Banning guns doesn't stop murder so there's no point in banning mass shootings either. And we'll never completely get rid of drugs so there's no point in banning drugs either. And we'll never stop people from stealing so there's no point in making stealing illegal. Let's just make everything legal because making something illegal will never stop it completely.
Whether people in the U. S want to admit it or not, people have too much freedom, and they take advantage of that freedom. They could ban guns completely, and people would still find a way to get them, so yeah, why not make them completely legal. Donald Trump was asked a question on better gun control when he was in office and he just shrugged it off, saying he didn't want to get into it because he would be getting into violated people's 2nd Amendment right.
The 2nd amendment is your freedom to carry one (Not buy one), which those are two different things all together. The world has been a dangerous place since Adam and Eve were banished from the garden, but the U. S is becoming a more dangerous place to live these days. I live in a small town in Ohio, and here there's drug dealers, drug addicts, prostitutes, meth labs in every other house, and almost every one , people sale heroine with fentanyl.
I've only lived her for 6 months, but I heard they shot a movie here once and had to call in the police from 6 neighboring towns to "Protect" the actors because the crime is so bad here.
I agree with purpleloppy, about countries with less guns have less murders and a ban would get some of the numbers down. Trump didn't care because of "Rights", Biden, it's hard to tell with him. All I can say about that is it's sad, really really sad when people's rights to carry guns are more important than a bunch of high school students getting shot up. People disappoint me.
They need to make using a gun in a crime a long sentence offence. They are too easy on criminals in my opinion.
@YesterdaysChild oh, definitely! People who commit the worse crimes get light sentences a lot of times, or are eligible for parole, but people who go to jail for small crimes get large sentences and get treated like they're the worst criminals. The justice system in America is a joke!
@YesterdaysChild people who commit murder with guns already get life sentence or death penalty. Also, higher incarceration rates make crime go up in most countries.
Felons, who are not allowed to possess guns, are caught with them all the time. They sure don't get them at a gun store. Did you ever think that some country, like China, might supply everyone with guns in order to overthrow a oppressive government sometime in the future?
I've seen murderers get out on parole before, even though they had a life sentence. The justice in our nation sucks. They give these smash and grab thieves more rights than the ones they ripped off. We won't even talk about San Francisco.
@YesterdaysChild That's for sure! I used to be friends with a girl who had a brother who is a felon, he went to prison for assault with a deadly weapon, and he was caught with fire arms all the time. A slap on the wrist and a "Don't do it again" from his parole officer. The justice system is a real joke too!
I'm amazed MAGAots haven't complained that laws against murder violate their their freedom.
@Part2603 No, because MAGAots think the definition of freedom is: I can do anything I want regardless of the consequences.
If they can't kill you with guns they will use knives, swords, bombs, or flame throwers, or even their bare hands. It is the "Wanting someone dead" that is the problem, not the means used to do so.
Pretty tough to kill multiple people with a knife and it takes a lot of effort to build a bomb or flamethrower.
And a good proportion Darwin Award themselves before they get a chance to harm others. https://darwinawards.com/
Actually it is easy. Some guy on a subway killed 3 people with a knife in just one minute.
Just one minute huh? He must have been a kung-fu master. How many kung-fu knife wielding experts do you think are in America? And how often does that happen compared to mass shootings which happen every day.
Countries not flooded with guns have less murders. A ban wouldn't stop murder but it would get the numbers down a lot.
Opinion
19Opinion
we'll we kinda did that in chicago and none of the dead people are complaining so maybe it's ok?
We could just redefine it as "assisted recycling in effort to reduce global warming?"...
Guns probably, most certainly, lead to higher rates of murder.. since it's so easy to fire off a piece of hot lead which destroys a body. The real problem being the human holding it, but society has no interest in training those humans apparently.
Murder been going on since before the Bible was conceived. People have been murdered in nyc by pushing onto trains. But as well, I would not want all those people in the nyc area armed to the tooth with AK47's, RPG's, Grenades... ya know, a well armed militia, like back during civil war times, they were well armed. That be worse... because I see how they train those kids. So yea, ban them guns in big cities and have a well armed police force. But lets keep murder on the books, since I don't want to be recycled against my will.
If you get rid of guns, it will just increase the number of stabbings, beatings and bombings. If people want to commit murder, they will do it whether they use guns or not. How many terrorist acts involve the use of vehicles to kill people? Are you going to suggest that we stop using vehicles and go back to horses? Making things illegal never stopped anyone. It just created more social problems and costs to the government. We have not eliminated the motives.
In many of these mass shootings, the motive doesn't make sense either. Why would somebody return to a school that they have already graduated from or moved on from to get revenge against... people that aren't even there anymore. I had bullies in Grade school. Then I moved on to High School, where people were much more mature and most of us were more interested in attracting the opposite sex than making fun of somebody's hair. What is the motive for someone going from high school back to their old grade school and shooting students and teachers?
so why bother banning murder?
