Are You FOR or AGAINST Arming School Teachers and Paying Them More For It?

[Physics-Man]

For

Against

[Avicenna]

Former teacher here and supporter of Second Amendment rights.

You do not want firearms and ammo in classrooms. What happens when students disarm a teacher? Don't forget how much a teacher already has to keep track of at any given moment and their close physical proximity to students.

Few teachers would want to be armed in their classroom and most school districts already have a hard time attracting and retaining teachers. Imagine how many you'll lose if they know colleagues are armed on school property, let alone if they're required to get a CCW permit and keep track of the firearm when they aren't in the classroom (as is the case for the vast majority of armed security officers).

It's much better to have the armed personnel be police or trained security officers who guard the perimeter of the school. There obviously needs to be physical limits on access as well.

[monorprise]

@Avicenna You will get use to guns, 60 years ago nobody batted an eye to children being armed.

The real problem we have had since the 1960's is that we are no longer dealing with the crazy kids. The mental institutions have been closed, and as a culture we have all been told to be super tolerate and non-judgemental.

This of course means nobody is identifying or dealing with mental illness anymore because that requires we be exactly the opposite. Nor is there any way deal with those we do find as the institutions have been closed, and the crazy's left to be managed with "drugs" they may or may not take.

So instead we are doing stupid things like putting legal restrictions on theses people as if the law meant anything them, or trying to turn the whole country into a "safe for them" funny farm as if that was even possible. (its not)

Theses kids need to be identified and watched 24/7. In most cases their issues could have been dealt with if someone just judged and talked to them.

There is No way on earth your going to keep them from figuring out a way to do whatever it is they want to do unmonitored in the real world.

To be entirely honest I'm more worried about crazy kids finally figuring out some far more effective ways to kill large numbers of their peers, ranging from bombs to poisoning.

I don't want to go into detail but Its rather obvious how a kid with just a little more research which will soon enough be available on the internet could kill the entire school population.

You should be very thankful that they still give you a very loud bang as a warning and time to take them out, because soon enough that won't be the case

[comekitty]

@Avicenna. I teach kindergarten, I also support the second amendment, and I do have a FOID card but, you're correct, I would not want to bring a loaded weapon into my classroom.

I spend a lot of my day interacting with them in very close proximity - sometimes sitting at a pint size table or on the floor with them.

Kindergartners are little and always in my space - it's very common for them to come up behind me and give me a hug or lean against me. I've even had a group of kids literally tackle me with hugs.

Having a loaded weapon, for me, would be a disaster waiting to happen.

This might be a better option for teachers in older grades as there's less wiggles in bigger kids.

Just to mention, too - when we have events like open house or a family night, we always have two armed officers in our building.

[mommymommymommy]

@comekitty The problem isn't guns. I mean, yes, it sort of is but, it's not the be all to end all. The problem is mental health. And republicans won't address that

[Avicenna]

@comekitty: I taught high school. The bigger kids are better able to disarm you though.

Armed security and police when performing security duties are able to focus just on security. Not so for teachers.

[Avicenna]

@mommymommymommy: I don't see any evidence that Democrats want to address mental health problems, especially when you consider how they have let the mentally ill homeless population metastasize in places like Portland, Oregon. And given how Democrats politicize everything, it's likely that they'd try to commit political opponents rather than people who are truly mentally ill.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@Avicenna Perfectly done. There are plenty of retired police officers and retired military personnel who can occupy these jobs. Have them pass a criminal background check and a psychological exam (and maybe a course on how to interact with kids on a daily basis), and we'd be good to go.

[Avicenna]

@NYCQuestions1976: I agree. I'd have police officers guarding the perimeter and armed ex-military and ex-police officers inside the school buildings.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@Avicenna It's job creation also, which is an added bonus. The background checks and psychological tests for the job are absolutely essential though. We can't have armed people with PTSD patrolling schools.

[Avicenna]

@NYCQuestions1976: Of course. And these positions will pay pretty well and have something close to banker's hours.

