Would you agree with higher taxes for completely free healthcare and education? Why or why not?

[Simslover92]

I think I would so I could get another degree in something more successful.

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

Not necessarily high taxes, but much lower cost to health care and education where people can easily afford it.

No need for those two to be a luxury for many.

[dudeinohio]

I would support such a plan if the tax increase wasn't too severe.

[madhatters4]

the vast majority of the developed world has a free healthcare system (free in that it's government subsidized and taxpayer funded) in addition to a private system. America is way behind the times in this and it shows

so yes i would agree

[RingOfFire]

Sure, why wouldn't you agree to being subsidized by someone else's money that is taken from them at gunpoint by the government?

[madhatters4]

@RingOfFire subsidized by someone else's money? it's my money i pay the taxes on it. better go to me or people who are sick than into the pockets of corrupt politicians or to feed the neverending military industrial complex.
and gunpoint? dramatic much?

[RingOfFire]

So if it's your money why not just pay for it yourself? Why have corrupt government politicians as middlemen?

[madhatters4]

@RingOfFire it's cheaper. the (current) privatized system is broken and insanely expensive... they take the money anyway. so they are already in the middle. ALL YOUR TAXES GO TO A MIDDLEMAN. but if they are going to put it back into the system, instead of into corrupted agencies (like 200million for DHS ad campaigns) why would i have an issue?

[RingOfFire]

"it's cheaper."

Oh man do you need a course in economics. Healthcare is VASTLY more expensive when the government is involved. Do you really believe that instead of paying a healthcare provider directly, the cost of healthcare is less when every dollar you give to the government costs 3 dollars in bureaucrat costs, another 3 dollars in corruption and fraud and THEN they "put back to the system" not even one dollar but an IOU in the form of public debt that your children and grandchildren will have to pay back?

Think about it.

[Levin]

It is worth noting that the US spends 17% of its GDP on healthcare, and far from covers everybody. In 'socialised' countries, everyone is covered for 11% of GDP.

Whenever I see private healthcare advertised I see 'existing conditions not covered'. Which kind of says it all really...

[RingOfFire]

@Levin

So I guess what you are saying is that all of these tens of millions of people who come to the United States to live both legally and illegally are stupid?

The United States has more people waiting in line to live here than all the socialist and communist countries with "free healthcare" in the world combined.

So you are calling these people idiots? Not very nice of you.

[SofaKingsMart]

@RingOfFire
By gunpoint?
Having your taxes deducted at source would be so much easier.

“Sure, why wouldn't you agree to being subsidized by someone else's money.” I can appreciate that you believe you have achieved everything in your life all by yourself, with no assistance from anybody.
If you grew up in the USA, you were “subsidized by someone else’s money.”
The schools you attended, the roads and building that were around before you were, all “subsidized by someone else’s money.”
You are not an island onto yourself. You are where you are because the American society created an atmosphere that allowed your progress. And much of that was, in fact, subsidized by other people’s money.
Is this a matter of “I got mine, screw everybody else?”

[RingOfFire]

@SofaKingsMart

"By gunpoint?
Having your taxes deducted at source would be so much easier."

Try refusing to allow them to confiscate your money and private property and see what happens.

[SofaKingsMart]

@RingOfFire
They will shoot you?

[RingOfFire]

@SofaKingsMart

While rare, individuals who violently resist IRS enforcement actions (such as audits, asset seizures, or arrests for tax evasion) have been killed by federal agents.

[SofaKingsMart]

@RingOfFire
That’s because they resisted in a violent manner.
You used extreme hyperbole.
Just admit it.

[RingOfFire]

@SofaKingsMart

Simple fact. They were killed for not paying their taxes. Had they capitulated and given the government mafia its vigorish, they would still be alive.

[SofaKingsMart]

@RingOfFire
If they allowed themselves to be arrested for not paying their taxes, do you believe they would have still been shot?

[MrOracle]

No. Things that have value should be paid for, and there should be competition to keep things (more) honest. The more the government gets involved, the more corrupt things get, the lower the quality becomes, and the less value people get for their money.

