Do you think women have been traditionally treated as second class citizens because of their reproductive systems?

[Anonymous]

Yes

No

[MrOracle]

I reject the premise that women were second class citizens, because that's a lie, and it's important to correct that lie from the start.

It's true that women did not have all of the privileges that men had, but they also did not have the responsibilities of men either. Instead, women had a DIFFERENT set of privileges (including many that men did not have) and different responsibilities. Yes, these differences were a reflection of physical gender differences as well as different reproductive roles.

Today, many people want to compare the privileges of women against those of the ruling class men - the few who lived comfortable lives - but that's a very disingenuous comparison. The ruling class was well under 1% of men. Most men throughout history did absolutely back-breaking and life-shortening manual labor, because that was the only option. Men were farmers, miners, construction workers, factory workers, ship-builders, sailors, or in the military. A much smaller number were doctors or merchants, and many merchants had to face the danger of traveling dangerous roads to resupply.

Women were spared from this crippling work and danger, and while they certainly worked too, they fed their animals, collected eggs, and were rarely very far away from the safety of their homes.

To call that being "second class" is to completely ignore women's privilege and focus only on how they differed from men's privilege - ignoring completely the price men paid to earn those privileges that women were protected from.

The only women in the past, prior to the Industrial Revolution, who were complaining about their lack of privilege were the children of elite ruling class men; women who were born in privilege to begin with and weren't satisfied with what they had.

The Industrial Revolution resulted in the first somewhat widespread availability of jobs outside the home that weren't being a teacher, a nanny/servant, a nun, or a whore - the first factory jobs that could employ female workers. They certainly weren't easy or glamorous jobs, but they existed. But most women didn't work those jobs for very long before they decided that being married and "a second class citizen" was a much better deal.

The Feminist-led push for careers for women didn't exist in any significant way until after WWII, when air-conditioned office buildings became the standard, and there were a significant number of jobs without heavy physical labor or danger. For millennia prior to that, the world had simply not been tamed enough to provide that kind of security and comfort for normal people (just the ruling elites).

[melssvdv]

"Most men throughout history did absolutely back-breaking and life-shortening manual labor, because that was the only option. "

Not because it was the only option. Rather it is because men are stronger. It just makes sense throughout evolution for the stronger (men) to perform better feats.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

It's actually vice versa. The necessity for men to actually find another value such as doing the hard labor and burdening themselves. More women and fewer men can repopulate faster than vice versa because they cannot give birth making them the less valuable gender by default because a single man can impregate hundreds of women while a single women cannot get pregnant hundreds of times with hundreds of men. Since men's only option is to work to be valuable, it made them evolve to be physically stronger. However, they rust very quick when inactive.

[melssvdv]

@Aiko_E_Lara
"cannot give birth making them the less valuable gender by default"
Popping a child out of our vagina does not make us automatically more valuable. After all, it takes a man and a woman to make a child. So that 'childbirth' falls out of the window. It will happen automatically anyway considering both man and woman is fertile.

"single man can impregate hundreds of women"
You are asking for a genetic disease to take over and wipe out humanity a bit. And the children and the wife would have a bad life and time. Considering every child needs a father figure.

So your claim does not make sense.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Actually it can. To top it off, only women can nurture children naturally. Men cannot lactate.

Talking about how men can impregate hundreds of women at a time just really means that Civilization can repopulate itself faster if there are fewer men compared to women that's why they have to be safeguarded.

If there are more men and fewer women, the woman can only give birth for a few times in her life. Meaning if there are fewer women and more men, birthrate remains low.

That is exactly why women are valued for their reproductive system. Nobody ever said that it doesn't take a man and a woman to make a child. The difference is how they both contribute.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Genetic disorders can happen on incest reproduction. However, that risk doesn't outweigh the risk of having more men than women. Back then, people's lifespan was only like 30 to 50. Even if someone had a genetic disorder because of incest, they were still contribute in society for the society to progress. Better than having so few to none at all.

To make this even simpler for you

Imagine 2 building with 500 rooms. Each rooms need to be filled with at least one person in it.

The building has 100 men and 10 women.

The other building has 100 women and 10 men.

The building with more women, All of them pregnant at the same time can give birth at the same time with a total of 100 babies.

The building with more men will only have the 10 women give birth at the same time having only 10 babies in total. Even if men take turns an impregating those 10 women's, the result is the same or risking the women to die.

The building with more women gets to fill up the building faster then the building with more men.

So that is why men have to risk and die and reserve women because of that value.

[melssvdv]

@Aiko_E_Lara Dude... it takes two to make a baby. And men to raise a civilization.

[melssvdv]

@Aiko_E_Lara I do not know where you got that nonsense from. Just pushing a baby out of vagina is just that. You suddenly are trying to romanticize and fantasizing things. Are you Redpill? They are those guys trying to twist words to "keep women down".

[Aiko_E_Lara]

I never said it didn't. I'm talking about how both contributes uniquely and yet you're only seeing men's value

[melssvdv]

@Aiko_E_Lara Dude... God made men objectively more valuable than women. You are trying to come up with any kind of excuse and twisting words. No matter of "To top it off, only women can nurture children naturally. Men cannot lactate. ", men in general contribute more. It all stems to biology. Stop thinking "we are different, but we are equal" like Redpills do.

