The Trolley Problem: What would you do?

[bzcxx]

For those who have no idea what that is, the trolley problem is a thought experiment is psychology and philosophy.

The problem:

A train is going down a track. The brakes of the train is broken. On the track that the train is on, four men are working on he tracks. They all have headphones on and will be unable to hear if you call them out. The train is fast approaching, and if nothing is done, the 4 men WILL die. Meanwhile, you notice a lever next to you: you could pull it to divert the train onto a side track where ONE man is working on (also wearing headphones and unable to hear you).
So then, what would you do? Would you pull the lever, sparing the five men but killing the one? Or would you let nature take its course?

Of course you could subscribe to Jeremy Bentham’s take on utilitarianism where you would pull the lever to maximise “utility”.

NEXT QUESTION - for those who decided to pull the lever, sparing the 4 but killing the 1:

Imagine now a different scenario: You’re standing on top of an overhead bridge. The train is still going down the same track where the 5 men are working on. You could decide to PUSH the fat man over, killing him but stopping the train in its tracks (before reaching the 5 men). Would you do it?

I know some people would say that the deliberate act of PUSHING a man can’t be compared to pulling a lever.

So the final question is: Now the fat man is standing on a trap door (on the overhead bridge). You could push the level, opening the trap door causing the fat man to fall right into the tracks, stopping the train.

What’s your take on this problem?

(Image is depicted slightly differently from the the scenario I just mentioned).

[Rosexøxø]

I’m going to assume this lever is adjustable. I would rapidly pull and push this lever to cause the train to violently shift from side to side, and try to use this method to bring it to a violent stop, way before it could reach the unsuspecting men on the tracks, or (if the shifting doesn’t work) pull it violently, so that it falls over and I would brace for impact.
The train is clearly the problem. I’d hope I wouldn’t die, so maybe (depending on speed/ and how thick the train is) I may have to pull the lever and jump off the train. Whichever seemed like less impact, and a higher chance of my survival.

Point is: There has always got to be a way. Thank goodness for the lever- a mechanical tool. I need to think more about the other scenarios because the use of a human as a tool to save others is not only ridiculous, but I would do my best NOT to decide the importance of lives. I can’t pretend there are other objects around because it’s not stated like the train and lever scenario.

[Rosexøxø]

Edit: Scenario two. If the man is on the train with me, I don’t see why he’s suggested to be pushed. I would consider throwing luggage and our clothes lmfao. Try to clog up the wheels and slow us down. IF there somehow was no lever in this similar situation of scenario two. Just because there’s a fat man doesn’t mean I’m gonna say “hey! Bloody hell! How much do you weigh? I think we can use you as an anchor or air bag!” 🤣😭👌

I misread scenario two and now know I am OFF the train and next to this other innocent BYSTANDER. I would jump off the bridge (maybe ask the fat guy to join or give me his clothes if he doesn’t)

[Rosexøxø]

@rosexøxø
Land and try to roll a bit but not too much (parkour jump and land) and continue to reach the front end of the train, see if I can get close enough to the bottom of the train car in the front, or the side.

Then proceed to toss the knotted/ balled up/ tied clothes to the front of the car and towards the wheels.

I’d brace once that happened and if the train started slowing, I’d stand up and prepare myself to jump right at the moment where the train was a foot from the people on the tracks.

Depending on their positions, I would body slam them off the side of the tracks so we all fall in the grass, or I would try to swing myself around the side of the train so I could use my body to knock them off the tracks. As many as I could of course.

I would hope physically I would fall in their direction and not back on the track.

I could fall backwards hit and scrape myself a bit on the side of the train and proceed to fall with them (some or all) on to the grass and to safety.

Anyways, it could sound unrealistic, but I’d ultimately try, and work with physics to save those people’s lives.

Take into account wind gust of clothes, how they land under the car. Maybe not toss them, but tie them into one long rope of clothes and start to feed it through the bottom. Maybe attach my sneaker to the end for weight.