The reason American pay 10-20 times the amount for many medications is because of government policies that eliminate competition. The reason there are no set prices for things in hospitals is because of layers of government bureaucracy that allows different entities to pay very different prices for the same things.

Right now, the health care systems in "socialized medicine" countries are collapsing - Canada, England, France, Germany, etc. are in big trouble. Hell, Canada has programs to euthanize people with terminal illnesses and have contacted patients encouraging them to use them, EVEN plenty of people who are still living good, productive, enjoyable lives, because it's cheaper to give them a suicide cocktail than to treat them when their conditions worsen. Do you want the government calling you encouraging you to commit suicide so that you don't burden the health care system?

These socialized government health care systems were set up in the 50s, after WWII when the economies of most countries (and certainly the population of most countries) was growing and the economies expanding, but it was always a house of cards that depended on forever growth, both of the population and of the economy. Well, populations are shrinking, and instead of having 10 or 12 workers in their prime to support every retired worker, we're soon going to have 2 or even less workers per retiree, and those retirees are living much longer than people lived in the 1950s when these systems were created. They're all either collapsing or have already collapsed and they've just managed to hide the reality from the public. It's also one of the reason why leaders have been trying to import so many immigrants - they've known the birth rate was collapsing and they hoped to prop up the systems via immigration. The problem is that many groups of immigrants put an even larger strain on the systems while contributing very little.

In the US, there are at least still alternatives to a national system, but socialists want these alternatives destroyed/banned so that everyone is forced into a single national system. Here's the thing: people from socialized medicine countries who have money come to the US for complex surgeries or treatments for major diseases. Why? Because the care in the US is better - often a LOT better, even if it costs more.

Ask someone in Canada or the UK how long it takes to get an MRI, or worse, how long it takes to get a cancer screening. In the US, if they test you and suspect cancer, you get a screening the same day, and often start treatment within 24 hours. In Canada or the UK, you can wait weeks or months for imaging or other procedures, all while your cancer grows untreated, and your chances of survival diminish. No one ever wants to talk about that, but you can talk to people who live with those systems, and they'll tell you.

Governments have very few things they are any good at besides wasting money and abusing power. The less they are involved in your life, the better your life is likely to be. And anyone expecting to get something for nothing needs to understand that anything you get "for free" is still going to have a real-world cost. It may not be a cost in money - it might just be months or years of your life. Nothing of value is free, nor should it be.

[Kelley1]

You are telling it like it is.

[madhatters4]

a universal plan is still paid for. there's still competition. and every nation with a public option still has a private system for those who want it

[Levin]

Obviously, I'm not a black and white advocate for UK healthcare. Obviously, it is hugely flawed.
Having said that, if I need emergency care, my experience is that you will get it straight away and it will be free.
Sure, you will wait longer if it's not urgent.
I avoid the doctor for obvious reasons.
But my experience for minor niggles recently has been a two week wait for some physio.

[Levin]

Incidentally I did also pay £85 for a session of private physio. Which was also shit.

Just go on youtube. I fix most of my problems using that.

There are major problems with our understanding of disease and our reductionist healthcare.

[goaded]

"The reason American pay 10-20 times the amount for many medications is because of government policies that eliminate competition. The reason there are no set prices for things in hospitals is because of layers of government bureaucracy that allows different entities to pay very different prices for the same things."
It's not just that, although some health care laws do allow the providers to set the prices, it's that the government doesn't regulate the corporations and encourage competition. Health care is a natural monopoly and companies are allowed (by the government, yes) to exploit that.

"the three largest PBMs in the US, CVS Caremark, Cigna Express Scripts, and UnitedHealth Group's Optum Rx, make up about 80% of the market share covering about 270 million people with a market of almost $600 billion in 2024." insuredandmore.com/which-pharmacies-are-owned-by-pbms

"UnitedHealth's Optum, the business unit housing its clinics and surgery centers, said it employed or was affiliated with 90,000 doctors. That's a whopping 10% of all doctors in the US."

"Hospitals have been scooping up medical practices for decades to create giant health systems. Insurance companies fought back with their own clinic purchases. Private equity firms increasingly staked claims to nursing homes and groups of specialists such as emergency physicians and dermatologists."