[melssvdv]

@Aiko_E_Lara Of course women are more valuable. But objectively men are bit above. And you are out of your mind if you think reproduction is the only thing in the world. It is not even 1/10000 of time you invest in.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Saying "objectivly" doesn't even favor your argument when many different societies have different view about men and women. And when did i even said that women's only role is reproduction? They also work and do other things but they still have that reproduction ability exclusive to women that men don't have other than just impregating her. You just like accusing anyone of red pills for proving subjectivity based on different societies views.

[melssvdv]

@Aiko_E_Lara "many different societies have different view about men and women"

They are demonizing men. And glorifying women. And that is bad. Do not consider what society view men as truth. The whole point what those Jews want is to turn the world upside down. That is what they want to do. Dehumanization. Making children>parents and women>men. And animals>humans.

[Asker]

@melssvdv you said you have children right? Who are your children closer to?

[Aiko_E_Lara]

"And that is bad" That's like complaining reality itself is just bad despite how I've already explained women's default value. If the world is the problem, then maybe the problem is you.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

The animals > humans doesn't really work for you. We eat animals. We cage them and don't give them human rights for serving no real purpose in society but as food or pests. Women are capable of working and paying taxes, animals don't. It's like you're saying women = animals and men = humans which is why you think men > women. You're ironically dehumanizing women.

[HighValue]

It would have been better for millions of women to get their limbs chopped off, get shot with arrows (or in more modern times have limbs blown off with explosives and shot with guns) and the men can stay home instead of having to learn a marketable skill and just clean the house and care for kids. I am sure millions of men throughout history would gladly have switched places with women.

It would be nice if we could switch in the future and let millions of women get killed, have their limbs blown off, face burnt, be horribly disfigured, etc. Also, the men should always be believed, even after proven to be lying, make false accusations against women, have women locked in prison, kids taken away, etc. and they have to pay alimony while the men get to sit around at home with a free living. That would be so nice.

Women don't have the right to complain until they go through ALL of that. So STFU to anyone that thinks women have been treated as second class. Women have been protected and coddled for centuries by almost all societies on Earth.

[melssvdv]

Damn. Respect for going against political correctness. Damn XD

[Anonymous]

Definitely. I mean look at the way some men treat women. How the government treat women too.
i personally don’t think a man can ever speak on the way a girl or woman has EVER been treated because they will never get to be treated the way we currently are or have been in the past.
Some men act like there some type of god all because they have a dick and sperm. When in reality all it takes is someone cutting it off for it to be gone, it’ll take longer for a woman’s reproductive organs to be taken away with a knife than a man’s.
also look at the men in the comments, one even stating that a women’s “natural” role is to reproduce and care for children, so we treated as less than because apparently that’s all a woman is supposed to “do”. But men should have all the freedom without caring for its offspring?
which is exactly why I won’t bring a child into this world, where men still believe all women are here for is so reproduce and care for children as if we are nothing but for those reason.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Newsflash, what you're talking about is a human problem not to women's problem. Getting treated harshly in the workplace has very little to do with you being a woman but that is what a lot of women just like to conclude. Because if we really truly are living in a patriarchal world, wouldn't men just support each other and leave women behind? Because you failed to see how many men who actually failed attempting to get their positions and those successful men don't benefit the average men in any meaningful way. And those men who became successful had to undergo any harsh treatments. They don't become successful overnight and just because they are men. Many guys end up becoming broke attempting to take such risks also because they don't have the same safety net and emotional support women have. You women are not pressured to climb up the ladder. You still have the choice to do it. I mean there are successful women out there so don't give me any excuse.

[melssvdv]

You are indulging too much in mainstream feminist narrative. You need to go inside. No average man would treat an average woman badly. Please for the sake of God touch grass. Feminism is poisoning us.

[melssvdv]

outside* not inside.

[melssvdv]

"Some men act like there some type of god all because they have a dick and sperm."

Well, their sperm creates life...

[Opinion Owner]

@melssvdv 🥱 and an abortion gets rid of it.. now go kick rocks

[Opinion Owner]

@melssvdv I need to go inside? I mean.. I was outside but yeah sure I’ll go inside. Mainstream? I don’t even have social media to even be mainstream lol.

[Opinion Owner]

@Aiko_E_Lara well we actually are pressured. And also many of us don’t have emotional support or a safety net. We’re pressured to be things some of us don’t want to be from a young age, at least boys don’t get that pushed onto them until around high school.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

If not really is the case then how come support shelter for women get funded? There had always been project for male homeless shelter but it always gets shut down because of the lack of public funding. Experiments are always showing how if women get emotional in public, there are always many people who support them in contrast to men doing the same. Even double standard when it comes to harassment like women harassing men versus men harassing women. That definitely shows how society is naturally hardwired to give women safety net proving the sympathy gap is real even if you're talking about as kids. You don't realize the natural male behavior had always been demonized which is why in schools they teach ways that actually favors women's minds. Like study showing that boy prefer reading comic books and women prefers reading fairy tales. Boys like playing action figures while women like playing dolls. However the comic books and action figures are always seen as destructive and girls liking what they want don't get the same stigma. Basically why in reading classes fir kids, it's mostly about fairy tales. So you still think guys are not suppressed? Men's suicide rate even as kids still surpass women's.

