Let's be fair: there's a reason that many are now defecting to third parties: the GOP repeatedly has shown itself to be a scam. When it wins, it refuses to prosecute Democrats for robbing us. This happened under both Bush and Trump. Dodd and Frank should have been dangling from nooses with their tongues lagging out and their guts splitting open like Judas'! Their Dodd-Frank bill gave the banks unlimited ability to rob investors.
But that thievery is not the worst of it! The duopoly of parties has also lied to and betrayed voters, too often without consequence, to mandatory health and car insurance. Making ANY insurance mandatory, is nothing more than a giant extortion racket, dressed up in pretty bow and pretending to be anything other than what it plainly is!
Worse: (f) law (unconstitutional) requires you to be insured, but doesn't require insurers to accept you. You can be dropped for any reason or none at all, left dangling, then face police harassment for simply trying to live your life in peace! You are then offered shitty government programs as an alternative, which can disqualify you for an infinite number of infinitely stupid reasons, thus criminalizing your very existence!
As for being shot: don't trespass, try to rape, or else otherwise disrespect the farmers, and they'll generally leave you alone. Also, stay out of Chicago and Detroit. Those cities deserve to be razed.
Now that Soros' ideological allies have stolen so much wealth, courtesy of the banks being run by their cronies, they're using it to dramatically alter the housing market, so that run-down shacks are all that many can still afford, if even that!
The Snickers meme is stupid. Schools have, in some areas, tighter security than an airport. They're often just a barbed wire fence away from being prisons. Bring in either a gun or a Snickers bar, and you're likely on your way to prison. Heck, in some districts, young boys can be arrested for eating a Pop Tart, if it vaguely resembles a gun when half-eaten!
@RealMarek : I'd rather a dangerous acid like the Constitution Party, than a weak and leaky "container" like the GOP. A quote I've heard often: "If the Right did the right thing, the right way, for the right reasons, all the time... the Left would not exist. And there wouldn't be a left-right paradigm either. There'd be a way for things to be, and there'd be deviants who'd be dealt with. It'd be real simple."
All your doing is advertising that fact that you are a lazy welfare state drug addict. 52% of Americans live in middle income households in safe clean neighborhoods with higher salaries than the median wage in the UK. 29% live in lower income households. The poverty rate in the USA is 13.4% where as in the UK it is 23.2%. Taxes are definitely much lower in the USA as are many consumer products, energy expenses, etc.. People that live in drug infested crime ridden impoverished areas generally aren't making much effort to do anything with their lives. So your post just shows your lack of ambition. If you think you'd fall into the cracks, you're probably a drug addict criminal. That would also explain why you feel you can't pay for healthcare and need other tax payers to pay for your expenses.
Yeah. The Chinese recently did that too. Move the goal posts of what is considered middle class and what is considered poverty so thd statistics seem better.
@Guffrus Nationalized healthcare is only cheaper if you are extremely poor. If you make an honest living, the additional taxation is oppressively high. Going from 22-24% tax rate in the USA to 45% in the UK is crazy town. If what you get for that additional tax rate is nationalized healthcare, you end up paying maybe 8 times a standard health insurance premium. Really the only people that have a problem with healthcare in the USA are people that are between 50-65 years old. For everyone else it is very easy to get by with low insurance rates or medicare for the older people. People get squeezed right before they approach retirement though especially in that 60-65 age range.
@Redhead999 Whatever helps to fuel your delusions... I live in a metro of about 1.5 million people within an hour of another metro that is 6 million people and another metro that is 3 million people. An international airport is 15 minutes away. Every convenience I need is just around the corner. There are plenty of high tech jobs in commuting distance. in 22 years there have been 5 homicides in my city and no school shootings. I can leave the doors unlocked for months and go away and no one would rob my home or anything like that. I do alright financially and have a reasonable sized plot of land and home. I also have no state income tax, low property taxes due to green belt laws and can afford health care when I need it.
I think it would be more reasonable and accurate to say that healthcare is more expensive if you are extremely rich.
For the vast majority of people its going to be cheaper or about the same.
It's cheaper simply because of economy of scale and you aren't paying share holder profits.
But as i have already said the issue is the conflict of interest.
The US is also considerably more dangerous than the UK / a European country, the chances of being shot in traffic in Europe is essentially zero but there is a driving related shooting twice a week in the States and thats just traffic related.