They're doing it for the profits, not for the patients.

Guess which party at least tries to do something about it. "The Biden administration has been more aggressively cracking down on healthcare deals, though antitrust laws often allow smaller deals to go through without notice."

[MrOracle]

Neither party has a record remotely to be proud of in this area. These huge companies are big campaign donors and overall Washington influencers, and so we have decades of laws that favor the Healthcare companies end even more the insurance companies. Anti (trust should have kicked in a very long time ago.

That said, the US still provides better health care. The costs could and should be better managed, but that's a whole different discussion.

[goaded]

One party, on the one occasion it found itself in almost complete power, voted unanimously for the ACA, Obamacare, and would also have gone for a public insurance option if it wasn't for one "independent" in the Senate.

The other party voted en masse against it.

Just in case you're suggesting both sides are equal.

US health care is not in the public interest.

[Cyfris]

No.. I'm Canadian where both are currently free and if I could pay for better service I would. Free doesn't mean better it just makes it accessable to people who wish to abuse it more easily.. I spent 8 hours not able to see a doctor while in sever back pain that had me at the hospital at 3:30am when I couldn't sleep only to wait while a homeless man was catered to because he was cold and didn't want to sleep outside so they let him take up a bed. I'm not saying the homeless don't deserve sympathy or assistance but I think in a paid system I wouldn't have had to take a day off work and risk homelessness and the homeless guy could have got the help he needs from the other resources made available to him and we both would have been better for it. Same for schooling i think a basic education should be free to the point in which you can complete it but not everyone should have access to all levels of education. An example would be when I went to collage for mechanics. The first class I applied to I did not get accepted the class was already full. Two weeks after the start date I get a call a seat has opened up, a person who had gotten a dei seat had dropped out after failing the first test when her sponsorship expired. Turned out this was the fourth time she had been accepted and failed and yet she still was able to attend for free. I had to pay and I had to make up the first two weeks on my own and pass the test she failed. Where as if it was a paid system she wouldn't have spent her on money on it knowing she would fail like she did many times before and the seat would have been available to me off the rip saving me time and effort.

[RingOfFire]

The USA has a GIGANTIC industry in Canadian border states of Canadians coming to the US to get the healthcare they cannot get in their socialist healthcare system in Canada. It's great business in the US for hotels and hospitals.

Many heads of state in countries with "free" healthcare, including several past PMs of Canada have flown to the United States in emergencies because they wanted the best healthcare available in the world and it wasn't going to be in their own country. I remember a scandal many years ago when some Canadian PM flew here in the dark of night so as not to call attention to Canada's failing socialist healthcare system.

Meanwhile the Democrats morons in the US were touting Canada's "free" healthcare and trying to push the same failed system on America.

[Levin]

We have higher taxes here for free healthcare (UK). While our system is obviously not perfect, the US system is an absolute disaster. I mean, what the fuck are private ambulances?

We have free education up until 18. Some small subsidy of university education may be okay, perhaps in crucial industries. But obviously, I think university is a load of garbage these days. I don't believe the taxpayer should be subsidising it to any significant degree. Plus the jobs just aren't there. Most leave university and get barely anything better than a minimum wage job. The economy needs dynamism and less red tape.

The problem is more a wider one of socialism becoming some ever more engorging beast. We may have had the balance right, say, 20 years ago. But the benefits system in this country is completely out of control. I frequently see new arrivals from abroad's Universal Credit statements. I see them getting more, quite frequently, than the salary of full time staff where I work. This is obviously outrageous. The absolute waste and shitshow that is our government. I hear advertised that you can get a 'government' grant of £7500 for a heat pump (highly questionable technology). Obviously there is no government money, it is tax payers who pay from their hard work. This is indicative of the absolute squander of tax payer money the government is responsible for. Obviously covid is another example of complete and utter madness.

Work needs to pay again.

[Levin]

by the way, I'm fairly sure I saw a news article of some gofundme for a minor celebrity who required $1.5 million to pay their medical bills. I mean, what the fuck is that? Seriously.

