I think it's really unfair to ask this of him. It's okay if both want to fight, but when one does not then it shouldn't be such a big deal. Why stress a young fighter who was willing to take a default and avoid putting himself in that situation.
Putting the argument of boys being stronger than girls aside. Because she has clearly earned her way there beating other boys. What does he gain for this fight? If he wins then he beat a girl, and if he loses then he got beat by a girl. I could only imagine the mocking/redicule from his peers after.
Another topic, the body contact. If he was to fight and grab her boob, ass, groin area, etc it would be accepted in fighting. Does that mean he necessarily wants her body to be the first girl he touches? Maybe he has a girlfriend, and doesn't want to touch another girl? Or maybe he is worried he could accidentally get an erections while fighting, which wouldn't happen fighting with a partner you don't find attractive. There's many issues here, so I'm not sure why everyone focused on him defaulting when it really shouldn't have been organized and stressed in the first place.
Now returning to body builds of each sex, there is a reason women and men don't compete in the same category. A woman fighting a man, has all to gain and nothing to lose. Where its the opposite for the man fighting the woman.
Personal choice, I applaud him for standing by his religious convictions.
This is chivalry. Convictions aside, wrestling between men and women is actually quite unfair, physically to the women and mentally to the men.
1. Wrestling uses holds and grips to drive your opponent into submission. Along the process, you have to find your way to seal your opponent's movement and it's not uncommon to find your hands touching places which are rather risque. It's not just once or twice that you might accidentally touch your opponent's groin or chest by mistake.
2. A woman's muscle density will never rival a man's if they belong to the same class. In wrestling, weight plays major factor in determining one's advantage over the opponent, more so than height or arm reach. Once the female wrestle is seized, it will be difficult for her to escape while the male wrestle only need to exert less effort to do the same.
3. Whether he agrees to fight or not, he will still be branded as a chauvinist. If he agreed and he fought, some people will call him a sleazy person for trying to touch a woman's body under the pretext of sportsmanship. Unlike defaulting the match, he will suffer socially and we all know people are more stressed due to social reasons than professional reasons.
Chivalry. It does not matter how trained and strong a woman is. The female build is still by nature less psychically capable and enduring in comparison to the male on. An experienced and ripped male could do serious injury to in the heat of the moment.
It's good that there are still gentlemen.
She volunteered to get hurt. Itās not his job to look out for her wellbeing. If she wants to do something, even if she gets hurt, thatās her choice. Obviously whether or not he wants to fight is his choice, but that doesnāt make him a āgentlemanā if he thinks some girl is too stupid to take care of herself. Thatās called chauvinism.
@lonelyoyster No. I profoundly disagree. Him not desiring to do harm to a woman is being a gentleman. The woman insisting on doing something risky is merely her being stubborn and conceited.
@AlexanderBrunnrgarrd
You say the woman insisting on doing something risky is merely her being stubborn and conceited. With that said anyone who has eatrn anything, taken a shower, got in a motorized vehicle, climbed a ladder etc can possibly get hurt so they are stubborn and conceited. With food you could choke on it with taking a shower you could slip and fall, with motorized vehicles you could get into an accident, with a ladder you could fall off it
@MysteriousDarkness That's a hugely false equivalence to make. The odds of slipping in the shower are astronomical compared to wrestling a muscled experienced man as a woman. You're grasping for straws.
Opinion
117Opinion
I remember being in college, a long time ago, and taking Taekwondo. Mixed gender, PE class. We did 'light' sparring, meaning you 'touch' or 'tap' rather than full-on punches and kicks with pads on.
There was this great lady in the class and we started talking because she said I look like her big brother. We were pretty good friends. The first time we did the sparring, she got paired with a football player about a foot taller, and more than double her weight. I was afraid for her, as she was my friend, and kept trying to watch, feeling a little protective, maybe. She was holding her own, and blocking, and avoiding well, and I got distracted with my own opponent, then suddenly there was a loud THUD! She had taken him down, accidentally, of course, because take-downs weren't allowed. Once we knew he was fine, several laughed.
She was really good, and fast, because of her size and often got in close, being small, and several of the 'big guys' tripped themselves up and fell. It became a joke, until none of the guys would spare with her!