It was the NHS that saved my five-year-old brother from death when he contracted septicaemia 15 years ago. It is the NHS which has treated my dad’s kidney condition for the past 24 years. It is the NHS which enabled my mother to donate a lifesaving kidney to my dad two years ago, and it was the NHS which funded life-changing spinal surgery for my mother. But above all, it is the NHS that has kept my dad alive throughout the past year of cancer treatment. And during all these hospital trips, the late nights, the surgeries and care, not once did anyone stop to ask the name of our insurance company. When the nurse sat and held my mother’s hand for 20 minutes after she had heard my father’s cancer diagnosis, she did not present us with a bill before we left the room. My 91-year-old grandmother was sent home from hospital in the US (in a taxi) after just 48 hours because her insurance company wouldn’t fund a rehab treatment for her eight broken ribs. She was told, “Broken ribs can heal on their own” – despite having osteoporosis and significantly reduced lung capacity. They didn’t even bother to send her home with adequate painkillers. One of the first bits of advice an American friend gave me was on a trip to the US “Never call an ambulance”. She told me to call her, and she’d take me to A&E. She said, “Unless you’re about to die, it’s not worth it. They’ll charge you $450 (£325) for the ride.” And no, that wouldn’t have been covered under the $2,000 (£1,440) health insurance plan I had been forced to buy. My American friend is now buried under a mountain of medical debt for a simple procedure, unable to take out student loans four years down the line.
@Guffrus Based on median US household income and average family health insurance costs for parents and children combined average Americans are dishing out 18% of their income for healthcare. Filing jointly they would be at a 12% federal income tax level at that income bracket. In the UK under that dollar amount they would pay 40% income tax. 40%-12%=28%. 28% is larger than 18%.
@Guffrus The US spends 17.1 per cent of its GDP on healthcare, while the UK spends 9.1 per cent. That’s $4,192 per head in the UK and $9,892 in the USA. There are 27 million uninsured Americans, but no uninsured Brits. These are the cold hard facts, but you Trump supporters would probably dismiss them as “fake news”.
You are also comparing 2 tax payers in the US vs 1 tax payer in the UK.
If a couple were both working they would both get their personal allowances, so their household would be able to bring in about £25k (about $37k or half of your stated median income (it is unclear to me if these figures are net or gross though)) without paying any tax at all.
@BeMuse To be clear about income tax in the UK, it works as follows:
You pay nothing at all on the first £12570
You pay 20% on the next £50270
Then you pay 40% on the next £99729
and 45% on everything after that.
However things start to get a bit muddy after you earn a total gross income of more than £125k as you start to lose your tax free personal allowance.
Here is an example:
If you earned $100,000 in the UK you would pay $23512.60 income tax and $7087.07 national insurance.
So your take home would be $69,400.33
Thats about 30% which is pretty similar to your stated 28% with the advantage that your healthcare does not expire at the end of the year and there is no financial incentive for the healthcare provider to deny you care.
Seems like a better deal for the UK to me and this is looking at relatively high earnings, obviously the deal is considerably better than that for the vast majority of people.
@Redhead999 Spending is all relative to income. Currency is all imaginary. Sorry to break it to you, but it's not real. It's not tied to anything... It is all about the good faith of the citizen to repay that debt at a later date. So whatever an average worker has to spend as a percentage of their income is the real cost burden. Income is tied to work time. As an individual you have to spend nearly double the time to get health care in the UK than you do in the USA. Time is your most valuable asset.
Not true at all. If all you have is time in the US you can't get healthcare, hell you can pay for health insurance in the US and still not get healthcare especially if the healthcare insurance company know you don't earn enough to afford a decent barrister.
@BeMuse If you are going to patronise people about the nature of fiat currency you should at least make sure you know what backs it and it sure as shit isn't anything to do with average joes making mortgage payments.
@Guffrus In the USA you don’t have to file a tax return as a single person under the age of 65 if you make less than $12,550 a year or $25,100 as a married couple. If you are single the tax brackets are as follows:
10% - $0 to $10,275 12% - $10,275 to $41,775 22% - $41,775 to $89,075 24% - $89,075 to $170,050 32% - $170,050 to $215,950 35% - $215,950 to $539,900 37% - $539,900 or more
as a married couple filing jointly those brackets change to
10% - $0 to $20,550 12% - $20,550 to $83,550 22% - $83,550 to $178,150 24% - $178,150 to $340,100 32% - $340,100 to $431,900 35% - $431,900 to $647,850 37% - $647,850 or more
You taxable income is your net income minus deductible items such as medical and dental expenses and contributions to health savings accounts to pay healthcare expenses when they arise. Yes that’s right, we pay lower tax rates when we either save for when we might be sick in the future and when we are actually sick and incur healthcare expenses. Other deductions include items such as state and local tax deductions. That’s right, not only is our sales tax much lower (around 7%) than your VAT tax, but we can deduct it from our taxable earnings. Some others are charitable contributions, mortgage interest, property taxes, moving expenses, school tuition and fees, student loan interest, contributions to retirement accounts for investments, educator expenses for spending money in a classroom or for continuing your education to improve the quality of education, travel expenses for the military, business expenses for performing artists, home office expenses, alimony payments, jury duty pay, losses from natural disasters, gambling losses, etc. Even winning an Olympic medal can get you tax deductions for serving your country as an athlete.
