To me, this seems to be a rather simple thing that everyone can agree to and schools can implement.
A few common sense things like a more substantial enclosure around the school making access by unauthorized personnel more difficult can be implemented quickly if it wants to be done.
Also, making sure classroom doors are tougher/more reinforced and locked makes sense to me.
•Why would you keep classroom doors unlocked in a school where nearly anyone off the street can just come walking in?
•Also, what’s the harm of door that is more reinforced or tougher so that it cannot be easily kicked down, broken down, etc. At least this gives more time to act and/or more time for help to arrive on scene.
These are just a few recommendations.
“BuTT, a skool isn't A pRIson.”
• Listen, this is where you keep your children. Do you really want to argue making the school harder for bad people to come invade it? Why would a parent argue this? Why would a teacher argue this? Again, especially in a school where anyone off the street can come walking in and go into any one of a hundred unlocked door. . . . Your child can learn and be safe while doing so. Everyone is safer actually, students, teacher, and other staff.
“BuTT waTT bout bannINg scaRY GunZ.”
•What about it? People tried banning alcohol. No one is banning guns. Maybe in a different US in an alternate universe.
When it comes to preventing more school shootings, why is there little to no talk over hardening the schools to make them less desirable targets?
What gets me with all these questions on schools and guns, is people do not find it strange to live in a country, where the ‘price of owning a firearm’ is that you must teach 5 year old kids what to do if there is an active shooter, where teachers need to be armed, where there is armed security on school grounds.
is there any other country on earth where this holds true?
I’m not even sure places like Russia, North Korea nor Iran have this type of thing.
Does it not in the slightest concern people that this is just wrong on so many levels?
The US has a problem that the people need to fix, it’s not a political one, the politicians love that it’s political, it gives them lots of coverage come election time etc. it keeps them in a job.
saying thing like removing weapons from those with mental health issues, well that’s a huge amount of serving and veteran military, and law enforcement who would not be allowed to own a weapon - Depression and PTSD figures among veterans and ex law enforcement are really high.
There must come a time when people actually think, how much is too much to own a weapon that we own for no real reason other than other people own weapons.
It needs to be taken away from politicians and people need to start coming up with workable solutions.
ban the entire sale of semi auto weapons over.22 without clear reasons to own one.
unless you are actively shooting loads of hugs etc, there is no reason to have one.
if you need one, then it’s a good 6 month to a year wait.
a complete ban of self loading or pump action shotguns that hold more than 3 rounds.
there is a huge world of pain coming to the US with the phasing out of the 5.56mm and it getting replaced by the 6.8mm round.
Make owning a weapon a fucking pain in the arse.
having to attend range once a year and pass an exam, safety, handling, accuracy, fail any and you loose your permit to own a weapon (who wants someone who cannot handle a weapon nor hit shit with it, actually owning one?)
Make it $1000 dollars a year to have a permit.
Make owning a weapon or being found in possession of a weapon without a permit a crime and rather than prison they do 12 months social community work and must have to satisfy a panel as to why no permit and review if upstanding citizen or not.
that way you can screen Brad from the hardware store from Bradley the meth head with a criminal past.
something needs done, the building FOBs as schools is crazy.
1. It's difficult. Security is always inconvenient, time-consuming, and restrictive. No one really likes it except on those rare occasions when it saves someone.
2. It's very expensive, and the layout of the school and grounds play a big role in that. Here in California, school grounds tend to be large and school buildings spread out. My high school had more than a mile of fence line - how much do you think it would cost to staff enough people to guard all that fence line?
3. Most politicians are not actually interested in solving these problems at all - events like this are used to convince the public to give them more money and power at the expense of the rights and wallets of the people, but no real effort is made to solve the problem in any practical way.
A dirty "secret" is that politicians will often instruct a few of their own party to vote against a law they are pushing for publicly so that the law won't pass, because they want to keep the issue alive instead of solving it - that way they can continue to campaign on the issue and raise money behind it.
