
No one else owns a portion of my labor

No one else owns a portion of my labor
For 137 years we did not have an Income Tax in the US. Then in 1913 a 2% income tax was put on only the richest and it was to go away as it was temporary for WWI. And here we are, taxed heavily and worse yet our money pissed away and now severe debt.
All this while those in Congress become wealthy with no reasonable explanation. We need some taxes but this needs to be fixed. The good news is Trump is firing lots of lazy Federal workers and the new tariffs are bringing in billions a month without all the negatives the Democrats said we would have… they are just hateful people really.
@DrPepper12 Due to you comment I researched this further. The tax was indeed on 2% of the population, so says Grok 3 AI. It was permanent though as it was replacing income from tariffs which had been reduced… that’s interesting.
The tax was 1%. It went up to 7% based on income. 7% was for $500,000 a year in earnings. Adjusting for inflation that is $16.4 million a year in income. Corporate rate was 1%.
Anyway, the other comments stand.
@DrPepper12 keep meat riding the government bitch boy
Absolutely YES!



It’s astonishing to me that a portion of this site views income tax as the mark of a “civilized society”, and I’m proposing this lifestyle of a “caveman.” Wow. It’s actually pretty scary to think about how massively manipulated these people are.
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I mean….. that’s going to inevitably come with an ENORMOUS downgrade to the society we live in, like potentially third-world level.
The most important thing a government maybe exists to do is catch our citizens who fall. Out of benevolence, but also just for everyone’s overall benefit of not dealing with societal problems that would occur if we had all kinds of people running around literally fighting for their survival. Dead bodies in the streets we’d be stepping over. Some of us would have sick houses but off our property would be dystopian.
I kind of got over the Libertarian thing when I was like 15. “Government can’t tell me what to do, and no one can take my money, and fuck everyone who isn’t me or my loved ones, and I’m gonna build a fort, and stock it with 10 years’ supply of canned pork n’ beans and Spam, and have a big arsenal of guns to pew-pew anyone who tries to be the boss of me!😤”

We no longer live in the wild frontier. We should aim to be a modern, progressive society that looks out for one another, that doesn’t take this douchebag sink-or-swim-and-we’ll-laugh-and-sneer-at-the-drowners attitude.
When DOGE kept dropping all these numbers last winter, I’d always divide these large totals they’d claim by the some 160M federal income taxpayers, and it would come out to like $4 a person, for all of it. You can’t get coffee and a donut with that.
Obviously more than $4 dollars goes to taxes, but how do you plan to replace the lost revenue? Even if they give us all back four bucks to get rid of “woke”🤦♂️😂 The other thousands of your dollars that you pay are paying for the military that protects us and keeps our trade routes safe and open; maintenance of roads, water systems, sewage systems, power systems; public services like police, fire, EMS, mail delivery, public works…. what are you expecting, people to just donate to the ones they want? Have you met “people?”🤣 “Oh, uh, yeah…. I’ll send some money to go towards fixing potholes…. next month🤥”
And like I said, social safety nets…. I don’t want to live in some craziness where people are forced to be trying to climb into MY windows, desperate to survive. I don’t want to be in any gunfights with people more desperate than me. That Clint Eastwood shit is cute until the other guy gets the drop on you.
My boy Mike-Mike had someone run up in his spot like ten years go, he was heated up too, but the other guy got him. Mike-Mike is one of the best athletes I ever played with. Now he’s in a wheelchair and can JUSSSSTTTTT move one of his arms enough to hit a blunt or give you a gimpy handshake. Makes me sick everytime I see him.
I don’t want to live in a world of daily break-ins because the people we let sink are desperately trying to swim and have nothing left to lose. I’d rather shut the fuck up and pay my taxes, and count my stars that I live somewhere so prosperous that we don’t have to make bad choices about doing the right thing morally “because money.”
Tldr
Why bother asking a complicated question when you can't be bothered to actually read answer longer than a sentence?
Do you want a federal government to provide for our defense, and provide other essential services? If so, where should they get the money to pay for those things?
Ideally there shouldn't be any tax or government at all. But without both of those you still get "taxed" by providing labor in a cooperative environment. Freeloaders would get banned.
Realistically we have taxes. There are hundreds of kinds of taxes, and some are worse than others. Income tax sucks. Property tax sucks even more. I prefer "use taxes", such as sales tax, excise taxes, tariffs, fees for services, fees for parks, etc.
