Are authoritarian measures worthless vs Covid?

[Juxtapose]

Yes.

No.

[TheSpaceGnome]

When you shut down most stores, everyone then gets funneled to being at the few places left open at the same time, so it's just increasing the number of people each person gets exposed to, thus spreading the virus much faster.

Shutting down places also causes job loss, which means more people end up swarming the food pantries and social services offices and spreading it that way. it makes more sense to keep everything open, so everyone is more spread out/places are less packed/people keep their jobs.

6 feet apart and masks doesn't matter when you both touch the same counter, the receipts the same cashier gives you, the same items in the store that the same cashier touched to scan, and that other customers touched when shopping, and the same credit/debit card scanner.

The covid vaccine never got human testing because the test for covid gives false negatives and false positives almost 80% of the time. So we can't even verify effecacy for it.

Overuse of hand sanitizers leaves your immune system compromised, increasing the likelihood of you getting infected.

The only valuable effort was stopping shipments lf covid contaminated foods.

[Juxtapose]

^^ facts.

[Fuentes]

I will never bow down to Fascism

[Avicenna]

Yeah, and the fact that they're still being employed makes it blatantly clear to even the most obtuse that it isn't about COVID.

[joeldalton]

You think the measures are there to prevent Covid? Bahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Juxtapose]

Never said I did.

[RolandCuthbert]

That's Australia. We are America. We would never enact measures at a Federal level.

But state by state. . . county by country. . . city by city?

Of course.

Read the Constitution dude. A lot of good stuff is in there.

[jshm2]

You're not the brightest, it seems. You just took half a story, and ran with it for useless internet points.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

[Juxtapose]

That website doesn't mention the vaccinated at all.

Also fuck you too. Trash talk me again and I'm removing your opinion bitch.

[PinkPeach]

Communism is the enemy.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

How is what's going on in Australia "communism"?

[msc545]

Yeah, if you are Jeff Bezos, it is. If you are poor or middle class, it is your friend.

[DCooper]

@msc545 Yeah, because Maduro's buddies are all suffering while the regular Joes are doing just fine, eh?

[Juxtapose]

@DCooper lol xD

[PinkPeach]

Communism creates poverty.

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Poverty was WAY more rampant before communism came into being in the countries that it did than after.

[PinkPeach]

False

[Ad_Quid_Orator]

Would you rather live as an average person in the USSR or the Russian Empire.

And if you're going to bring up Stalin, the reason he industrialized at a rate that resulted in mass death was to give the USSR the military capacity to defend itself so if you want to bring that up you'd have to compare Stalins' regime to living in the areas occupied by the Wehrmacht.

[goaded]

Australia's total covid death count since Jan 2020 is less than the US had yesterday. Don't be an idiot.

[noohair]

It is human nature to avoid control over free thought and action. That is why governments attempt social change by manipulation their economies. Humans will resist control on all levels.

[msc545]

No, it's the only fucking thing anti-vaxxers will pay attention to.

[Juxtapose]

Yep, as we lock & load!

[Juxtapose]

That 95% tho.. oof that is damning for the Covid vax lovers.

[msc545]

@joeldalton what is it like bein unable to comprehend science?

[joeldalton]

The science that says that Pfizer is only 39% effective at preventing you from getting Covid-19? That science?

[msc545]

@joeldalton you cannot seem to understand simple English. It does not usually prevent you from getting sick - true. What is DOES DO is prevent you from being hospitalized or dying. Do you understand that?

[joeldalton]

Ok, so when the CDC said they were 90% effective at stopping the spread - that was a lie.
So, it’s a therapeutic medicine. Doesn’t seem to be much of a reason to mandate someone get something that’s just therapeutic medicine. We don’t mandate blood pressure medicine
So, this isn’t a pandemic of the unvaccinated as you fools have been claiming.
So, the only way someone is reasonably immune to covid-19 is to have recovered from it, so we need to lift any and all covid restrictions to let that happen so the variants don’t keep popping up.

[Juxtapose]

The vax is nowhere near as effective as the polio vaccine which covers you for life lol.

