for most men as we are wired to protect our families and when it comes to abortion the government and women won't let us protect our own children.
So I'm pro life because I believe in being a responsible adult and I am also not a sociopath that would bring lie into this world only to murder it.Two reasons for me being Pro choice.
I can't imagine a kid going through all the shit they might have to if the parents just had to have them without any intention or planning.
If they are not ready, no one should force them to raise a child.
How about someone hands me a kid while I'm at the mall talking a walk, and tells me to raise them. Not an equivalent situation, but most people in this situation are themselves too young and uncertain to have this resposibility.
Secondly, I forgot the second point I had in mind. I am sesitive to this topic.
Where I come from, I don't know about other places, rape is a problem. And I have seen 15 year old rape survivors , 23 weeks pregnant, appealing in court for an abortion, and they are not given that option due to whatever fucking reason.
I rarely cuss. But what the fuck is that.
She should have the first right to decide on what should be done, and it was a failure of the government and society that she had to go through this. So she should get full medical and financial support to abort.
Bottom line is, I AM PRO CHOICE.Pro choice is pro life, life positive, a humane treatment of life. A mother shouldn't have too go three days at a time without food or work itself nearly to death if she's a single mom who always a teenage mom but my mom did and the option of having abortion would have been a better choice for her at that stage in her life meaning that she was in high school and she had me. Things turned out okay but it required a lot of sacrifice and a lot of hardship for both of us to get through it and that should not be forced to require of anyone. People call themselves pro-life are hypocrites there's nothing pro or life-affirming about pro life it's sadistic restrictive fascist thinking. Any legislation resulting from that type of thinking does not belong in this country, and neither do the people who push that agenda. If people have a problem with abortion, then they should be focusing on preventative approaches to unplanned teenage pregnancy, not on punishing teenagers and putting them in situations where they may end up having to risk their lives in illegal abortion procedures. Pro-choice advocates are trying to outlaw abortion, and these people are scum. If there is a hell, than there's a special place just for them waiting.
I would say pro choice, but I think there should be more emphasis on a man's choice too, even if that's a case that if a man is dead set on not having kids he should get a vasectomy.
My partner is against abortions, but is also of the mindset that getting a vasectomy should be a joint decision and isn't something that she wants me to go through with.
So where does that leave me as a guy who doesn't want kids? Either get a vasectomy anyway and be the bad guy for over ruling what is supposedly a joint decision, use contraception that isn't 100% effective and risk her getting pregnant, which she will then want to keep as she is against abortion.
Then that means either me being the bad guy for wanting her to get an abortion, being the bad guy for not wanting to remain in a relationship where we have a kid I didn't want. Or just spend the rest of my life unhappy because we have a kid I dont think I can cope with.
Dont get me wrong I'm not saying it would be a challenge with just one kid, but she has two from past relationships, one of which has autism, they're enough of a handful as it is.I believe in Plan B.
If I feel like I might be pregnant the next day and I did not take enough precaution I will go buy Plan B. I have done that 2x my entire life. My friend, whom I told this to, was very against this. I don't think there is anything wrong with this. IT is just another cautious form of birth control. LIke making sure you did make him wear a condom and pull out and maybe was on the pill.
Now if the baby is already like a couple weeks old then I would not terminate it, as in abortion or abortion pill. I will have the baby. I am in a position where I can have a baby and not be afraid that I won't be able to take care of it. I have never been in that kind of position, where I felt having the baby would take my life away from me.
I know there are women in many situations where they had felt that they had to get rid of the baby because the timing was wrong, or it was with a bad partner who didn't want the kid. My mom had a few abortions and so did my sister in law. I NEVER considered an abortion for any of my 3 live birth pregnancies.Honestly yea your right we men won't know what it's like to have kids. However does that mean the women are the only one's who get to choose what to do with their kid? Some would say no some would say yea. Personally I am both to some extent. Would I used it? Honestly I don't know. Would I want my girl to use it? I don't know However babies, mothers and fathers are very important. If one person gets to choose what they do with a baby that's not 100% theirs to begin with ( Sex is needed to make kids ) than why should the mother have 100% choice when it comes to aborting it? Yea my body, my choice and your correct so men why not say my sperm my choice. Ladies you aren't gonna lose or win this battle, same goes with men. In the end, its your call and you will face the problems that come later. So if you want to get a abortion and your boyfriend doesn't than break up with each other. Most women would do it anyway even if the guy said no so I don't know why you ladies even ask. Not like any of you actually care what men (who you say have no right to the child ) opinion is anyway. Sooner or later tho men may stop wanting to have sex with real women. Eventually men may start looking for different ways to get off that won't change pregnancy and therefore any women who is pro choice won't have to worry. You won't get pregnant because no one wants you and therefore i wish you the best of luck
A couple of comments. First, in your update you seem to suggest men are more pro life than women, which is not true. Every study or poll shows views on abortion don't differ much at all between men and women.
Secondly, what do you mean by "pro choice"? I support both a woman's and a man's right to choose whether or not they want to be a parent. Women should have the right to an abortion, and men should have the legal right to choose to "abort" their obligations as a parent, financially and otherwise. That's the only fair pro choice solution, but it would require some changes. A man would have to make his decision to "abort" early enough in the pregnancy that the mother can still safely have an abortion if she wants to having been informed of the father's choice. But if the mother does not notify him in time, he should have the option of "aborting" within a set time period after being notified.
As for myself, I believe ALL human life is sacred. Do I believe there are certain situations in which it is warranted? Yes. Do I believe it is right to have an abortion because it is inconvenient to be pregnant? NO. There are far too many couples who are unable to conceive, that would love to adopt an infant and raise it as their own. And there are consequences for having an abortion. I have had friends who had an abortion and spiraled into depression afterwards. On even tried to kill herself. They were pro-choice and felt they were doing the right thing at the time. Sometimes, even a miscarriage can have long lasting emotional consequences, and it was not even their fault. This tells me that there is something hard wired into us as human beings, that speaks to us inwardly about the sanctity of life. As to your comment that all pro choice votes have been male, I would point out this IS a girls ask guys forum, not a girls ask girls forum. There have been only 52 female respondents to a 110 male responses. There may yet be some females brave enough to vote pro choice, as more responses come in. I was in the military, and I will continue to defend your right to express your opinions. I believe when a lady is faced with that decision, there should be counseling, and an unbiased presentation of both sides of the equation, so she can make an informed choice, based on ALL the facts and the emotional consequences of whatever decision she makes. I think far too many decide to have an abortion because they feel they have no other choice, and were never presented with alternatives or having them explained to them. In the case of my friends, who had an abortion, over half of them said that had someone taken the time lay this out for them, they would NOT have had the abortion.
I am a female pro-lifer. Even though I personally have no children, my older sister is married with a child, and I was present at her birth. Thus, I am perfectly aware over how difficult the childbirth process can be. Even so, that doesn't justify harming a potential human. It's a question of ethics.
I believe one way to bring both the pro-life and pro-choice camps closer is by promoting effective contraception. After all, one thing both sides can agree on is that there should't be any unwanted babies.
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