So if income tax is abolished, what will take it's place? Income tax is a pretty big source of income. Abolishing it means either replacing it with another tax, or drastically reducing the government. I'd love to cut the government drastically, but I know that's not going to happen.
With taxes, it's the lesser of the evils. Taxes are spread out, with many different taxes, so it's less noticeable. Taxes that don't directly tax the voters are sneaky. For example the very high motel/hotel taxes that have become so popular. It's mostly people from elsewhere who pay those, not the local voters. "Corporate tax" is another sneaky one. It's played off like a tax on big bad corporations, but it's really just a hidden tax that regular people pay.
So how would you fund government if not by income tax? What would you tax instead that would be more fair?
Or would you get rid of government completely so, you're a Libertarian / Anarchist? No courts, military, law enforcement, regulatory oversight, food & drug supply safety, roads and bridges, harbors and rail, air traffic control, environmental safety, space exploration, bank regulation, investment regulation, etc. etc. etc.
Yay, no income tax. Everyone do whatever you want to anyone you want while the infrastructure crumbles and the Wall Street sharks pick your bones clean. Open a meth lab in a daycare center. Try your hand at sex trafficking. Get screwed by a building contractor and your family dies in a plane crash? Well at least you don't pay taxes.
@Kingofkings1992 You ask a question, and get responses, and them make your insulting comment about the responses you get?
"People are so deluded it's sickening" What the fuck?
What a jerk you are!
If you fail to pay income tax to Federal, state or Municipalities, you usually wind up in deep shit with those collection arms... regardless of how you feel about "No taxation without representation" Until someone comes up with a system to fund everything the public wants in terms of services etc... it looks like we are stuck with taxes, no matter how we feel.
What question was I asking? The point of the post was to make a statement. Better to be a jerk than stupid
Nobody likes taxes. That said, if we're going to have a government, it's got to be paid for, and the money isn't going to fall from the sky. Now we can and do debate what our government should pay for and how much, and those are legitimate discussions, but one way or another we're going to pay for it. Some people believe we shouldn't have a government. These people seem to think no government means they can do whatever they want, it doesn't. What it means the biggest, meanest, toughest guy gets to do whatever HE wants and you get to do whatever HE says until you die young. Tax isn't theft, it's rent on society. Who pays how much and what criteria are used to set the rate and again how much and for what purposes are all up for debate, but trust me, until we live in a Mad Max movie, we're going to have taxes of some kind.
How do you plan on funding a government, because Property Taxes are even more oppressive than income taxes. Without income taxes and sales taxes, there would be no police and no FBI/CIA to protect us from terrorists and gangs. Not that they do a very good job as things stand, because corrupt judges and lawyers get the criminals off scott free anyway.
Anyway, try paying 10% property tax if there was no income tax, and you'd be begging for income tax to come back. With property taxes, you can never afford to retire.
No, that is stupid. Income tax is a progressive form of taxation rather than a regressive. In other words, its a form of taxation which favors the poor and middle class because it makes the rich pay a far higher percentage of the total tax.
If you are going to do taxation at all then this is one of the good ones to keep around.
Oh, grow up. "It’s nuts that some people actually perceive the government taking a quarter of their income from them without their consent a better way of life."
In modern day society it is required that you have a government that can provide a certain standard level of features. Roads, military, police, etc.. These also does not come for free. Somewhere, someone has to pay for it.
Income tax is again a progressive type of tax. That means that the rich pay a higher percentage of the total tax. If you want to pay as little as possible in tax and thereby keep as much money as possible for yourself then this is one of the better forms of taxation unless you are in the top 1%.
It is extremely telling that you got an aversion against income tax because it taxes the money you earn as opposed to obscuring your taxes in other parts of your life when those actually cost you more.
In other words, what I am saying is that you are working on emotions rather than facts and being very petulant about it.
Oh yes. You won’t get food stamps and you’ll actually have to work for once. Oh the horror.
Right. You think a fetus is part of a woman’s body, but I’m the retard. You lunatics are grade A comedy material
Actually you are right, I have not been harsh enough on you yet. Saying that you are against the very concept of taxation is not being fair to how stupid your actual position on the subject is.
After all, you are against a tax that lets you pay less in favor of other forms of taxations that you currently pay which are regressive and therefore would require you to pay more. You are truly the apex of intellects. Great gambit Sir.