[mommymommymommy]

Projection at its finest, a true republicuck, we have here

[mommymommymommy]

@Avicenna

[NYCQuestions1976]

@Avicenna Well the hours would be fluid as needed. Many schools have extra curricular activities, after school programs, etcetera.

[mommymommymommy]

@NYCQuestions1976 Has nothing to do with being bored. It has everything to do with "being bullied". The nashville killer, was bullied

[NYCQuestions1976]

@mommymommymommy At what point in this thread did I mention anything about anyone being bored?

[mommymommymommy]

@NYCQuestions1976 "after school activities", would imply, boredom

[NYCQuestions1976]

@mommymommymommy I'm not sure where you're from or where you went to school, but schools are rarely vacant when the regular school day ends. There are usually a number of student activities going on after school, like scholastic sports. So again, "bored" and "boredom" isn't applicable here.

[mommymommymommy]

@NYCQuestions1976 That's my point. You literally just said, There are enough activities to keep people from being "bored"

The problem with gun violence in schools, is not "boredom", it's mental health. The nashville shooter, was bullied

[NYCQuestions1976]

@mommymommymommy Of course mental health is an enormous problem. Allowing the mentally unhinged to integrate into the general population is the biggest contributing factor. I still don't see how having armed security working at schools while there are still after school activities going on (as compared to their shifts just ending at the end of the regular school day) has anything to do with boredom and/or students being bored.

[NYCQuestions1976]

@mommymommymommy HA HA HA HA HA! Only losers with no answers block other users. Don't be mad at me because you've got a bowl of stale oatmeal in between your head! Later, Asshole! 😂😂😂😂😂

[NYCQuestions1976]

*In your head, between your ears.

I'm going around Manhattan in a boat right now, and I'm a bit distracted by the music and chop.

[Avicenna]

Thanks for the mho

[NYCQuestions1976]

We can't ask or order teachers to be armed in their classrooms. There are plenty of retired police officers and retired military personnel who can occupy these jobs. Have them pass a criminal background check and a psychological exam (and maybe a course on how to interact with kids on a daily basis), and that would be a great step in the correct direction. Plus we'd be creating jobs.

[NYCQuestions1976]

Thanks for Most Helpful. 👍

[ObscuredBeyond]

Test them for mental health history, arm them with pyrophoric rounds and fully automatic weapons if they pass, and even let them fasten a bayonet to the thing!

If they have too nightmarishly bad of a mental health score, their qualifications to be teaching should be questioned. If they're too mentally unstable to be trusted with a Rambo gun in their possession, why are they allowed near children?

The next mofo that comes to pick a fight will be dead faster than Audrey Hale, and in much more agony! But that aside, the teacher will know exactly the right amount of force to apply to any other situation.

Ideally, that gun will only have to be used once. And after its message is sent, no one dares come after those kids again, too busy shaking like a leaf from the thought of the consequences. So that gun won't need to be used ever again afterward. But will still be there, to deter stupid evil.

You can't cure evil with coloring books. You have to purge it. With a cleansing fire! With shrieking. It's unpleasant, but that beats the alternative.

[BCA6010]

I'm for it in principle... The problem is I know quite a few teachers and I wouldn't trust them to put themselves at risk to protect students if sh*t hit the fan. I'm also really not convinced even a majority of them are of sound mind, especially the activist ones who feel compelled to talk about sexual content in classrooms and demonstrate child-like maturity themselves. Sure "it's Texas," but I guarantee that's still a problem. Public schooling even in conservative areas in Texas were very liberal even 15 years ago, and while that didn't matter as much at the time since they were level-headed adults, things have changed.

I'd rather permanent full-time security officers with the option for CHL holding teachers to undergo additional, regular qualification to permit carrying on campus.

[ShadezMcgee]

I am against it, honestly. I feel teachers shouldn't be forced to protect kids or be paid to learn how to fire a gun and use it in the case of an active shooter. That comes down to individual responsibility. In all honesty, I would be waiting for the day a teachers kills a student out of anger. No need for that.

I am for armed guards or police being stationed on the school with proper firepower in an vault should the occasion arise. It makes more sense for people whose kob it is to defend and protect rather one who isn't and is forced to do so.