[Chazmatazz269]

Stop using the word “free” to describe things that someone else pays for. That’s not “free”.
This is what happens when you create new entitlement programs:

https://youtu.be/0ye4n2prdDQ?si=-1gqV3LEt8IwS774

Thousands of colleges, universities and students or potential students are reporting tens of thousands of cases of fraud well into the MILLIONS. It’s all over FAFSA and other entitlements that are already supposedly restricted. What do you think is going to happen when you add zeros to the amount of money available?
Look at the welfare and government assistance fraud that’s being uncovered already. BILLIONS of dollars that NOBODY was watching because people act like that money magically appears out of thin air when you call it “free”.
I wouldn’t trust the government with my lunch money. There’s no way i’m accepting MORE taxes before ALL waste, fraud and abuse is eliminated and everyone involved in ripping off US taxpayers is in prison.

[Kelley1]

Most YouTube videos are lies because lies generate more view and more income. Ghost students is a typical YouTube lie.

[Chazmatazz269]

Nonsense. If you watched the video, you would have seen that a youtube channel merely shared a news report by local outlets. Hundreds of other news outlets across many states are reporting similar stories. Just because you think you are owed something that you have not earned, that doesn’t make exposing waste, fraud and abuse “lies”. Grow up.

[MrChinaski]

There are pros and cons.

Schooling (universal) and hospitals (triaged by need) are free here (Australia); higher education, primary care and pharmaceuticals are heavily subsidised.

Pros:

- Effective safety net. Hospitals are excellent. Primary care and pharmaceuticals subsidies allow access while maintaining incentives against overuse through copayments. We get better health outcomes than the USA at 2/3 the cost.

- Improves intergenerational mobility.

- Improves social cohesion. We rarely shoot each other.

Cons:

- Public schools are so bad that half of people pay for private schools AS WELL AS taxes to school other people's kids. (Caps revealing my grumpiness.)

- Undergraduate programs have become paper-vending machines (or three year vacations, depending upon how you look at it) as universities chase unregulated fees from incapable, often illiterate in English international students; domestic students are forced into far more expensive graduate courses in order to be employable.

- Subsidising higher education is regressive. i. e. the main beneficiaries are people with above average lifetime earnings, which is terrible social welfare policy.

- Sure we pay a couple more percentage points of GDP in taxes compared to the USA, but the difference is not that large.

[MrChinaski]

Australia 28.5% tax share of GDP vs US 26.6% tax share of GDP. Pretty similar.

ifs.org.uk/.../total-tax-revenue-share-gdp-oecd-countries

[HawkPerception]

We have that in Canada already. Ask Canadians what free healthcare is like. They'll all say it's shit. When workers know their income doesn't come directly from you (technically it's from your taxpaying money, but it's the government who funds them), they tend to not give a shit about their quality of service.

Wait times in Canadian hospitals and how long it takes to get appointments are ridiculously long. It's more effective to take a flight to China and get a medical examination and treatment there than it is to get healthcare service in Canada.

Hate to say it, but unless we abolish the concept of money entirely, everyone is greedy and selfish and doesn't give a shit about you.

[Ariesman81]

Ohhh... we see it here with our Medicaid. Lobbies full of our welfare queens and their 5 tax exemptions. It's infuriating. And liberals telling us everyone should be like them. Fuck that!

[HawkPerception]

@Ariesman81 Liberals ruin every society with their suicidal empathy. They're just a bunch of clowns masquerading as white knights

[OneViewpoint]

Point 1 - If it's being paid for with taxes it isn't free. But yes, I believe a for profit healthcare system is grossly inefficient and focused on greed rather than healthcare outcomes.

Point 2 - If we take out all the profits for insurance companies, reinsurance companies, insurance brokers, pharmacy benefit managers, hospitals, clinics. And we take away all the litigation and lawyers fees. And we take away the 700 different insurance plans on 100 different billing platforms. And we replace that with one plan on one billing system for everyone. The cost of healthcare per person will drop dramatically and the quality of healthcare will increase exponentially.

Point 3 - If we also kick the pharmaceutical industry in the ass and remove their special treatment and protections to create an actual free market system, we can lower prescription drug costs dramatically.

