What is your opinion of the Mike Pence Rule?

[KelleyNice]

Pence's rule dictates that he does not dine alone with any woman or attend any event where alcohol is served without his wife.

Updates

+1 y

I suppose appearances matter. Tongues will be wagging if a married man has a drink or a meal with another woman. Likely, it's far less often than we led to believe but rapes and sexual harassment does happen so in certain situations women should be cautious. Also, occasional there are false accusations resulting in innocent men going to prison or having their lives severely damaged. Therefore, it may be prudent for men to take reasonable precautions.

[MikeInHawaii]

It’s also known as The Billy Graham Rule. His organization has practiced it for decades. It follows the Biblical admonition to “avoid even the appearance of evil.”

If you lived in my neighborhood and wanted help with your algebra homework, I’d be more than happy to help. You’d have to meet me either in public, like a coffee shop, or in the presence of an adult relative. A 13-year-old crossing the threshold of my apartment would be out of the question, even though you would be perfectly safe with me.

1) I don’t want the appearance of impropriety.

2) Even though they would be safe with me, I don’t want girls to get into the habit of being overly trusting of men.

[abc3643]

I am fine with it. As he is a religious man, that is understandable.

[MzAsh]

It’s a good idea for him, since he’s so fixated on women and every little thing they do.

[uncleBobbyb77]

I'd say it seems like a good general rule to follow and adversely women should be careful to not put themselves in a position that allows that sort of event to occur. Also the penalty for a false accusation of the sort described should be as harsh as the penalty for being found guilty as the accusation and the label that comes with it never goes away even when not guilty and can negatively change lives in a permanently nasty fashion. Either action is unacceptable and covering one's own ass is always a smart move. That being said trust between husband and wife is paramount and she should know what type of man she's married to. If she's confident he's not the type to stray as far as she's concerned whom he has lunch with ought to not be bothersome. Still I respect the respect it shows towards the wife's feelings as well as the wish to avoid scandal especially if your already a crooked politician (as most whom are successful at it tend to be)

[TheBigWhistle]

It screams I can't trust myself to dine in the presence of another woman or attend an event where alcohol is served because i may not be able to control what I do/ and or my wife does not trust me in those situations and I don't want to give her any reason to worry.

He was Vice President of the United States. He can't go to some dinner where they serve wine unless his wife goes? The reason he gives speaks to an incredibly cynical and deep mistrust and dislike of women which is very sad. He's just really pathetic but we knew this already. Who else would still be loyal to Trump after Trump was happy to have the January 6th mobs string him up?

[AmandaYVR]

This.

[Guy__]

How do you know a politician is lying? Their lips move...

[MikeInHawaii]

Those rules also protect men from false allegations. Events where alcohol is served might make one more susceptible to false allegations. The rule makes sense.

[Guy__]

@MikeInHawaii
It may be a very good rule. Politicians aren't good though. They say the good thing for the wrong reason.

[MikeInHawaii]

@Guy__ unless they’re writing, then they lie without moving their lips.

[TheBigWhistle]

@MikeInHawaii The rule makes sense? OK, I hope you're sitting down cause this might make your head explode. Men, yes men, are just as capable of claiming sexual harassment and/or an inappropriate action by another man as women are. In fact, if the intent is to make a false claim to gain something, a claim of sexual misconduct with homosexual overtones would be much more effective as blackmail than it would be from a woman. The allegations even if not proven, could put a stain on someone's reputation for years to come. And we've all seen religious figures, anti-gay politicians and others caught in police stings playing footsie in airport restrooms and proven to have molested people under their care. The huge on-going scandal in the Catholic church wasn't about priests molesting girls now, was it?

And the fact is that women are much less likely to make a claim even if true because they are more likely to be disbelieved, have their life overturned and their reputation smeared. Did you not understand the whole point of the Me-Too movement? The fact is, the vast majority of accusations are true.

Let's just call it what it is. This right wing conservative belief that only women are capable of making false claims, and that every woman should be suspected of being willing to make a false claim and men need to act accordingly to avoid it, is at its very core, proof of what we all know, deep down Republicans are ANTI-WOMEN,

[Agagagagaga]

No, it screams “I don’t want a baseless allegation of sexual assault thrown my way by a woman trying to shake me down for a payout.”