I’d try anything not to let those people die. Id rather sacrifice myself, but in al honesty I’d rather not die either lol. There ha shot to be a way, and I’d live in peace at least knowing I tried.

[purplepoppy]

Legally if you do nothing then you're not Legally responsible for the deaths. But, if you kill one man, even though your actions save the majority, simply by intervening you could be open to prosecution.

I know in the UK if a train driver witnesses a given number of deaths they get retired on a full wage for life. So I could see the temptation just to let the five men die.

[NathanDavis]

scenario 1...

I wait till the train reaches the bifurcation... and then I pull the lever, causing for the train to derail, go on it's side... now it is lethal mass of metal out of control covering both tracks... so all the workers on both tracks die

scenario 2...

I wait for the train to pass under the bridge, after it kills the men on the tracks, I do push them fat man over the bridge, now they are all dead

scenario with trap door...

I pull the lever so the fat man drops, but he gets stuck... then I start to stop and jump on top of the fat man, so it finally falls, and dies, first or before the train kills all the workers on the tracks as well

[God_of_Thunder]

I do nothing at all.

If I intervene, then I am complicit in the murder (s) of either a single person, or multiple people, due to the fact that my actions directly lead to their death (s).

By not acting, I am simply an unfortunate witness to a horrible tragedy. Sure, it sucks, but at least I am not directly responsible for those men dying.

They work on train tracks, so it was their responsibility to remain safe & vigilant. The fact that they chose to wear headphones, rather than be aware of their surroundings does not justify my intervening, and mudering someone else.

[bzcxx]

The headphones are safety requirements to protect their eardrums (due to loud construction sounds like pilling).

[God_of_Thunder]

Then they should have a spotter, watching for trains.

[bzcxx]

It’s a thought experiment for a reason, you’re not meant to find fault with the small details 😂

[God_of_Thunder]

I understand that, but that is actually how I would act, in that scenario. I'm not going to cause the death of someone by interfering.

I'm simply letting the natural course of events play out. The workers' irresponsibility does not justify taking the life of someone else. That isn't fair, and their lives are not more valuable that his. Especially when they should have been more aware. 🤷‍♂️

[bzcxx]

Fair enough. That’s actually my answer to. I believe I don’t have the right to decide who lives and who dies. All I can do is be an observer and hope for the best.

[jshm2]

Actually, there are many different scenarios possible. Like rolling the train and killing yourself, to save the five.

But it's an experiment in conjecture and attitude, like all thought experiments are.

Such as "How would you fight a horse sized duck?"

[AviatorTom]

I'd let nature take its course and do nothing. Changing the natural timeline is fraught with unknown consequences. For example, maybe the fat man, if he lives, is destined to become UN Secretary General who negotiates a peaceful settlement that avoids nuclear holocaust. If he dies, the world could end in one big series of explosuons.

[WhitneySnow]

Too complicated lol. I know who Jeremy Bentham is though. English philosopher who invented utilitarianism. And a good friend of Adam Smith, another English philosopher who invented capitalism.

[Daniela1982]

So, are you saying a "fat" person could stop a trolley? Throw a railroad tie on the track and stop it that way, with no one being killed.

[bzcxx]

It’s a thought experiment. You’re not meant to come up with ways to beat it. It’s either you pull the lever or not.

And yes the fat person could stop the trolley (in this thought experiment)

[bzcxx]

But thank you for answering :)

[TroyDT2]

I won't take an action that will intentionally kill another who is not threatening me or another. So the four are screwed.

[DoctorSex]

I'd start praying. If the lever doesn't shift by itself.. may God's will be done.

Lol

[Jamie05rhs]

Sorry, but not even an obese person could stop the train in time.

[bzcxx]

You don’t understand what a thought experiment is then

[Anonymous]

Just let them die. Apparently I'm a murder anyways 😂

[Agape93]

Just watch the mayhem

[slatyb]

Take the bus.

[Anonymous]

Tldr