Is bullying actually useful for holding conditioning kids out of being incels?

[Anonymous]

[Syntosi]

No. Bullying only reinforces the behaviors that commonly leads to being an incel. Things such as lack of confidence, social isolation and lack of friendships, making them insular and not wanting to reach out and connect to others, etc...

[Asker]

So then why do people bully them? We view the incel as the bad guy and the people who billy them as good. What's the point of bullying them and ostracizing them if it doesn't help?

[Syntosi]

The backlash against incels is not bullying and quite frankly we are not responsible for them getting their shit together.

[Asker]

If you beat someone up, harass them, call them names etc etc, if they're an incel, it wouldn't be bullying, right?

[Asker]

If it's not our job to fix them, I guess why not bully them? They can be societies punching bags for us to vent out frustration. If they don't like it, once they fix themselves it'll stop.

[Syntosi]

Incels are getting harassed online because of what they are doing, its a response. They are not being bullied unprovoked. They are behaving badly due to their own personal issues and then getting the response that they deserve.

An analogue would be if someone were spouting a bunch of racist shit online and then complaining that people were calling him a racist and rejecting them from their community. Sure, they can pretend to be the victim all they want but I got no sympathy for what is essentially equivalent to this:

[Asker]

The thing is most bullies justify their bullying by saying the victim asked for it.

Is the implication that no one is ever misunderstood/mislabeled an incel therefore if someone is being called an incel and harassed/bullied that they are one?

[Billlewis]

Exactly.

[Pohjolan]

The "involuntary" part of incel suggests that they don't desire their current status.
By your logic we could just beat up the homeless and jobless to fix said issues.

[Billlewis]

@Pohjolan. Beat up the homeless... nice;)

[Syntosi]

@Pohjolan
There are many problems with that. First of all, even if you want to claim that they are against their current situation, they are not doing anything about it and is just using the INCEL movement as a way to pass off the blame away from themselves. Its actually fairly normal for people like this to try distance themselves from their own responsibilities.

Secondly, that does not give them the right to harass other people online nor protect them from the consequences of said harassment.

I would be WAAAY more sympathetic with these people if they actually applied themselves. But they dont. They are just intentionally being a plague onto society and then pretend that they are the victims.

[Pohjolan]

@Syntosi
You are ascribing the views and behaviours of a fringe minority to the whole.
Studies have shown that incels are more common than what one might think.
24% of males 22-34 did not have sex in 2022-2023.
US society would be very different if they were as malicious as they are portrayed as.
Most just don't advertise it. You may very well have some incel relative or acquitance without realising it.

[Syntosi]

@Pohjolan I am a firm believer that anyone who tries to find a partner, can. No expectations of having them change. This obviously does not mean that they will have a good relationship if they are not prepared to do the basics but I dont think it precludes them.

In other words, I believe that the only reason why they are incel is because they choose to be incels. If they tried, they would have already succeeded. They might not realize that this is the choice they are making but it is nevertheless their own decision.

Take literally anyone of these incels, does not matter how pathetic they are, have them go out and ask 1000 women if they want to have sex and he will score more women than most people in their life. I dont care if these incels are fat, I dont care if they are mentally disabled. They will score if they tried.

In fact; I would argue that it is even EASIER now since other incels exist. Less competition. Furthermore, if they actually tried then men has a HUGE advantage over women in this regard. Men has historically not really tried where as women in expected to make themselves desirable with makeup and such.

Do what women do, employ makeup, learn and dress with good fashion, exercise and build a desirable body, keep yourself clean and use perfume etc.. Almost NO guys do any of this which means you are instantly in the top 1%.

But no. They are going to be pathetic about it and pretend that they are the victims. Their behavior is disgusting.

[Pohjolan]

@Syntosi
" I am a firm believer that anyone who tries to find a partner, can."
This is obviously not true. For starters there are significantly fewer single women on the mating market than single men.
This by default means that supply won't meet demand at least before robot companions are a thing.

"But no. They are going to be pathetic about it and pretend that they are the victims. Their behavior is disgusting."

Survivorship bias. You don't notice the singles not whining because they aren't whining.
Most incels are invisible to society.
Also you do realise that a woman may be a incel as well?

[Syntosi]

@Pohjolan No, its true and has always been true in history. Even if you want to argue that there are fewer women, its not zero and there is always a rotation as people form and break relationships. If you want to argue that not all can form relationships at once then maybe you would have an argument but we are talking about each individual by themselves.

Its also true that women live longer than men. Which means that the longer you live the fewer men of your age bracket remains and increases your chances further.

Lastly, do you recognize how fucking retarded it is to have both female and male incels at the same time? If anything that proves my point precisely.

[Pohjolan]

@Syntosi
Are you familiar with the game of musical chairs? Your argument is basically that 10 players can sit on 7 chairs at the same time.

"Lastly, do you recognize how fucking retarded it is to have both female and male incels at the same time?"

Being a incel doesn't mean not having any standards at all.

[Syntosi]

@Pohjolan
Being incel means YOU are unable to form relationships. Its a YOU problem. And musical chairs is a lovely example, because what happens when you lose? You play again.. and again.. and again.. Dating does not END after the round is played.

[Pohjolan]

@Syntosi
Oh incels do have to improve themselves to compete. It's not societies fault if they are fat or out of shape.
However we shouldn't pretend that they have equal opportunities.
Some are taller than others. Some are born with golden spoon in their mouth.
Some have disabilities or a illness.
Nor should we pretend that the mating market hasn't changed.