“Blah blah blah” you done yet? I still don’t take anything you say remotely seriously
It does not matter if I agree or not. You asked a question without offering any suggestions on how the government is going to pay for the necessary things, never mind the bullshit things. How does the government pay for the military and other essential things to stay afloat as a nation? Offer some sort of plan as to how the government is going to get the money to pay people for the work they do, and I am talking about those people who do work, not the people who use the money as a slush fund to become millionaires. I am sure there are millions of people waiting to hear from you how this can be done. I withhold my opinion until a plan is offered to fund the country amicably.
Sure go back and live in a cave like people did thousands of years ago.
You can always argue about amount of taxes and how they should be used, but saying there should be no income tax is incredibly stupid and seeing 60%+ say yes is just mind-blowing.
Large parts of our modern civilization are built on top of it and you would not be able to afford many of the basic quality of life things you have today.
Sure, 25% of my income being taken away from me is the mark of a “ civilized society.” People actually believe this garbage? WOW
And replaced with what?
I'd certainly support the introduction of a wealth tax, which would allow for a reduction in income tax.
I'd also support different rates of taxation, depending on the source of the income - if you're an investor, making money from property rentals, you should be paying substantially more tax than someone who actually earned the same income, working as a doctor or nurse, for example.
Please explain why contributing part of your income for safety services and helping out those in need is sickening. And, how do you expect roads, parks, science, schools to be funded?
If you say sales tax, those with more money don't care about sales tax, but it hurts those with comparably tiny amounts of funding.
If you ever need an emergency or assistance service, I hope you appreciate it, as you helped it be there for you.
When we look at it closely: your net income is the cash that you expect to use in return of your (useful, or not) attendance time on some job. If now an additional sum is stolen by a government, then actually your employer has to come up with it.
You are born free and the government doesn't own you or any part of the fruits of your labor. What you make is none of theirs or anyone else's business.
Agree. Apparently some people think that we are cavemen. Unbelievable that holding on to more of your earnings sounds like a worse way of life to some people.
There was no permanent income tax until 1913 when the ”Progressive" communist Democrat President Woodrow Wilson signed the 16th Amendment into law.
Before that taxes came from tariffs.
We need a new constitutional amendment saying that the government should not be able to spend one penny more than it takes in from tariffs. And that should be the only source of revenue that they have.
The first priority is to fund the military. And no one gets a dime until that is fully funded.
The income tax is a progressive tool of a tyrannical government that spies on its people, creates an unintelligible tax system that no one can follow so that they can persecute you anytime they want because no one can get it right.
It needs to be ended. And it's the most progressive tax system in the world. No one should have to pay a higher percentage of their income and taxes than anyone else.
The whole system is designed so that the government can control the people instead of the other way around as the Constitution was intended to be.
Think of this. The government provides a basket of services just like McDonald's.
When you're standing online at McDonald's to buy a hamburger do they ask you how much you make first and charge you more if you make more?
No. Everyone pays the same. And it should be the same with taxes. You're getting the same services no matter how much you earn so you should be paying the exact same amount as everyone else.
And if you are unable to pay you should be required to perform some service to relieve the government of some of the expenses such as volunteer work to satisfy the requirement.
If we are going to have a government at all this is the minimal amount needed to make the system Fair.
Half of Americans don't pay any income tax at all. That is an outrageous assault on the other half.
I've wondered about abolishing the corporate / business tax and raising personal income taxes by 5% or so. Companies can pass on their tax burden via prices, but an individual can't. S/he owes what is owed.
If people don't make enough to actually pay net income tax, then I reckon that an annual civic service requirement would be a fair tradeoff to ensure that everybody contributes. The Inca Empire did this in lieu of monetary tax.
What are you proposing? Everything tax wise is based on what you purchase? You pay taxes when you buy stuff? So a person who buys a lot pays a lot of tax but a person who is frugal and spends little doesn't pay much tax?
Taxation is theft? Fucking dumbest thing I ever heard of. Using that same logic you're use of ANY of the important appurtenances of civilization is also theft. Just dumb.
no surprise that a nut job like you doesn’t get it! Here, take my money which I never consented to. Fucking baby back bitch
Using “you’re” when you should be saying YOUR. The fact that you’re a teacher is pretty terrifying
V2T..
No, you didn’t. Just making excuses. You one time used the wrong word entirely, and called it a “misspelling.” 😂
Income tax and property tax. I bought it, I own it, it's mine, I shouldn't have to pay for the privilege of ownership over and fucking over.
What replaces it? You can't take away that funding from government without a plan to replace it. Government only has funds received from taxation. So you either cut what government does or fund it another way
If you earn a boatload of money, you should probably a small portion away. It's called eating the rich.
But for the working class and lower, we should be definitely getting a hike in salary instead
Even without any tax at all, your employer still owns most of your labor.