Additionally we receive tax credits which are subtracted from the calculated tax burden from above. So for example just for working you get an Earned Income Tax Credit which ranges from $1,502 to $6,728 depending on how much you earned during the year and how many children you have. If you are single and have zero children and earned $1-$21,430 then you will get the $1,502 credit. If you have 3 or more kids and earn a up to $51,464 during the year as a single person or $57,414 as a married couple you get $6,728 credit. So what this pretty much does is remove most or all of income tax for lower income families and it reduced the income tax burden for middle income families. We also get affordable care act premium tax credits for paying for health insurance premiums, tax credits for sick leave due to COVID-19, American opportunity tax credits for paying for our children’s college education, child tax credits, adoption tax credits for having or taking care of adopted children, energy efficient tax credits for investing in clean energy for our homes, electric plug-in vehicle tax credits for driving cleaner vehicles, lifetime learning credits for continuing to learn and improve job skills in a university or trade school setting, tax credits for the elderly or disabled, low income housing tax credits, etc. As you can see there are plenty of ways for the poor, the feeble, the ill, the charitable, and those who contribute to education, the arts, and a clean environment to pay far less taxes if any at all.
If you are self employed, then you are taxed on your net income after your deduct your business expenses which we are pretty liberal with. There are endless amounts of deductible expenses for small business owners.
@Guffrus Most currency is a debt based system (being that Russia has gone back to the gold standard and hopefully more will follow soon). It's backed by future promise of labor basically... Money is printed and enslaves the next generation to pay debt on imaginary money printed out of thin air by central bankers that offer nothing in exchange. Maybe you should take your own advice and go learn about how currency is created. That said, the USD specifically is more valued than others in the current era because we tied it to petroleum exchange. The only reason that holds true is because the American military has the ability to reach out and touch anyone that doesn't agree. Soldiers going to war to is all labor at the end of the day as well. So twist it however you want, it's still a debt call on the future promise of labor.
Isn't the Gold currency dependant on the availability of gold, so if some country with gold mines decided to flood the market with gold would the price if gold not drop maybe even cause a global crash?
@BeMuse I'm not sure where to begin with all this nonsense.
Firstly when you say net you presumably mean gross, as net means after tax.
But alright, so you list a whole bunch of stuff that you get tax breaks for etc, the tax credits for lower incomes was informative, its nice to see you aren't taxing people from the first dollar they earn.
There are equivilant benefits for pretty much everything you list there, the exceptions i can see are the paying for private tuition, wining medals and gambling losses, you dont pay tax on gambling winnings here so you can't offset your losses.
It is a little differently implemented though, you are getting tax credits which could lead to you getting money on zero income where as in the UK in many of these comparible variables you get money which is then taxable if applicable.
The major difference is the sales tax which is significant and you certainly pay less for fuel.
So, I tried doing some numbers based on the information you supplied and comparing it to the numbers i did for an income of $100k and it seems to me that the difference is about $3k in the US favour, but the sales tax will certainly make a difference as well.
But you have to then consider things like child birth which I believe costs something like $30,000?
You are also paying whenever you get sick and the fact of the matter is that you simply aren't covered for everything.
As I have said previously, the main reason that you think you are better off is simply because at this time you dont have any health problems.
I still think that the vast majority of people would be better off in the UK and the effect of the petrol dollar should not be underestimated; you can't really boast about your system when your primary export is violence, if that were not the case I think that things would be quite different even for you.
@Redhead999 Look up the r-process in nuclear astrophysics. Gold is a definitely a finite resource within a solar system. While there is still gold out there to discover orbiting around our sun an even among us on our own planet, you can't just print it out of thin air just because you say so. You have to find it, put labor and energy into mining it, refining it, transporting it, etc. Personally I don't hold any special feelings for gold specifically, but commodity backed currencies make sense because they are a store of value.
