Is this anywhere close to being reasonable?

[msc545]

I don't think it is at all:

https://laist.com/brief/news/criminal-justice/alec-baldwin-goes-on-trial-this-week

Yes, I think it was his fault:

No, this is unreasonable and not his fault:

Updates

1 y

Both the armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed and the Prop manager Sarah Zachry were hired by Rust Movie Productions LLC, both were recommended for the positions by Seth Kenney.

Seth Kenney is the owner of PDQ Arm & Prop LLC, which supplied prop weapons and ammunition to the production.

Updates

1 y

Alec Baldwin’s “Rust” shooting trial was dismissed with prejudice Friday, after a judge ruled that prosecutors improperly withheld potential evidence from the defense team.

[Sevenpointfive]

it's not really his fault. he should know which guns are live and which aren't. 18 months in prison for a big payday isn't that bad when it could be life. i presume all of the DEI hires involved are either dead, injured or punished, but the white guy will walk free

[PatKirby]

Yes it's incredibly unfair. The armorer got 15 months in prison while trigger man Alec Running-Dog Baldwin is using ninja lawyers to escape justice by using the celebrity card. That woman had a future and he took that away and her parents lost a daughter. Not so hot shot now are ya funny man Baldwin? They're probably going to give you community service anyway but you're still liable so paying the parents $100M is the honorable thing to do. Be a man and pay up!

[msc545]

Baldwin's responsibility was to be an actor. The armorers responsibility was to make sure that the guns in ammunition were safe. She didn't do that.

[PatKirby]

Baldwin's. Finger. Pulled. The. Trigger.

Pay up scumbag.

[msc545]

As an actor, his finger was supposed to pull the trigger. The gun was NOT supposed to have live ammo and he was told by the armorer it didn't. He was entitled to rely on her supposed expertise in this regard.

Please don't ever be on a jury.

[msc545]

I was just suggesting that you never be on a jury without any. Hope that you would actually act on my suggestion. On the other hand, since you accurately point out that the court or the attorneys are the people that decide who can be on juries, I'm fairly confident that they would conclude that you are far too stupid for this. If not too biased in addition to the stupidity.

[msc545]

Also modesty you seem to have forgotten modesty. About as charming as a snake and about as intelligent.

[ChinaGrove]

Pat, Alec claimed that his finger wasn't on the trigger. That turned out to be a lie.

[GoodGuyBreakingBad]

Yes, it was his fault.

[msc545]

In what way?

[AviatorTom]

I'm not going to assign blame yet but a trial is warranted. His actions resulted in someone's death. Is it reasonable to point a gun at someone, whether you believe it's loaded or not? The trial will answer that question.

[msc545]

No, his actions didn't result in anyone being killed. The negligence of the armorer is what resulted in the death. The script called for him to point a prop gun at somebody or a real gun that was loaded with blank ammunition. Every movie script that involves guns calls for this and if you want to lose your job as an actor real quick, you can skip over that step. Scripts have been written like this for as long as they have existed and as long as film has existed. It isn't going to change now as a result of this incident. The woman that was the armorer had as her almost sol qualification. The fact that her father was a very famous armorer. Her only additional qualification was the fact that she worked cheap and she did this because she was just starting out and was very inexperienced and the people making this movie needed to save a lot of money in order to finish the film.

[AviatorTom]

@msc545 I never said I think it's his fault. I simply said that a trial is reasonable. After all, he was the one who held the gun and pointed it. If the trial points out what you say, and the judge and jury agree, he will be found not guilty. That's how justice works

[msc545]

Yes, you are right. A trial is needed.

[goaded]

Didn't he pull the trigger on a gun while it was pointing at the victim? He'd been told it was safe, but even I know the first rule of firearms is to treat every one as if it's loaded. Involuntary manslaughter sounds about right.

[msc545]

That is not a law. It is simply a safety rule. You can't charge anybody criminally for not following a safety rule

[goaded]

So if you don't secure a load properly and someone gets crushed when it slips, it's not your fault? It's "involuntary" for a reason; he didn't intend to kill her, but his actions resulted in her death.

[msc545]

Yeah in this particular case the armorer didn't check the guns properly or the ammunition properly and that is what resulted in the death. Baldwin reasonably relied on the armorers supposed expertise. There was no reason for him not to and many reasons for him to do that at the time. I don't think people really appreciate how time sensitive film production is until they've been involved in it as I have. You can bet however that going forward actors are going to start checking prop guns and ammunition extremely carefully.

[goaded]

I'd agree with you if Baldwin had shot someone he was supposed to "shoot" as part of a scene. That was part of his job. Mucking about with someone in the way is just stupid.

[msc545]

That was the script and part of his job as an actor. That gun was supposed to be safe and he was told it was.

[goaded]

He didn't fire the gun while the cameras were rolling, or we'd have seen the video.

[msc545]

We do not know if the cameras were filming or not but No - that video if it exists will never be released.

[goaded]

I don't think he'd have changed his story about whether he'd pulled the trigger or not, if it was on film. That said, it sounds like he might have been "on duty" at the time:

"On the day of the shooting, Oct. 21, 2021, the production was setting up a tight frame of Mr. Baldwin’s character — a grizzled outlaw named Harland Rust — drawing an old-fashioned revolver from a shoulder holster and pointing toward the camera when the weapon fired."
https://archive.is/0yh5u

Let the jury work it out.

[msc545]

Agreed.

[Iron_Man]

I heard that story before everything is basically a guessing game and why would he want to murder anybody anyway so it’s probably a mistake

[goaded]

He's charged with involuntary manslaughter.

[exitseven]

The armorer got a jail sentence. Alac Baldwin

[msc545]

She got 15 months in prison, but she was responsible for checking the ammo and making sure the guns were safe, which she obviously did not do.

Baldwin was not responsible for any of this.

[exitseven]

The fish always rots from the head down.

[msc545]

He wasn't the head of anything. He was just an actor in this and an executive producer which is Hollywood speak for an honorary producer. It just gets him an additional credit. He's not really in charge of anything except his own acting.

[exitseven]

The armored was not a real gun expert. She may have been the friend of a friend. Whoever allowed her to be hired bears some responsibiity.

[msc545]

Her father is a famous Hollywood armorer (Thell Reed) and allegedly taught her how to be an armorer. As I noted before, she was inexperienced but worked cheap, and this was needed for this low budget film. It is unclear who hired her, but it was definitely NOT Baldwin.

[ChinaGrove]

Seven, imagine this. Alec was having an affair with the victim. The armorer could check the gun 500 times. Does that mean Alec couldn't load it on the sly? How clever would you have to be to put a shell in your shotgun? I suggested that you get a Mantis X. Before you dry-fired against the wall, you would at LEAST triple check to see if the gun was unloaded. You wouldn't ask your neighbor to check it for you, and then blame your neighbor for the accidental death.