How would you personally construct a government to be immune from corruption?

[Juxtapose]

I will give a example informed by my personal opinion.

I think the simplest solution to this problem is a benevolent dictatorship headed by an immortal who isolates themselves from corrupting forces such as advisors, media, etc. It'd likely be an alien A. I humans can't hack, control or overcome whatsoever. The alien artificial intelligence would have humanity completely under its control.

Or perhaps connect all of humanity to a single hivemind so they are incapable of deviating into corruption. Clearly humans will continue to be ruled by narcissistic, machiavellian sociopaths unless something drastic is done.

What would you lovely people personally do to construct a government that is immune from corruption and infiltration by narcissistic, machiavellian sociopaths? Keep in mind that even the United State's masterfully crafted Constitution is easily exploitable and the only President we have ever had that got our national debt to zero was the seventh one, Andrew Jackson. He had to be very aggressive to get these changes passed and his dying regret was not killing more corrupt politicians by his own hand.

Updates

+1 y

"Oh you're just surrendering to authoritarianism and you are weak."

Okay, show me an alternative solution that will actually work. Because with the way humanity is going right now? We are going to destroy ourselves, but not before devolving into a technocratic dystopia where artificial intelligence can aid the elite in controlling every aspect of our lives.

[Cheapskate]

I don't need a squeaky clean government. I would love to have that, but with humans, that is fundamentally not realistic.

It seems obvious to me that democracy becomes a nonsensical concept when wealth can buy influence that voting rights can't possibly compete with.

So yeah, in my model, no lobbying whatsoever. I've heard that political campaigns are publicly funded in Australia, which sounds like a good way to level the playing field.

[Cheapskate]

thanks for MHO 🙏

[normalice]

It starts with public education. Sort that out as a priority and the next steps become more clear.

[strateguy632]

teach what? we already have public scools, also teens drop out.

[normalice]

Republicans have been defunding public schools to create failure as a pretext for handing them over to private capital for decades.

[Juxtapose]

We should take all these military bases off of the fucking map and dedicate that money to the school system frankly.

[normalice]

Having a military is important, but it may be true we are in excess of what the world needs even if we are to be democracy's muscle. In any case, I would say subsidizing the rich is the far lower hanging fruit we could pluck to better fund public schools. But we can't agree to vote for the guy who has made it a priority to tax the rich because the media owned by the rich has convinced us "other" things are more important..

[Juxtapose]

The absolute best thing someone can do for this country is to get money out of politics in my opinion.

[normalice]

We agree

[Superreader]

That sentence is paradoxical. Where there’s greed and power, there’s government and therefore corruption. But steps can certainly be made.
-No zoning laws

-Perhaps hypocritical, but I’m gonna say it anyway. Return Roe v. Wade under federal.
-Less monitoring and control of free speech and freedom of expression. Even if it turns out to be hate speech or an offensive flag or outfit.
-End gerrymandering.
-Stop making working people pay for major decisions the federal government makes; for example, funding war efforts (with the exception of relief efforts) that the people never voted to take on to begin with.
-No common core or federal education department as it currently exists.
-The government should not be helping big pharma stay and remain corrupt!
-Let’s bring respectable candidates into office for once.

[Billlewis]

Yes, ma'am, I just started following you and I'd like to invite you to follow me, as well, if that's alright. Thank you very much.

[Juxtapose]

You should also keep in mind though that the narcissistic, machiavellian sociopaths are incredibly adaptable and creative. Try to think from their position what they would do to circumvent your measures and then realize that whatever they would do is far worse and more insidious.

[goaded]

Educating your population well in a free democracy.

Teach children from an early age how to spot advertising, propaganda, and other manipulation techniques.

Is this shoe with a tick or three stripes really 10x better than this one that costs 10x less and was probably made in the same factory? Why do salespeople pressure you into making an instant decision? Is there any evidence for this politician's claim? Cui bono?