We never got paired in the class, but sometimes practiced together, and I am a bigger guy, but watched her moves, and knew her 'tells' and wasn't over-confident like the others. Good fun!
I don't know why so many, today, underestimate so many women in sports, and things! Some have proven to be even better than men in many cases! Maybe this guy knew her, and was afraid she would take him, and he might be embarrassed?
I personally was raised not to touch women in inappropriate manners without their consent.
I'm religious, but I was taught manners.
It's nothing to do with feet's of gender strengths.
It has to do with boy, that chooses not to violate young ladies private spaces.
I don't see anything wrong with him, refusing.
Care and compassion are not chauvanist mentalities.
Bastardizing and over juding every thing has gotten out of control.
After all I saw an article about high school women are fighting to keep transgenders out of women track and field.
So one can not pick and choose when equality activates.
Equality is on fully or not.
This is not an restaurant menu, this is life.
Wakie wakie !
In closing, if she beats him, great,
Some women will laugh and be catty as society has seen.
Some will be compassionate and cheer for both people.
Some men will rag him and some will be kind.
If he beats her, boo , meanie.
Theirs no happy medium.
So chill, handle things respectfully, with out beating gender war drums.
Why does religion always have to be involved... Why can't a fucking non religious person be in these stories. It's bullshit.
I hats religion but I hate forcing all this gender diversity shit too. If I don't want to wrestle a girl, I'm not gonna. You can't make me. If you have a problem with that, fuck you. You are entitled to your opinion but that's it. An opinion. It does not make you right or better than me.
I used to box in middle and high school. In the summer between 9th and 10th grade this girl (we'll call her Stephanie) wanted to have a mock match with me. I knew her well. She was skilled and she was nice. But she was not going to last a minute with me. At this point I had secured 9 wins and had only 1 loss. 7 of them were knock out victories and 6 were first round victories. I refused to box her and she got mad told my coach and he laughed at her. He said and I qoute, "Rex I called the prehistoric predator for a reason. He hunts and he is good at it. Getting in the ring with you would require him to wear kid gloves. If you want to spar, that's fine, but an actual bout? Good luck getting up."
She never spoke to any of us after that and quit.
Just punch her in the tits. Just kidding.
Iāve sparred Must Thai with girls before and I always go about 50 percent. But one did dirty one time and did a spinning back to my liver. Those werenāt allowed in sparring but since she was a girl it was āokayā to do that to a guy.
After that I wasnāt so much a gentlemen and hit her much harder.
@SirRexington I can understand your point about that girl that was clearly not as good as you. Fact is men are naturally stronger than women. That being said, this is a different scenario. This girl earned her way into this tournament by beating other boys. She wasn't placed in there to show some sort of girl power.
Earning something which this girl did is different than feeling entitled to something which Stephanie did.
"It gets violent at times and you get put in compromising holds and positions and I just don't feel it's right that a boy should engage a girl in a manner like this."
Let me say, I have a ton of respect for this kid. He didn't believe it was RIGHT, and was willing to give up something he worked hard for in order to stick to those beliefs. If he'd somehow gained something from this then perhaps I'd be able to call this chauvinism, but he was completely self-sacrificial in what he did and it ended up benefitting the girl. I don't think you can rightly call that chauvinism. You can disagree with his values but that is all.
It was just common sense. He is a male, he has almost 60% greater upper body strength, 50% greater lower body strength, 25% thicker skin, substantially denser bones, greater pain tolerance etc. etc. If he screwed up and didn't put on the kid gloves (which would have made it an unfair match to begin with and given the wrong impression i. e. that women can compete against men in this type of sport) he could potentially have killed her. For example their was a female MMA fighter up against a transgender MMA fighter (who because of the hormone therapy was physically weaker then when she was a male) and she, the transgender fighter, fractured the woman's skull in a single hit. I believe it took only two strikes to bring the woman down and she had to be rushed to the hospital. Women are not men, they cannot stand up to men physically, this is not chauvinism, this is not chivalry, this is biological reality.
@hellionisthesagereborn
In MMA you get to punch, elbow, knee and kick
your opponent and you also have arm bars and rear naked choke where as in high school wrestling you do not.