[Opinion Owner]

@Aiko_E_Lara honestly I don’t even have the time to read all that. Homeless women get raped in shelters that they have to share with men and they get raped on the street.
In the past everything was made a certain way to CATER to boys/men. Same way that parents most don’t even teach a boy how to take care of himself or cook, because he’s a “man” aka a lost cause at that point. I mean look at all the dudes that don’t even know how to cook for themselves…
Fairy tales…. Well considering that majority of girls are shown those things is because basically if your born a girl, your life is going to be you watching over your shoulder and being careful 24/7. Your born the gender that gets sexualized from a very young age, a gender that gets raped regardless if your the age of a toddler to when your literally in the morgue. Men on the other hand don’t really have to even worry about that, yeah it happens to some dudes. But at least you lot don’t have to be wary of it all the time.

[Opinion Owner]

@Aiko_E_Lara Now suicide rates… I could care less honestly. You aren’t strong minded, everyone goes through a dark period. If you can’t pull yourself out of it, then that’s on you. If you can’t reach out to someone or a therapist, that’s on you. I don’t feel sympathy for those, I myself had a dark period. I didn’t have anyone to call, what did I do? Take the time to figure out what I needed to do, it’s hard but if you’re willing to give up then that’s on you. And another reason I don’t feel sympathy is cause men aren’t my gender and they surely don’t support me, they never have. So I have no reason to feel for them at all. So I really don’t give a shit. Your catered to from birth, in school, in college, at home if you get married, your sexual “needs” that everyone says is a need but it’s just a desire which you lot can’t handle. y'all weren’t even having sex as children and suddenly it’s a need because a woman wants to date you?
God I slowly have been building a hatred for men and there excuses of how it’s “oh but what about us” as if you aren’t the ones that cause literally everything
Now farewell, I won’t be answering further. Nothing in my life as a woman has ever favored me, I’ve never had a “support net” and a lot of other women haven’t either. So stop treating to act like we’ll all give a flying shit about you as boys or men because now the tables have turned

[Aiko_E_Lara]

You dont have time reading yet you have all the time yapping like you have no time understanding what you're saying. You dont realize guys also get accused of rape many times and they dont even have to me homeless. What more if they are homeless? The stigma doubles or even more than that. Like society not caring about their side of their stories even if they're the victims of abusive women. And even military veterans get homless and no one cares like how you just don't even care about the suicide rate. With your logic, no one should just care about women getting raped. Raped women are just weak minded. Oppose what i say and it and you'll just prove the double standards I'm talking about.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Also, your logic about not suicide is their own fault is because they dont seek therapy is thesame as it's a patient's fault for dying for not knowing theyve been sick the whole time. If you know what you're saying then you should even know the stigma about men talking about mental health even to therapists because talking about feelings had always been a taboo their and theyve been taught everything is their fault their entire life. How about if I say it's a woman's fault if they get raped? Don't like it? Then you stop assuming what men goes through.

[Opinion Owner]

@Aiko_E_Lara men’s feelings have been “taboo” because of men. Your fathers are the ones teaching you to suppress your feelings. You have the choice to pull yourself out of it, and express them. Same thing with some of men’s friends, they make fun of you for your feelings.
“Stop assuming what men goes through” firstly it’s “what men go through”. Two I fortunately grew up with all boys, so I do know what they go through. And how/why do I know? Because they tell me everything, they talk about what’s going on and their feelings.
I mean even my brothers say the suicide rate for men shouldn’t be a concern for me, they themselves don’t care for it either.
And let’s be honest, a majority dismisses women who actually have been raped. And when it’s brought to court the rapist is let off with a short time, UNLESS the rapist is of color.
“They’ve been taught everything is their fault their entire life” so have women. It’s not just a one gendered thing bud. A majority of you got to do whatever you wanted whenever you wanted as kids, and the girls were told to expect your behaviors of pulling their hair, pushing them to the ground because you were “playing”, the same as when you were allowed to be out late and go do whatever you wanted while the girls were given a set time to be back/weren’t allowed to go certain places. And why’s that? Because of men, as a woman you have to fear a man following you home, raping you, killing you.
So… I mean just like men’s feelings are dismissed so are women’s, you don’t have it worse than the next person. If you can’t thrive through the conditions that are around you, you will never get anywhere.
Plus this is getting boring now

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Yeah blaming father for how societies bring his hardwired. You're proving my point. https://youtu.be/dMwtASguRU0?si=Q3i1eOBgyP_15lt4 if you want to take a look at this social experiment, look at how many people care about this male kid versus how much cared about this female kid. https://youtu.be/KldFGgUTqKA?si=QK8R33JCnIWEdwZI It really is the father's fault why society is that way? Then you are just lucky admitting that it is just men who built society and why it has to be that way. But really your forgetting the nuance about how women just had a natural value such as their reproductive abilities making society safeguard women subconsciously. And that is also why women don't look up to men who shows emotions, even potentially calling them creepy because they're expecting men to do the work. https://youtu.be/OFpYj0E-yb4?si=5vZebTLPNYkgdB0u The social experiments also aligned with this phenomenon in schools showing the sympathy gap. And this is also related to the rape thing you are talking about like women getting dismissed when they're raped. That's because accusations also happens which guys getting false the accused even if they're innocent. Your argument "So are women" doesn't really work here. Because if that's all you have to say, I can basically apply what you've said to men as well. What do you have said is also what men face. Now what? Based on your logic, I'm already correct.

