He's trying to avoid a PR nightmare. He looks bad no matter what happens. Simply getting challenged by a woman ruins your rep. You refuse to go against her, bad rep. You go against her and lose, bad rep. You go against her and win, bad rep. It's a lose/lose/lose situation, refusing to fight is usually the least taxing thing though. Since it never happened, there isn't much you can sayq
If she is already wrestling with makes and they are the same weight class why shouldn't she be allowed to? The matches are refereed. There are adults there to intervene. As for danger? You can get hurt in any sport regardless of who you are competing against. Just because you compete against your own gender does not mean you will be evenly matched. So I really don't see why she shouldn't be able to do it. And him refusing to me sounds more like sexism and closemindness
Anyone, of course, has the right to forfeit if they want. If he's citing religious reasons that's fine. But to act like she's not physically capable when she's been wrestling for awhile and obviously winning matches seems extremely sexist to me.
Did he say that she was physically incapable of winning? He made a decision. He provided the reason for his decision. That is that. It is not complicated.
Question. How many pull-ups/ push-ups can an average female do? Answer. Not half as many as the men, know why? 75% more upper body strength. Now, is that fair? No it’s not, it’s like a regular guy has to fight some juice head pumped up on testosterone and Thai Russians. Go to YouTube and search “ skinny guy arm wrestles female bodybuilder”
I think that it's something that is dependent on the female. Would I be able to compete with a man in wrestling? No. But I have one or two friends that would probably do well. If the league allows it I don't see why you would care if you wrestled her. The guy's role is to complete. The role of figuring out who wrestles whom is the leagues. He had the right to forfeit. I'm not disputing that, and if he's saying he wasn't comfortable with it for religious reasons that's fine. But as a competitor you don't get to choose your opponent. That's true in any sport. You compete against the person that's earned the spot to compete against you.
I wrestled in highschool, it was mixed gendered. I got a lot of this, I didn't care. I'm not gonna force anyone to do something they aren't comfortable with, that ruins the fun in it. I actually laughed when ever we versed this catholic all boys school, i already knew I wouldn't get a match lmao its nothing special, they just aren't comfortable. Plenty of other matches will happen, not a a big deal.
Chivalry... It has been scientifically proven that men have more testosterone then females... I'm not saying that men are better then females but the more testosterone you have the more strength and more endurance you have (i believe i haven't researched into the su ject that much so i could be wrong) while a female wrestler could beat a man she'd probably be hard pressed to beat a male wrestler especially if they are dedicated and do the same routine... I hope I'm not sounding sexist but it is my honest opinion that what the dude did is chivalrous because he might of known about the testosterone difference or have different morals where he was raised to not hit a female
I don't know what his personal reasons were. As a former wrestler, I am well aware of the degree of body contact necessary when wrestling. There is not doubt in my mind, that if I had wrestled girls, out of necessity, I would have felt her boobs a lot, and would have had my dick pressed against her, and my hand and arms between her legs. Not to be nasty, but because close body contact is necessary when wrestling, and the moves needed to win include this.
she qualified as anyone else, she knew the risks and i see no reason why someone would refuse to fight unless its judgement about the gender he wouldn't refuse to fight a guy thats way weaker than him so weakness isn't the issue but gender if he was afraid to hurt her he could just level out his fighting by beating her without really hurting her bad... provided ofc if he was the one that is actually better
Hard to say. Did he refuse because he’s scared of getting beaten or because he’s afraid that he mighty hurt her? Plenty of women out there that can easily beat up a man. But if it is the latter, I can’t blame him, if he was raised a certain way it would be unpleasant for him to even consider having a physical fight with a woman.
@Cocacolaaddict that is what he said, of course you can’t read into his mind. For all we know maybe he didn’t want to take the risk of getting beaten. And that is a different issue.
You are correct in stating that we cannot know. His word is the only evidence we have with which to form an opinion on the topic. If you are unwilling to regard that as credible, then what is the point in speculating?
@JosephBlack I agree but that isn’t the issue here. The issue isn’t whether what he said is truthful or not. The main issue is finding the ‘correct’ approach to take when a male is pitted against a female in a professional setting, where normally gender shouldn’t affect decisions. If it is assumed that it is always a good thing for the male to back down in these situations (and let him be seen as a sort of hero), that creates a problem with where the reasons for backing down are actually fraudulent. It also creates a problem in regards to disallowing females to rank up respectfully, because I’m sure most wouldn’t be happy to rank up only because their opponent simply backed out without even giving the fight a shot. Especially where their opponent would still be the one granted laureates for his ‘chivalrous’ act. Of course we won’t know his intentions for sure and we can only speculate but speculating alone draws attention to the problem. For example, it is quite interesting to consider what the best case v worst case scenarios would be if the opponent didn’t back down.