Leaders prioritising loyalty or agreement over competency should be avoided. People who tell you they're planning something bad should be believed. (Republicans saying women should be executed for using Plan B, for example.)

https://twitter.com/MrsAMartini/status/1773160427981070620

[Juxtapose]

Wow, a post where I am in agreement with you!

Fuck those dirt bags trying to give women the death penalty over a fucking zygote by the way.

[goaded]

We probably agree about more than you think, but we talk about the things we disagree about.

[ApplePie409]

You will probably hate my answer, because most people, do. In a couple hundred years, money won't exist. This isn't my idea, Bill and Elon, and a bunch of other smart people can see it coming.

The absence of money will render corruption, obsolete.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/vJgtRBkFnfw

It will happen in phases.

No one on the Enterprise got paid. So why didn't they just stay home on the couch"

If all of your needs were met, what job would you do for free? I would work with animals. (except bats)

https://www.youtube.com/embed/W9spwDEcz5I

[Juxtapose]

You would absolutely need machines then to do the jobs that nobody wants to do. And a lot of people would be straight up unwilling to work unless you forced it on them.

My personal calling would be fighting corruption but I wouldn't want to spend 40 hours a week doing it.

[Juxtapose]

Working with animals is pretty dope too.

[ApplePie409]

Machines have been taking over for decades.

[Juxtapose]

As long as the machines could take care of the jobs that nobody wants to do for pleasure (which is almost all of them) then that is good. But what of the people who control the machines?

[Juxtapose]

And we actually do have enough resources currently in the world to make Americans live very comfortably while working 30 hours a week or less. We just don't do it because of corruption.

[Levin]

We already have the precursor of the UBI with the bloated benefits system in the UK. Just makes slaves out of us and causes resentment. Recipients of benefits become dependents of the state, losing will and motivity to work, and spiritually impovirishing them. Those who can still be bothered to get out of bed and work are resentful for funding a system in which they see no personal benefit and if anything are less well off than those on benefits. I probably see about 60% of my on paper wage because most of it is pilfered by the state.

Money will be phased out because it is part of the plan. A digital system makes it easier to control.

Absense of money won't render corruption obsolete.

You will have a peasant or subsistent class, entranced with their 8 second tiktok attention span to their screens, and the powers that be still travelling around on private jets while decrying the peasants for owning a polluting motor vehicle. Didn't you know you can just cycle 15 miles to and from work each day?

I'm not sure UBI deals with the basic economic question of unlimited wants and limited resources.

[ApplePie409]

@Levin

Wrong. Money isn't about the form it comes in. I agree with you that currency will be replaced by a type of electronic version that the government can control. But I'm looking centuries past that. No money.
There are tons of material you can watch and read that will explain this. I realize it's a hard concept to grasp, because we've always had to work for our pay.

[Avicenna]

Lee Kwan Yew did this in Singapore, in a region notorious for corruption. In one of his books, he said Singapore paid government workers well and instituted a zero-tolerance policy for corruption. Hiring was also pretty meritorious. It should be said, though, that this model isn't replicable with a big-government welfare state with a huge military industrial complex (the US), both of which breed corruption.

[Juxtapose]

What do you think the United States could do to most closely emulate what he did?

[Avicenna]

Reduce the size of government workforces, which is also going to mean reducing the mission creep, also for the military. Even with much higher salaries, you will still get a lot of deadwood in the federal workforce in particular if you don't reduce the size of the workforce (half of the federal workforce isn't needed). Singapore was able to get the best into government because it received so much foreign investment, including foreign managers (something that continues to this day), so there wasn't a "crowding out" effect in the search for talent.

Singapore also didn't have control freak leftists as elites, and leftists always want control of government to implement their agenda. So leftists would need to be defeated.

[Avicenna]

One other thing- Singapore also sees the family as the core unit of society and a lot of policy there was transmitted through traditional family structures. Think that exists in the US (even if you substitute the nuclear family for traditional extended family)? No way.

[Cheapskate]

Plus he was an autocrat, which I would consider corrupt in itself.

[Avicenna]

Much of the problem in the US is that a lot of things the government does is opaque and that breeds corruption as well. It's hard to provide oversight, especially when investigative journalism is practically nonexistent anymore.