Most people would be absolutely appalled by how politics actually works in practice, how little the politicians follow the rules during most of the process (the parts that most people don't pay attention to), and how contemptuous many of them are of their own constituents and supporters.
It’s a good few points plod. The biggest issue with locking doors though, is the problem of fire hazard... don’t want to trade one disaster in for another. Fire can spread in seconds.
Imagine losing the key, or forgetting the unlock combination, in a stressful situation. Disastrous.
If I had kids in the US I’m telling you 💯 my kids would be home-schooled. I would never feel safe handing my children over, in a country where so many of its population owns a gun.
Being British, i obviously lean towards the abolishment of guns. But I’m also aware of the climate, and I know not enough people will ever rule in favour of making this possible.
Personally, home schooling would be my answer, I’d get a job were I could work from home so I could have my children safe with me.
I know this in itself comes with complications. A surgeon for instance cannot work from home. But I’m not a surgeon, so if I was a parent. I would go for this option.
It is a valid concern but most school doors right now can only open from the inside. My doors at home are like that and it is a pain in the ass! I lock myself out at least once a week.
Because a place of fear is not a great place to raise children, especially since mass shootings in schools are extremely rare when you consider the total population of students. It would be an expensive waste of time and money, since very few of the children and adults would ever see a relevant situation. Think far less than 1%.
I for one wish my schools taught us self defense, and military combat tactics. I wish they armed us, and taught us how to clean/shoot a weapon as well. That would have been amazing.
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Do you really think everyone at the school will be in fear because there’s more of a tougher enclosure around the perimeter? My high school had this, yet it looked like it was just for show rather than being something actually effective.
I’m saying, reinforce the already present safeguards in the school.
I had a similar experience, and I hated some of it, but I also loved other things. I hated the sniffing dogs checking each of our bags and lockers. It felt like I was a prisoner, and I was being treated like a criminal. I still feel like I was subjected to illegal searches.
The metal detectors weren't such a big deal, and the police were not all patrolling us, so I really appreciate them. The police patrol our campus, and they make me feel safe.
At first, I hated the cameras. I hated being watched. As I aged, I realized that no one was watching the cameras, and they were used as a record of events to review criminal activities, and could be accessed for monitoring during emergencies. So I like them now.
I may be imagining something different than what you mean when speak of hardening enclosures. What exactly would that be? Like a stronger fence? Tall walls? Barbed wire tall fences? I'm not trying to berate you, just trying to imagine it.
I still believe that most of this would have very little benefit, as serious incidents are extremely rare, especially if you measure it by students effected over the entire population of students nation wide. It would be another expense in a tumbling budget.
All-in-all, I can imagine what you are proposing as actually being beneficial, especially the part about the doors.
Yes sure you can do that like you could set in place doors that could shut a hallway so that in an emergency case those door could secure a set of classrooms but you also have to find to a way to keep it open if there is no emergency or younger students still must be able to open them because otherwise it's not well functioning either. The only issue could be the price and you have to be quick to do that before the next mass shooter comes around. by the way there's a second reason to have such doors because also in cases of fire it could be used as a security method.
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There are a lot of common sense things that school districts can do in increase security and these things do not cost a lot of money. Upgrading the locks on doors and implementing a policy where only certain doors are unlocked during the day can go a long way towards securing a school building. The goal is to make a potential threat follow a specific path that will lead him or her to encounter an armed resource officer. I have visited many different schools and every single one of these schools had this type of thing as a policy. They seem very secure. Nobody can come in without going past a resource officer and nobody can leave with a kid unless it is checked out in the main office. This removes the problem of a non custodial parent taking the kid away.
I wager it is because it isn't popular, in part because of budgets. After all, how can you justify hiring guards, arming teachers or redoing all the entrances in the building to be exits only, when you can't even justify paying your teachers properly, getting adequate school supplies, updated textbooks or even good school lunches? You really can't. To my eyes, that would be as if me denying my child toys for years saying it is too expensive, and then I just splurge and buy myself a game system and new tv.
@embracethepain Which other developed countries need your advice on this topic?