This is just a scheme to get big Pharma Rich. You only really need these vaccines if you are old or sickly to begin with.

[goaded]

@joeldalton They said that before the Delta variant, so it wasn't a lie, and it reduces your chances of getting seriously sick or dying by over 90%, which isn't nothing, and the unvaccinated are the ones dying, so it is, now, "a pandemic of the unvaccinated". Of course, wearing masks, even if you're vaccinated, will help.

[goaded]

In a way, "The vax is nowhere near as effective as the polio vaccine which covers you for life lol." (although for individuals it's probably less effective), because the virus mutates much more readily than polio or smallpox. It doesn't mean it's pointless, any more than looking both ways before crossing a road is pointless because there are pedestrian roads.

[joeldalton]

@goaded from the CDC website "A new CDC study provides strong evidence that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective in preventing SARS-CoV-2 infections in real-world conditions among health care personnel, first responders, and other essential workers. These groups are more likely than the general population to be exposed to the virus because of their occupations."

So yes, they were saying that the vaccines prevent the spread of covid-19. They do not.

You wear a mask after being vaccinated because you still spread the disease as much as a non-vaccinated person.

This is a pandemic of shitty vaccines. Not the unvaccinated.

[goaded]

@joeldalton "Monday, March 29, 2021", so "before the Delta variant, so it wasn't a lie, and it reduces your chances of getting seriously sick or dying by over 90%, which isn't nothing, and the unvaccinated are the ones dying, so it is, now, "a pandemic of the unvaccinated". Of course, wearing masks, even if you're vaccinated, will help. "

[joeldalton]

@goaded These vaccines were never good at preventing infection. They were touted to do such. Those are facts.

You're welcome to keep wearing your stupid masks. Have fun with it. It helps me know which people to avoid in public.

[goaded]

@joeldalton Ditto, I even met some idiot like you in real life, but I didn't take in what he'd said in front of his unfortunate child until I'd gone into the shop. No vaccine ever stopped a virus from entering your system, they help your immune system get rid of it asap, which reduces the chances you'll pass it on.

[joeldalton]

@goaded which these shots don't do. They turn you into a super-spreader. You can keep denying the obvious science all you want. They just announced Pfizer only lasts 2 months, lol. Now you're on a subscription model.

[goaded]

@joeldalton Bollocks, they did, and even so, that's one of several vaccines. Following CDC guidelines to wear masks even when vaccinated helps.

[goaded]

Oh, here we are: "Two new studies confirm that the immunity offered by two doses of Pfizer's coronavirus vaccine drops off after about two months, although protection against severe disease, hospitalization and death holds strong."

[joeldalton]

@goaded Right. So they're not vaccines. They're treatments. They don't suppress the spread of the disease. That's what I've said all along. They're crappy vaccines.

You don't mandate a leaky vaccine. That's unconscionable. You don't exclude the unvaccinated from society. That's immoral. You get the shot if you're at risk of dying from covid, dont' get it if you're not. Simple policy. Easy to understand. It's honesty and straightforward. But you lunatics can not be honest and straightforward.

[goaded]

@joeldalton Wrong. They're vaccines. Just like every other vaccine for the last couple of hundred years, they help the recipient's immune system cope with an infection, and that suppresses the spread of the disease, especially when aided by simple things like distancing and mask wearing.

[joeldalton]

@goaded they do not suppress the spread of the virus, lol. Harvard University has over 90% of staff and students with the shots and had to shut down for online courses because of a covid outbreak.
It's so bad the CDC just stopped counting breakthrough cases. You can't even be honest on one point. But that's not surprising.

[goaded]

@joeldalton They stopped counting breakthrough cases because most of them didn't get sick or die, and because it might have slowed vaccine take-up, fueled by people like you.

[goaded]

@joeldalton Funnily enough, I'm fine with everyone "hearing the truth and making up their own minds", the problem comes when people like you tell them lies instead.

The truth: Getting vaccinated makes you 10x or more less likely to get sick or die. Surviving an infection without a vaccine makes you even more likely to be immune, but you have to survive the infection first, which has a higher chance of killing you.

More people get saved by their seatbelts than die from them, so they help. Is this complicated?