First of all, thank you for taking the time to formulate an intelligent response. Few people on this website seem to do that.
I agree with your point and it seems I misunderstood your previous comment. I can understand the relevance of attempting to find a societal solution to this issue. It seems that this situation will become more common and it is important to weigh people's beliefs and sensitivities against fair competition. However, he claims that he forfeited to be chivalrous and I am willing to take him at his word.
There is a problem in your statement your saying there's a problem with backing down in case he loses. The problem is if he does lose he's seen as a weak pathetic loser the girl doesn't rank up herself she just downranks him if he lost everyone would just think he's a REALLY bad fighter because he lost to a girl she isn't seen as a good fighter for beating somebody stronger than her she's just an ordinary girl to everyone and he is completely emasculated by even losing. Tell me is it really worth it when losing means you lose all respect all favour credence perhaps even your career it can just destroy your entire life so what's the better thing to do smartly back down and continue fighting as normal or to risk having your entire life destroyed?
P. S. I only replied to you the way I did because you decided to pick that way of speaking. Usually I refrain from writing in such a way, because some people might find it annoying. And since the point of writing, in this case, is to communicate clearly, I wouldn’t pick a writing style that is confusing or difficult to read for anyone else. I don’t personally think GaG is the sort of platform that warrants that style of writing anyway.
@Cocacolaaddict I don’t completely agree with your statement about her not ranking up if she wins. I still think most people would credit her with more respect if she did win honestly, than when she won simply because he backed down. I do think he would be shamed regardless if he won or lost, but for different reasons. But him backing down has more social implications on his female opponent, as it is basically a check-mate against her.
I don’t think his decision is stupid. Like you said, it is probably the smartest move he could have pulled. But all I’m considering are the social implications this decision has on her, and other female competitors in the long term.
Imagine training X amount of years to just to be told that your opponent won’t compete with you because you’re considered to be the weaker sex. She must’ve been fuming. Again, I’m not saying that she would’ve won, nor do I think that he was definitely lying about his reasons for backing down. But that his decision didn’t exactly benefit her, probably not in the way she’d like anyway. And whoever decided to ask him about how the opponent’s dad feels about this, and the dude blurting out that ‘oh he totally agrees with it’, is a bit of an asshole.
Yeah I see your point but nobody is going to just wreck their own life to benefit someone else she may have trained hard and she may be just as good but you can't expect someone to sacrifice their career just so you could rise
Doesn't matter, either way regardless of whether or not he did it for religious and personal reasons, he would still be accused probably be seen as the bad guy for not being equal and being abusive. Hell, they would probably have said he sexually assaulted her if he went through with the match because it requires grips and submissions.
Is there a difference? Both see women as weaker and thus deserving of different treatment. But personally, I think he made the right choice. I think he would have an unfair advantage that could possibly lead to injury. Can you imagine if he fought her and she got seriously hurt? That would blow back on him in a real bad way. Better to just refuse.
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I wrestled in high school and some in college. Girl wrestlers were just starting to come around. But there weren’t enough of them to compete against each other. So they usually ended up wrestling boys (on JV)
I can still remember one of the girls on my team who pinned a guy. The crowd went nuts. I applauded her. But when it was all said and done all I couldn’t help but think about how shitty, weak and pathetic the guy felt for losing to her. That’s going to stick with him for the REST of his life. Nobody is going to forget that, lest himself.
"Personal and religious convictions." He has a valid argument for why he didn't, right there. Yes, it's a show, yes it is his career, but the media and the producers have to respect his personal and religious views, even if it means the show can't go on.
I actually lost to a women in a wrestling tournament because I was scared. Its very uncomfortable as a man to wrestle a women because of how personal of an event it is. As a man thinking of all the ways you could get in trouble in that scenario is crazy, it is why mens and womens sports are separate. It has nothing to with whether a man or women would win, cause at the end of the day its a skill and knowledge based sport.
It was varsity, and there was no competition. It was my 1st year doing wrestling and my friend got me into it since i felt too small to continue doing football. She probably beat me in 30 seconds or so.
