How do you feel about a US military response to criminal cartels?

[Chazmatazz269]

https://youtu.be/3eTPaDJpfN8?si=XxAXIJspoTsw4Vpj

www.usatoday.com/.../

I’m totally in favor.

[WindAtMyBack]

We are obviously talking about Mexico here. The US needs permission from Mexico to go into Mexico. If they have that permission, I'm all for it. We know who the cartels are. There will be some "collateral damage" (I HATE that term). But we should only do it with permission and cooperation from the Mexican government.

Mexico is a neighbor. Neighbors should be friendly, not adversaries. I'm sure the Mexican government doesn't like the cartels any more than we do. And the Mexican people sure as hell don't like them. The Mexican people are such nice friendly people and they are getting a bum rap.

Find a way to take out these worthless piece of shit cartels. It's what everyone wants except the cartels themselves.

Get permission. Send in some heavy firepower and send the cartels to oblivion. I'm talking about extrajudicial here. Fuck the courts and due process. Wipe the mother fuckers out. It's what everyone wants, so just do it already.

[Dargil]

But how do you REALLY feel?

[msc545]

What the hell is it with you people and your constant violence?

[Dargil]

@msc545 Violence, pussy and money make the work turn.

[msc545]

@Dargil Pussy and money, sure. Violence, I will pass.

[Dargil]

world

[WindAtMyBack]

@msc545

The goal is to STOP the violence. Maybe you think it can be stopped by saying pretty please.

[msc545]

Sure. We all know that more violence stops violence. Exactly how stupid are you?

[Dargil]

@msc545 Question for you. How do you stop radical Islamists from being violent? One way that worked was during the colonial period when Europe ruled them with an iron hand.

[WindAtMyBack]

@msc545

"We all know that more violence stops violence."

In many cases, yes it does stop violence. In this case it sure as hell would.

They don't always give you a choice. Just because you want the world to be rainbows and unicorns doesn't mean it is. We aren't dealing with a fantasy world. We are dealing with the world as it is, and that world is not always a pretty place.

[msc545]

Nope. 9-11 was the demonstration that revenge always occurs - something you either cannot understand apparently, or simply do not wish to believe.

[Dargil]

The intended influx of illegal trespassers from Mexico and trafficking of illegal substances resulting in the deaths of American citizens shall be interpreted as acts of war.

Pursuant to that, the USA shall send a Marine Expeditionary force into to Mexico annihilate all criminal cartels. Said Expeditionary force shall see to it that all residential and manufacturing properties are destroyed.

Only avoid collateral damage to families , local military, law enforcement, and neighbors when doing so does not interfere with the mission objectives. The exit strategy shall be when zero illegal entries of persons and substances has been achieved.
President Claudia Sheinbaum Pardo shall be advised that she shall be subject to arrest and and prosecution for war crimes where military objectives have been interfered with by government authorities.

[FreyaRed]

Difficult to estimate if this multiple killing was conform with international laws.
If they fired a missile on a fleeing boat that wasn't a threat in international waters it would clearly a crime.

[Dargil]

Somewhere, leftists have dreamed up the notion that anyone can tell is what to do.

"Conform"? The United States is not subject to international law. The United States is not subject to the International Criminal Court. Wartime acts are only subject to (sort of) The Geneva Convention. The only exceptions are treaties a President has endorsed.

There is no governing authority superior to the President Of The United States except G0d.
Scary? Your safe space is waiting outside the USA.

[FreyaRed]

Bragging with that is stupider than you might think.

[Dargil]

Defend that in any imaginable way other than empty word salad.

[FreyaRed]

Defend? what?

[Dargil]

I am constrained from insulting anyone. So I won't call you an ignorant fool.

[purplepoppy]

If America is hitting them once they enter American waters then good. But if America is striking them on foreign soil then surely that's an act of war.