[joeldalton]

@goaded You're lying when you say that the shots prevent infection. Plain and simple. You're lying when you claim that everyone should get the shots so we can have herd immunity. The CDC is lying when it doesn't count breakthrough infections.

For someone 30 and under who is healthy there is little reason to get these shots if they decide that is the best course of action for themselves.

Using your seatbelt analogy is perfect because it makes my point for me. At no point does anyone believe that they're safer in an accident because someone else is wearing their seatbelt. People who decide not to wear their seatbelt are no threat to you if you choose to wear one.

This means that vaccine passports and mandates are nothing but anti-freedom, authoritarian overreach by government entities, and will be met with mass resistance.

There is no need to wear masks.

[goaded]

@joeldalton If I'd ever said the shots prevent infection, I'd have been wrong, perhaps. Or are you lying about me saying that? Why would I be lying "when [I, supposedly] claim that everyone should get the shots so we can have herd immunity."? It's literally the best way to get it, the alternative is to let many more people die first.

"The CDC is lying when it doesn't count breakthrough infections."
How is openly not counting something lying?

So, the seatbelt analogy isn't perfect, but everyone is safer if they all choose the same side of the road to drive on, and everyone is safer if they wear a seatbelt.

[joeldalton]

@goaded not counting breakthrough infections is lying by omission.

So again, you’re claiming that these shots are super effective at keeping you from getting severely ill. And they don’t provide immunity from catching the virus. so yes, getting the shot if you’re at-risk of severe disease but living normally and getting it if you get it is the best way to combat covid-19.

Everyone is safer if they wear seatbelts: but again, you’re claiming you need me to wear a seatbelt to keep you safe. That’s idiotic.

[goaded]

@joeldalton No it's not, and I'm not just "claiming" anything, those are documented facts.

No vaccine stops a virus from entering your system, they all protect against the related disease. Do you understand that?

"Living normally and getting it" is ten times more likely to kill unvaccinated people than unvaccinated (or recovered) people.

You choose which side of the road to drive on every day, everyone is safer if everyone chooses the same side, and the people who choose differently are stopped from being on the roads.

[joeldalton]

@goaded ok, let’s try this again. These shots do not give you sufficient immune response to prevent you from getting the disease. Better? You want to play semantics.

[goaded]

@joeldalton "These shots do not give you sufficient immune response to prevent you from getting the disease."

"data show fully vaccinated persons are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2, and infections with the Delta variant in fully vaccinated persons are associated with less severe clinical outcomes. Infections with the Delta variant in vaccinated persons potentially have reduced transmissibility than infections in unvaccinated persons, although additional studies are needed."
www.cdc.gov/.../fully-vaccinated-people.html (There's a broken link, which should be www.cdc.gov/.../fully-vaccinated.html )

They also say that recovered people should also get a vaccination.

[joeldalton]

@goaded my god dude. You are fuckin dense. I’ll type slower. The shots you are taking do not perfom adequately to prevent the spread of covid 19 among the population. A 90% vaccinated population does not have herd immunity. Natural immunity from a recovered infection is 13x more effective than the shot.

[goaded]

@joeldalton OK, so (for the first time, afaics) you're making the case that a population that has 90% vaccinated does not have herd immunity. Is that right?

[joeldalton]

@goaded By looking at Harvard, they are 90% vaccinated and had to go to online classes due to a covid spike.

[goaded]

@joeldalton You might have a point, if Harvard wasn't 30 thousand people in a city of 120 thousand, in a state of 7 million, with 78% over-12s (which is very high, but 68% of the total) fully vaccinated. They aren't in an environment of 90% vaccination, and so you you haven't made your point.

Besides which, Harvard is testing everyone 3 times a week, which will necessarily find almost every case within days, and the ones being taught online are "all first-year and some second-year MBA students", not everyone by any means, and I suspect the most likely to be right-wing on campus.

[joeldalton]

@goaded lmao, I certainly have. You’re just denying the truth because you’ve invested too much of your personality into covid. Even the CDC says that these crappy shots don’t stop you from spreading covid. That’s why you tools are back in masks after two shots. The good news is that the real world has moved on. Only you dopes are still playing pandemic.

