What makes a Society considered to be, or determined to be, referred to as ‘Civilized’?

[Rosexøxø]

And IS a Society still civilized, if crime is still found within it?

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1 y

Thoughts?

[QuestionObsession]

The true measure of a society is in how it treats its criminals and prisoners, the most abandoned and discarded part of any society. Finland lets their murderers have a normal work life from prison and their prisons are more like motels. BUT it is their flaw and lack of sense of proper justice. Because a rapist in that country has a less sentence than a tax evader.

[Rosexøxø]

So you personally believe: Society or societies. (And whether or not it’s civilized or not)

Is determined by

Or

Rests upon the results in the *quality of prison life* for the prisoners? Alone?

[Rosexøxø]

I’m just trying to see if I get you

[QuestionObsession]

Prisons are just symbolic. What it means is, how a society treats its worst and most abandoned members (the poor, sick, dying, orphans, terminally ill, handicapped, victims of ill fate etc) is the true measure of civilization. Most of the civilized world today seeks to profit from even tragedy and suffering of people. So there is really no such thing as civilization in today's world.

[Rosexøxø]

I agree. I just found it difficult to grasp at first cause it seemed like you had generous amounts of pity for criminals of any place. Not really any concern for anyone else in the societal group 😂

I don’t know if I agree with the best affectionate or treatment that resembled reward- for the criminals, but if the countries and people do handle those individuals’ situations better, along with other overlooked factors and cheaply done things, then the city would rise and rise more in its overall level of civility and civilization.

[QuestionObsession]

This is exactly what most people cannot understand is that criminals are not demons from another planet but are the product of society, they come from within the worst aspects of society and not from anywhere outside. It is very easy to say stuff like 'pity' and 'reward' about criminals, anytime someone speaks in their defence, because we have never lived a single day of their life and is easier to condemn than show compassion. If any one of us 'non criminals' had lived the same life that they were unfortunate to have, every single one of us would have turned out exactly like them.

Any society with criminals is a sick society. And criminals are not born, they are made by society's betrayal of them.

[Rosexøxø]

Yeah but I wouldn’t say betrayal.

Also I have made this exact argument I know exactly where you’re coming from. I just totally missed it cause the way it was worded it felt like you wanted us to you know- give breakfast in bed to criminals and brush their hair, do their laundry for them. Call them sweet. 😂

You mean we should do a better job of trying to prevent crime by giving the help criminals need to them before their behaviors develop into the full blown problems it ends up becoming. Crime even though free choice is always provoked by something else and we need to handle those triggers earlier on. In the name of helping a fellow human before they’re a criminal.

I think even saying help the PEOPLE who become criminals seems better than to say “help criminals.” Because then it seems like we advocate for crime and their poor behavior when we don’t.

I definitely believe I see what you’re saying now.

I always used Les miserables as example because we see him become a “criminal” and he stole to feed his family.

People should have help from starving or having access to basic life care/support than having to have low options to access it and feeling no choice but to resort to crime.

Or even kids who have faced abuse neglect etc and on extreme scales. All these horrible combinations that go unnoticed and then become a bigger issue than prior.

[Rosexøxø]

I really appreciate your comment. Glad to see someone shares this idea of really thoroughly helping the people of a country from the youngest to oldest and the lowest to highest.

[QuestionObsession]

You fully understand what I meant, yes :-)

No did not mean comb their hair and serve them breakfast in bed etc, but to treat them with dignity and not dehumanise them because they fell out of society due to their circumstances.

And everything begins in the childhood. Every person who ever became a criminal had a bad childhood. Even though not all kids who have had a bad childhood turn out criminals when they become adults, but every person who became a criminal, had had a bad past and were robbed of any chance of being helped. It is a choice yes, but if someone is abused or betrayed so much, the only choice that humans make is to hate everything that put them in that situation. And then no choice remains a good choice, because a good choice is towards the very things that they felt betrayed and abused by - the 'good' people.

So, the only way to reduce or eliminate crime is by raising children the right way. But a lot of people become parents who do not deserve to have kids at all, bad parents make abused children and abused children make bad parents. Not all, but quite often.

Will you have kids and remember to give them a good childhood? 🙂

[Rosexøxø]

Oh I don’t plan to have kids for reasons like this and other personal reasons. If I did have them I would respect the living beings they were and do my ultimate best to cultivate a productive and healthy upbringing for them. Leave them feeling prepared for stepping into a bigger world.

[DryGermanGuy]

https://youtu.be/BC-AXJ00ipc?si=7jC09QDvpfLFVd20

[Rosexøxø]

Basically one of my fave actors and one of my fave kind of people lol I never heard of this movie but great scene. You can feel the emotion in it from the Native American.

[jahaims]

.
Civilized - at an advanced stage of social and cultural development.

[Rosexøxø]

Cultural and social** yes

[jahaims]

You don't understand words if you think that changes the meaning

[Rosexøxø]

I reject your comment/opinion and I see there’s no further discussing it. Goodbye.