[melssvdv]

"and an abortion gets rid of it.. now go kick rocks "
And men not knocking us up gets rid of our purpose. And men wiping us off gets rid of our complaining. Now go kick rocks.

[Opinion Owner]

@melssvdv lmaoooo girl you talkin to me? If you are well I don't know go find something to do or go to you nearest bridge or I don't know maybe read a book. Where exactly were you in this conversation exactly? 🥱 gets rid of our complaining? Lmaooo “our” no you mean your. If imma complain about something it’s gonna be the fact that prices of everything have gone up, not fucking men lol.
Oh I love a little follower “now go kick rocks” don’t forget to thank mommy for giving you a phrase to say

[Opinion Owner]

@Aiko_E_Lara well for one, you aren’t. But you love replying to me soooo much. I mean geez we might as well get on a zoom call at this point since you’d like to continue going on this topic 😁 I mean I could write an essay on this for you and shoot it to you through google docs.
I mean back to the actual start of my first comment I said “where men still believe all women are here for is so reproduce and care for children as if we are nothing but for those reason.“ so where exactly do men get treated exactly like that? Like you’re limited down to your genitals? Men got to have everything before women could because they made laws so they could
Control women, such as credit cards, and etc. when was there a time that you were restricted from being able to have a bank account other than as someone that is underage?
But honestly I’m enjoying this just a bit, I mean you’re sending paragraphs with videos now too. This topic about how women are treated, seems to be something your so passionate about saying they aren’t treated worst or better.
But though if we do run it back to the past one thing I will agree both genders were equally treated horrible were when there were slaves. The men and women enslaved had it worse than anyone. I mean imagine being taken from your country then brought over here to be auctioned off to some random white family. Then you forced to pick cotton everyday almost all day, the women would get raped and impregnated. Then those little girls would be forced to work inside of the house. Both genders were whipped, even were eaten by the whites. The children were separated from there families and then auctioned off unless they escaped.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And if you think having to do everything like making law or system is actually an easy thing to do, It's not like men actually had a choice. So your point where men get limited to being just genitals doesn't work on men because our genitals are not as valuable. In fact our whole body is not valuable enough unless we do something about it which is why a lot of men have to do something to make them valuable or they just be disposable like many other men forgotten. So if you think that me sending you videos about double standards is irrelevant, the video is showing how women are treated compared to how men are treated. If you're talking about how women is treated and you dismiss my video as irrelevant then you're just cherry picking about realities. Your question about when men get limited from doing those? Many times and that is exactly why many men fall homeless and unsupported. The difference is that media always address women's issues that's why you keep hearing women's issues. Like the social experiment I am showing, many people ignore men's issues and that's a fact.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Speaking of having no choice in making the laws, You're acting like laws in general are just bad that you rather live in a lawless world. To be able to control hordes of people in a society, requires you to be tough and less emotional which many men actually failed to do. Your highlighting those successful men being able to do everything while you ignore what they have to go through in order to get that title. Believing that just because you are born men you can automatically make laws. Maybe in a fantasy world you're thinking of.

[melssvdv]

@Aiko_E_Lara "In fact our whole body is not valuable"

Uuhm, being stronger, faster, more intelligent, better in leadership, etc. is more valuable than the other that is lesser. Every job would hire a man rather a woman if it wasn't for political correctness and DEI programs and such.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Well it's nice of you to appreciate men, The only reason why they become stronger is because they have no other choice but to provide something to become valuable. Otherwise if they don't, they value drops and not only by status but physically as well. A man who just dont work out or do light work outs similar to women risks their testosterone level to drop. Because of the sedimentary lifestyle today, a lot of guys today are getting weak. Men are not naturally strong. They just had to be.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

I mean it's true that men have 10 time the testosterone compared to women, sure that's one thing but to make it work is they have to make use of it. The testosterone level of men is more about the capacity and to maintain it is to never stop doing painful liftings. That just means men are just designed to be work machines or die.

[Opinion Owner]

@Aiko_E_Lara honestly I didn’t watch your video you sent, didn’t feel like it.
Second I’m tired of responding to your long paragraphs. Third men have always made the laws, just as they determine how women were treated in the past. Work places would rather hire a man than a woman, that’s just known. It’s not women’s fault men are “forced” to be strong. Men force each other to be strong. I mean the things men go through are realistically because of other men. I mean if you guys would stop basing everything on your “testosterone”, it wouldn’t be such a “hard” time being a man. I mean… do we really care if your testosterone is up? If you work out? Men do though.
“Men are designed to be work machines” yeah… men think that way…
I mean all the yapping you did, just let’s be see that it’s men causing the problems for themselves.. I mean work places, who owns the company?
I’ll let this be my final reply to this, cause at this point you’re just running circles, and quite frankly people do care about men’s issues. Yet again men downplay it.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Then how would you exactly know what the videos that is correct or not? You had time looking for excuses yet you have no time trying to understand the video's contents and just dismissing it as yapping. That shows you just cherry picking on whenever it is benifiting your agenda.

Workplace hires those who are capable not because they are men but men just proves that they're more capable. And not only male employers do that but female employers too. Those female employers don't hire you just because you're a girl.

If I have to use your logic against you then what you said first in the comment is yapping. Talking about how "women are sick and class citizens" that's yapping.

If you still think that it's men being the cause of their own issue, why men don't openly express themselves, I'm pretty sure you just won't look at this video because it will prove my point. https://youtu.be/m5CPdW1BGb4?si=qIoeT68ErxWmUls2 Like how you didn't care about the suicide rate.