But I know, he’s an evil Republican. 🙄

[Guy__]

Pence is afraid of saying the real shit which will 1) Make liberty lovers think he's crazy, 2) he will be said to mysteriously commit suicide.

[TheBigWhistle]

@Agagagagaga And that's part of how you view women as a gender and part of your completely fucked up mentality, believing every women is a threat to do that and no women can be trusted. It's sick.

But don't worry. You're not a public figure and I would imagine very few women are queuing up to have meetings with you so they can shake you down for a payout even though I would imagine there's not much of a payout to be gained.

Your morning donuts are safe and you'll never have to share them with anybody else. Yaaaay.

[TheBigWhistle]

@Agagagagaga And as i just got done saying, a false allegation could just as easily come from a man but he doesn't have any rules about that, does he? That says all you need to know about how they view women. *mic drop*

[MikeInHawaii]

Don’t flatter yourself; nothing you could possibly say would make my head explode.

IBM had policies like the Billy Graham rule 60 years ago. To prevent theft, no one was supposed to work alone. You could have two people of the same sex or three women.

A lot of schools won’t allow one teacher to be alone with one student.

I know a mall that had rules their Santa was never alone. He had a private bathroom available and was not to use the public bathroom. He had another employee with him at all times.

I’ve tutored teenage girls in math. Should I continue to only meet them in public, or am I a misogynist for not inviting them over to my apartment?

[TheBigWhistle]

@MikeInHawaii You're really referencing an IBM policy from 60 years ago? Really? You know some other policies from 60 years ago? Blacks couldn't go to the same school or drink from the same fountains as whites. Women were not allowed to work in certain jobs cause it wasn't considered ladylike. You really want to take us back to 1962? And all your other examples are related to being with children, CHILDREN. Not 2 adult professionals meeting over dinner in a restaurant to discuss a piece of legislation or a political issue. As far as tutoring students, you should meet them wherever the norm is for tutors meeting their students. And I would imagine your examples of Santa and tutors and teachers meeting students were not forbidden if the students were girls but A-OK if the students were boys. No, they applied to all children cause it was the person's age that was the key factor, not their gender and we put additional safeguards in place for young children to protect them, boy or girl.

Thanks for your examples which only prove my point further that this is a ridiculous gender based rule with little to no basis in fact and at the core of it is men hating and not trusting women.

Let's get real. For years and years powerful men took advantage of women and demanded sexual favors in return for jobs, or contracts or movie roles that these women were totally qualified for when they had no right to. The unwritten understanding was, you get the job and I get sex with you. Keep quiet about it and we'll be just fine. Refuse and I'll ruin you. Well, women finally got to the point of feeling this isn't right and I should be able to say so. All your witnessing now with this stupid rule by Pence and others is "break our little unwritten agreement, open your mouth and now I'll make it extremely hard for you to get access or I'll deny you access altogether. That's all this pig is no matter how much lipstick you try to put on it.

[MikeInHawaii]

You rant and rave like a typical liberal. 1962 was also the year before the “I have a dream speech.” It’s the typical, cliched, “everything I disagree with is racist (or misogynistic)” nonsense. I’m no fan of Mike Pence. I’m discussing the Bill Graham Rule which predates his political career. You could just as easily argue it’s anti-male since it says men can’t be trusted around women.

Some of the same rules and procedures protect both men and women. Having a third person present makes both parties less likely to make a false harassment complaint, but it might also make them less likely to commit any harassment.

[AmandaYVR]

Welcome to gag, Whistle. You are a breath of fresh air, I must say. I'm almost excited.

[TheBigWhistle]

@MikeInHawaii "You rant and rave like a typical liberal."

LMAO. You confuse "ranting and raving" with someone calmly, methodically and frankly, fairly easily poking holes in your ridiculous arguments and showing every example you cite is irrelevant and not germane to the discussion at hand. You guys just can't stand being made to look foolish by a "Lib" yet you make it so damn easy, it's not even much of a challenge.