@MysteriousDarkness I wrestled in highschool, I'm fully aware of what you are allowed to do and what your not allowed to do. The point I was making is that pretending like their isn't a difference between men and women is idiotically stupid as even just a glance we can see a substantial difference, and that to do so in a physical sport is asking for the woman to be severly injured. Male wrestlers can get severely injured and they are far better built to handle the forces applied to them then women are. Again, this is a simple fact of biology, suggesting otherwise is just stupidity bordering on delusional.
@hellionthesagereborn
I wrestled in high school also and there were women that wresyled for my school and other schools some were quite good technically and were strong. Should they have not been given the chance to wrestle because of not enough women over all wanting to wrestle let alone in any one school?
@MysteriousDarkness So your going to make believe that men and women are the same then? Males have larger and denser bones then women, they have nearly 60% greater upper body strength and nearly 50% greater lower body strength compared to women. They have 25% thicker skin, substantially greater muscle mass and density making them far more resilient to physical trauma as well as being far more capable of creating physical trauma. So you trying to make believe that they are the same and we should make believe that they are the same is idiotically stupid (this is why the "trans" athletes are destroying women in female sports, even on hormones that weaken them they are substantially stronger then biological women). Should they be able to play? Well here is the question, should a male be forced to compete against a woman if he knows that he could quite literally kill her with his bare hands if he doesn't hold back? The answer is no, he has every right o call out this absurd desire to ignore biological sex differences. Why you think that it would be okay for a woman to be completely destroyed by a man or for a man to make believe he is weaker then her so he doesn't hurt her (because these are the only two options), I cannot understand.
Definitely sexist, but i dont really blame the guy. He's doing what his parents told him, for the reasons they told him to do it. He cheated someone who worked really fucking hard to get to a championship out of a legitimate chance to win. If i were that girl id rather get my ass kicked by a guy who was better than me then be handed a trophy i didn't earn. Some one who REALLY respected women would respect her competitive spirit and treat her like any other opponent.
Fuck that guys parents and whatever stupid religion he's a part of.
@Blightly you think a wrestling match wouod have "hurt" her? You idiot she's been wrestling for years, thats what she had been training for!
I agree that good men dont hurt women, so listen and understand what REALLY hurts is being told you're too inferior to compete, to have someone take away your chance to earn something great and prove yourself just because of an extra hole in your crotch! Thats hurtful.
THINK!!!š
I am curious about your apparent ability to offer insight into the obscure realm of alternate realities. I find it interesting that you believe yourself to be able to state how he would have been treated and viewed if something that did not occur had occurred. Please think before you speak.
why don't you think before you speak. You have no clue what the hell you're talking about yet you're gonna act like some high and mighty know it all. Dumb fkn child, get outta your pristine world of rainbows and unicorns, people aren't invincible and just because "I have years of experience" doesn't mean a wrong twist, flex, or supporting too much weight won't cause your body to break down because you've exceeded its limit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLryZnBw7jA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOn7WxHjbXI
@Gavyn If I'm replying to the original commenter, then it does not have a @Username at the beginning of the post. I'm sure I do sound arrogant, but you should read the reply by @Sacrilege_is_hawt to which I was replying. I was making a point.
In reality it's a no win situation for a guy to compete against a woman.
"You don't want to fight her? What are you, scared that she'll beat you? Pussy."
"You want to fight a woman? Can't compete against men so you go against women who are weaker? Pussy."
"You won fighting a woman? What did you expect? Why even fight against her, you should be a man and fight other men. Pussy"
"YOU LOST AGAINST A WOMAN? Pathetic pussy."
And let's not forget if the guy accidentally touches the woman's breast or butt or whatever in the match, which can happen and have nothing to do with him trying to do that. He's then a perv or what if he get's a boner in the match and didn't meant to, as that can happen on its own too. especially for a young teenage or college aged boy.