According to your flawed reasoning if guns are taken, there should be just as many homicides by knives, bombs, or beatings. But there aren't. The per capita murder rate in first world countries with gun control is far lower than in the US, which completely debunks your implied claim.
This notion that if we take the guns, murders will happen some other way so why bother, is idiotic. And every first world country with gun control proves the homicide rate is far lower without guns. Aren't fewer murders, regardless of how they're committed, better than more murders?
Way I look at laws is in terms of their effects including perverse side effects and opportunity costs.
Do you genuinely think a country like the US will be safer with stricter gun control? That's a legit Q and not rhetorical.
Take drugs as a corollary example, and not so different since the flood of drugs into the US mostly comes from South American cartels who even have narco-submarines now.
It doesn't seem to me like banning guns will prevent gun-related homicides to me in a country that can't even get drug interdiction under control.
In a smaller island country like mine (Japan), underground firearm interdiction along with drug interdiction is generally successful. But we have very different geography from the US. The ideal laws might be dependent on factors like geography.
But I think lots of people in the US point to my country and say there are almost no gun-related homicides. Obviously! But they ignore the activities of, say, Kudo-Kai who smuggle in explosives like grenades into the country and roll a grenade into a night club and kill everyone inside. They ignore the fact that there are kindergarteners in Kyu-Shu finding dud grenades that Kudo-Kai intended to kill. They ignore terrorist groups in Japan who use sarin gas in subways to kill as many people as possible.
What we thankfully have here in Japan is not so many people intent on killing other people.
So I genuinely don't know if you ban guns in the US if it will make things better. You might people using tools that cause even more collateral damage instead like nail bombs, sarin gas, grenades, pipe bombs, etc. Are people intent to kill other people so like us just having a bad day that you have to worry so much about guns?
Australia is a lot safer with gun control.
Japan here too in my estimate but I often wonder about the practicality of firearm interdiction efforts in a country like the US. Australia didn't seem to have such a thriving market for guns trafficking as in the US prior to their 1996 reforms. For example, I heard they confiscated around 650k guns at the time. The US has a reported 300 million firearms in circulation and many that aren't even registered. That's over 460 times the firearms that were present in Australia not to mention more and more introduced through arms trafficking.
The only gun problem with the US is lobbyists from gun companies who are worried about their profits.
I refer to my original argument.
Maximal trust in government and law enforcement in that case, I assume? That's how we do here in Japan. I think if anyone heard a gunshot here in Japan, it's so rare and everyone will be reporting it and police would arrive with so many cars ready to apprehend the shooter.
I could see US becoming like this but I think gun interdiction needs to be swift and very harsh. Initially I think you might need 2, 3, maybe even 10 times as many police officers actively patrolling each area as citizens hand over all their guns. Not permanently, of course, but maybe for the first decade or so until people gradually settle into a new type of nation, and with official repeal for the second amendment.
I know you are been sarcastic but on a different point I actually yes would agree with not banning drugs. Drugs should be sold by the government just like all the ones that already legally are, as it can be taxed and it's your own fault if you do coke and die.
Youβre right, in fact we should just ban all laws. Make laws completely illegal.
By the way - love the profile picture.
Good point. You're pointing out the perfect solution fallacy, or the nirvana fallacy.
However, the debate is not whether banning guns is 100% effective at preventing murder, it's whether it's an acceptable trade off in freedoms.
Shootings have decreased in the UK. But stabbings are up.
Heck, I'll do you one better. Banning guns may result in a short term decrease in deaths, but when the authoritarian totalitarian dystopia arrives, the State is gonna be shooting a lot more people than incel tranny psychos ever did.
and how is a gun gonna stop a bunch of tanks and airplanes?
The better solution is to ban stupid people from owning guns.
That would ban a lot of people from owning guns, but would definitely reduce gun crimes.
Guns are just objects, just take the guns out of the hands that do stupid things with them.
Gun ownership is pretty much banned in the city I live in yet criminals don't seem to care. Police have been defunded. Walmart and target have closed down because of all the shop lifting has made it unprofitable. The drug problem is out of control. This is decades of democrats being in charge
yes, so why make drugs illegal if the drug problem is out of control?
Well there is actually talk of doing just that and concentrating on tackling through rehabilitation facilities rather than just locking them up. I mean does smoking weed warrant 10 years? What is out of control in the US more than anything is legal drugs
@spartan55 too much Fox News for you
@John_Doesnt
The more you talk the more cartoonish you become.
@spartan55 oh yes, a friend is more reliable than actual facts and statistics. Do you believe your friends caught a fish *this* big?
There's no law against murder already... because the law recognizes that some people deserve to be killed. Killing is not inherently wrong. For example killing in self defense is a good thing if you have what used to be called 'common sense'.
every case of "self defense" is unique and there is no blanket statement for what is murder in self defense or just malice. Shoot someone once in the front and it's probably self defense. Shooting someone in the back multiple times and it's probably murder.