That’s shitty man. Did the crowd cheer? No chic would ever beat me but then again I’m 6ft and I wrestled 145 to 160. Most HS aren’t that big unless they are overweight
I used to compete in MMA. A female kickboxing chic once did a spinning back kick to my liver. It didn’t stop me but I was in agony. But what made me angry is that spinning kicks/punches are considered dirty moves in sparring. You are not supposed to do them unless you and your partner agree it’s okay. But since she was a girl it was “okay” for her to do it. I wasn’t hitting her hard either.
Even if it wasn't religious, what does he have to win? If he beats her then he will feel bad and for beating a girl and could be even judged by other fo going hard on her. If he looses people will make fun of him for being beaten by a girl.
Considering he would likely have smashed her. It was an act of mercy. There is a reason women dont compete in mens sports. Take what that Tranny MMA fighter did to the female mma fighter.
Most men do not like seeing women get hurt. Most men want no part in hurting a women.
I'd say this was an act of a decent young man not wanting to potentially injure a woman. He's probably been taught since birth to protect women, to not hit them.
Funny how the interveiwer suggest because she's ok be grappled by males that they should automatically be ok being grappled by females. This guy has a veiw on physical contact with women, he's passed up a big oppurtunity for his beliefs. Good for him. He hasn't been derogatory about his opponent, he just dosent feel comfortable being so up close and petsonal witb a girl. In the wake of #metoo it wouldn't surprise me if more young men refuse
Neither. He said "religious convictions" that could mean he isn't allowed to touch a woman who isn't his wife, he specifically mentions he is uncomfortable touching her in those ways. He could be both, based on your political opinion, if he said any woman is too weak to fight him. He did not say that, he said he can not touch women in those ways. He can not let women put him in a hold or put them in a hold.
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He's trying to avoid a PR nightmare. He looks bad no matter what happens. Simply getting challenged by a woman ruins your rep. You refuse to go against her, bad rep. You go against her and lose, bad rep. You go against her and win, bad rep. It's a lose/lose/lose situation, refusing to fight is usually the least taxing thing though. Since it never happened, there isn't much you can sayq
If she is already wrestling with makes and they are the same weight class why shouldn't she be allowed to? The matches are refereed. There are adults there to intervene. As for danger? You can get hurt in any sport regardless of who you are competing against. Just because you compete against your own gender does not mean you will be evenly matched. So I really don't see why she shouldn't be able to do it. And him refusing to me sounds more like sexism and closemindness
Anyone, of course, has the right to forfeit if they want. If he's citing religious reasons that's fine. But to act like she's not physically capable when she's been wrestling for awhile and obviously winning matches seems extremely sexist to me.
Did he say that she was physically incapable of winning? He made a decision. He provided the reason for his decision. That is that. It is not complicated.
Your right he didn't. I was responding more to some people's reasoning it was ok.
Question.
How many pull-ups/ push-ups can an average female do?
Answer. Not half as many as the men, know why? 75% more upper body strength.
Now, is that fair? No it’s not, it’s like a regular guy has to fight some juice head pumped up on testosterone and Thai Russians.
Go to YouTube and search “ skinny guy arm wrestles female bodybuilder”
I think that it's something that is dependent on the female. Would I be able to compete with a man in wrestling? No. But I have one or two friends that would probably do well. If the league allows it I don't see why you would care if you wrestled her. The guy's role is to complete. The role of figuring out who wrestles whom is the leagues.
He had the right to forfeit. I'm not disputing that, and if he's saying he wasn't comfortable with it for religious reasons that's fine. But as a competitor you don't get to choose your opponent. That's true in any sport. You compete against the person that's earned the spot to compete against you.
I wrestled in highschool, it was mixed gendered. I got a lot of this, I didn't care. I'm not gonna force anyone to do something they aren't comfortable with, that ruins the fun in it. I actually laughed when ever we versed this catholic all boys school, i already knew I wouldn't get a match lmao its nothing special, they just aren't comfortable. Plenty of other matches will happen, not a a big deal.
And its understandable. I actually got a couple matches where my opponent popped a boner. I now know the protocol for that scereio lmao
What's the protocol?
When we fight between men, we go up, with the certain that to die there may be a result, we assume it.
But when a girl goes to a ring, not always have that spirit.
If I see a girl with that face when we are going to combat I fight, if I don't, I prefer to quit.