Why would a boy wrestler a girl and vice versa? I mean of course there are ladies who CAN beat guys but for what reason? I also understand taking things to the next level and being the best at what one can do but if a guy won or REALLY beat her, it would save a lot of hate and male dominant debate. Of course women and men should be able to compete but only against things like running, swimming, bowling, etc. but wrestling and fighting and boxing MA, hell no, NEVER
However, again, I can also understand why this would be considered sexist, unfair, chivalry or chauvinism. The lady wanted to compete and got a pity win, who wants that? The guy didn't want to hit a girl. It's all just complicated and the world just sucks period
Haha this is freaking funny, why? Cause no matter what he did it would be wrong !! Cause if he fought her and won
. It's cause he was a male if he fought and lost he would be laughed at cause he was beat up by a girl.. you know high school drama that always follows you cause people can't grow up and leave that crap behind. So he does the next best thing. Sorry I can't fight you ! So she gets pissed 😡 and now all others are questioning his resolve to fight her hahah.. it's disgusting how people will jump at anything that people. Do.. my guess is let's start reporting the reporters? Let's see how they like there lives there mistakes and there everything up there to the public and let them explain. Why they said no why they said yes and why they even went home when they did...
Neither it's just his personal/religious convictions and there's nothing wrong with that.
And to be completely honest it's a unfair match up for the girl anyway, she can't and wouldn't be able to match his strength and endurance.
And for the guy it's a no win situation for him because if he did fight her and won then the media would destroy him and his reputation saying he's a sexist and chauvinist and the media and their never ending tide of followers would follow and attack him wherever he went like they do to everyone.
And if he lost then he'd be made fun of and laughed at for losing to a girl in a sport where he has every advantage.
He did the right thing by taking himself out of it altogether.
Men and women shouldn't compete against one another it never ends well men have a biological and genetic advantage over women when it comes to the physical and we are just superior when it comes to that.
I think he has that right to do what he did ,, we are tought from day one do not hit girls ,, so that is in his head next it i dont know what happens to you when ur rolling around on the floor with some dude. ,, but if rolling around on the floor with some girl and im pushing pulling he in to me they way he might have to do to beat her im afraid i would stand up and rheres going to be something new in my shorts standing up to with guys he's ready to go to war. In his off time he's a teen that likes girls and want to roll aroundvwith them for different reasons
I don't think any one should be forced to do something they don't want to do and I don't think we should judge people for not doing something because it make them uncomfortable. I can understand why he wouldn't want to wrestle a girl and I think we should respect that.
As for is the this is chivalry or chauvinism, I don't think its ether. I don't know if he could win in a mach against a girl wrestler. I understand that men are stronger and larger on average, but don, t they have weight classes to fix the problem of unequal weight and muscle.
He has every right to refuse to fight an opponent based on their gender, especially if it's due to his religious beliefs. Who knows, he could have grew up in a home where he saw his father beat his mother. And that's had a lasting affect on him. If a man isn't comfortable wrestling or punching a woman, and he refuses fight her... that's his prerogative.
My husband does MMA and boxing, and I know for a fact he'd never fight a female fighter, because of his personal views. He's broken guys arms , ribs and legs during a fight. And I know he wouldn't feel comfortable doing that to a woman.
No one has a right to accuse someone of being a coward, sexist, chauvinist etc etc just because it doesn't fit in with societies changing ways.
That guy would be crazy to give in to pressure from society to fight a female if he's against it for personal reasons. I'd never give in to bulling tactics by society. Labelling him a chauvinist or whatever is a bullying tactic.
I used to play in a mixed rugby team back in year 11. At the start of the year we had eleven girls and ten lads. At the end we had one girl and 10 lads because the girls got the crap beaten out of them - without us actually trying to hurt them. Basic tackles would nearly snap them in half, defensive shoves would break noses and even blocking play would see them falling over. We had three broken ribs by the end of the first term, with massively more injuries sustained per game - or even training session - than the gender specific teams.
When I was doing judo we had a karate school come over and do some training with us. The karate girls were used to the blokes not hitting them during training and when they did mixed martial arts matches with us, they got picked up and dumped on their arses so hard that they were in tears.
Its unfair. Its the unrelenting grind of biology, but the fat is that unless you are taking drugs, or really exceptional, women just can't fight men.
He is to be commended for his restraint and his respect for females. He will make a fine husband some day. It's too bad that the short-sighted people RUNNING the event cost him a chance at a title. But Joel put his values above a trophy, and for that he is to be congratulated.
As far as the topic of "inter-sex--wrestling", those running the event should have woman compete with women and men compete with men. No questions. Period. End of story. Those running the event have created the lose-lose-lose situation, not the male competitor.
A DNA test to determine the birth sex might be needed to prove the sex of some, but that should be the gold standard for matching the wrestlers.