Like this new hole I'm about to poke. You claim "You could just as easily argue it’s anti-male since it says men can’t be trusted around women." and I would happily, if that's what they were saying. But that's not what they are saying. Every explanation for the rule is because of the fear of falsely being accused of rape or sexual assault BY WOMEN. Nowhere is there any mention that this rule is to also to protect women cause "we men are just desperate horndogs with a lack of self control and can't be trusted not to try to grab a tittie or squeeze a little butt cheek of an attractive women in a business meeting." You show me an instance where Mike Pence or anyone else has said that's also a key reason for this rule and I'll be happy to argue it's anti-male. But we both know that's not why they have the rule. They have the rule cause they are suspicious of and don't trust women. ALL women.

And don't think I haven't noticed you haven't even addressed my point that men can make accusations of rape or sexual assault against other men and why don't the Mike Pences of this world have rules about having meetings alone with other men? Got a good answer for that? And don't even try "well men would never do that."

What you're really arguing is that in 2022, two professionals can't have a business dinner if they are of opposite genders without a freaking chaperone like they're 15 year old high school freshman. You guys seem intent on taking society back to the 1960's, not just with this but with everything else. Let's see how that works out for you.

[TheBigWhistle]

@AmandaYVR Thanks. I try to stick to the other sections and try to avoid politics cause the profound stupidity here just makes my head hurt and it's just easier to watch and laugh at them as they all jerk each other off about how smart they are and how the crazy libs are. But sometimes, something just needs to be said. LOL.

[AmandaYVR]

I totally get it. It's mostly futile. But sometimes you briefly think there may be a point to trying...

[Guy__]

Libs are dumb. Cons are dumb. Because each is missing the good part the other has to offer.

[MikeInHawaii]

I have electronic chaperones with about everything I do. I drive vehicles with GPS monitoring. I make business calls on recorded lines. Every keystroke on my work computers is monitored. I fill out ridiculous amounts of paperwork. I had a previous employer question the amount of fuel receipts I was turning in, even though none were within the capacity of my car (>11 gallons), my car doesn’t run on diesel fuel, and I drove a hybrid and lived three miles away. Employers don’t seem to trust people in any other context.

I’m not sure how employers would react to complaints of homosexual harassment. They’d probably accuse me of being homophobic. At one airline where I worked, a pilot was complaining about sharing a hotel room with a male flight attendant. He was worried about being fired if he said it was because he was gay.

They probably just figure those complaints are less common.

I’ve been told Delta Air Lines only seats unaccompanied minors next to women. Women can definitely be perverts, but they’re thinking their odds are better.

[TheBigWhistle]

@MikeInHawaii I know a lot of people who work in a lot of different industries and that level of employer scrutiny is extremely rare. Companies have the right to monitor computers in the event there is a charge of harassment or theft or some other misdeed but I don't know any who monitor every keystroke or record every employee's phone call or have electronic devices to monitor every single thing they do. Maybe that's a function of a level of discomfort they have with you personally, maybe it's policy due to a number of employee issues they've had in the past or maybe it's just common for that industry. I don't know. But I do know it's definitely not normal and it produces a toxic environment of mistrust going both ways and an us against them atmosphere. If I was consulting with them on how to have a positive employee environment, I would question why all of these things are necessary.. Again it seems like a work environment and culture from the 1960's which maybe has helped formed some of the trust issues you have expressed here.

As far as Delta is concerned, if it's true they sit UMs next to women, then in their mind a woman is more stable, more dependable and trustworthy not to do anything crazy and more professional in their behavior. Interesting that Delta thinks that about women but Mike Pence has the opposite view and thinks every woman is a threat to make a false claim for some sort of gain. But thanks for sharing that Delta basically acts in a manner that confirms just about everything I have said. They clearly get it.

[MikeInHawaii]

The level of scrutiny I got working in aircraft operations was required by the FAA. I also worked in the FedEx hub in Memphis. With billions of dollars worth of stuff going through there every night, there were probably thousands of cameras.

People who follow the Billy Graham rule are not saying all women will file fake sexual harassment claims any more than Delta is saying all men are degenerates. They’re out there, though. It is a layer of protection from them.