[goaded]

@joeldalton Oh, look: "While its undergraduate counterpart, Harvard University, requires vaccinations for students and faculty, the business school has yet to implement a similar mandate." So, the breakthrough cases aren't in the highly vaccinated part, and...

“Contact tracers who have worked with positive cases highlight that transmission is not occurring in classrooms or other academic settings on campus,” Mark Cautela, a spokesman for Harvard Business School, reportedly said. “Nor is it occurring among individuals who are masked.”

thehill.com/.../574106-harvard-moves-first-year-mba-students-online-amid-rise-in-breakthrough

[joeldalton]

@goaded The term “breakthrough cases” is exactly that - cases from vaccinated individuals. Thanks for proving my point.

[goaded]

@joeldalton Sigh. No, your point was 90% vaccination wasn't enough to provide herd immunity. The Business School does not mandate vaccinations, so its level is well below 90% (if not, as 10% of the school, mostly responsible for the 10% unvaccinated in the university as a whole), so nobody there is in a 90% vaccinated environment.

[joeldalton]

@goaded I’ve said from the start these shots don’t prevent the spread of the disease. Please try to pay attention. And you’re incorrect

collegenews.org/.../

[goaded]

@joeldalton So they only increase the chances of surviving by 90%+? Why bother?

Also, as I said before: "While its undergraduate counterpart, Harvard University, requires vaccinations for students and faculty, the business school has yet to implement a similar mandate." Your link is for Harvard University, the outbreaks are in the business school.

[joeldalton]

@goaded It’’’s in plain English. I don’t know why you can’t read. 90% of Harvard University students are vaccinated. They are having an “epidemic” of breakthrough cases. Despite being 90% vaccinated.

[goaded]

@joeldalton They have cases in the part of the school that isn't 90% vaccinated, not in the majority that is.

[joeldalton]

@goaded breakthrough cases = cases in vaccinated kids. Stop lying.

[goaded]

@joeldalton Yes, and they're all happening in an environment that is (probably much) less than 90% vaccinated. Stop lying.

If every state was 92% vaccinated and one was 50% vaccinated, and all the breakthrough cases were in that one state, that would mean that 90% vaccination gave herd immunity, and 50% didn't, not that 90% vaccination didn't.

[joeldalton]

@goaded Jesus Christ you’re dense. The breakthrough cases are cases from those that are vaccinated. Not those who are not. Same with Israel. SAme with the US (if the CDC was being honest). No studies show lasting, robust immunity from these shots. They’re worse than flu shots as far as effectiveness.

[goaded]

@joeldalton Jesus Christ you’re dense. The breakthrough cases are cases from those that are vaccinated in an environment where less than 90% are vaccinated. You're lying that 90% vaccination doesn't create herd immunity. (Maybe it doesn't, but you're miles away from proving it.)

[joeldalton]

@goaded lmao. You can continue to believe your fantasy, I won’t. Enjoy your next round of boosters and mask wearing,

[goaded]

@joeldalton I'm sure you'll keep believing what you want to over what's actually true: the breakthrough cases Harvard is experiencing are in the part of the school that doesn't have a vaccine mandate. There is nowhere on Earth that has 90% vaccination. You're full of crap.

[joeldalton]

@goaded the preponderance of scientific studies show that these shots lose effectiveness anywhere from 2-6 months. Breakthrough cases are everywhere with high vaccination rates. Simple facts that you can’t seem to understand.

[goaded]

@joeldalton You wouldn't know a fact if it slapped you in the face. You made a specific claim, than 90% vaccination doesn't confer herd immunity, but the breakthrough cases Harvard is experiencing are in the part of the school that doesn't have a vaccine mandate. There is nowhere on Earth that has 90% vaccination. And, I can't emphasise this enough, you're full of crap.

[joeldalton]

@goaded moron, you’re conflating a mandate with a vaccination rate. Jesus Christ, you think I’m as stupid as you. I clearly showed Harvard has a 90% vaccination rate among students.