[strateguy632]

now this immortal you wrote... who interpreted his messages, the church of saints or the church of later saints?

also how do you invite that immortal? send green lantern (2011)?

the thing we need is councils to investigate people are obeying laws and courts to give punishment that deters... oh we have that already

great.

that is how they caught the ones on your long list.

to further limit corruption we need to stop promoting atheism that criminals rely on "i won't get caught".

similarly public scools need to teach "god is watching" all the time... then some criminals will stop.

[Juxtapose]

I am a atheist without an ounce of faith in my being but I don't commit crimes because I have a brain. I realize how it hurts society and I care about that hurt.

[Juxtapose]

*an atheist

[RealMarek]

There is no solution in the United States without expropriation without compensation from the elites, break-up of massive real-estate holdings and return of ag land to common people via homesteading, and break-up of the giant media and tech companies. If we don’t do this, all but the ruling elites will be reduced to serfdom.

[Unit1]

Wish I had an idea. Ever figure society may have been better off without those politicians and bodies we've never seen controlling nearly every aspect of our average joe & jane doe lives in the first place overall?

[Juxtapose]

If there's a power vacuum then it would be filled by the mafia.

[Unit1]

That is correct.

[RebelinSteel]

You can’t it’s impossible, humans are involved and all humans have the ability to be corrupt.

[Juxtapose]

That's why I bring up the idea of advanced, alien artificial intelligence and hiveminds. I hope it doesn't have to be that high tech or fantastical for us to fix our shit.

[RebelinSteel]

Someone has to decide on the code, who influences th code decides what goes on

[Juxtapose]

That's why I mentioned aliens.

[RebelinSteel]

Because aliens are not prone to corruption?

Also who decides who is corrupt among humans?

History has shown that you accuse everyone else to hide your own corruption

Those making the lists or suggesting people will be corrupt

[Juxtapose]

Aliens are an unknown quantity, so they could theoretically be our salvation or our annihilation.

I'm more willing to bet on aliens than I am willing to bet on the current future of humanity. We are fast on track to be subjugated by machines and have every aspect of our lives, even our inner thoughts, controlled by narcissistic, machiavellian sociopaths.

[RebelinSteel]

But who would decide who needs to be removed?

We are not going to be controlled by machines, that is not possible as we do not have AI.

[Juxtapose]

This is why I specified an alien A. I.

Yeah I know that's not going to happen in my lifetime but I'm brainstorming solutions whether they be in the future or now.

[RebelinSteel]

With a large number of evolving parties to vote for, there is a reduction on who can gain from things

Reducing age and removing the ability to serve for longer than 15 years in government is important
No leaders can be older than 65/70
No people in power can be older than 70
Removing power from older people is a good move
I would be tempted to say 65 across the board and no longer than 15 years

[Juxtapose]

What would you do to counteract the efforts by the deep state to circumvent those measures by adapting to it?

[RebelinSteel]

What deep state? A country that has a ‘deep state’ must blame itself for having one. You ensure that people have a wider voting option. By having a wider mix, the impact of any deep state is removed. Also ensure no religion is involved.

[Dongie]

Perhaps like those boys did here a couple centuries ago but instill fucking term limits in every office of legislation and limit the number of relatives per generation along with the death penalty for lying in congress.

[Juxtapose]

Who would determine who is the liar or not?

[Dongie]

The lazy Judicial branch as they should have already done so. Adam Schiff has told more lies than truths. He should be dragged down the road by a truck.

[John_And_Elijah]

Kill off those behind the corruption. The Rothschilds, Rockefellers, and practically every well-known Democrat. Satanic Republicans don't have as much of an influence on government corruption, but the Dems, forget about it!!

[John_And_Elijah]

You'll still be left with corruption, but you'll slow down the evil from reaching their goal.

[Juxtapose]

That's the most realistic solution but it's difficult to get people to agree to take such drastic measures. If only a few people advocate that then they will be taken to black sites or just straight up assassinated.