Chivalry... It has been scientifically proven that men have more testosterone then females... I'm not saying that men are better then females but the more testosterone you have the more strength and more endurance you have (i believe i haven't researched into the su ject that much so i could be wrong) while a female wrestler could beat a man she'd probably be hard pressed to beat a male wrestler especially if they are dedicated and do the same routine... I hope I'm not sounding sexist but it is my honest opinion that what the dude did is chivalrous because he might of known about the testosterone difference or have different morals where he was raised to not hit a female
I don't know what his personal reasons were. As a former wrestler, I am well aware of the degree of body contact necessary when wrestling. There is not doubt in my mind, that if I had wrestled girls, out of necessity, I would have felt her boobs a lot, and would have had my dick pressed against her, and my hand and arms between her legs. Not to be nasty, but because close body contact is necessary when wrestling, and the moves needed to win include this.
she qualified as anyone else, she knew the risks and i see no reason why someone would refuse to fight unless its judgement about the gender
he wouldn't refuse to fight a guy thats way weaker than him so weakness isn't the issue but gender
if he was afraid to hurt her he could just level out his fighting by beating her without really hurting her bad... provided ofc if he was the one that is actually better
Hard to say. Did he refuse because he’s scared of getting beaten or because he’s afraid that he mighty hurt her? Plenty of women out there that can easily beat up a man. But if it is the latter, I can’t blame him, if he was raised a certain way it would be unpleasant for him to even consider having a physical fight with a woman.
He didn't want to harm a woman
@Cocacolaaddict that is what he said, of course you can’t read into his mind. For all we know maybe he didn’t want to take the risk of getting beaten. And that is a different issue.
You are correct in stating that we cannot know. His word is the only evidence we have with which to form an opinion on the topic. If you are unwilling to regard that as credible, then what is the point in speculating?
@JosephBlack I agree but that isn’t the issue here. The issue isn’t whether what he said is truthful or not. The main issue is finding the ‘correct’ approach to take when a male is pitted against a female in a professional setting, where normally gender shouldn’t affect decisions. If it is assumed that it is always a good thing for the male to back down in these situations (and let him be seen as a sort of hero), that creates a problem with where the reasons for backing down are actually fraudulent. It also creates a problem in regards to disallowing females to rank up respectfully, because I’m sure most wouldn’t be happy to rank up only because their opponent simply backed out without even giving the fight a shot. Especially where their opponent would still be the one granted laureates for his ‘chivalrous’ act. Of course we won’t know his intentions for sure and we can only speculate but speculating alone draws attention to the problem. For example, it is quite interesting to consider what the best case v worst case scenarios would be if the opponent didn’t back down.
First of all, thank you for taking the time to formulate an intelligent response. Few people on this website seem to do that.
I agree with your point and it seems I misunderstood your previous comment. I can understand the relevance of attempting to find a societal solution to this issue. It seems that this situation will become more common and it is important to weigh people's beliefs and sensitivities against fair competition. However, he claims that he forfeited to be chivalrous and I am willing to take him at his word.
There is a problem in your statement your saying there's a problem with backing down in case he loses. The problem is if he does lose he's seen as a weak pathetic loser the girl doesn't rank up herself she just downranks him if he lost everyone would just think he's a REALLY bad fighter because he lost to a girl she isn't seen as a good fighter for beating somebody stronger than her she's just an ordinary girl to everyone and he is completely emasculated by even losing. Tell me is it really worth it when losing means you lose all respect all favour credence perhaps even your career it can just destroy your entire life so what's the better thing to do smartly back down and continue fighting as normal or to risk having your entire life destroyed?
@JosephBlack I suppose we can only speculate.
P. S. I only replied to you the way I did because you decided to pick that way of speaking. Usually I refrain from writing in such a way, because some people might find it annoying. And since the point of writing, in this case, is to communicate clearly, I wouldn’t pick a writing style that is confusing or difficult to read for anyone else. I don’t personally think GaG is the sort of platform that warrants that style of writing anyway.
@Cocacolaaddict I don’t completely agree with your statement about her not ranking up if she wins. I still think most people would credit her with more respect if she did win honestly, than when she won simply because he backed down. I do think he would be shamed regardless if he won or lost, but for different reasons. But him backing down has more social implications on his female opponent, as it is basically a check-mate against her.
I don’t think his decision is stupid. Like you said, it is probably the smartest move he could have pulled. But all I’m considering are the social implications this decision has on her, and other female competitors in the long term.
Imagine training X amount of years to just to be told that your opponent won’t compete with you because you’re considered to be the weaker sex. She must’ve been fuming. Again, I’m not saying that she would’ve won, nor do I think that he was definitely lying about his reasons for backing down. But that his decision didn’t exactly benefit her, probably not in the way she’d like anyway. And whoever decided to ask him about how the opponent’s dad feels about this, and the dude blurting out that ‘oh he totally agrees with it’, is a bit of an asshole.