I disagree. Employment is an “at will”basis, which means that I or the employer can choose to end it at any time we want for any reason we see fit.
Not really. You can choose to look for an alternative but not working at all is generally not an option or at least not a profitable one. Therefore you have to give your labor to an employer or you get selfemployed which is kinda hard to do without a solid time or money investment.
Yes, really.
I’m not scared of prison lol
As well as Property Tax and inheritance tax. We were a nation that the government got its money from terrifs. Now we are approaching 40% tax on average plus state income tax and property tax.
I think anyone making under $50K a year should not have to pay any. They probably pay more than the rich.
They "probably" pay more than the rich. Do you have any facts to support that assertion?
@OlderAndWiser Just that the rich have tons of tax write-offs, expense accounts, a basket full of lawyers, accountants, and off-shore accounts to funnel money too. At the end of the year, they have less money than a person making $50,000.
Try again Here are the facts:
In 2022, taxpayers filed 153.8 million tax returns, reported earning nearly $14.8 trillion in adjusted gross income (AGI), and paid $2.1 trillion in individual income taxes.
The average income tax rate in 2022 was 14.5 percent. The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 23.1 percent average rate, six times higher than the 3.7 percent average rate paid by the bottom half of taxpayers.
The top 1 percent’s income share fell from 26.3 percent in 2021 to 22.4 percent in 2022, and its share of federal income taxes paid fell from 45.8 percent to 40.4 percent.
The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all federal individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent.
taxfoundation.org/.../
That's the facts!
@OlderAndWiser Who was it that said "That's the fac Jack!"? I hereby stand corrected. 😔
There are some very wealthy people who avoid taxes, and their situations tend to get publicized while the rest of the facts are never mentioned, so it is easy for people to have a wrong impression on this issue.
Bill Murray in "Stripes"
How did you know that? 🤔
I saw the movie, and I have a good memory for useless trivia!
@OlderAndWiser Is your memory as big as the Library of Congress? 😅
I think not!
@OlderAndWiser I meant with the knowledge it contains, not that you got a big head. 😯
They'd just replace it with increased taxes elsewhere, the government will always get it's pound of flesh.
Disagree when people earn more than 99 % of world population they should get taxed on their income.
You're thinking about what you are asked to pay. You are ignoring why that money is gathered and where it ends up. When there is a non criminal administration.
It doesn't matter if you pay the tax on your income or when you're paying for shit. At the end of the day, the government is gonna get it's cut, wether you like it or not.
If "no one else owns a portion of (your) labor", how do you expect to acquire essentials of life , ie, food, housing, transportation, medical care, etc?
Go to a country where this already exists then.
In my country never but in your country I think it would be a great idea :)
Disagree. I think we need to fix our tax system and ensure that our money benefits us and not the filthy fucking rich only
I think we can all agree on this one. Lol!
Apparently not everyone. a good portion of society is still insane, unfortunately. They think a better way of life is “living like a caveman.”
Lol!! Each to their own!!
Thank you for the MHO!
Oops! I apologise for the last comment. Ignore that one. I got confused.
According to the Constitution, taxes are SUPPOSED to be paid VOLUNTARILY!!
Sure. In my state Washington politicians are trying to get rid of property tax. This also would be nice.
Huh, you want government services but you don't want to pay for them. Typical American.
I would get taxed regardless if I use them or not. so that’s a stupid comment
How do you use the national defense? Or how is it that you can NOT use the national defense? How do you not benefit from the government assuring the quality pf prescription medications and the purity of our foods?
It like (or might just be) slavery. For the percentage of your paycheck that got taken, you involuntarily worked for free.
Can you pay for roads an hospitals yourself?
No, income tax should not be abolished.
100% agree. Not like government spends the money on anything worthwhile anyway
And how will public services be paid for in your view?
Not only that, but now with tariffs; we will also eradicate the FED reserve, the IRS. Gold/precious metals will destroy the federal reserve.
Eh, I actually like having a infrastructure.
Government should be abolished
Agree
What do you propose to replace it?
Nope. How would programs be funded?
Not my problem. if people actually got paid their gross pay, maybe they won’t need food stamps? ever think about that?
Typical dumb, heartless Yankee righty. No wonder America is imploding before the world's eyes.(How would roads, police, fire departments, EMS, infrastructure and schools be funded, boyo?)
Not a righty, try again
Yes, I believe so.
Trump has talked about it.
I agree.
Absolutely
True, it is horrible
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