And the rule protects women from harassment, not from me, I won’t harass them, anyway. But it might protect them from other men.

Think of it like the police body camera. Complaints against police officers drop dramatically when they are in use. Whether this is due to keeping cops on their best behavior or disproving false claims, who knows? The electronic chaperone accomplishes something.

[TheBigWhistle]

@MikeInHawaii Not everybody is getting shot in the streets but it could happen so maybe everyone needs to wear body armor just for that extra layer of protection.

It's a layer of protection they feel they need from a class of people they fundamentally don't trust and are suspicious of. There's really no other way to interpret this.

I've said everything I need to say on this topic. Have a good one.

[Chazmatazz269]

Good rule! Some men have switched from female assistants to males, and insist on every single meeting with a female peer or subordinate being in a group setting. Some have removed doors from their offices or installed high quality surveillance cameras and microphones. It’s only prudent to protect yourself from predators.

[MCheetah]

That's so f*cked up, that this is what society has come to. I'd sooner never hire women at all, than do that. I don't give a f*ck what Twitter says about it; I wouldn't ruin my company in the name of "diversity." Or, at best, I'd only hire lesbians.

[Chazmatazz269]

Even lesbians can file a false accusation. This isn’t a sexuality issue. It’s a power issue. In the public eye, women have significantly more power than men. “Believe all women” has needlessly destroyed hundreds of lives and livelihoods, possibly thousands, and they’re not even close to being done. The left is leaning into fascism, fast and hard.

[Anonymous]

I think any one with half a brain clearly knows what Pence is saying (and a lot of women would benefit from this advice). He's simply saying USE YOUR HEAD. Avoid potential compromising situations. If she appears to be a woman of questionable character be aware of danger she poses. And don't let her get you in a exploitative position. I for example worked with a woman that I saw her vindictive nature. Whenever I was around her I was ALWAYS on my guard. Because I didn't put it past her that she WOULD use her gender against me if given the opportunity. Sure enough one day she tried. Fortunately by then her credibility was shot.

[TonyMetal___86]

I support his rule, why would a man have a dinner with anyone if his wife ain't present unless they were all men!
Also wether there is alcohol or not, the wife should be present wherever he goes...
It's not because she have to but because it will be womderful to have his with him everywhere...

[Uannoyme]

It's a good policy. It eliminates any opportunity for false allegations. It's probably good for his marriage as well.

[AmandaYVR]

It's ridiculous. It's fear-based and I don't agree with it at all.

So much for 'how far we've come' as a society where men and women colleagues can be expected to act professionally. It shows no faith in people whatsoever.

[KelleyNice]

For certain, men and women are different; and, regardless of what is legal, at times they must be treated differently. If a company send two men or two women on a business trip, to conserve cost they may require or only pay for one room with two beds. That would never happen if it is a man and woman.

[AmandaYVR]

Well of course they should be given separate hotel rooms. That is entirely different than a meeting in a restaurant or event.

[exitseven]

exactly, we are going backwards and you really cannot trust the system to treat you fairly.

[KelleyNice]

If they arrive separately and leave separately meeting in a restaurant is fine. However, if they go on a trip together they can't account nor will there be witnesses for all their time. Almost never will anything happen but companies may prefer to not take the risk. It is not fair that a woman should be excluded. However, other than having someone take them to the airport and remain with them until they board the plane and have someone meet them when they depart the plane and take them to separate hotels, they can't completely eliminate the risk and that would cost extra. The company could also eliminate risk by having them take different flight and to stay in different hotels. However, that too would cost more.

[StrongMale]

Hi Amanda. You are correct, it is fear-based. What do you think of this: I would never meet with a woman in private because of the “fear” that she could accuse me of anything and there is no way for me to disprove her claim. Just wondering what your thoughts are on that.

[Agent_Elflord]

I agree with it, though it’s too restrictive to me. Granted, I’m not married or a public official, but I don’t make passes at women I don’t know and I respect the boundaries of another person’s relationship.

[purplepoppy]

I can smell the paranoia from here. I can understand that if you don't get along with a woman but then why would you be associating with her anyway. He's doing nothing more than reflecting the childish fears of mgtows and inches to get their support

[Agagagagaga]

George Foreman recently had women alleging sexual assault against him from 40 YEARS AGO.