Point 4 - The system becomes fair and people will support fair.

[MisterWack]

We currently pay $1 billion a day everyday that Iran War continues.
We have the money to pay for free healthcare and education, along with ending homelessness also fixing the mental health crisis.

I would be in total favor of a tax increase, especially if we push greater funding towards IRS, make tax software totally free to help Americans file their taxes with ease, raise wages so it exceeds cost of living, lower the cost of living, and do AntiTrust breakups of giant corporate entities who have a chokehold on our healthcare system and more.

[RingOfFire]

Of course I wouldn't. Healthcare is no different than anything else. It should be run like any other PRIVATE enterprise not be by the government. That's how America became the leader in virtually every industry and healthcare is no different. What is needed in healthcare is not more government involvement, price control and regulation, but more competition among healthcare providers, price transparency and government incentives. We need LESS government in healthcare not more. We need LESS taxes so WE can decide how to best spend our own money, not more taxes to let someone else decide. Let the CONSUMERS decide how to spend THEIR OWN money and what is best for them, not government bureaucrats. THAT is how you get better healthcare at a better price.

[RingOfFire]

PS same is true for education. That's why a private education is ALWAYS better than the one you get in the public schools. The public schools spend twice as much per student than the private schools and give a worse education. This is ALWYAS what happens when the government takes over an industry because the bureaucrats and politicians don't care how they spend YOUR money... it's not theirs. So the waste, fraud and abuse by the government is out of control!

[RingOfFire]

A private business... whether a healthcare provider or a school can only stay in business if it pleases it's consumers. A government run healthcare provider or school doesn't care if you are happy with them or not. They still get their taxes from you by gunpoint either way!

[exitseven]

I get healthcare already from my employer and I had to pay to get myself and my 3 kids through college. I filed all the FAFSA forms and Pell grants and anything else I could find and we got zero help from the government so thanks for nothing. But don;t ask me to pay for everyone else;s kid.

[aaron13547]

No because thats like giving our power and worth away for someone else to take care of us... education is how they program us for life. As a kid you watch and learn what works best. We get told there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. We are taught when we get hurt we go to someone else to fix us. And its all free 🙂

That kind of sounds like a trap to me. I want to learn to take care of myself. Not work one job for someone else to do everything else for me...

[ohsheeT]

You can go to school right now and on line course you can get paid close to 8.000 for completing the course I think it's like 5 to 6 months.

Depending on the class two to three days per week a couple hours per day after you pass that course you can take another one and they will pay you again

[Avicenna]

Well, we'd need to know exactly how much higher to decide (would this also include forgiving existing student loans and/or medical debt, for example?). The big concern I'd have is there would be overconsumption of both, especially healthcare, if both were free at the point of sale, and therefore a lot of money wasted.

[Shiprex]

I am not in the 3rd world country where universal health care is a ridiculous sentiment so to me it's baffling why health and education are commercialised to the point of in-debting folk for trying to improve their contributions toward society then bankrupting them when they need society to work for them

[AviatorTom]

No. People respect more when they have to work for it. When something is free, many take it for granted.

[Mike_Hum]

Absolutely not. I'm not responsible for paying for your education. You're responsible for paying for your education. Same with your healthcare.

I already pay too much in taxes.

[Simslover92]

I don't care so much about Healthcare but education I feel should be free considering its free in other countries.

[Mike_Hum]

Nothing is free. Stop using that to describe something. "taxpayer funded" is what you mean.

[Simslover92]

Yes but education as it still stands should be taxpayer funded because we spend way too much in tuition and student loans.

[Mike_Hum]

that's quite possibly the worst justification for taxpayers to fund your education. You pay too much in tuition BECAUSE the government guarantees student loans, and people take stupid majors like 'feminist studies' that have no marketable value.

The ONLY thing I would agree to is that student loans should be interest free.

[Simslover92]

Well what if it was for majors that mattered like medicine or engineering?

[Mike_Hum]

Nope. Doctors and Engineers understand that their future income is worth the education investment.

[Mike_Hum]

And what happens if they go for 2 years on my dime and drop out? How do I recoup that expense?

