Why aren’t people with documented history of mental illness banned from purchasing guns? Why aren’t there more red flag laws? Why has little changed?

[WhiteBoyChill]

Hearing about all these mass shootings happening all the time is frustrating. Because we never do anything about it.

I can’t understand why such little progress has been made.

Currently the only protective measure in place is criminal background checks.

But it still isn’t enough. I’m not a gun control activist but there’s no reason people should senselessly die.

Law abiding citizens can still have the right to enjoy their freedom.

But I’m just not understanding why after all these mass shootings we haven’t made laws about mental health as well.

Because to me it seems like a vast majority of the time, aside from a few notable exceptions, the shooters had lengthy histories of mental illness that were well documented.

So why isn’t this information entered into a database for gun purchases?

People with mental illnesses shouldn’t be allowed to buy guns because we see what happens all the time.

I mean it seems as though if we had such laws in place it would have stopped practically every shooting I can think of. Aside from the one in Vegas.

But then of course there should also be more red flaw laws. Because often people already have prior knowledge that’s cause for concern.

And I’m sure most law abiding gun owners can support these measures. Because it wouldn’t even adversely affect them in any unfair way.

So lets just focus on keeping tools out of the hands of dangerous people, instead of seeking to prohibit millions of law abiding citizens from practicing their own personal lifestyles.

[OlderAndWiser]

I understand your point about mental illness and gun ownership but there are serious problems with trying to implement such a law. That is why you hear people advance this idea in very general terms, but they never make a specific proposal.

1. Does ANY mental illness disqualify a person from owning a gun? If so, someone who is OCD cannot own a gun?

2. Who must make the diagnosis to disqualify someone from owning a gun? When I was 21 and had just a bachelor's degree, I was a mental health counsellor at a psychiatrc facility and I diagnosed patients every day. Is that good enough?

3. Does diagnosis of a depressive episode at age 21 disqualify a person from owning a gun at age 45?

4. Once you have a database of mentally ill people, will it be available for background checks to screen teachers, day care workers, and others who have access to children? What other purposes will generally find their way to accessing the database?

5. How does someone challenge their inclusion in the database?

6. Doesn't the inclusion in such a database act as a deterrent to people seeking mental health treatment?

@msc545, what do YOU think about this?

[WhiteBoyChill]

Yeah. I understand its not as simple as I made it sound but I feel as though something really needs to be done.

[ShadezMcgee]

As a gun owner myself I believe safety and learning how to use firearms is imperative to any potential owner, especially if they are first time buyers. Guns aren't toys and need to be in the hands of people who know how to sort them properly, handle them properly and use them properly.

Now with that out of the way, I will say you are treading on thin ice with this belief. Mental illness in this light is very broad as you weren't specific to which illnesses you were speaking about. Is it ANY sign or documentation of mental illness or is it specific ones? Being mentally ill does not make someone dangerous and it truly depends on the illness itself and the upbringing and behaviors and treatment that they were receiving.

There is still stigma around mental illness despite it has gotten better with being more public. But it still shows up in restrictions on who can do or enjoy certain things. People can be barred from jobs because of it, lifestyle and privileges can be limited if lawmakers have a say as well. Furthermore, documentation is on one's medical record regardless of when it was diagnosed and treated. Does that mean anyone with past mental illness despite treatment can't own firearms now?

[Exterminatore]

Depends on the mental illness, and they are in most jurisdictions. I know in most states if you’ve been put involuntarily in a mental health facility you’re banned from owning and purchasing guns for a lengthy period of time.


Illnesses like schizophrenia for example, where one literally disassociates from reality, I’m sure we can all agree these people should be barred from owing firearms. But what about OCD? That’s a mental illness. Do we really need to take away a persons constitutional rights because they wash their hands 75 times a day? What about depression or anxiety? Who isn’t anxious or depressed from time to time?


So I think the nature of the mental illness needs to be taken into consideration.

[WhiteBoyChill]

Severe depression is cause for concern though.

[Exterminatore]

Nah. Depressed people just want to sleep and stay in bed. Requires too much motivation for them to shoot up a school.