Also no if you lose you are out and another chair is removed for the next round until one remains.

[Syntosi]

@Pohjolan No they do not. Incels do not have to improve themselves at all. Sure, it would help and it would be easy to do but its not required. They can be the fattest and most disgusting person and still get a date, or even easier a one night stand.

The idea that they are just not good enough, either because of lack of effort on their part or even because they think they got screwed by genetics, is a lie.

And yes, the "mating market" (wtf?) has changed. It has gotten even EASIER than before.

Also, no. If you lose then you can just play again. And again. And again.

[Pohjolan]

@Syntosi
" No they do not. Incels do not have to improve themselves at all. Sure, it would help and it would be easy to do but its not required. They can be the fattest and most disgusting person and still get a date, or even easier a one night stand."

That's bullshit. In the current mating market a championship level athlete can struggle to get a date.

"And yes, the "mating market" (wtf?) has changed. It has gotten even EASIER than before."

No. A job market doesn't get easier when the number of available jobs gets smaller while the number of jobless remains the same.

"Also, no. If you lose then you can just play again. And again. And again."

So let's say that there's 100 players and 70 chairs. After the 70 have been taken there's occasionally some free chairs.
It would be still something like 3 chairs for 33 players. It would be still mostly the ones who are faster and have better reaction speed who get the chair.

At some point some players get frustrated and start whining while others just quit playing.

[Syntosi]

@Pohjolan No, the dating market is not like that. You just believe it is and might be too afraid to test it yourself. There are objectively more single women today and objectively fewer men actively looking for relationships. Furthermore, most of them are limiting themselves to online dating which is not the best way to go about it.

And again, modern male standards is to basically not put any effort into yourself. Doing the basics, keeping clean and wearing good clothes already puts you above 50%. Going the "extra mile" by getting your hair cut regularly, taking care of your skin, trimming your nails etc.. puts you well into the top 1% and for what? A bit more monthly expenditure in either time or money. Easy, anyone can do it but almost nobody does which means the male standards are VEEEERY low.

And no. The people who score a date is not those who are "fastest to get to the chair". Its mainly about dumb luck, something that everyone can have as long as they try enough times.

Moral of the story, quitters never win.

[Cormac995]

No! If anything, it makes it worse from what I've seen. Loneliness and abuse don't mix well.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

Bullying doesn’t force them to reflect, it wouldn’t change their minds.

[BarryLiverstone]

Bullying isn’t however shame can be. Being an incel is an active choice and individuals can choose different conclusions if they feel a sense of shame by choosing to give up on life.

[Asker]

What should it look like? Current students typically shame incels by making fun of them for their lack of sex and interest from women. Some people physically harm them, the hope is that they eventually ditch the mindset but we're seeing even more incels than ever.

What would you implement to shame people out of being incels?

[BarryLiverstone]

Shame usually is expressed verbally and would cause the loser to question if their continued lack of action will ever work.

Obv as I said bullying is wrong so any physical assaults should be reported to the police.

[BarryLiverstone]

If you believe that there are more incels today than in the past, that’s not as simple as due to bullying.

[Asker]

I asked what you would implement to enforce shame on to incels to phase them out of society.

[BarryLiverstone]

I wouldn’t phase them out. As I said I would use verbal shame.

[BarryLiverstone]

But if I saw kids going in that direction I may also be their role model and show how acting in a more confident way can get them what they want in life.

[Asker]

I'm asking for specifics, what would have people say to the incels? When do they say it? Where do they say it.

Explain it as if you were writing the law or guidelines for this policy.

[BarryLiverstone]

I’ll pass. Not an expert in writing laws to help motivate all incels. If a friend of mine said their incel buddy needed help then I’d engage with the loser one on one.

[Asker]

You're advocating enforcing society actively shame incels, surely you have an example scenario instead of trollishly vague posting and not backing up what you say.

[Asker]

Give examples of what you feel people should be shouting at incels. Do you support gathering outside of their home and a blaring noise and obscenities shaming them?

[BarryLiverstone]

I’d counter your insinuation of trollish behavior by asking this anon on gag. Then by suggesting actions that are bullying when I said shaming.

[BarryLiverstone]

Have a nice day sir

[Asker]

I see your post history and all you do is troll in bad faith against anonymous posters.

Sounds like a personal issue that you cannot participate in good faith with people who want to stay safe from stalker losers like you. You're giving massive incel vibes. Don't have a good day, reflect and become a better person you're currently a complete asshole

[BarryLiverstone]

Thank you for proving my point by shaming me

[Asker]

I asked a question, I gave you the benefit of the doubt, you then processed to troll and be an asshole to where now I'm showing you animosity. You're now retroactively using my reaction to your shitty behavior as justification for your initial bad faith behavior.

[BarryLiverstone]

You are right

[Pohjolan]

Wait you think we should shame guys into committing suicide for not getting laid?

[ProbablyClueless]

I wasn't aware anyone was saying that. Bullying doesn't seem to help anything.

[Asker]

This site is non-stop bullying, not even just against incels. People are rude, callous, mean, etc because they feel it helps

[Billlewis]

Yes, absolutely, in my opinion.

[Pohjolan]

How come?

[slatyb]

No, it only makes it worse.

[msc545]

No. It is traumatizing.

[Pohjolan]

Nope.