Literally last week I went to my nephew's 5th grade graduation. Parents/people were all crowded in the lobby, waiting to get in. Should there be metal detectors? Pat downs? Which part of the original 2nd amendment ("well regulated militia") does your silly brain connect to these real life scenarios?
@embracethepain seriously... name another developed country you admire. Now imagine your dumbass going over there and telling them, "yo, i'm an American and i would really like to share my advice on gun rights and how it can improve your society!"
Because we didn't need to do that 25 years ago. In the almost 250 years of the republic, only in the last 23 years have we needed to worry about mass shootings like this... and the #1 change in the last 23 years? The ban on assault weapons expired in 2004 so now we have an abundance of military-style assault weapons designed for disciplined men in the military that are in the hands of ordinary undisciplined people.
Because funding companies with spending bills for school shootings just encourages more school shootings. It's a business model for criminals. School shootings are primarily a robbery. First through spending bills and second through charitable donations. It's always about the money... They are orchestrated. Take out the puppet masters and your problem is solved. Until then just place someone in each school that can respond immediately to a threat and put them down.
Still sleep huh solider... If you keep giving them money they will keep committing the crime. Here they are setting up charity fund raising pages before the shooting even happened.
The issue isn't schools being easily accessible it's schools being a target in the first place. It's multiple round guns being easily accessible. It's social media giving these men the attention that they want.
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What if the shooter gets their weapons illegally? Whether that be firearms, bombs, etc. A lot of mass shootings in general, have been committed by people who shouldn’t have firearms in the first place, whether they are mentally unstable, have an extensive criminal background, or the firearms themselves were retrieved illegally.
You can see there comes a point when making more and more laws and even banning things will have more diminishing returns.
If these style of guns were banned then getting them illegally would be incredibly hard and expensive. It's pointless talking about what ifs because the reality is if you ban these weapons 99/100 potential mass murderers wouldn't be able to obtain the weapon. Would they be able to obtain a different type of gun? Yes. Will that gun still kill people? Yes. Will it be able to kill as many people? No. That is the goal with banning of certain guns and implementing better gun control, its to control 1 who can buy guns and 2 how much damage the gun can do in the hands of someone looking to commit such heinous acts.
Yet other countries have done it with dramatic changes.
Think about the type of people who commit mass shootings. Think about their ages.
Drugs are far different to guns. You're also acting as if drugs are cheap... It's about $120 for a gram of coke.
On the darknet it's $2800 to $3600 for an ak 47. More if it needs to be taken across the boarder. That's while they are legal to buy. The cost is likely to increase when made illegal. For example on the black market in Australia it would set you back 15k.
Again the goal is to make it harder to obtain these weapons.
So, comparing the US to other countries never really made sense to me because it seems to me that there’s all sorts of reasons why certain crime is more prevalent in one country over another.
If you’re not for firearms, 2nd amendment, etc.
You’ll naturally think the reason is due to the US having more guns.
The only issue with this is that these people will usually stop right here and won’t look for other reasons because there’s no need for them to do so.
As we should all know now, there’s many countries that have banned firearms and their crime rate is very high.
Also, the US has certain freedoms that other countries don’t have, so it’s a trade off.
I would say, the less freedoms one country has the more authoritarian it will be.
Again. It's about prevention. Nothing we do is going to stop mass shootings from happening but that doesn't mean we should just accept that it happens. Gun control laws and an assault weapon buyback program will help at least some. Even if it stops 5 potential mass shootings. That's progress.
Banning semi automatic/military style weapons and accessories. Using a buyback system. Gun registration and licensing (registration would need to be renewed yearly). Extensive background checks and psychological evaluation. Guns only allowed to be sold in dedicated retailers (ie not Walmart). Ban the sale of guns online. Guns must be stored properly and safely. Unloaded in a safe, ammunition separate. You must take a gun safety course. Minimum 24hr hold on buying a gun (can't buy it and go home with it same day). When purchasing a gun /obtaining a license you are agreeing to random checks by police or someone else official who can come by your property at any time without notice to check you are storing your guns safely. Red flag laws. When obtaining a license you should have someone able to vouch for you being a responsible person (Like a passport).