If not really is the case then it's your fault for being the second class citizens for not working as hard as men. It's your fault why you dont pressure yourself to become valuable. It's your fault why you remain valuable even if you do nothing.

[Opinion Owner]

@Aiko_E_Lara yeah not gonna watch your little video. But good boy, you found a video. So proud of you. Just like I said men downplay it, then after men have sat there mocked women for being raped, beat by partners and etc the women then shit talk men. I mean you lot talk about “suffering in silence” yet I hear a lot about it. So is it really in silence? Majority of guys that have been raped, have talked about how the men around they have congratulated them. I don’t care if random men don’t express there problems, all I know is that men around me do. That’s all that really counts.
Also where did I state about “women are sick and class citizens”? Cause I reread the comment and no where did I state that sentence, confused? Anyways it seems you commented on another women responding with “boys” this “men” that.. like geez dude, if it’s really that much of a hard hitter for you start a damn program or something. You’re spending this time going back and forth instead of creating a space for men to talk amongst yourselves.
Your edging 30 and your debating with a girl way younger than you, like my father would say “if an older man will go back and forth with a girl years younger than him, he might not have a life. And if a man is passionate about something he will find ways to make it work, so if he doesn’t he’s just putting up a front”
So if you’re actually passionate about spreading awareness about men’s mental health, stop talking to me about it and go do something to make waves about it.
And as my uncle would say “don’t spend your life blaming everyone for not being treated like the Boys do, as time goes on and your grow both will be treated harshly for something while the other doesn’t.” So quit acting like just because boys got treated this way for something, that girls didn’t get treated differently for something else.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Because all you see are men downplaying it and not society which also involves women. Also ignoring the women hate videos about men viral on TikTok and instagram everytime reflecting you. Also ignoring the men taking actions right away when it comes to women being raped. And you're still cherry picking.

And logic don't care if you're younger. Words being said have no age and even if I were a 5 year old, that doesn't change anything. You're focusing on the age instead of the actual argument.

Blaming you for women being second class citizens is your logic applied to blaming men for their issues. Talking to ignorant morons like you is a good start to spreading men's issue awareness. Because bitces like you are a reason why they're suppressed. And i know you won't even bother looking at the women hater videos im talking about.

[Opinion Owner]

@Aiko_E_Lara I assume I hit a nerve? Since you’re now calling me a bitch, I’ve seen the videos on TikTok and instagram and I report them. I personally in my city have never seen anyone jump to protect a woman that’s been sa’d or raped.
Blaming me? Fine by me, considering I’ve done nothing to make women a “second class”. “Ignorant morons” “bitches like you” I’ve definitely hit a nerve, it sounds like you might be what they call an Incel?
God are you on some sort of crack or something? Did mommy and daddy yell at you and take your video games away? You talking to me isn’t spreading any awareness at all actually, your just showing me that you as a man get upset when someone tells you to do something about it, which is why you resorted to name calling cause your upset. Do you need to suck on mommy’s boob to calm you down?
Also how did you send a YouTube video, then proceed to say I ignore instagram reels and TikTok? You didn’t send a TikTok or an instagram reel…
Stop acting like an upset child that got his toys taken away and starts yelling “I hate you” and be the almost 30 year old adult you are, cause last time I checked mature adult doesn’t result to insulting cause there upset.

[Opinion Owner]

@Aiko_E_Lara now you can call me what I want, cause well it shows that you can’t control your frustration at all. A young woman and a 30 year old man going back and forth and the first one to crack is the older man.
Like I said the last time, if you’re passionate about men’s health and issues start a program about it. Also probably lose the whole “second class citizen” thing too. You sound a little dumb when you say it.
Notice how there are some women that support men just like there are some men that support women. Not everyone is going to support it, some men don’t support other men just as some women don’t support other women.
I’m usually one to go along with the cause and support it, but I won’t support your cause as a solo. I’ll support others who don’t sa, rape, kill, and etc women.
Therapy is free, passion and supporting a cause is free. Just as cracking when upset is free and insulting is free. Choose which one you want the most, cause there all free. There’s always time to choose supporting and having passion for a cause over insulting and arguing.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Oh you just hit the nerve with men. Like how you just like to downplay the suicide rate of men calling it their fault comparable to those TikTok "ladies" you like to pretend to report. I'm just not sugar coating anything but that's just a simply fact. And all you are saying at this point are simply anecdotes. Like how you blame men for their problems, downplaying how women are treated, ignoring the videos I have sent you, only to excuse yourself to just whine about men's privilege. And if I was not really passionate about men's health issues, I wouldn't really be talking to brats like you. People are thought to ignore you but they don't realize people like you spread like virus. So it's only now you agree that men support women and women support men and yet your original clean is stating that you are treated like second class citizens while blaming men. So I showed you the other side of the story of how you are actually treated which you like the down play to justify your claim. This isn't really about you and who you are going to support but this is about your claim and you're just trying to change the topic at this point by trying to make it sound like you represent all women.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

I mean men basically just hit your nerve in the first place

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And here's another thing. You said you were done but you continue to get triggered anyways. It just proves you don't know what you're saying.