[ShadezMcgee]

Now, if the teacher in question is a firearms owner and has a CCW and license and volunteers to take that responsibility that is another thing.

[gorydetails]

Do you mean like the cops in Uvalde? Wasn't it their job to defend and protect?

[ShadezMcgee]

@gorydetails and they aren't the standard across the board. Unfortunately we have seem them fail from Cowardice in the forms of Uvalde and Parkland. However we just had the one in Tennessee when those cops went in within 30 seconds of getting their rifles.

m.youtube.com/watch

THESE are the kind of cops we need there.

You really trust teachers to protect kids or comply with having to learn self defense against an active shooter? It is an individual responsibility as I stated.

One thing to be forced than to be a willing volunteer. Anyone who seeks firearms training for self defense, a CCP, and carries assumes the responsibility of being a responsible gun owner and user. Not counting bystander effect or freezing up if you find yourself in those situations.

[gorydetails]

I don't disagree with you, but I'm pointing out that the police are under no obligation to serve or protect you.

[HighValue]

As a teacher, and having seen frequent incompetence, irresponsibility, and forgetfulness of other teachers, I am against arming other teachers. Many students would have access to guns caused by teachers. It would be better to pay an active duty armed guard/police officer to be on campus at all times. It would cost the same as one teacher's salary to do that.

How can that be accomplished/paid for? Increase class size by 1 to 3 students per class/grade depending on school size. 3 teachers per grade would mean increasing class size by 3 students. 5 teachers per grade level would mean only increasing class size by one student per class. It is totally possible.

[bolverk]

For, If they want to carry, but they should not be forced to, and the other teachers in school who are not carrying should not know who is, as they are the ones who are most likely to let slip who is carrying.

As for them being paid more if they have any sense they use that extra cash at the range to get proficient with their weapon/weapon's of choice.

I carried concealed while working in the US for 10 years, 4 of them teaching and none of the other teachers in those schools or the administration knew that I was carrying, better to seek forgiveness than ask permission.

[NaultD]

Against. Teachers are going to be slow on the draw killing a kid they have a passion to teach and killer kid gets a gun. At that point mass panic sets in every teacher is blind firing on a mass stream of kids with only one with murderers intensity fleeing, hiding or killing.

There is a reason for slow evacuation when police do it and giving teachers guns is open fire for police that will storm the school killing teachers and who is the school shooter nobody knows were too busy killing each other to find out who. What a brilliant idea we created. Let alone a false alarm that can't be stopped.

[monorprise]

@naultd
Well your forcing them to deal with the crazy kids either way. You might as well give them a gun as at least for now that might help them.

In the Long term theses crazy kids are going to eventually find out via our World Wide Web and AI how to make and well place poisons and bombs to truly kill a large number of their peers.

Theses Kids need to be identified and confined to as they use to be 60 years ago. Instead we are told to be super non-judgemental making it impossible to identify them, while our "Safe places" have all been closed making it nearly impossible to do anything effective in the random change we do identify them.

There is a reason crime rates went thou the roof when they closed the institution and let these people out on the street.

Instead our "leaders" are either expecting the nuts to follow their rules, or trying to turn the entire country into a "safe place" for them. Both plans are insane.

[NaultD]

@monorprise police are still going to gun down teachers faster then teachers to put down the gun with untapped adrenaline and lost all hope in life.

That potential mass hysteria with teachers open fire on a wave of children in the halls is why teachers don't have guns now. Same reason police dont create mass hysteria by storming the school. Room by room for 15 hours.

A mess like that a school shooter can kill a class. let the rest of teachers and police kill each other and do the same thing next month. Who going to know what and endlessly blame the other in lawsuits.

[monorprise]

@naultd Now your just make believing insanity is somehow contagious, and people just attack everyone if anything happens.

Fortunately unlike in the movies this does not happen in real life, people don't just kill everyone else the moment there is a crisis. As that tends to get themselfs killed very quickly.

Would a teacher be better than a trained cop in finding and killing the target? No of course not. The only advantage a teacher brings is that they are there to respond in seconds when cops are minutes away.