@redhead999Guffrus Gross revenue is your earnings before you deduct your expenses and your net revenue is your earnings after you subtract your expenses. I guess that’s nonsense to you… It’s not my problem you are not capable of making sense of something that a fifth grader can understand. So for example, a small business owner has an S corporation. That corporations net revenue passes through as taxable income for the owner of said S corporation, from which (s) he as an individual can take additional personal tax deductions and apply tax personal credits to reduce his or her personal tax burden. Go learn some shit and come back later.
I watched one of my Grandmothers live to 101. My grandfather lived to 95. My other grandmother is 95 today, she probably won’t see another birthday. They all had health problems in old age. The medical system in America accepted them for repeated hospital visits, rehab, medication prescriptions, surgeries, etc. until they decided they didn’t want anymore. They were never denied treatment. My father passed a couple years ago of a hemorrhagic stroke. An ambulance came to get him and rushed him to the hospital. They stabilized him and transported him to a second hospital for brain surgery which he got that night, he spent over two months in the ER with a team of doctors and nurses, tons of medication, physical and occupational therapy, etc. but he just didn’t make it. An infection took him in the end… That said, all medical bills were taken care of by the government and not a penny was left to pay. So the propaganda they push in your country isn’t really what happens in the USA.
To put that in perspective that time in the ICU is reported to be about $161,316 and brain surgery runs from $50,000-$150,000. Yet somehow a senior with medicare who was a veteran didn't have to pay one cent. Because the healthcare system is so expensive... They will tax you if you don't have any sort of insurance, but if you have medicare, VA benefits, a health insurance policy, etc. you pretty much get whatever you need whenever you need it with no waiting lists. As I said at the start, the people between like 60-65 are the ones that usually really get squeezed, but everyone else tends to make out alright.
@BeMuse Actually what both of us said is incorrect.
Gross is before everything.
Net is after everything.
So when you say net what you infact mean is 'taxable income'.
You would have a better idea what you were talking about if you ever bothered to consider that you might be wrong and checked your facts.
You can tell all the tales you want about what you think happened in one particular scenario if you want but the fact of the matter is that your health coverage comes with significant additional costs, some things are on plan and some things are not on plan.
I don't believe for a single moment that your grandparents didn't pay anything at all at any point for the care they recieved, you are just choosing to gloss over and ignore the costs they paid initially and instead want only to talk about end game once the caps and thresholds have been reached. So you are being dishonest, again.
Please stop pretending that there are not countless stories of people in the States who have paid into plans and who thought they had coverage whos lives have been completely destroyed by medical expences they could not ever hope to pay.
The only thing that people in the UK ever pay is a heavily subsidized flat fee for perscription drugs (£9.35), this does not apply to under 16's, over 60's, those with certain health conditions or those who are on income support etc. It doesn't matter if you have a single item or a whole bag of stuff you just pay once for one perscription and if for whatever reason you have a lot of different perscriptions you can buy a sort of package deal (£30.25 for 3 months or £108.10 for 12 months)
@guffrusfrus Yes we are talking about taxable income after all. That was inferred by the line of questioning by you, and the response to said questioning by me in relation to earnings of individuals and their tax burden. Standard microeconomics vernacular was used to communicate those responses since that was the subject of the conversation. I'm not talking about fishing nets... 99.9% of American business is small business and half the American population earns their living that way... Thus it is highlighted due to it's importance in the economy.
@BeMuse As you are not bright enough to realise this on your own, I will attempt again to educate you;
We seem to be having a problem of common language.
The more I look into this misunderstanding the more clear it becomes that gross and net are not infact clearly defined terms at all, even between business people in a single country.
In the UK we dont really have 'deductables', what we have are tax codes (for employees) so for most people here Gross would mean their income before tax and net would be after tax or 'take home pay'
Obviously if you have a business or are 'self employed' then you will have 'deductables' though we call them 'expences' but even then it appears to me that we use different terms to you (though I can't speak for everyone and actually have no idea how common or which terms people are using). The terms I would generally use would be 'turnover' which would be total income before expences and taxes, 'gross profit' so total after expences but before tax (this is what you are calling net) and then net income which is after expences and tax.
So you might believe you are using 'Standard microeconomics vernacular' but there A doesn't seem to be a standard and B the perceived 'standards' we have are different between the US and UK.
@guffruss You making statements that someone is wrong, when you don't understand basic microeconomic terms just makes you look like a fool. Stay dumb, it doesn't matter to me.
its call their comfort zone, in the UK they know what to expect, in the USA like when I was on a coach tour, every town or stop we made, it was the price of something plus tax plus gratuities, also take tipping, in the USA its almost a demand, in the UK they have to earn them
I think healthcare is way cheaper in the UK. It is the most important factor to consider. If I were to move to some other country, I would pick the UK over the USA.