[Chazmatazz269]

That’s an interesting point i hadn’t considered. I’m not sure what is considered “American waters” off of the mainland. The drone video shows them being followed for a fair bit before the strike. Also, Drumpf successfully classified TDA as a terrorist organization. As soon as they decided to ignore warnings to stay out of and away from the US, the conflict began.

[msc545]

What you saw was a very cheap thriller film produced by some propaganda unit of the US government. It depicts things that probably never happened in reality or if they did. They happened many many years ago and had nothing to do with narcotics.

[Miristheiss]

So, we attack terrorists in Yemen, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq and I'm sure some other places. We aren't at "war" with any of them. It is a gray area but I don't expect Mexico to declare war and then invade us.

After that family of women and children was assassinated on the highway returning to the USA after visiting some family... killing U. S. citizens, I think I am ready to destroy them. Whether Mexico is on board or not.

[purplepoppy]

So why can America bomb other countries and it's not an act of war but other countries can't. If my country bombs the USA because few citizens import drugs to us is it acceptable? I think not.

[Miristheiss]

Because they are an actual threat to our country. Our military exists to protect us from foreign threats.
By the way, the boat was in international waters.

[msc545]

@Miristheiss Attacking a ship in international waters that poses no threat is absolutely an act of war.

[Miristheiss]

@msc545
Well, we are going to attack more.
Get used to it.

[msc545]

National waters (territorial sea) extend up to 12 nautical miles from the baseline of the coast, while the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ), where a nation has rights to explore and exploit natural resources, extends up to 200 nautical miles. Beyond these zones are international waters (or high seas), where freedom of navigation and overflight is generally guaranteed for all nations, though seabed rights can be extended for the continental shelf.

[msc545]

@Miristheiss We will also provoke a tremendous amount of bad will and ultimately retaliation. The 9-11 attacks were retaliation for our policies in the Middle East. Were they worth it?

[purplepoppy]

Most legal experts agree Trump broke both international and maritime law in ordering the attack. In short Trump should be charged with murder.

[Miristheiss]

Drug Cartels have been declared TERRORISTS. The USA has gone after them wherever they have deemed necessary.

Will the cartels declare war? I suppose they could. Maritime drug gangs off of Venezuela is small potatoes. We'll see what happens if and when we start taking out cartels in Mexico.

You lefties that are crying over drug cartels and blathering about how terrible this is... I bet you are the same ilk whining that it is terrible that the USA is closing off the flow of MILLIONS of uninvited 3rd world immigrants and demanding dudes get to be on the girls sports teams and be allowed into their showers and lockers.

These are you hills to die on. Being forever flooded with illegal immigrants, drug cartels and dudes in girls spaces.

Great.

[purplepoppy]

Pretty much every legal expert on the planet disagrees with you.

[Miristheiss]

Legal? Legal? what are you talking about? Killing a terrorist is a war act. Laws kind of go out the window.
The USA just bombed Iran. Did some lawyer and judge get permission for that? We just bombed Yemen extensively a few months back. Did we get permission? Obama was blowing up people with drones in Iraq and in Syria all the time. Israel just blew up a bunch of Hezbollah members with pagers.

Covert wars and national defense... you act like there is some clear law. If the USA military deems you a national security threat and they want to take you out... what law is stopping that?

LOL "ILLEGAL"

[purplepoppy]

Those are acts against countries who can defend themselves. This breaks article 2 of the UN charter and stretches the definition of terrorism beyond belief. Even under maritime law your only allowed to disable a boat not blow it up. Trump by all legal definitions is a murderer

[msc545]

With the guy that you're arguing with is saying and what way I think we've known all along is that the laws simply don't matter to these people. They're going to do whatever they want because actually there's nobody that's willing to try to stop them. They are outlaws in every sense of the word.

[purplepoppy]

If Trump can just label people terrorists or claim the USA is at war with any group he chooses, what's stopping him bombing your house or ordering troops to open fire on immigrants or protesters?