Untrained a teacher may at most likely just slow down a shooter who cares about their life which is in itself very helpful.

However ultimately this is just a plan to mitigate the problems caused by our own tolerance preventing us from identifying the crazy kids and failing modern mental health theories unable to treat or control them.

[NaultD]

@monorprise mass hysteria is a real thing. That first high of adrenaline is one hell of a drug. They will open fire innocent kids and cops only seeing flash of colors and not people. One class open firing is fuck up the next class reasoning abilities. Then add the traind cops not knowing if the shooter is a kid or a teacher thats open firing on anything that moves.

[NaultD]

Teachers and cops are going to kill more people then a single school shooter can. If there's no cameras on the school the school shooter is going back to class like nothing happened.

[NaultD]

We can experiment with this. Get a cop teaching basic division to some 120 kids daily with one paint ball gun going for a mass shooting. He'll empty a clip on the kid with a rubber band hand gun then the real shooting starts.

[monorprise]

@naultd

Its funny how that never happens.

[monorprise]

@naultd Having a gun doesn't make you use it to kill people.

[NaultD]

@monorprise How else do you use a gun in a school shooting? You shoot to kill. No inbetween about it. I'm doubting a reasonable person of said teacher ability to target said intended school shooter. Any intentional and misfires will trigger adrenaline on everyone in ear shot. It becomes a war zone at this point. Cops, teachers and students are not trained solders and everyone with a gun will kill anything that moves.

[monorprise]

@naultd As long as the other person instinctively fears death you really don't have to kill him just keep his head down long enough for someone else to take him out.

[NaultD]

@monorprise the school shooter is actively wanting suiside by cops taking as many people with them. They want death.

[monorprise]

@naultd Even in the cases where that is true, that doesn't change their survival instinct to resist being killed too easy, less they would have killed themselfs.

That instinct would slow them down and keep them from making themselfs a easy target from a shooter who's skills they won't know.

[gorydetails]

Of all the psyops our government forces on us, this one seems like a no-brainer. The school district should announce publically that teachers may be armed. Signs should go in front of the schools announcing as such. Whether or not they are armed is irrelevant. Allow teachers who are CCW holders to carry legally in their schools if they wish.

[monorprise]

@gorydetails
Thats only going to help you with the less crazy kids, our culture has become soo super-tolerate we are not even dealing with the really crazy ones anymore. The ones that plan to die in the attempt.

Theses people need to be watched 24/7 or placed in secure environments because nothing else will keep them from finding a way to do that.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

It's insane to think of arming a school teacher but the way things currently are with random mass shooters I think we have reached a point where it's the logical step to do so because you have to protect the students and the teachers themselves in school in case if one of those idiots decide to shoot up a school.

[monorprise]

@Hispanic-Cool-Guy
Ultimately its just a stop-gap measure. Sooner or later the crazy kids are going to learn from the web or AI how kill large numbers of people.

The real problem is we are identifying or dealing with the crazy kids anymore. On the account of being super non-judgemental and closing our mental institutions.
Instead our leaders have been either trying to
A) tell the ever fewer mentally ill kids we do identify to simply do or not do thing (like take drugs). which obviously isn't happening consistently.
or
B) Try to turn the entire world into a "save environment" for them by removing the dangerous tools.(impossible to implement).

So realistically this problem is only going to get worse and worse.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

@monorprise: Its not a stop gap measure. A shooter will think twice of trying to shoot up a school with several teachers they are armed and bullets will be flying back at the shooter.

Having cop or guard like people are saying in the comments won't do much because a shooter can easily sneak up on one cop or guard and kill them.

Having one cop or guard at a school won't help unless they are having multiple guards there at once and that will seriously cost a lot of money if every single school in the U. S. has to have multiple guards and cops at a school during the 8 hours there.

[MysticDevice]

With some training yes, I'm all for it. Teachers are already unwilling participants in school attacks now. Might as well give them the ability to fight back and protect their students. Signs and gun free zones don't work.

[cth96190]

No, because most teachers are leftard women who have been subjected to the full Communist mind fuck at university.
In the opinion of this former soldier and licensed security guard, most teachers would be a liability.