The fact that this sparked a national debate is a huge red flag for the nation. Since when is a man refusing to put his hands on a woman a problem?
Please tell me how the actual fuck anything of what he did was chauvinistic. Sounds like to me people are just trying to vilify men more than they have already. People seriously need to fuck off with shit like this. This kid should not have to be the center of this kind of attention.
This just really pissed me off. If this does not make it evident what kind of shit men need to go through in modern times with women, then I do not know what will. But it needs to fucking stop.
I can bet that if a female wrestler refused to fight a male, then no one would think twice about it. If anything the man will again be vilified for being okay with fighting her.
So again, how the fuck is this a debate?
Chivalry? Are you kidding me? Fuck chivalry. Be nice to everyone or be nice to no one. That bullshits always pissed me off. And no, thatās complete chauvinism. If girls wanna fight let them fight and if youāre some kind of scumbag that thinks your interests and career should be regulated by something as insignificant as gender donāt hide your sexist ass behind a mask of moral superiority.
Itās sad that high schools are brainwashing you kids with this thought process
@westwordbound Yeah, sheās been brainwashed with the completely false ideas of
1. Both genders are entirely identical in physique, and
2. Anyone who disagrees is sexist.
She has no clue how much he would have kicked her ass in a fight just because heās a dude. I donāt exercise at all and I can overpower every woman Iāve come across. Hell, Iāve overpowered a girl twice my weight. Dudes are just stronger, and thatās the reality of it.
@Gavyn yep. Glad you are seeing this crap young. These kids didnāt spontaneously think this way on their own. Itās this liberal brainwashing crap. Itās been going on for a while too, even back in ancient history they were pushing this crap at my HS. My AP English teacher had us read not one, not two but THREE feminist novels my senior year.
@westwordbound Oof, thatās a lot. Yeah, no, Iām not a fan of liberal brainwashing. Itās been going on for longer than we think too. Ever heard āItās ok to be different,ā or āYou donāt have to change! Just be yourself! Youāre amazing just the way you are!ā in a kids show? Yeah, it seems innocent until you realize that it sounds like theyāre pushing for the LGBT community 0.0
Have you ever done any contact sport?
Iām not the most ripped guy in the world but i still merc women in my mma class that are more trained and bigger than me with ease.
If you like seeing people get flattened with just a punchers chance of winning than thatās on you.
How well do you think Rousey would do against letās say Stipe? Or Adesanya since they are in the same weight class?
@westwordbound because men are women and women are men...
Those social studies professors are the ones to blame.
@ErikKantor Iāve had 11 mma fights. Retired now, but it was fun. Brown belt in BJJ.
Iāve trained with girls and most are cool. But they will always be at huge disadvantage to guys because of simple biology. Itās just not strength either, but agility speed and reflexes.
I remember joe Rohan saying something really stupid that Rhonda Rousey could beat half the guys in the UFC in her own weight class. Bullshit. Maybe a 1 out 100 chance should could arm bar a guy if heās having a bad night. But a 99% chance she would get knocked out.
Thatās not sexist just the truth. Sheās an amazing athletic woman and was smart to market herself. But sheās not overpowering any guy in the UFC.
@westwordbound the weird thing about all this is that itās only the last few years that people seem to forget biology, or way to few of these commentators have actually done any contact sport.
Iāve experienced that women can do pretty good agains guys in BJJ because of the rule system. (No slams)
But as soon as we had mma rules it doesnāt matter how good her guard or technique is just sprawl out and lift her up, or start dropping body weight on her.
Itās just not right to put male vs female in combat sports. Itās a morbid fun entertainment tho.
@ErikKantor well you should watch the documentary āeighth placeā. Itās about a female track runner who didnāt place at state (which would of helped her with a college scholarship) because two ātransā women sprinters competed. Both these cheating douchebags took 1st and 2nd at state of course. But they āidentifyā as women so itās okay.
Itās funny how feminism, lgbt, etc are all supposed to be āintersectionalā and on the same side. But now they are destroying themselves within.
Oh did I forget to mention Fallon fox?
Anyway I hate to bring in politics buts itās nearly impossible considering how far this bullshit has gone. The good news is itās all āintersectionalyā destructive.
@westwordbound hahaha, this is just hilarious.
Iāve seen both the documentary and i know about Fallon Fox, she was pretty well mentioned on the joe rogan podcast and by bill burr at some point i believe.