[Opinion Owner]

@Aiko_E_Lara it’s not my fault that men are causing their own problems. Just like it’s not men’s fault for causing women’s problems. Unless it is a crime itself then yes, whoever has done it.
No I said SOME support each other, not all of them. Let’s not forget some, cause I know for sure not all men support women.
How exactly am I “treated”? Cause last time I checked I’m treated how I want to be treated. I have hands and I’m not afraid to use them when it comes to someone treating me some random ass way.
Men don’t hit my nerve, wanna know why? Cause the man hand to come out of the women to be born.
I’m not triggered I’m actually giving to my music and not even reading half the stuff you say. Plus I absolutely had to answer when you got all upset and started throwing name around like tiny wittle baby.
I still don’t care for men’s suicide rates and I don’t care for women’s either. People need to stop killing themselves, start killing each other or something. I don’t know, survival of the fittest? Which seems to be happening when people commit anyway.
Anyways love ya, have a beautiful day being upset that a person younger than you ate you up hun.
Just and fyi I’m not reading that fat ass paragraph, I mean if you wanna type that long I could send you my number and you can call me. I enjoy talking over the phone instead of texting.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

No one is blaming you except for how you like yo deny the nature of how society just naturally work. And if you're treated like crap, you can only speak for yourself because you dont really represent women as a whole. And also, if men didn't really hit your nerves, then you don't hit my nerves. It's only a fact that you think the world revolves around you for not speaking for yourself. You don't care about men and women's issues and yet here you are so passionate about justifying yourself. Lol you really if women are blamed for your own problems. Like when i said it's womens fault they get raped and how badly they are treated following your own logic. And it's only now you're trying to act chill about it contradicting everything you said to make you feel like you have the moral high grounded. It's not name calling when it's explained and yet you just can't accept it. You freely blame men and can't accept if anyone does thesame to women. Looking at the previous chat, you not caring doesn't really describe the situation. And lets see if you really know what you're trying to say. Leaving? Or just looking for excuses to not eat your words for running out of credibility? Of course you're not going to read this because you'd rather be comfortable with your own ignorance. Just like how you can't even read what you're saying.

[Apple1996]

Pretty much yeah just think about how many girls had to stop going to school when they became puberty age/ start having a menstrual cycle while boys got to continue going to school. Girls and boys go from being treated equal to girls being treated lesser than just because of becoming a woman. My grandma was telling me how she only went to school until 7th grade because of that

[Aiko_E_Lara]

And yet you still fail to see how the school actually treated guys and how bias the school system is. Your grandma is an anecdote just like any guys saying that they failed at school.

[Apple1996]

@Aiko_E_Lara boys still got the opportunity of getting educated and that education lead them to being able to work and have financial freedom. All of those things are huge privileges

[Aiko_E_Lara]

If that really is the case then those homeless men and even those homeless veterans could have actually been rich by now. But you're overlooking the reality the guys who actually achieved something meaningful have to endure and think a lot of risks to get their title. And they don't have the same safety net women have. And those guys who succeed don't benefit the average men.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

Like for example, you get plenty of women's homeless shelters, emotional support, schools favoring women and just demonizing men's natural behavior, often seen us the victims for your failures, people instinctively react and protect women who are accusive and plenty of other privilege just I couldn't even think of. The difference is that you women are not pressured to climb up the corporate ladder the same way men are all because you have the special reproductive system.

[Apple1996]

@Aiko_E_Lara thats because the patriarchy hurts everyone. Unless your a rich man with power/control. The difference is even average men have that opportunity to get into that position of power while women dont

[Apple1996]

@Aiko_E_Lara I don't know about that lol modern women still do have that pressure to make it financially. Women who are tradtional like myself get judged harshly for not doing that

[Aiko_E_Lara]

If it hurts everyone then that's not patriarchy. That's just the reality of life and you're acting like the matriarchy is any different. Saying women don't have the same opportunity is just you ignoring how many women who are actually successful. So you literally have no excuse if you just like to blame men on everything. Really you don't know the nuance of emptying your wallet so you can start having a business, quitting your current job for another job your thought was better, making decisions about wasting your boss's time for an idea you got that can either be a waste of time or life-changing, deciding to work even if they are sick or they will have their salaries cut and so on which men tend to do.

The fact that you are a traditional wife right now and being a housewife just really means the pressure just wasn't enough and the fact that there are many guys who actually settle with traditional women just means that is another opportunity a woman can take. Men don't have that same luxury. Even if the woman is a working woman, they don't like house husbands.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

https://youtu.be/_ucR-1NodAs?si=DKg0luk2fWTGJn_6 here are more of those privileges. "I don't know about that" you say? That just proves your ignorance

[melssvdv]

@Apple1996 @Aiko_E_Lara Patriarchy does not hurt everyone. It is natural state of the world. Those who say 'patriarchy is bad' or sending this 'patriarchy bad' narrative are your evil Satan worshiping overlords who controls the mainstream media. Just to cause divide and conquer and to avoid nature's way. To turn the world upside down.

Patriarchy means (from my definition): men in charge over families (women, children, armies, etc.). And that is logical. That is natural because men are more capable than us. I do not mind saying it. I know it is true. We have just being repeated and bombarded by mainstream narrative saying that patriarchy is bad because oppression yada yada but no average man oppressed a woman. This whole fiasco is meant to dehumanize and demoralize humanity and turn the world upside down and let women be in charge but we are biologically not capable to be in charge over men.