[msc545]

Unfortunately at this point there is absolutely nothing stopping him at all. You have just realized the magnitude of the problem. It is a huge problem that we have no solution for.

[msc545]

Mods that can utter will not be enforced are not really laws at all. They are more like wishes that never really come true.

[msc545]

Okay I hate autocorrect that should be laws that cannot or will not be reinforced not really laws at all but more like wishes.

[Dargil]

Honey babe. What Mexico has done are acts of war. Try enforcing that.

[Dargil]

They have been committing acts of war.

[msc545]

@Miristheiss, you somehow believe that if you call someone a name and you type it in all caps, that justifies killing that person, and it is legal.

Payback is a bitch.

[Dargil]

Stick to sex. Thinking is over your head.

[msc545]

@Dargil They are not, except by your self-serving definition. Here, since you insist on blurring crimes by individuals and acts of war:

The difference between an act of war and a simple crime mainly comes down to scale, intent, and who is involved. Let me break it down:

1. Who Commits It

Crime: Usually committed by individuals or small groups (e. g., theft, assault, fraud).

Act of War: Conducted by a state or organized armed group against another state or people.

2. Target and Purpose

Crime: Aimed at private persons or property, often for personal gain (money, revenge, etc.).

Act of War: Aimed at a nation’s sovereignty, security, or population, with the goal of weakening, controlling, or defeating it.

3. Scale of Harm

Crime: Localized harm—affects a small number of people, businesses, or institutions.

Act of War: Large-scale destruction—military strikes, invasions, cyberwarfare, or blockades affecting entire populations or governments.

4. Legal Framework

Crime: Dealt with under domestic criminal law (police, courts, prisons).

Act of War: Governed by international law (laws of armed conflict, treaties, conventions). Responses may include military retaliation, sanctions, or international tribunals, not just police arrests.

5. Examples

Crime: Bank robbery, homicide, hacking into someone’s private account.

Act of War: Bombing another country’s military base, invading territory, large-scale state-sponsored cyberattacks.

👉 Key distinction:
A crime is a violation of law by individuals, whereas an act of war is an aggressive action by one state (or organized group) against another, threatening sovereignty or security.

[RavVid]

The US launched war on Barbary pirates twice - 1801 & 1815. Plus Algiers for pirating too.

Not exactly the same thing but kinda. Military action was taken against criminal enterprises.

The way I originally heard it was that the US declared war against the pirates but it seems they just shelled them.

[panera]

How long until Democrats demand to see a picture of the drone pilot that made the strike? Maybe they will also want to know where he lives and where his kids go to school.

[Chazmatazz269]

I’m not certain the strike came from a drone. The US has Navy ships off the coast of Venezuela. The strike could have come from those ships as well.

[panera]

@chaz

I said it was a drone because they showed aerial view long before the strike.

[seeyounexttuesday]

I mean, it’s got to be horrible to be living in Mexico under cartel rule and your own government doesn’t do anything to fix it.

[Chazmatazz269]

Indeed. For that reason, i feel bad for the people who come here to escape that certain hellscape. Asylum seekers should definitely be given priority for immigration, but they still need to go by the book. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[msc545]

I used to live in Mexico City. You people who don't know a damn thing about Mexico or its people or what it's like to live there are basically just talking garbage.

[seeyounexttuesday]

@msc545 That statement is fucking hilarious. The equivalent of "well it rained in my town so there isn't any drought going on in the US".

[msc545]

It is not particularly representative, I grant you that. However, not as bad as your recent, totally unsupported statement that "the Covid-19 vaccine causes long Covid," which betrayed your abysmal ignorance.

I am still laughing my ass off about that one, you pathetic moron.

[seeyounexttuesday]

@msc545 hey sorry you got duped fucktard. But let's see your big brain in action.

What % of the people with long-covid are vaccinated?
What % of the people with long covid are suffering from psychosomatic symptoms?