And I donāt mind talking politics as long as all parties states their point with some basis in reality and not just ābecause thatās how i feel šā
Iām pretty sure we share many views on todayās society.
What do you think about Crowder, Milo, Gavin, PJW, Hoff summers and the rest of the āgangā? ;$
@ErikKantor my favorite by far is Ben Shapiro. He is just kicking their asses with hard facts. I highly recommend his podcast. The guy is genius smart, fast talking and fast thinking. He doesnāt take any shit BUT knows where the line is.
I did like Milo when he first came out. But heās just gotten so wacko. He was about being a provocateur but that was a glimmer in the pan.
Crowder seems cool. Shitty what YouTube did to him.
@westwordbound Ben was actually Crowderās lawyer and thatās how they first got acquainted so offcourse I follow his podcast.
And i agree on milo, he had this cool persona at the beginning while he did lectures and public speaking but heās been pretty silent recently.
Itās actually weird that Iām more interested in American politics than my own countryās
@ErikKantor American politics gets lots of media coverage.
I got to tell you that itās getting nuts and stupid out here. The division is insane.
@westwordbound actually high school teach you differently. Ironic that the guy who was brainwashed by society is telling me that Iāve been brainwashed. See, everyone belies the same thing you do. I grew up hearing the same bullshit about guys donāt hit girls and donāt cuss when thereās āyoung ladiesā around you and all that crap. Luckily I was born with the rare ability to think for myself and have decided that gender shouldnāt have any impact in your life. I understand thereās a physical difference between genders, Iām not an idiot, but i donāt think that means girls and guys canāt fight. She can take care of herself, she doesnāt need some guy protecting her or whatever. She understood the risks going into it. And if you guys honestly think that my opinion is the popular one thatās being pounded into our minds then youāre just fucking stupid. Say anything like gender doesnāt matter outside of physical appearance and youāll have all these spineless weak minded pieces of shit freaking out and having little bitch fits for upsetting their fragile view of reality imposed on them by stereotypes and societal norms.
What a harsh mouth you got for a 14 year old, maybe you could do some good with acting a bit more feminine..
@ErikKantor no kidding. Itās that teen angst.
At her age you know āeverythingā so in a way Iām not surprised she said that. But this crap will get even worse when she gets into college.
@westwordbound yup, and when sheās sitting there all alone at age 30 wondering why no guys want to date her she should read through her comments again.
Sheās got time.
Letās steer the criticism away from her. Itās not 3 guys against one 14 yr old girl, but more about us pointing the crap are education system is doing to her.
Like the mass media I think the western public education system will be next to be socially audited, as it should.
*our education system is doing
@ErikKantor Funny. I plan on dying before Iām 30 for one and my life doesnāt revolve around āgetting guys.ā Unless we have a real connection in which case they would agree with me, or at least not refuse to hang out with me because we have differing opinions. And please come at me with all the crap you want. I think you guys are looking at this from only one side. Iām not liberal, I donāt agree with liberal shit, I think their whole thing is about dividing humanity more than we already are through arbitrary social constructs (such as gender.) Same with conservatives, except they think white guys are superior and liberals think black women. I truly believe in equality. I donāt believe gender affects who you are, as I said before. And I grew up in a more conservative part of the nation and have never really known any of the liberalism youāre talking about. Nor do I have any interest because what I do know pisses me off. Not to mention Iām part of an extremely conservative traditional family with a dad who actually tries to make me clean up my brothers messes because ācleaning is a womanās job.ā And like girls have no worth outside of being pretty and obedient. Aside from that my sister naturally has a traditionally masculine personality and is tougher than any guy Iāve ever met. Iām pretty sure she could beat most people in a fight since when itās really boils down to it the fight is just as much about tenacity and resilience as it is about sheer physical strength. o I donāt know maybe all of that sort of makes me more extreme about the whole thing but I truly wholeheartedly and passionately believe who I am and my purpose in life is entirely removed from gender. And you really canāt argue that the idea that gender is irrelevant is a popular belief. Most of feminism revolves around āI hate menā so I donāt think itās a very liberal thing.
And Iāve already said everything about the original question. Itās not even so much about whether itās a fair fight as it is about whether sheās tough enough to take it. Like I said before, physical strength might be influenced by gender, but mental strength isnāt.