Parents should be in charge over children (when pre-adults) right? That is normal. Both you and I know it's true. But how would you feel if your children stood up to you, pointing fingers to your face saying "I should not obey or listen to you because parents are oppressors"? See what I mean? Those Satan worshipers behind the narrative can definitely push these narrative and stories about how parents are oppressors and killers of their children over and over again and we will all start believing in it. Viewing 'parents are oppressors and bad'. You might find this ridiculous and you will feel anger and disappointment over your children. Your heart will ache and you will hold a huge grudge towards your children and the media who's responsible for all of this.

Now you know how men feel towards modern women and the media.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

I mean the matriarchy also exist. But really those ideologies just came down from interpretations when in reality, that's just how humans are bound to evolve. Even if anyone say the patriarchy isn't bad, but actually beneficial, That can be exactly why many feminists despise it. It's because they're just jealous of what they believe is true.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

In short, if you notice the pattern, It's always like "Men are evil. The patriarchy is harmful" but they are also like "why can't we be like men?"

So it's more like feminists know how beneficial men really are and they're trying to bring them down.

[AviatorTom]

The natural role for a female is to produce and care for offspring, while the natural role for a male is to provide for and protect the female and the offspring. I wouldn't call that treating women as second-class citizens. Females and males have their natural roles to fulfill. Without doing that humans cease to exist as a species.

[melssvdv]

Male is to produce offspring as well you know. Learned biology? No man, no offspring. It literally takes a man and woman to make one.

And if a man is to provide and protect the female and the offspring, then the definition 'take care' applies here as well.

So basically the male is to produce and care for both offspring and female.

Why are you trying to put 'produce' and 'care' exclusively for women when men do it as well?

[AviatorTom]

@melssvdv Females have the organs (ovaries and uterus) to produce offspring; males provide the trigger (sperm) to do that. In nature, the female is the main caretaker for the offspring, while the male protects them and provides food and housing for them.

[melssvdv]

The offspring is produced by two. You are trying to say that men do not reproduce... We carry the baby. That by itself forms no synonym or definition of 'reproduce'. Reproduction happens by the gametes of both male and female. Both men and women reproduce. But in different way.

[AviatorTom]

@melssvdv I ( never used the term "reproduce", I used "produce" and it's still pretty obvious that it's the formal that produces the offspring, from embryo to fetus to child. Let's not get stuck in semantics.

The point I was making, in response to the question, to put it another way, is that women get pregnant, not men (despite what radical leftists might say) and then give birth and are the primary caretaker of the child, while the male works to support them.

[melssvdv]

The embryo is produced by both male and female cells. Production happens by itself. It is biology doing its thing. Neither man or woman do it by themselves.

The only difference is that the woman carries it in her womb. The man works extra hard to take care of both of his wife and his unborn child. Give birth is just that: gestating a baby and pushing it out. There is nothing magical about it. No need to romanticize it.

That is the truth.

[Asker]

@melssvdv don't you think there's anything special about it like the bond a mother can form with the baby in the womb?

[melssvdv]

I was pregnant. I did not feel anything special. More like weakness. I was happy that the child is there and my husband also had a euphoria feeling. But then again, seeing and touching my child already born is hundred times better than keeping it in my womb. The child has to go out. No mother wants to keep it forever. A father also has the best feeling in the world when his child is born.

No need to romanticize to 'force' us keeping our femininity in check. That trick does not work on me.

[Asker]

@melssvdv in all honesty do you think you would've prefer the male experience in life if given a choice?

[melssvdv]

No. Because I am what I am. God has made me the way I am and I keep it.

[Asker]

@melssvdv I'm not a woman but this all seems like a clinical way to view yourself. Most of the process probably sucks but there's something special about a baby's life beginning in the womb

[melssvdv]

"something special about a baby's life beginning in the womb "

Like?

[Asker]

@melssvdv it's the origin of the deep mother child bond. A baby's entire world is its mother from the moment it comes into existence. Babies also leave a literal genetic imprint on the mother and it's a bond that nothing except death can take away.

[melssvdv]

You are just romanticizing.

[Asker]

@melssvdv so everything women say that's positive about pregnancy is romanticizing?

[melssvdv]

It is coping mechanism most women do. Because pregnancy , no matter what - is till - objectively speaking - a short end of the stick.

[Asker]

@melssvdv did you have any positive experience with it at all?

[melssvdv]

Sure but so does my husband. Did you really think the father is going to watch with blank face? Get real.

[Asker]

@melssvdv yes but it isn't as intimate

[melssvdv]

So? It is not like some God-like feeling anyway. Both parents are in joy. The difference is not much.

[melssvdv]

It is not only because our biological disadvantage in terms of reproduction. We also lack in physicality, mental strength and are not as stoic nor emotionally stable as men are. Why do you think men are in charge and leader of the relationship throughout humanity? Saying 'just because of pregnancy' is not enough.

[Asker]

But don't all differences between men and women stem from their reproductive systems? Everything you mentioned deals with hormones and the way the mind works which said hormones and mental differences are a result of the reproductive system.

[melssvdv]

@Sandman31 Nope. I am full woman. Married with a child. From Ireland. Thanks for trying though.

[melssvdv]

@Sandman31 Just because there are decent people accepting how nature and reality works does not make them bad. Quite the opposite.