Of course we'll never know because you morons insist the covid shots are "safe and effecitve" and every person with a vaccine injury from them is lying.

[msc545]

For god sake go back to school and take a class in basic research methods and statistics. Just because a person has two co-existing conditions does not mean that one condition caused the other.

[seeyounexttuesday]

@msc545 lol. You can’t even be consistent remember you dopes screeching the shots kept you from getting severely sick? What happened to that?

[Dennisjf12]

I never saw any of this on TV and anyone could have blown up that boat, and anyone could've dressed up in those guys were and Trump lies all the time and this is so fack. Dennis

[SeekerOfTruth007]

I'm in favor. We should have done something like that decades ago.

[Jackblue]

The health and economic damage the cartels cause is killing millions of Americans. It is genocide.

[msc545]

Oh yeah, I've been noticing all those millions of Americans dying from the actions of the cartel all over the place. Do you honestly expect that anybody is going to believe this bullshit?

[Jackblue]

@msc545 www.whitehouse.gov/.../ fentanyl costs us nearly 10% of or GDP, that equals lives far beyond overdoses

[msc545]

You actually believe things that the current administration tells us?

[msc545]

A great way to further alienate the Mexican government.

[panera]

Do you really think the Mexican government likes being held hostage by druglords?

[Chazmatazz269]

The Mexican government chose alienation by not controlling the cartels themselves. These are the consequences of their choices.

They are complicit at the minimum. It’s most likely that they are in league with cartel leaders.

[seeyounexttuesday]

@panera well yeah, they do. The government is corrupt to its core. For the average Mexican - they are the ones suffering. Which this chick is completely happy with.

[panera]

I was thinking more about Mexican citizens and not so much government. I think the Mexican citizens are thrilled that Trump‘s gonna come and clean up.

[Chazmatazz269]

It’s also worth noting that this engagement is currently with Venezuela, not Mexico.

[msc545]

Neither the Mexican government nor the Venezuelan government are being held hostage as you put it by drug cartels. This is a fantasy dreamed up by Trump to justify his authoritarian behavior. I noticed today that his latest authoritarian routine is to claim that he blew up a boat that contained a lot of narcotics that was on its way to the US. I would like to know exactly how the US knew that the boat contained quote a lot of narcotics" since they weren't aborted and apparently didn't go aboard it. I also question whether or not they actually blew up anything or this is more of a fantasy of trumps yet again that never happened. He loves to create these quasi- heroic scenarios in which he plays major roles in order to appeal to his unwashed uneducated base of tough guy men who really aren't tough guys at all. Just want wannabes.

[Chazmatazz269]

You are deluded. Even during the Biden administration we received frequent state and federal warnings about visiting Mexico for any reason due to escalating threats from cartels and other criminals in Mexico. There periods during which US citizens attempting to enter Mexico were turned away at the border for risks to lives and livelihoods. I don’t know as much about Venezuela, but it being the home of Tren de Aragua, a transnational criminal organization as recognized by multiple countries, not just the US. And their president’s malicious response to Drumpf requesting that they keep their criminals in their own country or at least take them back when we catch them was pretty well publicized.
Your TDS has gotten the best of you, mate. Seek professional help.

[msc545]

@panera Nobody is "thrilled" about anything that asshole says or does.

[seeyounexttuesday]

Weird how he’s got no problem with Ukraine getting us dollars to fight against tyranny but upset about Mexicans getting us help to fight tyranny. Maybe it’s because they are brown people.

[panera]

They hate Black people even more than the brown people. I remember when Bill Clinton said that Obama shouldn’t be running for the presidency, at best he should be serving us white folks coffee.
Then Joe Biden chimed in and said that rock was shockingly clean articulate for a black guy.

[noohair]

Nothing else was working.

[DonaldDarko]

Based and red pilled.

[slatyb]

In the US? Unconstitutional

[exitseven]

Bullseye,

[SunnyCaliGirl]

I hope they beat their asses!