[goaded]

@joeldalton Harvard University, because it has a vaccination mandate, not the much smaller Harvard Business School, which is where the right-wingers go for an MBA and all the breakthrough cases are.

[joeldalton]

@goaded patently untrue.

[goaded]

@joeldalton thehill.com/.../574106-harvard-moves-first-year-mba-students-online-amid-rise-in-breakthrough

[joeldalton]

@goaded one more time, retard. “Breakthrough’ means a vaccinated person getting covid.

[goaded]

@joeldalton Your claim was that 90% vaccination doesn't provide herd immunity, but the people at the university are not the herd. The herd is Cambridge, Mass., with much less than 90% coverage, and all the cases have come from outside the campus, and through not wearing masks.

“Contact tracers who have worked with positive cases highlight that transmission is not occurring in classrooms or other academic settings on campus,” Mark Cautela, a spokesman for Harvard Business School, reportedly said. “Nor is it occurring among individuals who are masked.”
thehill.com/.../574106-harvard-moves-first-year-mba-students-online-amid-rise-in-breakthrough

[joeldalton]

@goaded lol, you can spin it all you want, these shots don’t contribute to herd immunity. Whether it’s Harvard, or Israel, or any other place where cases among the vaccinated are skyrocketing.

[goaded]

@joeldalton You can lie all you want, there is nowhere on Earth that has 90% vaccination without close contact with areas of lower levels.

[joeldalton]

@goaded lmao. President Brandon wants 98%. That’s the moron you support.

[goaded]

@joeldalton Oh, look, you're moving the goalposts again. Your claim was that a population that has 90% vaccinated does not have herd immunity. There is no such population, so you don't have a clue. It's estimated to be 80–88% for Delta, but that's closer to 100% of adults.

Herd immunity isn't that nobody catches a virus, it's that the virus doesn't spread in that group.

[joeldalton]

@goaded no, you moron. I said that these shots will not get you to herd immunity. Because a population that is 90% vaccinated still had so many cases they had to shut down the university. It is evidence of how shitty those shots are.

[goaded]

@joeldalton no you moron, you said that they had 90% vaccination and they didn't have herd immunity, despite the obvious fact that they're in a city with much less than 90% vaccination.

[joeldalton]

@goaded I didn’t you stupid fuck. It’s quite frankly embarrassing that you’re so invested in these stupid shots that you just forget science. If you fucktards would just admit the truth we could move passed this pandemic. But you’re so into worshiping this garbage that you can’t give it up.

[goaded]

@joeldalton "A 90% vaccinated population does not have herd immunity." You said.

[joeldalton]

@goaded They won’t with these shots.

[goaded]

@joeldalton Since there's no single place on Earth that has that, you have no clue, you're just making shit up, as usual.

[joeldalton]

PS mass is 70% vaccinated and 12% recovered of covid. That’s 82%

[joeldalton]

@goaded so the entire world has to be vaccinated at a > 80% rate for us to achieve herd immunity. Lol, good luck with that.

[goaded]

@joeldalton "A 90% vaccinated population does not have herd immunity." You said, without evidence.

And 70% vaccinated and 12% recovered is only 82% if there's no overlap, and if they were the real numbers, which are actually 67% and 10%.

www.worldometers.info/.../
www.mass.gov/.../download

The main thing stopping 80%+ vaccination rates are people like you.

[joeldalton]

@goaded lmao. how am I stopping herd immunity? I've been immune to covid for 15 months.

[goaded]

@joeldalton You've spent most of those 15 months saying that masks don't work and the the same about the vaccines.

[joeldalton]

@goaded Masks don't work. And the vaccine does not work to prevent the spread of covid-19. IT's a good treatment and seems to keep you out of the hospital despite the many health complications that many get from the shots. The shots are not useful for people under 30 who are healthy. The risks are greater than the benefit.

All this is true.

[goaded]

@joeldalton None of that is true, any more than your lie that 90% vaccination doesn't result in herd immunity, and you've been spreading the same bs for months, which is why you're part of the problem.

[Lliam]

They are completely, demonstrably worthless.

[goaded]

Australia's total covid death count since Jan 2020 is less than the US had yesterday.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

Yes, I would have to say so