Is one of the biggest problems among liberals & conservatives is that both spend very little time outside their own bubble?

[Anonymous]

For example, many left-leaning/liberal individuals HAVE or DO NOT:

•Gone on a police ride-along
•Follow conservative individuals’ social media
•Follow informative police social media pages
•Watch more conservative/right-leaning news

An identical thing can be said in reverse for the other side.

People are TRAPPED in their own BUBBLE or ECHO CHAMBER.

Yes

No

[nightdrot]

That would be the "go to" answer. However, it is more complicated than that. The larger problem is that people do not understand the history and pedigree of their own ideas. Therefore, they end up in a conversation of the deaf.

American conservatives are not, historically speaking, conservative. Rather they are classical liberals, albeit with a streak of Protestant social traditionalism. Pure free market economics running up against the restrictions conservatives historically have wanted to put on abortion rights and immigration.

(Even then, the anti-immigrant stance of American conservatives is of recent vintage. Recall that President Reagan was a strong advocate of immigration and was staunchly opposed by the Democrats of his day. Indeed, it is grand good fun to read - as late as the 1990s - Bill Clinton's first Democratic Party platform. It would today, no doubt, be called racist by contemporary Democrats.)

American liberals are not, historically speaking, liberals at all. Rather they are "radical" liberals.

Note here, even that term being misunderstood. As used here, "radical" does not mean extremist. Rather it means - as the ancient Greeks used it - "to the root of." Meaning that the liberals take the classical definition of liberalism and argue that it does not go far enough. That there are inequalities of wealth and power inherent in society that only a transformative welfare state can address by righting those imbalances. American liberals who see the welfare state as a lever to engineer social transformation. That is, to restructure society according to some abstract a priori vision.

The bottom line being that the problem is not that each side is in its own bubble. Rather that it does not understand its own bubble - and the implications that flow from being in it - and therefore has no chance of comprehending the arguments of the other side, let alone rebutting those arguments.

Thus all that is left is a shrill argument unleavened by any deeper analysis. This further augmented by the nature of current technologies. The hope was that such technologies would advance the spread of knowledge and ideas.

Rather, all that is happened is that it has become an amplifier and an echo chamber. Thus creating a cultural and intellectual environment where bellicosity replaces reasoned debate. The side that shouts the loudest being judged the most sincere.

It has been well said that Americans travel fast because they travel light. They are unburdened by any sense of history and therefore an appreciation of the limits that attend.

This was captured long ago by Patrick Henry when he said, "We have it in our power to make the world over again." Oh no we don't - that is not given to imperfect and imperfectible beings and where it has been attempted, much bloodshed has followed. To borrow another quote, as Russell Kirk said, "The pursuit of Utopia is the primal madness of the species." Think 1789, think 1917, think 1922, think 1933, think 1939, think 1949.

Thus it is not that American liberals and conservatives spend too much time in their own bubbles. Rather it is that they are too unaware of the limits of history to be aware of their own ideas and thus they are perpetually astonished when they get outcomes for which they neither intended nor planned.

[RolandCuthbert]

I totally disagree. I have a discussion group full of folks with a wide variety of opinions, backgrounds, and politics. I have folks who are American Indians, Latinos, Asians, "Black" folks, "White" American, Korean, Apache, Gay, Straight, Mixed, Hapa, etc. We have folks who are Trump supporters. Some who are flaming liberals. Others who are like me. . old fashioned Conservative. Some are anit-vax, anti-mask. Others are actual scientists. We have a microbiologist. We have psychologists. We have medical doctors, lawyers, and some politicians. We have business owners, military veterans, etc.

And very act of putting together such a group is called liberal at GaG. It is only Conservative if you refuse to let anyone participate who is not apart of a very narrow, extremist very weird worldview.

The extremist brood here at GaG literally hates anyone who does not share their political worldview which gets more extreme every single day. To the point their politics is more important than the system that allows them to be able to reach their own ideas, viewpoints, and conclusions.

[Asker]

Well, from what I’ve observed in mainstream society, is that MORE people, yes, are joining and tuning into discussion groups, podcasts, and forums similar to what you mentioned.

Where all sorts of backgrounds chime into topics.

Unfortunately in many other places, perhaps MOST, there is still a homogenous thinking, where only one group or argument is put out without other perspectives. Many people get lost in this thinking and don’t get their ideas challenged and don’t see things from other people’s perspective.

[RolandCuthbert]

But that is the thing. Ask your so-called supporters here. How many would join a discussion group that had people with various backgrounds and worldviews?