Yeah, that's a try'd and true technique.. keep the masses in a consistently mild but constantly reinforced state of anxiety and or discomfort leaves us all prone to a covet based emotional focus. We're constantly seeking what we don't have, or believe we don't have, be it material possessions or strengths of character or diciplined ability. All in an attempt to meet culturally based expectations ingrained within us during our domestication process. The vast majority of us keeping secret the truth of our imperfect-ness from our fellow humans which I'm sad to say, are ubiquitously present throughout all of humanity. Idiots indeed.
We do not like how your taxes are organised they are not that much lower than the UK and we do not have a sales tax on top of the cost of the items, your heath care system sucks (yes ours may take a little longer but we do not get charged for essential things like ambulances and do not face a huge bill if we go to the ER for a minor injury), would not have an American car if I was paid too, and as for your larger houses - one strong wind and they head for the horizon.
I have lived and worked in America and even with the ability to go to a gun range when-ever, I'd still prefer to live in the UK
Not in the UK, and when I worked on the US the company I worked for was in the UK and took out insurance on me for over £2.5 million which included medi-vac to the UK.
Ah, yes, because you don't have crime or poverty in Europe. Well, enjoy your inability to obtain medical care because your government doesn't like what you posted on social media, and your everlasting Covid restrictions!
I mean the answer is obvious, no one in their right mind wants to live in America if they have lived somewhere that isn't a country struggling with much worse things. America is more last resort, or you have to go their to study some rubbish. Then as for a visit it's alright like that meme say's lol.
I am not patriotic but England is way better than America I would say to lots of other countries as well.
Just off the top of my head, with some exposure to our besties across the pond... Brits are not afflicted with the ubiquitous obsession of "bigger, better, faster, more" like we Americans.
It's funny so many rag on the USA because t try to mimic it's culture in many ways, the UK is no exception for it's love of American pop culture and reality TV. They like all other developed nations mimic it. UK is much like USA, but with less civil liberties.
The right to keep and bare arms, the right to free speech. What happened to Count Dankula again? He got arrested for having a dog give a Nazi salute? Sounds pretty lame and unfree to me. Y'all also got no go zones and Muslims grooming your girls and on live protecting them. Maybe you're into that though
Yes but not due to invaders of our country. The people that formed no go zones in UK have declared conquest and raped your girls en mass and even butchered you veterans in the street with nigh impunity. To add to the difference we have superior beaches, superior weather, superior sight seeing, more natural resources, more borrowing and spending power, more places to shop, more travel destinations, more geographic diversity, among other things
If you like violent crime rates 5× higher than the US, no freedom at all, taxes that are several times higher, a healthcare system that refuses to take care of you because there's no monetary incentive to do so, cucked guys who are too weak and cowardly to protect their mate from violent criminals, a system that refuses to lockup the most violent offenders in the name of political correctness, and Muslim child molesters, then the UK is for you!
Lol its safer to be in Ukraine right now than most US cities. Our healthcare system takes care of us, nobody here taking an uber to hospital because their health won't cover an ambulance. American men can't protect anything because they are too obese. American jails are crime factories where minor criminals learn to be better more violent criminals when they get out. Yet another mass shooter, no doubt a trump supporter.
England is more sophisticated they also have music from around the world and their fashion is highend too like France and I bet they dont have many gangs there.
@Jacadia You're ignorant. Sophistication is a subjective characteristic, and the majority of England is not James Bond... Every country has music from around the world. New York (beside Milan) is the fashion capital of the world. Lastly, England has a ton of gangs, including muslim gangs who abduct young (native) English girls. There are some areas in London the police won't even go... Tell me any US city which is the same?
Where I live in America there are not many obese people. America certainly has its problems but you seem to be taking the stereotypes and exaggerating them.
You can’t just say that someone In The Olympics is on drugs without any facts. If they were tested negative than you really have no reason to believe otherwise unless you saw the person take the drugs.
Many would welcome you. But neo-feudalist scum like Pelosi always ensure that we instead have to pick and choose only from low-skilled riffraff. They want to make us the giant slave colony / prison camp of the entire world.
Many have no clue what vigilance really means anymore. And without it, the price of liberty goes unpaid.
Home > Society & Politics > Questions > Why don't more British people move to the United States for the higher salaries, lower taxes, cheaper cars, and larger houses?