[DrPepper12]

Urbanization. "Civitas" from Latin meaning "of the city". Every human innovation occured in the city not on the farm.

Crime is a VERY poor proxy to evaluate civilization.

[Rosexøxø]

Well, I just think that’s partially subjective.

By the train of thought WITH and definition OF civilization, one could say tribal people with their boundaries/ perimeter of tents could be a civilization. And earlier people who DEVELOPED fire starting from stone, as well as the use of natural tools: like some stone hammer, could be considered a civilization. And if others agree with this and what I just stated- FAIR. I say that is fair.

I also say that I didn’t say civilization alone (I said society-considered-civilized). A *civilized society.*

I think also ‘utopia,’ ‘metropolis’/‘metropolitan,’ ‘civil,’ ‘civilization,’ and ‘society’ can go hand in hand, and have correlations.

What’s the ultimate idea or vision of a perfectly urbanized civilization?

Without the social aspect?

How can we also reach (that) level of potential if we have roadblocks, in the form of people, who get in the way of such progressions with acts and behavior that’s hostile/primitive, and not interested or concerned with, the practical developments revolved around, and associated with the term ‘civilization’ OR ‘urbanization.’

How is it different within that early city in the distant past, and outside those city limits among primitive people, where it may have been “dog eat dog.”

I suppose we could call criminal behavior (now and then) “science” and natural selection.. “Nature,” if you will…

But I think *evolution requires change for better,* and I don’t see how being around basic; redundant; “wild” behaviors could be representative for that.

[Rosexøxø]

How can the people change entire landscapes and create, but keep the same root behavior of aggression.

Where’s the emotional development in all of that.

Also if civilization is the physical act of getting together/congregating, coexisting, and along with this unity, AND also developing materialistically, I also fail to see how others can ACTUALLY gather- in a safe manner- and continue to develop in a focused way.. and even a collective way.

So, I personally feel if a group of people are being hostile to each other, they will not get (much of) anything done, not create a lot, nor live long enough to behold it.

So, I do think in order for a society to efficiently be considered as civilized and get to that point, truly, they also have to 100% realistically and consistently be civil towards each other. It needs respect. And it needs justice.

Without order amongst and between the people themselves, and order in their technological efforts, those groups will either not make it very far, have bad cycles, or improve at a much, much slower pace. Unfortunately.

[Rosexøxø]

And yes, we need to have clear terminological differences and boundaries so we can have a sense of understanding, but we also have to see what is connected and what things are dependent upon other factors. I just think this ALL should go hand in hand.

How do countries plan to thrive when they’re facing war and little outbreaks/outbursts here and there?

I just want people to think about this, is all. I’m not sure how many people take a minute to think where we are, where we want to go, and where we should be at, RIGHT now. What things SHOULD look like now, presently.

(Also, sorry for the long reply 😆. I agree though. Not a good proxy by itself, but I want to link up all these terms to envision what should be a very reachable reality. We just aren’t 100% there).

[OddBeMe]

Nothing can never be. There will always be crime, poverty etc. but you can raise the national standard of living and decrease most of those factors.

[Rosexøxø]

I don’t know I suppose we can agree to disagree. That is one viewpoint many may hold, and the viewpoint opposite to that will be upheld by another set of people. I see what you mean but I’ll always hope for the opposite and hope for it while I can see how it can be crafted into a more certain reality.

We have highest buildings in world. Pyramids. Faces in Stone Mountain.

Ai. Ships that leave our planet to reach outer space. People flying in metal as means of travel. Others who fly with the opposing forces weighed in their body and still endure it.

Domestication of wolves.

Elephant able to stand on circus ball.

Person able to fight rope.

Records made by humans and documented in books.

People gain immunity to viruses that once killed people before us, and now just affects us in slight coughs on occasion.

Parrots learn human phrases, apes learn sign language, cats and dogs learn communication via audible buttons. Etc.

I just don’t think elimination of crime or poverty is impossible, but if someone says that then they gave up trying to make better, or don’t believe it can themselves. I don’t think we can be where we are, expect better, if we don’t remove certain things from the table, and add other things. If you know what I mean.

[OddBeMe]

Yes but mathematically speaking…if we got crime to all time lows. there will always be people who break it. Could just be homeless people sleeping outside. Usually not enforced. But 0% os impossible

[Rosexøxø]

I appreciate you considering mathematics but I still disagree. Would say why but I can see we just disagree and I’m too lazy to go into it. I won’t change whole cities by my comment in 24 hrs. But thanks for your input.

[OddBeMe]

Humans aren’t machines. We’re literally imperfect. So we cannot be 100% right or 0% innocent.

[Anonymous]

The superior white man civilized me and taught me well.

[Rosexøxø]

Well alright… (not gonna get into that).

[TwoToTooTutu2]

The opinions of the label giver

[Rosexøxø]

I see