[Juxtapose]

I'm hoping non-violent solutions can help stem the tide of corruption.

[John_And_Elijah]

And let's not forget about George Soros.

[AviatorTom]

I would be dictator, supported by my AI generated military that only I control.

[Juxtapose]

Hey man, that would be a better system under you than whatever the hell we got going on now xD

[KrakenAttackin]

I don't think you can eliminate corruption as corrupt people seek positions of power. We could start by making corruption in office a Capital offense, and enforce the law rigorously.

[Juxtapose]

We can make as many laws as we want but they routinely get ignored by those in power and the citizenry are too apathetic to hold those in power accountable because they expect their representatives to represent them.

[Juxtapose]

*is too

[KrakenAttackin]

I agree completely, which is why examples need to be made.

[jshm2]

There is no such thing as "immune from corruption" it's like saying you want a life where you are never sick.

[Juxtapose]

The problem is so severe it is going to lead to humanity's extinction because we can't get our shit together.

[gorydetails]

It’s already been constructed. If the US government followed the constitution the corruption would at least be contained.

[Juxtapose]

Clearly writing words on a piece of paper is not good enough. The United States is not even coming close to solving this problem with the balances of power and whatnot in the constitution. Corrupt politicians simply ignore it.

[Juxtapose]

At the rate humanity is going, we are going to become extinct.

[Jamie05rhs]

So your solution is giving up and submitting to a global totalitarian government. Great job. You have officially played yourself. 👏👏👏

[Juxtapose]

I'm being brutally honest with the solutions even though they are unpleasant. If humanity keeps up on its current track then we are going to become extinct because of narcissistic, machiavellian sociopaths ruining everything for the rest of us.

[Juxtapose]

Do you have any better solutions or are you only here to criticize my solutions?

[Jamie05rhs]

That's the same thing that the communists say.

[Jamie05rhs]

So, I'm sorry, but you've gone off the deep end there, my friend.

[Juxtapose]

So no solutions then.

[Jamie05rhs]

Christianity is the solution. (But a lot of people don't want to hear that.)

[Juxtapose]

So your solution to global corruption is a religion that has no evidence to substantiate it?

[Jamie05rhs]

Here we go... 🙄

[Juxtapose]

Am I wrong?

[Jamie05rhs]

You're missing the point. Try not to get hung up on belief, okay? All you need to do is follow the Way. Which includes ethical behavior. (Do not steal, do not lie, etc.)

[Juxtapose]

I am an atheist and I have virtuous behavior. I don't steal when stealing would bring zero negative consequences to me personally. I treat my animals well, even when other people aren't looking. I don't litter, even though nobody will stop me.

I don't need religion to teach me to be a good person, that's the job of my parents and myself.

[Jamie05rhs]

@Juxtapose And that's wonderful. I commend you for all of that. But it doesn't take away from the fact that religion helps to teach those values.
Even though you learned them from your parents, I'm sure your parents had some exposure to religion, at least. Or if not them, then your grandparents.

[OddBeMe]

Stupid people do flock to dictators, believing they’re benevolent. Funny how fascism or commie never worked out.

America’s constitution got the closest so far. We just allowed special interests (aka rich fucks) to insert consumerism to keep us from balancing out the corruption. The “balance of powers” was fcking brilliant.

But it doesn’t work when half the country is so fucking stupid.

[strateguy632]

finally we agree on something. nice.

[Juxtapose]

I am putting out solutions that would actually solve the problem despite being unpleasant. Do you have any solutions or are you only going to criticize the ones I put out?

The fact that I even floated the idea of a hivemind should show you that I am looking at even fantastical solutions to stop this very real problem. This is a major problem and it's going to require something drastic, feel free to suggest better ideas.

Because frankly the United States is not even coming close to cutting it. Our species is on track to become extinct but go ahead and hold on to your silly little ideals while we sink into a dystopian hell hole and killer selves 🤣

[Juxtapose]

*kill ourselves

[Dargil]

I don't think it's possible.

[Alwayreckles93]

I would just move to a different country.