Planning to die before you are 30 seems like a āmentally strongā plan and positive thinking.
Why would you wanna go early when you are as strong and tough as you say.
Dying is easy, living is tough but youāre still alive.
Iāve had multiple friends who have complimented suicide and i have no respect for that shit.
Live your life to the fullest and be the best version of yourself.
Start by being polite, there is so much animosity in you.
Well he seems to think heād win if he really tried or something but honestly I doubt that, she made it pretty far up. Iām sure sheās wrestled boys before and honestly donāt think anyone is just going to let her win especially when itās for titles and such thatās just silly. I believe he might have been a little scared of the outcome I don't know he can make that decision though.
Than he should have done it but to me he didnāt sound so sure š
She made it and thereās nothing nobody can say thatās going to take that from her
She was awarded the title. You are correct in stating that it cannot be retracted now.
Since when do male and female wrestlers compete together? In most combat sports there is separation by both gender and weight class. I must've missed the memo on this one. That said, I think he's entitled to retain the right to veto on whom he will fight on the mats.
I liked his mention of getting in a compromising position with a girl. What guy wants to be gripping some young woman's vagina in a hold? I feel him there. I don't even get why they allowed this girl in. There should be girls' wrestling. Once again, this goes too far.
He's trying to avoid a PR nightmare. He looks bad no matter what happens. Simply getting challenged by a woman ruins your rep. You refuse to go against her, bad rep. You go against her and lose, bad rep. You go against her and win, bad rep. It's a lose/lose/lose situation, refusing to fight is usually the least taxing thing though. Since it never happened, there isn't much you can sayq
If she is already wrestling with makes and they are the same weight class why shouldn't she be allowed to? The matches are refereed. There are adults there to intervene. As for danger? You can get hurt in any sport regardless of who you are competing against. Just because you compete against your own gender does not mean you will be evenly matched. So I really don't see why she shouldn't be able to do it. And him refusing to me sounds more like sexism and closemindness
Anyone, of course, has the right to forfeit if they want. If he's citing religious reasons that's fine. But to act like she's not physically capable when she's been wrestling for awhile and obviously winning matches seems extremely sexist to me.
Did he say that she was physically incapable of winning? He made a decision. He provided the reason for his decision. That is that. It is not complicated.
Your right he didn't. I was responding more to some people's reasoning it was ok.
Question.
How many pull-ups/ push-ups can an average female do?
Answer. Not half as many as the men, know why? 75% more upper body strength.
Now, is that fair? No itās not, itās like a regular guy has to fight some juice head pumped up on testosterone and Thai Russians.
Go to YouTube and search ā skinny guy arm wrestles female bodybuilderā
I think that it's something that is dependent on the female. Would I be able to compete with a man in wrestling? No. But I have one or two friends that would probably do well. If the league allows it I don't see why you would care if you wrestled her. The guy's role is to complete. The role of figuring out who wrestles whom is the leagues.
He had the right to forfeit. I'm not disputing that, and if he's saying he wasn't comfortable with it for religious reasons that's fine. But as a competitor you don't get to choose your opponent. That's true in any sport. You compete against the person that's earned the spot to compete against you.
I wrestled in highschool, it was mixed gendered. I got a lot of this, I didn't care. I'm not gonna force anyone to do something they aren't comfortable with, that ruins the fun in it. I actually laughed when ever we versed this catholic all boys school, i already knew I wouldn't get a match lmao its nothing special, they just aren't comfortable. Plenty of other matches will happen, not a a big deal.
And its understandable. I actually got a couple matches where my opponent popped a boner. I now know the protocol for that scereio lmao
What's the protocol?