[Anonymous]

Against. School teachers are already questionably qualified, and narrowing the pool of potential teachers to those willing, comfortable, AND competent with guns is a bad idea (especially considering those who are NOT comfortable and/or competent with guns will weasel their way into that position).

Additionally, I'd imagine we'll likely see instances where guns would otherwise not have been all that accessible suddenl6 having student somehow obtaining the gun from the teacher and using it.

[monorprise]

Given we are not allowed to be judgmental to identify and deal with the crazy kids.

Allowing a teacher to at least be armed will in the short term give them a fighting chance. That is until the crazy kids learn about far more effective ways to do crazy thing.

[Kelly6]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/09/us/newport-news-school-shooting.html

how will you stop this?

With gun?

[Count_de_Monte_Volo]

When I look back on my school days, 99% of my teachers were really weird people (the kind you avoid in public) and I wouldn’t trust them to guard students with a loaded gun.

[Pterodon]

Why can’t schools have a single point of entrance but have multiple one way exits like banks and federal buildings? All school shootings have one thing in common. The shooter gained entry through a side door

[AaronKrieger]

I am for it somewhat, but I do not think it needs to be enforced and rather be an option.

[Juxtapose]

Teachers should definitely be strapped 👍

Let's see the school shooter fairs against an entire school of armed adults.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Likely very poorly 👍

I'm glad they are finally doing something about the problem.

[Juxtapose]

@TheSpaceGnome me too!

[Dargil]

I Support it under the condition of the sufficient training I received as an armed security officer.

[exitseven]

I would pay them a stipend and train and insure them.

[MementoMori777]

Against, they should just have more school police per school, I used to steal hall passes from teachers desks, I hope you know where I'm going with this

[Anonymous]

I am all for it. I think it would certainly decrease school shootings.

[LiamJHayden]

I would rather that retired veterans be hired.

[TheSpaceGnome]

Shell shock ridden war vets are not a wise choice. Let them retire.

[Avicenna]

I'm a veteran and have armed security experience. You do not want to put those responsibilities on the shoulders of classroom teachers, who already have so much to do and keep track of. If you make them armed, they will focus on their security and that of their firearm rather than on instruction and student wellbeing.

[TheSpaceGnome]

@Avicenna I don't agree.

Having a non combatant job does not make a person unable to defend themselves or others with a gun when prioritizing their job. You are underestimating people. Most armed citizens do just fine focusing on their job. However most war vets suffer from stress and/or injury, that keeps them from being a safe option. Exceptions will exist in both cases, but this isn't about exceptions, exceptions don't provide enough workers.

[Avicenna]

@TheSpaceGnome: How much time have you spent as a classroom teacher? Are you familiar with what they have to deal with in a classroom? Apparently not, because you act like you know better than people who have or are still teaching. And teaching is far from the only workplace where you don't want workers armed because of the distractions of the job.

Being a veteran doesn't also mean you're a combat veteran.

[TheSpaceGnome]

For.

The only way to stop a shooter is to shoot back. Texas does a lot wrong, but this choice was very wise. 👍

[Juxtapose]

Quite so.

[Cubus]

Yes.

You have no shootings at airports, because at airports you have armed guards

[Wild_princess]

Solving violence with more violence is not a solution at all. america should really revise its gun policy

[cth96190]

Said like a leftard who has been subjected to the full upsidedown world Communist mind fuck at university.
The only way to deal with bad people with guns is to oppose them with good people with guns.

[Wild_princess]

@cth96190 kindly explain me how to decide who is good , who is bad?

[Anonymous]

Yeah, give an overworked, stressed out teacher a gun. What could possibly go wrong?

[Anonymous]

So the 3 r's are now reading, writing, and re-load?

Why do they call it 3 r's anyhow? 2 of the words don't even start with the letter "r".

[EpicSnail]

I personally consider even debating it loco. But I'm not an American...

[msc545]

Against it. They will end up shooting kids and other adults.

[Puppystarfish23]

It sounds like a terrible idea

[Agape93]

Against