[melssvdv]

And mister Asker. No, saying that differences come only from reproductive systems is completely bogus even a child would disagree with it. Just use your eyes and observe the differences between a man and woman. Men are bigger, stronger, more dense, etc. and that is why generations by generations men were capable to perform more feats than women. Reproduction is just one of many differences. A man being able to reproduce easier also put them on the higher (and also riskier) positions than women.

That is just how the world works. There was never equality in the first place. And I do not mind it.

[Bitter_Sweet94]

Yes, reproductive roles have historically been used to justify limiting women’s rights and opportunities.

Biology became a tool for control rather than a reason for respect.

It’s taken generations of struggle to separate capability from biology, and even now remnants of that mindset linger.

[melssvdv]

It is not only because our biological disadvantage in terms of reproduction. We also lack in physicality, mental strength and are not as stoic nor emotionally stable as men are. Why do you think men are in charge and leader of the relationship throughout humanity? Saying 'just because of pregnancy' is not enough.

I mean, why do you think children are treated as second class citizens before adults? Because adults contribute more because of their total biology (physics, mental, etc.). Saying just 'pregnancy' is lame.

As a woman I do not mind saying men are better. That does not make us useless though (something that feminism narrative is constantly repeating over and over again just to cause divide and conquer even more)

[Bitter_Sweet94]

I’m not saying pregnancy was the only factor.

I’m saying biology was used as justification.

There’s a difference.

Physical strength differences are real.

So are average differences in temperament.

But history didn’t just acknowledge differences, it hierarchized them and then locked people into roles with no exit.

Children aren’t treated as 2nd class because they’re inferior, but because they’re still developing.

And once they’re capable, they’re given agency.

Women, historically, weren’t.

Even when capable.

Acknowledging men’s strengths doesn’t require framing women as inherently less fit for autonomy or leadership.

And recognizing historical limitation isn’t the same as denying male contribution or competence.

Equality doesn’t mean sameness.

It means capability is assessed individually, not pre dismissed by biology.

Respect doesn’t require erasing differences, but it also doesn’t require ranking human worth.

[melssvdv]

Sorry, I though you implied that pregnancy was the only factor.

[Bitter_Sweet94]

No worries, thanks for clarifying.

I wasn’t reducing it to pregnancy alone, just pointing out how biology was historically used as a justification, not the full explanation.

I think we actually agree more than it might have seemed at first.

[genericname85]

I don't think they have been treated as second class citizens historically. I think they were treated as first class citizens. Like to me it seems first class if someone else will get all the money I need to leave me to just be at home to clean occasionally, cook and care for the children. That's super chill xD I don't understand how anyone can complain about that life. Like men do have all that work AND worry about bringing the cash home xD THAT is second class citizen in my book.

[Sal_Monella]

Women have not been treated as second class citizens for the better part of 100 years. It was partly cultural tradition inherited from Europe. But the Constitution says all men are created equal. And by men. The Constitution means the family of man. And that includes people of different races.

[purplepoppy]

No it's because of religion. The concept that Adam came before Eve and she ate the fruit has for centuries been the reason women have been pushed into second place.

[OneViewpoint]

Well that was only the narrative to support the whole patriarchal system of western religions.

Therefore women were not given education. Women were not allowed to own property. Women were not allowed to control money. Women had no voice in government.

Tell me religion wanted women to be slaves without saying men wanted women to be slaves.

Sexually and economically insecure men felt they had to imprison a women to keep her.

[Aiko_E_Lara]

In most cases it is just the woman's choice. Because they are not naturally pressured to climb up the corporate ladder the same way guys are. But if you just think that guys are higher class because of the leaders we have, you might also just not forget about how many guys will actually failed trying to achieve that position, without any safety nets society have for them.

[CupcakeTheDestroyer]

No, we were treated as gods for that. It’s for men’s reproductive systems that we’ve been treated like shit. They get to be “the seed” and all of a sudden they’re worthy of the same godhood.

[BCRanger10]

No, because women are not now and never have been "second-class citizens."

[Curmudgeon]

If anything, their reproductive ability gave them extra clout in all too many societies.

[Chazmatazz269]

Women have never been treated as second class citizens.

[ABC1x1x]

It because of their suicidal empathy. The only way the world will get out of the mess its in is rivers of blood l, war and billions of deaths... or they can just be mean to women and tell them their ideas are wrong and stupid.

[ibodi]

yes because transgenders are falling angels.

[beefcakebradybatson]

Of course. That what the natalist movement is largely about, trying to coerce white women into greater fecundity.

[msc545]

It's not about their reproductive systems; it's about their brains.

[Anonymous]

I suppose it's possible, it's mostly because of patriarchy.

[DrPepper12]

Ummm... This is kind of settled. Yes.

[Apple1996]

Im suprised by all those who voted no. They must know nothing about the 1000s of years of womens oppression 😂

[melssvdv]

@Apple1996 Why do you assume as if only women were 'oppressed'. Do you really think 'men oppress women' thing? Your average man was also oppressed back then. It isn't about gender. It is about the so called 'elite' oppressing the 'non-elite'. So the 'gender fallacy' falls out of the window. Your average woman was not oppressed. Stop believing in this mainstream nonsense trying to cause divide and conquer. No man I ever met did 'oppress' me.

[Anonymous]

No I think the opposite

[Asker]

Why? Hasn't it set back women?

[Gagforlifetime]

It depends on the country

[blackeagle007]

Huh?