Which is worse - communism or fascism?

Question

Naydyonov · Accepted Answer

A long time ago, I'd have said equal. Now, definitively I can say communism.

Based on history, fascism is repressive, but due to its nature of being generally inclusive of the population (corporate-socialism for the nation), most people either support it, accept it, or tolerate it. It simultaneously allows both big-business and socialists to coexist. Rather than directly taking ownership of the economy through corporate-takeover, fascism controls the economy through corporations — whether governmental or private. Owners can keep their companies if they agree to collude with the government. If they don't, their companies will be taken away, either to be nationalized or to have a loyal Fascist party-member take over. What makes the number of "accidental" deaths quite minimal is that by giving corporations a way of maintaining some autonomy and profit-making ability, business leaders fall in line (as the alternative is the aforementioned nationalization/takeover). This means a continuity of management who know their company well, but also it means that the quality of management (as measured by experience & knowledge) is maintained at nearly the same level.

The problem communism faces, through its economic strategy of nationalization of companies, is that by replacing managers en-mass, they create inefficiency. Not only do the new managers not know the business well, but they often lack any education/skills to do their job.

By allowing profit-making, even though a fascist government will overregulate the economy, there is still a mechanism to access the efficiency of economic processes. The people running these corporations have a personal motive for maintaining efficiency by lowering costs and increasing output — exactly as in a capitalist system.

Communism lacks this, which is why they have huge numbers of firms operating at a loss, mostly due to complete inefficacy. Communism's "industrial breakthroughs" is just done by funneling farmers into factories. But the input into factories is overdependent on labour, while technology & capital tends to be lacking. Thus, to gain this technology, the state recognizes the need to conduct international trade. Because most communist countries have been agrarian, the export tends to be produce: grain.

In both the USSR & China, export of grain was done to earn the currency needed to purchase the machinery (technology) required in factories. Communists in practice seem to hate democracy as much as religion or capitalism, because, time after time, they create one-party states. They recognize that under a multiparty system, they will never gain the support needed to implement their radical policies at the radical speeds they wish to implement them. This is key. At a very slow pace, the USSR could've industrialized without human casualties: farmers trickle into the cities to work in factories, small taxes in the form of grain are taken from farmers and exported abroad, the currency earned is used to buy machinery, the machinery is imported and installed into factories, making them more efficient (output per worker ⬆ as capital (technology) ⬆).
Instead, having absolute power, the government implemented radical economic change. It forced farmers to work on collective farms and to pay an excessively high tax (in the form of grain). This grain was used for export. By taking away the motivation for work (personal gain), farmers became less efficient (output fell), while the amount demanded by the government was raised. The result was mass famine, as the government could not recognize its own policies as being the source of the demotivation of the farmers. Add to that their desire for revenge against the bourgeoise, and what we get is also the most productive farmers being arrested, exiled or executed.

Communism is repressive, but it kills mostly due to its economic structure being so inefficient. Most people who die under communist regimes die from starvation. The government is responsible. Not only by creating the cause, but also by taking no steps to reverse course or to provide aid. Thus, during both famines in the USSR & China, both governments continued grain export even as millions died.

The last element was finally touched on: revenge. Communists' worldview divides the population into classes. For them, there are certain classes which must be eliminated. Some, of course, mean in the sense of class itself: making people equal socially/economically. The others see it in a physical sense: the people of that class must be eliminated. Thus, we get statements from key communists in Bolshevik Russia (1918):

We are not waging war against individual persons. We are exterminating the bourgeoisie as a class.
To overcome our enemies we must have our own socialist militarism. We must carry along with us 90 million out of the 100 million of Soviet Russia's population. As for the rest, we have nothing to say to them. They must be annihilated.

Thus, unlike the fascists who wish to create a form of socialism through corporations (corporate-state merger: corporations as the children, the state as the father), which inherently is inclusive all levels of society, from poor to rich, communists want proletarian dictatorship. This entails the destruction of a class. The result, thus, is what we saw across Communist countries: state terror. Unlike Fascist Italy, which officially executed just 26 people from 1926-1943, the Red Terror of 1918 is confirmed to have killed 10'000-15'000 people in just the first 2 months in the newspaper of secret police! This was under Lenin.
Under Stalin, the Great Terror resulted in over 681'000 executions over the course of 2 years.

Though not Fascist, Nazi Germany executed 80'000 Germans to compare. Communists overachieved in terms of deadliness to the population under their control both the Fascists & Nazis.

Both Nazis & Fascists overwhelmingly caused death through war & occupation: death of their own soldiers and mass killing of the occupied foreign population.

Communists not only also engaged in war plenty of times (Soviet-Finnish war, Chinese invasion of Vietnam, Afghan War, Korean War, etc), with mass repression of the occupied population, but they engaged in mass murder of their own people, both during war and during peacetime.