Huh? What you say makes no sense to me. Although I get the gist of what you're trying to say. I could shoot you in the front just because I don't like you. Or I could shoot you in the back because you just threatened to rape and murder my wife, and I believe you fully intend to do that today/tonight. In my book that would make you 100% worthy of death. Of course, typically we don't believe other people pose a clear & present danger if they aren't actively trying to assault us BUT I wouldn't say it's impossible.
so you're a vigilante dishing out justice as you see fit? Just gonna issue the death penalty to everyone if given the chance? and I'm sure you dress up as a superhero everyday and give to charity.
No, it's called protecting your family. Instead of trusting the legal system that's going to either laugh at you or issue a worthless restraining order. You'll be one of those people on the news whining about how you begged the authorities to protect your wife/kids for a year but they didn't. I'm old school... like men were before so many of you became sheep. That said, I've yet to have to execute a scumbag.
if they're running away then you've protected your family and call the police with a description of the suspect. And I wouldn't be surprised if you had no family, no gun and have never been in a deadly situation of any kind.
You're under the insane delusion that laws prevent crime. Of course they don't. That's asinine. Laws punish crime. That's why law enforcement officers chase alleged offenders after they have allegedly offended. They don't show up to your house and arrest you because they think you'll commit a crime tomorrow. You can't read the future, nor can you read minds, so there is no rule or law that will ever stop a crime. Laws are reactive. They punish crime after the fact.
Your logic seems flawed. You are suggesting that if we can't eliminate something we should accept it. That would mean that since people die, its OK to kill people
Why the hell not. We already don't prosecute drug dealers looters, armed robbers, vandals and carjackers. Hopefully it will just be one dirtbag killing another.
and I'm assuming you get all your info from local news and Newsmaxx
I also make it a point to watch the fake news just to see what they are withholding from people like you.. If you ever watched real news you may have heard that the person tht was killed in the subway by the Marine Corps veteran had 40 previous arrests. This sort of thing happens all the time in Democrat run cities.,
Except gun crime rates are much higher in red states.
Your premise is incorrect. Places that ban guns have less gun crime
Government should pass out guns to everyone over 18. If everyone had guns their would be less people.
Government could call it population control.
Just let people kill each other
Before al-Qaeda and bin Laden
Long before Hitler and Hussein
Ever since the first murder was committed
The verdict's always been the same
Been the same, (wrong)
-Truth be told, Megadeth
Murder will exist whether you have guns or not. People who don't fear the law will not fear committing murder any differently than they will fear owning a firearm.
People who do fear the law enough to give up their guns will only be sitting ducks to those who don't fear the law.
so there's no point in having laws?
There is a point to laws but all they really do is to have a promise to hold someone accountable if they break that law. Laws only prevent crime so far as the punishment for said crime is enough to make you not want to do it.
If laws are based around a moral framework, like not murdering, those would be easier to follow than to be in possession of something which has none. Especially if the possession alone doesn't harm anyone.
so possession of drugs should not be banned. all drugs should be legal.
Yes. Doing drugs on its own, much like alcohol, does not harm other people.
Throwing these people in prison will only take up space that could have been used for people who are actual threats to society. It would be better if they are taken to rehab instead and not leave a stain on their criminal record.
That makes no sense.
Having a gun can protect you from someone who wants to harm you with their gun.
Having addictive substances in your pocket is supposed to protect you from getting addicted?
Steling from others is supposed to defend your belongings from other thieves?
This question is dumb shit.
@DildΦ phΦ be how can you protect yourself against someone who has a plane? I guess we should allow everyone to have anti aircraft guns
Suuure... try and ban something that will happen with guns or no guns. :)
Address mental health and social issues. This is what drives the person to want to kill another human being.
You seem to be unable to differentiate between eliminating something completely and reducing it. That's something you may want to fix.
still need punishment to deter. in fact when france CHANGED from death penalty stopped, the murder rate per capita ROSE without death penalty.
France has one of the world's lowest murder rates. It's not a gun shooting free for wall like the US
murder is already "legally" banned my dude.
Yes I know, Where did I say it wasn't "banned" or "legally banned"?
guess i missread your question. i beg to differ tho. banning guns significantly reduces murder, cause murder is more difficult without guns. yes sure someone who's determined to murder another person will probably still do it but even then, the odds of them succeeding are reduced. "banning guns doesn't stop murder" is in itself a no brain correct statement, cause obviously nothing will ever "stop murder". it just reads like NRA propaganda tho, who wanna sweep the fact that the ammounts of murders can be reduced under the rug.
Bann everything bad, that'll stop it lol
@spartan55 lol it never works hahaha
it never worked with cocaine or murder either
@spartan55 are you admitting to doing a bit of murder?
@John_Doesnt
LOL uh... no? But you seem to enjoy making shit up.
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