Yeah I see your point but nobody is going to just wreck their own life to benefit someone else she may have trained hard and she may be just as good but you can't expect someone to sacrifice their career just so you could rise
@victoriaxoxo Now you have completely lost me. Are you sure you meant to reply to me?
@Cocacolaaddict I know, I know. But my problem is more that so many people automatically assume that his reasons for backing down are so selfless.
Doesn't matter, either way regardless of whether or not he did it for religious and personal reasons, he would still be accused probably be seen as the bad guy for not being equal and being abusive. Hell, they would probably have said he sexually assaulted her if he went through with the match because it requires grips and submissions.
Can't win or please anybody with this one.
Is there a difference? Both see women as weaker and thus deserving of different treatment. But personally, I think he made the right choice. I think he would have an unfair advantage that could possibly lead to injury. Can you imagine if he fought her and she got seriously hurt? That would blow back on him in a real bad way. Better to just refuse.
I wrestled in high school and some in college. Girl wrestlers were just starting to come around. But there weren’t enough of them to compete against each other. So they usually ended up wrestling boys (on JV)
I can still remember one of the girls on my team who pinned a guy. The crowd went nuts. I applauded her. But when it was all said and done all I couldn’t help but think about how shitty, weak and pathetic the guy felt for losing to her. That’s going to stick with him for the REST of his life. Nobody is going to forget that, lest himself.
"Personal and religious convictions." He has a valid argument for why he didn't, right there. Yes, it's a show, yes it is his career, but the media and the producers have to respect his personal and religious views, even if it means the show can't go on.
I actually lost to a women in a wrestling tournament because I was scared. Its very uncomfortable as a man to wrestle a women because of how personal of an event it is. As a man thinking of all the ways you could get in trouble in that scenario is crazy, it is why mens and womens sports are separate. It has nothing to with whether a man or women would win, cause at the end of the day its a skill and knowledge based sport.
How close was it? Was it JV or varsity?
It was varsity, and there was no competition. It was my 1st year doing wrestling and my friend got me into it since i felt too small to continue doing football. She probably beat me in 30 seconds or so.
That’s shitty man. Did the crowd cheer? No chic would ever beat me but then again I’m 6ft and I wrestled 145 to 160. Most HS aren’t that big unless they are overweight
I used to compete in MMA. A female kickboxing chic once did a spinning back kick to my liver. It didn’t stop me but I was in agony. But what made me angry is that spinning kicks/punches are considered dirty moves in sparring. You are not supposed to do them unless you and your partner agree it’s okay. But since she was a girl it was “okay” for her to do it. I wasn’t hitting her hard either.
Even if it wasn't religious, what does he have to win? If he beats her then he will feel bad and for beating a girl and could be even judged by other fo going hard on her. If he looses people will make fun of him for being beaten by a girl.
So true. In some situations, there is no winning that's why we are told to follow our hearts.
Considering he would likely have smashed her. It was an act of mercy. There is a reason women dont compete in mens sports. Take what that Tranny MMA fighter did to the female mma fighter.
thelibertarianrepublic.com/.../
The fact that anyone would consider this an act of chauvinism tells us whats wrong with society. Enough of this feminazi bullshit...
It's time where equality is actually hurting women
If he was raised to believe it is wrong then he did the right thing.
He is the only person who knows what he truly believes and people should not assume they know what's in his heart.
Most men do not like seeing women get hurt. Most men want no part in hurting a women.
I'd say this was an act of a decent young man not wanting to potentially injure a woman. He's probably been taught since birth to protect women, to not hit them.
Beautiful answer
I liked your comment so much that I saved it in word document.
Aw, that's so sweet. Thank you :)
I will be using your comment for an article I am about to write.
What about?
that's a secret
Funny how the interveiwer suggest because she's ok be grappled by males that they should automatically be ok being grappled by females. This guy has a veiw on physical contact with women, he's passed up a big oppurtunity for his beliefs. Good for him. He hasn't been derogatory about his opponent, he just dosent feel comfortable being so up close and petsonal witb a girl.
In the wake of #metoo it wouldn't surprise me if more young men refuse
Neither. He said "religious convictions" that could mean he isn't allowed to touch a woman who isn't his wife, he specifically mentions he is uncomfortable touching her in those ways.
He could be both, based on your political opinion, if he said any woman is too weak to fight him. He did not say that, he said he can not touch women in those ways. He can not let women put him in a hold or put them in a hold.
The guy has honor. It wouldn't be honorable to compete in wrestling against a female.