In Italy, if you weren't actively opposing Fascism, your chances of survival were essentially 100%. In Germany, it'd be something like 99.2% chance of survival (including Jewish Germans here, though without them, chance of survival increases also nearly to 100%). In communist countries, it was something more like 75-95%.
The jump from even 99% to 95% is already huge. For a country like modern America, that's a difference between 3.3 million people being killed compared to 16.5 million. Taking a country like Cambodia, for the USA an equivalent experience would be for 82.5 million people to die over the course of a few years. Wouldn't you think this is apocalyptic levels of death if you had to live through it?

It's not easy to be concise when going into the details. I hope, for whoever may have gotten this far, it is crystal clear that, as horrible as Fascism is, it still manages to appear humane when compared to Communism.

BCA6010 · Accepted Answer

Communism and it's not close, if going by deaths, population repression, and in some cases, literally going backwards from a technological and cultural standpoint.

Fascism has never actually been implemented without almost immediately evolving into a tyrannical socialist system. US colleges try to teach that it is somehow a foil to far left socialism/communism, but in practice they are negligibly different aside from the rhetoric used to seize power, which is ultimately what these types covet above all else, regardless. Both ideals must crush basic foundations of the culture that they can't directly control (churches, family, schools and media especially), both maintain order through fear, both seize total control over the infrastructure and economy, and both ultimately serve a new elite over a repressed society who was more than likely conned into supporting it in the first place.

In a modern context, they are both still very dangerous for different reasons. Communism is still relatively popular thanks to negligent if not malicious education systems that willfully ignore historical precedent. The infamous "globalist agenda" that gets pushed throughout the world is effectively the modern evolution of fascism, even originally authored by "former" Nazis, and replacing the ethnic and/or nationalistic language with globalist or "world citizen" language. In both cases, they rely on the complicitness of useful idiots to push these goals, which is why there's a resurgence of nationalist movements in countries to maintain their sovereignty rather than selling out to people who clearly don't care about their interests.

FreyaRed · Accepted Answer

Difference between them both is their ideology and names, but the foundation is for them both totalitarianism and intimidation of people who dare to criticize or oppose their agenda and narrative.

Anonymous · Answer

Comparing the relative severity of communism and fascism is a complex and subjective matter. Both ideologies have been associated with significant human rights abuses and have led to authoritarian regimes in different historical contexts. It's important to note that the implementations of these ideologies have varied across different countries and time periods, making it challenging to make a direct and definitive comparison.

Communism, as envisioned by Karl Marx, aims for a classless society where the means of production are collectively owned. However, in practice, communist regimes have often resulted in totalitarian states with limited political freedoms, censorship, and human rights abuses. Examples include the Soviet Union under Stalin, Maoist China, and North Korea.

Fascism, on the other hand, is an authoritarian nationalist ideology associated with dictatorial power, extreme nationalism, and suppression of dissent. Fascist regimes, such as Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany and Benito Mussolini's Italy, have been responsible for widespread human rights violations, including genocide, suppression of minorities, and aggressive expansionist policies.

Both communism and fascism have had devastating consequences and have been responsible for immense human suffering. Millions of lives have been lost under both systems, and the violations of individual freedoms and human rights have been severe in both cases.

Determining which ideology is "worse" is subjective and depends on various factors, including personal values, historical context, and the specific implementations of these ideologies. It's essential to critically examine and learn from history to avoid the repetition of such atrocities and strive for more inclusive and democratic systems that prioritize human rights, individual freedoms, and social well-being.

slatyb · Answer

In practice it's all authoritarianism. Fascist countries tend to be more productive than communist countries, but that may just be an accident of history. Both are miserable for the majority of the people. Neither is as productive as modern social democracy.

DarkLegacy · Answer

Facism is. Communism is in fact not such a bad idea in principal, it gives people equality, everyone is guaranteed a job and their own house. Communism places empathize on community owned rather then by government or private enterprises. Obviously the original idea has been lost somewhat however.

DarkWinterNights · Answer

Wow… the education system really failed half the people on this poll.

Anonymous · Answer

From the citizen's perspective, both involve the government brutally fucking you in the ass (figuratively or very likely literally) and there is nothing you can do about it. The philosophy behind the ass fucking doesn't matter.

OddBeMe · Answer

They’re extremes of two sides that historical turned dictatorial. The lesson: don’t go extreme. Like Trump.

msc545 · Answer

Fascism is a lot worse, although sometimes communism starts to look like fascism which it makes it just as bad.

LiamJHayden · Answer

Totalitarianism sucks, period.

riverrat3 · Answer

Just opposite ends of the spectrum

gothbxtch · Answer

fascism.

Which is worse - communism or fascism?

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