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Prosecutors say Jennifer Crumbley had a duty under Michigan law to prevent her son, who was 15 at the time, from harming others. She's accused of failing to secure a gun and ammunition at home and failing to get help for her son's mental health.
I mean…. tough call. I don’t have all the facts, I didn’t follow the case, I just kind of vaguely know the deal. I did hear something about how she had been boasting on social media about going to the gun range with him, etc. If you have guns, it’s whatever, man, I’m not going to fight with you about the mere ownership. ENTHUSIASM for guns, I find that much more alarming, and a red flag, even when you’re hyping it’s self-defense capabilities.
Unless you’re REALLY in the trenches, I think we’d all do well to stop walking around in fear of being victimized by a violent criminal. Like I feel like the preparedness-to-frequency ratio is way, way, WAY out of whack. I hear the “a gun is like a fire extinguisher” thing…. but nobody goes on Facebook with videos of themselves at the fire extinguisher range. Like bottom line, if you in your heart of hearts think your gun makes you more of a badass…. take a lap. Take several laps, lmao. Again, have your gun, practice at the range, do what you feel the need to do, but the advertisement of it makes me think poorly of you. Is the gun for you, or for US, to be like “whoa, watch out for Clint Eastwood over here…”?
So if this woman is of that ilk, I’m less inclined to believe her to be a responsible gun owner, and possibly an irresponsible parent altogether. Your kid could’ve blown his own head off, too, he was clearly troubled, that was no secret. Keeping the gun in a safe place and out of his hands just was not enough of a priority.
Guns give great power. “With great power comes great responsibility”, and all that. And with great irresponsibility comes great consequences. So here we are. We gotta do something. It’s not just mental health. We had fucked up kids at every school I ever went to, and the had their own classroom and were kept separate, but mental health issues are in no way a new phenomenon. Mass shootings, particularly in schools, ARE. People who enjoy guns don’t want to acknowledge or address it, but something is going to have to give. I hate to even say it, but it’s been quiet so far this school year, and there’s no way we get through 2024 without a school massacre. I hate that I even have to say that, but that’s how I feel. Guns are easier to regulate than mental health and individual behavior. It just is what it is, but something needs to be done. Or we can just keep letting kids get killed senselessly, whatever, as long as we still get to feel tough🤦♂️
If someone steals your car and drives drunk with it, are you responsible for not locking it thoroughly enough?
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32Opinion
There is a real slippery slope with this. I understand the sentiment of believing this could have been prevented if the mother had interacted sooner. However the Columbine kids were really good at concealing their heinous plans among their family. Some teens are very sneaky.
I can also see some paranoid parents going above and beyond to control their weird yet non-violent teenage sons. This can screw up these kids even more. Because now they are being falsely suspected of something they are not guilty of. My own mother went above and beyond snooping on me growing up. On a few occasions she falsely believed I was up to no good when I wasn’t. This lack of trust made me deeply resent her and ironically made me do more bad behavior out of defiance.
Anyway this whole mass shooting incident is way more complicated then just gun control, holding parents criminally responsible, etc. It’s a byproduct of our f*cked up culture and how it’s screwing people up. I say that as a relative of a victim of mass school shooting.
No, not unless there is evidence she knew of his plans. That is a rabbit hole that could lead to also blaming the school and friends. Some things are out of your control - similar to when your kid becomes an addict. It is up to them to eventually get help and the parents cannot do much if they did their best.
Also, it is not possible to fully know what your teenage kid is going through mentally, as it can be very easy to hide. Also, she could have told him where the guns were incase of an emergency, which many parents do.
Yes.
These "parents" - though the words trash are far more suitable - were informed that their son was having issues. And having worked with troubled youths (e. g. runaways, etc.) bluntly most trash "parents" ARE told there's a problem (or the problem becomes obvious by kids' actions) before it gets to a serious level like this.
These worthless humans were informed multiple times by the school their child was having issues. These... people... were told to take him for counseling. They did not address his and the school's AND the counseler's requirements for help. They did not care for their son putting work (affairs & even animals, her horses, above his needs).
Their actual response to all these issues? Instead of getting him help.
Buy a gun for him and DON'T tell the school. And then because they are just disgusting examples of humanity... try to blame the school for the shooting.
s Yes and no... Really you can't hide something well from a teen! 🤣
Most parents ignore Thier kids health when it's bad. Ignore them in general so they can be charged with neglect.
Most parents won't know Thier kid is mentally destructive or just enjoying gta a lot.
Teens hide stuff and feelings!
This is only going to make more kids shoot up the schools! Being mad at Thier parents wanting them to pay also! Leaving fake clues that Thier parents knew about it.