I mean, do you do this in your real life? You were bragging about being respected here. Knowing me as long as you have, why would I simply leave this place to find one where everyone agreed with me? We have American Indians in my group who distrust the entire political system, period. I don't mean like the fake outrage displayed here. I mean folks who don't trust anything from the American government no matter who is in office. We literally had a shouting match over Covid that I had to quell and expel a member for namecalling and shouting. We had some folks who were actually very nice, a husband/wife who were very anti-vax, mask and pretty much anything scientific. We had three meetups.. . count them, lead by an Asian woman who hated BLM.

I don't worry about where I tread because I know what I believe in and I know why I believe in it.

Echo chambers are for the weak-minded. Because they are afraid of being challenged on their views.

[Asker]

Well, in my real life, I have friends from all walks of life and views.

I’m not so passionate about my views there that I am here and even then I feel like talking online can come off as misleading because there’s no social cues.

Right now, I’m perfectly calm and not really caring too much about the discussion at hand.

Meaning, I’m not so invested in it, but if you wouldn’t be able to decipher that reading what I wrote because these words can’t show you my face or other social cues.

I want more of the world to be like you and I, where we come closer to trying to understand the perspective of the other person or at least tune into more of the opposing viewpoints from ours.

A mixture of this and HUMANITY & EMPATHY and we will be alright.

Example: Certain black communities within the US have been talking about police brutality and corruption in their communities.

So, I’ve advocated for:
•more body cameras

•a citizen liaison that works with the police to address certain issues within the community

•police ride-alongs

•stricter hiring standards

•police to community talks, where the public is invited to related news event talks within the police/community. Think of it as a lot of people within an auditorium talking about recent events within the community.

•fixing broken down homes

•working with local businesses within the black community to increase security and hire more from their community

•creating incentives and donating to those in poverty so young black & women can go to good schools.

[RolandCuthbert]

Emp? Are you being real with yourself? I can't say I have friends from all walks of like. Naturally, I am not a friend of racists, sexists, and other fruitcakes. I expose myself in my public life to those lifestyles because it challenges me.

As for what you have advocated for, I want to say quite loudly. . . THAT ALL SEEMS FAIR. Some of it even goes far beyond what I would advocate for and in many instances far beyond what is even being requested.

But that fairness was not reflected in our discussions. Why make claims here, you would not make your everyday life?

[19magic]

I definitely get that as most people don't have a clue what the others argument was or is

[OlderAndWiser]

I listen to a local conservative talk radio host when I am driving to and from work.
I do not watch television.
I read news on both Fox and CNN. Occasionally, I look at something in the NY Times or NY Post.
I read many liberal posts on this site, as well as conservative posts.
My friends at church are equally split between left and right.

So, I don't think this criticism applies to me, but I do think it applies to many who are intolerant of divergent views.

[KrakenAttackin]

@OlderAndWiser. I used to do the same when outlets like the NYT and CNN at least pretended to be neutral.

[KrakenAttackin]

I do like Al Jazeera, however.

[MCheetah]

I can definitely say that is true for elitist far-leftists, but not so much for those in the middle or on the right, as they are often forced to be exposed to far-left rhetoric, whether they want to or not. Such as the trans-agenda and so much wokeness being pushed into entertainment nowadays even though less than 10% of society wants this horsesh*t. Those on the right are not stuck in a bubble or echo chamber by the fact that those in power keep pushing this crap onto them, even if they'd prefer to be stuck in an echo chamber. And I'm not on the right, by the way. But I despise woke horsesh*t as much as any other sane rational person.

[demonics]

Johnathan Haidt's "Hidden Tribes" research found this phenomena not to be equally problematic.

Self described liberals get their information from 90% leftwing sources, 10% conservatives.
Moderates 60/40
Conservatives 70/30

A more recent study found that liberals largely think the economy is doing great (as soon as Biden was inaugurated), whereas conservatives and moderates live in the real world and recognize 10 million+ job openings, empty store shelves, trucker shortages, and nursing shortages, and the fed's money printer literally smoking are not good things.

[Avicenna]

I read leftist media (including foreign media) and have leftist friends and family members. The issue is they see things through the leftist prism and don’t care about things like due process. We see this all the time here on GAG. Leftism is really an incoherent attitude and it’s adherents are constantly miserable and want their political opponents to be too.

[lightbulb27]

no, I talk to democratic friends and I'm neutral leaning republican. The left shifted way left. But it is polarizing how people think and it is based upon their environment including media environment.

[Sabretooth]

conservatives more so. here's a study that mentions it:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/aCvj6__6rEI

dems, too... to a lesser extent... for now.

[Andres77]

Absolutely... they're not even willing to hear about the other side.

[EnglishEuropean]

I don't live in an echo chamber; I live in the real world, like most sane people.

[SmokinAces2000]

The biggest problem is that they are liberal and conservative. Everyone should just be independent

[Gwenhwyfar]

I think you’re right as a general rule