[Simslover92]

That's true. I didn't think about that. You're right I guess.

[Bricealan]

@Mike_Hum That was my comment

[Cidknee]

I pay school taxes as we all do in Texas, but I don't have kids, and I've not been to school in a long time. So people with kids get to pay less on school taxes because I chip in as much as they do and not even a stinkin' thanks do I get! 🖖👈👍

[Mike_Hum]

@Cidknee It's a fine line, because there is a societal benefit to there being fewer losers in America.

[slatyb]

Yes, I would. Almost every developed nation except the United States has single-payer healthcare. They are healthier and live longer. No one is bankrupted by medical costs. Their young people do not leave college owing a house.

[Grond21]

No. Thinking that the government can manage that effectively is so ridiculous to me. It's cheaper for everyone when they stay out of it

[Massageman]

If the healthcare is "completely free", why would we be paying taxes for it?

As far as education, homeschooling is less costly by a huge factor, and the results are proven to be significantly better.

[Massageman]

If anyone is even considering homeschooling- and you do NOT have to be an expert in any subject matter since excellent portfolios of learning materials are available- consider the book "think about homeschooling" by S. Glenn. Both of my daughters loved it and both are now homeschoolers.

[Agape93]

Yeap. Better than the tens of thousands for one procedure or one semester

[Static_In_The_Attic]

As for me I Would NEVER Agree To HIGHER TEXES & if healthcare was free I wouldn’t enroll in it because the quality of service would be shit.

[HighValue]

No. People that are lazy and abuse their bodies would benefit while people that exercise and don't abuse substances would be penalized. That is unfair.

[DonaldDarko]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw_gxEL0Q_A

[darkcloud1945]

You have already seen what the government does to things it touches. Imagine free health care, with people waiting months for service, as Canada does now. Listen from the river to the sea, NOTHING IS EVER FREE!!!

[strateguy632]

that is silly just pay when i need health care. NOT EVERY MONTH SALARY! what is with those free health care idiots like bernie sanders etc?

[jshm2]

Lol, what the hell else are taxes for?

America is such a scam, you're better calling it a ponzi nation.

[lilBigPotato]

It doesn't need to be completely free but it should be affordable for everyone. Luckily that's the case here in most European countries.

[Kelley1]

No, because, even in the best case situation, the taxes are double the market cost.

[888theGreat]

Taxes are from money you earned , it is theft. And it is not free if they take your money to pay for it. Colleges are failing society. They turnout complete idiots. Now I know why college grads can't get a job.

[Telekinetic-Potato]

We already raised the taxes for that a million times. Just fucking revolt already

[RavVid]

Effectively we have free health in Australia. Not free tertiary education though it is subsidized.

[Snakeyes7]

Nope. Everything the state touches turns to shit. The healthcare system is as bad as it is now because the state is already involved to some degree and health insurance is a scam.

[loveslongnails]

That would depend on which country you're talking about.

[oldman26]

there are countries that have similar or lower taxes, that provide health care, up until 1973 insurance was nonprofit, thank Nixon

[Pterodon]

Fuck no. Pay for it yourself I’m not paying for you

[Cidknee]

That's great for the elderly but not most under 60.

[Ariesman81]

There's already subsidized healthcare and paid education. It's called a job.

[Anonymous]

most of your tax dollars are spent on wars.

[Anonymous]

No. "Free" healthcare means that the quality of care would drop. Socialism has been proven to never work. Higher taxes simply mean less take-home pay

[msc545]

No, I would agree to lower taxes to finance the defense industry.

[Jeff51]

How high are you talking about? Few bucks is ok with me.

[Anonymous]

No, the education part is already free and doesn't do too well.

[Bklynbadboy12]

Sure would but not bullshit health care real health care

[robocop666]

some countries have ridiculous health costs and education

[Anonymous]

Not really

Anything completely free is misused and taken for granted

[KimmySchmit]

No. Nothing is free.

[snermcger]

No, because government are worthless.

[MissSunshine2]

Absolutely.

[Unknown527]

there's nothing wrong with me so no

[Dargil]

Neither.

[Zionne]

i would still don't