Really stop giving these people 5 minutes of fame on TV!
That one is super weird. The kid was tried as an adult, and then the parent was tried for basically not controlling the minor. Is he a minor or an adult? There was also no law in Michigan disallowing parents from giving a firearm to a minor, which seems stupid, but that was not itself a crime.
With that said, the parent should have known there was an issue so yes, some punishment is in order. It might be legal for me to grant access to one of my firearms to a non-felon friend, but if I know the friend is unstable and allow access and then that friend shoots someone, I can get charged as well. A parent even more so.
I saw that on the news. This sets a terrible precedent for future mass shootings, by saying that someone other than the shooter is equally responsible. I bet that will be overturned on appeal. Nobody in their right mind would want their son to commit mass murder, and this seems over the top to me,
... BUT having an unsecured firearm in the house is irresponsible as hell, and they should have never allowed that to occur, and maybe that is one reason for the conviction.
I think it depends on the circumstances. The child should still get a talking to and some discipline of some sort for their actions. But most of the time these shootings happen as a result of 1. They're bullied by other kids or 2. They have bad parents & childhood.
Parents SHOULD be held accountable, but also maybe the school counselor that dropped the ball… Teachers had previously reported disturbing behavior to the counselor, who twice never followed up with the student, no call was made to his parents THOSE times…
Let’s be real, 99% of all our mental problems come from how our parents raised us. If the government chooses to punish the parents, the parents will push for the government to solve the problem instead, ie free therapy for minors on tax dollar dime. Honestly, I’d be happy with that.
Yes you raised them, and should know what your dumb ass son is getting up to and that he is getting a hold of guns in their spare time. Your kid should not be able to get up for school and leave your house loaded with guns and ammo to shoot up their school. That is on you. Also i seen one family they bought the kid the gun. It's like wtf? They can't drink or vote but you think your friendless weirdo of a kid is old enough and responsible enough to own a gun?
biting fingernails...
as a step parent of a child, I vote no... it's not my fault!!
I have this risk, I try to manage it. I'm sometimes too nice and I'm working on being more strict... always been a challenge of mine.
might depend upon how negligent they were, there is some responsiblity, but not all.
Yes especially if Firearms are accessible not properly secure you're just a shitty parent in general there's this video online crime network of this father finding out his I think 12 or 13 year old daughter got shot in chest and he breaks down as soon as the officer on the body cam tells him that she was pronounced deceased the father of the other kid got charged for having an unsecured firearm the father and the kid both got charged I am all for that
Failing to secure a gun and ammunition pulls the trigger for me. There are so many places to hide them that it was absolutely contributory negligence.
Failing to get help for her son's mental health. Even though it may be true, there are too many mitigating factors.
In this particular case, it's clear the mother was negligent, however the act itself is the responsibility of the individual. That's what differentiates a good and a bad person. It doesn't matter what kind of circumstances someone goes through. A good person will never give in to evil thoughts, whereas a bad person would. It's the result of your brain's predetermined wiring. The boy should be held fully accountable for his actions.
This happened a while ago so I don't remember all the details but these shooters typically have a troubled childhood so I agree that the parents should be held responsible if there is proof that they abused the kid, they should also be responsible if they were in cohorts with the child. If this was kept as a secret from them, I don't think they should be held responsible.
What caused the child to shoot up the school? Were they bullied? Lots of blame can be assigned rather than trying to solve the problem. Seems the better solution would be to solve the damn problem instead of trying to assign who is at fault.
Depends. The judge and jury should be able to look back at their history on how they have raised and treated their kids. Like social media, any type of documents, what family members have said in the past about their parenting, potential medical perceptions, etc. If they have done the absolute best they could to raise a STAR child then no. But if the parent was either absent or just never disciplined their child and taught them right from wrong, then yes most definitely.
If you give a gun to a nutjob you're to blame for his actions. This is exactly why in the UK you need a doctors signature to say you haven't got a screw loose before you can buy a gun.
The law in Washington state now says guns should be kept locked away. That's the only reason I agree if it's the law in Michigan. As far as mental health issues I don't believe that parents are responsible. My experience on gag tells me that a juvenile could develop problems just from this along with most social media sites. It's unfortunate that the internet is capable of such a thing but I think that a person would be very delusional to not agree. It's very obvious now.
Generally speaking, parents ought not to be held responsible for the crimes of their kids. That said, if the parent was so egregiously negligent and performed actions that helped things along (like buying a gun for a mentally disturbed kid) which any reasonable person would know is likely to lead to something horrible happening, then absolutely, charge them.
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