[WhiteBoyChill]

Gee. That sounds a lot like me. I always had a tendency to sleep in and I think its in large part because of my depressive feelings

[Exterminatore]

It may well be.

[joeldalton]

Because chief, what determines mental illness?

You’re a soldier back from a tour in Afghanistan and you’re suffering from PTSD. Should you be forbidden to own a gun?

What if you suffer from depression but recover? You should be forbidden from owning a gun?

Do you think knowing that diagnosing your mental illness will be reported and your guns would be taken away will encourage or discourage you from seeking help?

Are the mentally ill more or less likely compared to the “normal” population to use violence?

[WhiteBoyChill]

I guess by mental illness I mean anyone like Nikolas Cruz that intends to kill people

[WhiteBoyChill]

And mentally ill people are obviously more prone to violence because sane people don’t resort to mass shootings just to derive pleasure from it

[joeldalton]

how do you determine which mental illnesses should require your guns be taken away?

[WhiteBoyChill]

Psychopathy for sure

[joeldalton]

Well you’re surely going to stop people from getting guns by putting in a law. That works so well for all other criminals.

[WhiteBoyChill]

Gee well a majority of shooters did purchase the guns they used legally. Its harder for kids to get guns illegally than it is for gang bangers

[007kingifrit]

ok first off. mass shootings are very rare. according to this 2018 study they are at a 30 year low. they are not common you just hear about them constantly because of the media. https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/26/schools-are-still-one-of-the-safest-places-for-children-researcher-says/

so the media is lying to you by the very frequency of reporting

and red flag laws are also known as "pre crime" or "thought crime" laws... which are illegal in most cases

[WhiteBoyChill]

Red flag laws still have to go through due process you realize

[WhiteBoyChill]

Its not like someone can just end someone’s life if their argument carries no burden of proof

[Exterminatore]

Red flag laws do not have to go through due process. That’s the idea. Authorities can confiscate your firearms without trial or warrant. Should be a trial first, then confiscation.

[007kingifrit]

due process of pre crime is not due process

[WhiteBoyChill]

@Exterminatore that’s not at all what I remember. I heard there is a trial

[Exterminatore]

@whiteboy

There isn’t. That’s why everyone is up in arms about them. If there were a trial and legit reason most people would’t be upset.

[Savage_Wisdom]

I understand where you're coming from, and as a gun owner myself I believe that everyone should learn proper gun safetybefore they are aloud to buy a gun. But it seems to me that a better solution for the prevention of school shootings is to make psychologists and therapist more easily accessible and affordable so people can work through there issues in a healthy manner before the nuclear option becomes the only option.

[WhiteBoyChill]

Nah man but if someone is like seeing a doctor because they’re phsychopathic they shouldn’t be out buying guns

[Savage_Wisdom]

It's already illegal to sell guns and ammo to people who have a mental illness. Of course all the regulations in the world won't do anything against a private sale. Besides, that feels like more of a bandaid solution. So many of those people don't have access to professionals who are trained in how to help them work through there issues in a healthy way, so they adopt bad copeing mechanisms that don't actually deal with the issues but just burry it, until it all just becomes to much for them to bare and they feel they have to take drastic action to stop the pain.

[Anonymous]

Depending on your mental fitness you can have guns taken away. So... yeah. Let’s not pretend that doesn’t exist. But the theshold is not just any mental illness. People can and have abused red flag laws to get people’s guns taken from them and made up mental illness etc.

[Seangreen]

Because not all mental illnesses are going to necessarily make you go out and commit mass murder

[anylolone]

Most mass shootings are made with illegal guns by crazy people with a criminal background.

[WhiteBoyChill]

A lot of times they are actually legally purchased

[anylolone]

But not most. Chicago has a plethora of those every weekend, all with illegal guns.

[WhiteBoyChill]

Im talking about school shootings tho

[anylolone]

What's the difference, it's mass shootings.

[f_ckjoebiden]

That's a harsh accusation sir. Are you God?

[OddBeMe]

You sound like such a commie.