Sorry but you harpies will tear a man’s life apart the minute you need some cash.

[MCheetah]

@purplepoppy
You believe this is being paranoid. Yet you also believe (rom a separate post) any woman can be raped or assaulted by any man and that men are inherently dangerous to most women. So which one is it? Men are paranoid, or men are dangerous?

All I know is, I wouldn't hire women if I owned a business, and it's not men's fault why I wouldn't.

[NewsReader]

Wait a minute, I remember some old guy saying the same thing shortly after the misandristic MeToo crap. I think that's smart and every man should follow that rule. Stay safe guys.

[MCheetah]

It's a damn good rule and I mostly agree with it, but it's impossible to fully follow, because half of all human beings are women and you can't escape them 24/7.

[Guy13]

Those were the Billy Graham rules beforehand, by the way 😎

[Guy13]

Bill I Graham searched every hotel room, venue, etc. Made certain this/that were not on premise.
A proper handler, which is his wife, is paramount.

[MikeInHawaii]

It was one of Graham’s employees who would verify a hotel room was empty before he set foot in it. All you need is a woman in neglige and a paparazzo planted in the room and there’s a million dollar photograph.

[HighValue]

It is a good idea since false accusations are much more common that many people will admit. Plus since he is famous, people would have even more to gain from accusing him of something.

[exitseven]

He has a point given the way politics are today. Anything that can be taken out of context probably will be.

[dustybiker]

He’s always been weird. Often wondered where the batteries go.

[Summeroflove]

I don’t care what he has to say anymore. I think he’s disingenuous

[007kingifrit]

it's not for me, but it's ok that he does it

[Agape93]

I would say he should take that stick out of his ass, but i wouldn't want to upset his rabbit

[Anonymous]

This kind of thinking has been a common response to the metoo campaign, and other trends, which have been needlessly destructive to some people's lives as others have weaponised them.

[TacosRAwesome]

I dont think it's a terrible rule to live by.

[Googlemyahoo]

Probably find out later he’s kept in a box wearing a gimp suit with ball gag

[Makeushiver]

I don't think he has much self control or he worries about other people's perception.

[DWornock]

Because of the risk of false charges, t is a good rule if defined as men need to be careful about being alone with women.

[Anonymous]

Looking through the comments, it seems the only people who criticize this rule is women, which reinforces the wisdom of it.

[Fa1con]

It is a good way to ensure you will never have even the appearance of certain wrongdoings.

[HaveNoName]

Hmmmm.. so he is fine if his wife and alcohol are served ? Very interesting !!!

[TroyDT]

It is wide, especially for politicians with how toxic the environment is now.

[Twalli]

The reason he says that is due to religion, not to avoid rape allegations

[Anonymous]

I'm currently single but I still follow that rule. It's just wise for men these days. Too many possible "pitfalls" with modern women.

[JesseJayNeak]

I don’t approve of Mike Pence’s betrayal but, in this MeToo era, you can’t take any chances

[Snakeyes7]

Given the psychotic SJWs, it's a genius plan.

[888theGreat]

Great, but he is a wimp politically. He can debate well.

[Anonymous]

I give Mr Pence the kudos. A true Christian with strong principles. If Mr Pence runs for president's office I would be glad to give him my support.

[QuietRunner]

It is a very good rule to follow

Very Islamic

[jimmy2]

He could have help Trump so I think he out to wash he done

[TheBigWhistle]

But help Trump, he have to do illegal, and no way allow constitushun for it and jail he go to with court not think it very nice so he think what best do and make sure no women unless wife there.

[Anonymous]

Good way to avoid impropriety or false accusations.

[BCA6010]

It's a good rule to live by.

[Dargil]

I follow that rule without even knowing it.

[Emma_Walker]

good idea to be honest

[Avicenna]

It's a good practice

[macjets007]

My opinion is he has a stick up his ass lol

[KrakenAttackin]

It is a very smart rule.

[joeldalton]

Don’t blame him.

[Pterodon]

Smart

[OddBeMe]

Idiotic.

[eagle1951]

smart man