@embracethepain watching you or your right-wing loonies try to explain this stuff to any sort of neutral global audience would be hilarious. y'all are good at repeating your talking points in the echo chamber of right-wing dingleberries, but the real world is trying to make progress.
@embracethepain your latest reply is somehow even less than the intellectual capacity of your own, your daddy's, your uncle's, and grandpa's dingleberries rolled into a ball. Well done.
it’s because the Democrats don’t want to prevent attacks on schools and want to use them to disarm law-abiding firearm owners and put US firearm manufacturers out of business. Even if those goals were. achieved, they’d like to use any further attacks to eviscerate civil liberties and basic freedoms.
There are several schools where I live. They seem to have lax security - no fences nor visible armed guards. This is not good in this day and age especially with all this mass school shootings. I love in Texas and the Uvalde shootings had everyone on edge. My understanding is that most schools don't have much when it comes to security measures... students and teachers are all sitting ducks for any nut job with a gun.
@OldWorldOrder Okay americas are way too crazy about their guns. It’s so stupid. If taking away a device that kills so many people will start a civil war then that just proves how dumb Americans are.
@OldWorldOrder I’ve talked to so many people from where I’m from that have been to America multiple times. They said that it’s a 3rd world country and there’s not even proper drinking water in some parts.
Correct. It is de-volving into a 3rd world country. Our major cities are more like a Latin American or Middle Eastern city than a European or even Asian city. The people here are stupid and mentally unstable.
Civil conflict is inevitable. Might as well kick it off now with an attempted mass disarmament of the civilian population.
Yeah, it's scary. But war isn't the worst thing in the world. Things like divorce and alcoholism do a lot more damage to human civilization than war does, because they destroy people's souls, not just their bodies.
@Sabretooth Right. I guess Russia was obligated to allow Zelensky to destroy the Budapest Memorandum, host first-strike nuclear weapons on behalf of NATO, and send the JFO into Donbass and Crimea. Lol
Thankfully, Russia and Company are through arguing with you idiots.
@OldWorldOrder even Russians don't support the war. but, if you support the suffering--the murders, the raps and the out and out torture innocent civilians and in some cases, children... you're not worth my time.
It's a pity they have spent so much on investing in Driverless Taxi Cabs, when the technology being worked on SHOULD of been, how to disable a firing mechanism from distance!
@Jamie05rhs that's not entirely accurate, no... not every military post the USA has abroad is a war zone
Japan is a good example of that
and still, not all military bases within the USA have been targeted by insiders, just look them up a bit and you'll realize that
besides that, the point here is that even those who are supposed to be in charge of security, they can also snap due to stress or other circumstances and do the damage themselves
also, you cannot rule out the possibility of mental people with power trips and nefarious intentions to pretend to be same, get those jobs as guards... and then do the shootings themselves
which is something that also happens already, but with other circumstances
Trying to bring up the fact that shootings have occurred in military bases, to disprove that better security at schools is a bad idea to prevent or lessen the harm of a potential mass shooting….. Well……
It’s like saying, people have died at hospitals or have died while taking medicine, so you shouldn’t go into a hospital or take medicine because you may die even though it is literally the most common sense thing a person can do……
"also, you cannot rule out the possibility of mental people with power trips and nefarious intentions to pretend to be same, get those jobs as guards... and then do the shootings themselves"
You also can't rule out the possibility of pedophiles adopting kids. Does that mean we should end all adoptions?
Because America has more pride than brains. She is too vain and narcissistic to ever make a tacit admission to the world that she is no longer a 1st world country.
Theory: Teach the human race not to shoot at humansFact: we have no control over this situationThe only possible way out is to use sense and sensible solutionsMaybe in 50 years, if things like the weapon laws in US continue in the present form...
Home > Society & Politics > Questions > When it comes to preventing more school shootings, why is there little to no talk over hardening the schools to make them less desirable targets?