Chivalry... It has been scientifically proven that men have more testosterone then females... I'm not saying that men are better then females but the more testosterone you have the more strength and more endurance you have (i believe i haven't researched into the su ject that much so i could be wrong) while a female wrestler could beat a man she'd probably be hard pressed to beat a male wrestler especially if they are dedicated and do the same routine... I hope I'm not sounding sexist but it is my honest opinion that what the dude did is chivalrous because he might of known about the testosterone difference or have different morals where he was raised to not hit a female
I don't know what his personal reasons were. As a former wrestler, I am well aware of the degree of body contact necessary when wrestling. There is not doubt in my mind, that if I had wrestled girls, out of necessity, I would have felt her boobs a lot, and would have had my dick pressed against her, and my hand and arms between her legs. Not to be nasty, but because close body contact is necessary when wrestling, and the moves needed to win include this.
she qualified as anyone else, she knew the risks and i see no reason why someone would refuse to fight unless its judgement about the gender
he wouldn't refuse to fight a guy thats way weaker than him so weakness isn't the issue but gender
if he was afraid to hurt her he could just level out his fighting by beating her without really hurting her bad... provided ofc if he was the one that is actually better
Hard to say. Did he refuse because heās scared of getting beaten or because heās afraid that he mighty hurt her? Plenty of women out there that can easily beat up a man. But if it is the latter, I canāt blame him, if he was raised a certain way it would be unpleasant for him to even consider having a physical fight with a woman.
He didn't want to harm a woman
@Cocacolaaddict that is what he said, of course you canāt read into his mind. For all we know maybe he didnāt want to take the risk of getting beaten. And that is a different issue.
You are correct in stating that we cannot know. His word is the only evidence we have with which to form an opinion on the topic. If you are unwilling to regard that as credible, then what is the point in speculating?
@JosephBlack I agree but that isnāt the issue here. The issue isnāt whether what he said is truthful or not. The main issue is finding the ācorrectā approach to take when a male is pitted against a female in a professional setting, where normally gender shouldnāt affect decisions. If it is assumed that it is always a good thing for the male to back down in these situations (and let him be seen as a sort of hero), that creates a problem with where the reasons for backing down are actually fraudulent. It also creates a problem in regards to disallowing females to rank up respectfully, because Iām sure most wouldnāt be happy to rank up only because their opponent simply backed out without even giving the fight a shot. Especially where their opponent would still be the one granted laureates for his āchivalrousā act. Of course we wonāt know his intentions for sure and we can only speculate but speculating alone draws attention to the problem. For example, it is quite interesting to consider what the best case v worst case scenarios would be if the opponent didnāt back down.
First of all, thank you for taking the time to formulate an intelligent response. Few people on this website seem to do that.
I agree with your point and it seems I misunderstood your previous comment. I can understand the relevance of attempting to find a societal solution to this issue. It seems that this situation will become more common and it is important to weigh people's beliefs and sensitivities against fair competition. However, he claims that he forfeited to be chivalrous and I am willing to take him at his word.
There is a problem in your statement your saying there's a problem with backing down in case he loses. The problem is if he does lose he's seen as a weak pathetic loser the girl doesn't rank up herself she just downranks him if he lost everyone would just think he's a REALLY bad fighter because he lost to a girl she isn't seen as a good fighter for beating somebody stronger than her she's just an ordinary girl to everyone and he is completely emasculated by even losing. Tell me is it really worth it when losing means you lose all respect all favour credence perhaps even your career it can just destroy your entire life so what's the better thing to do smartly back down and continue fighting as normal or to risk having your entire life destroyed?
@JosephBlack I suppose we can only speculate.
P. S. I only replied to you the way I did because you decided to pick that way of speaking. Usually I refrain from writing in such a way, because some people might find it annoying. And since the point of writing, in this case, is to communicate clearly, I wouldnāt pick a writing style that is confusing or difficult to read for anyone else. I donāt personally think GaG is the sort of platform that warrants that style of writing anyway.
@Cocacolaaddict I donāt completely agree with your statement about her not ranking up if she wins. I still think most people would credit her with more respect if she did win honestly, than when she won simply because he backed down. I do think he would be shamed regardless if he won or lost, but for different reasons. But him backing down has more social implications on his female opponent, as it is basically a check-mate against her.
I donāt think his decision is stupid. Like you said, it is probably the smartest move he could have pulled. But all Iām considering are the social implications this decision has on her, and other female competitors in the long term.
Imagine training X amount of years to just to be told that your opponent wonāt compete with you because youāre considered to be the weaker sex. She mustāve been fuming. Again, Iām not saying that she wouldāve won, nor do I think that he was definitely lying about his reasons for backing down. But that his decision didnāt exactly benefit her, probably not in the way sheād like anyway. And whoever decided to ask him about how the opponentās dad feels about this, and the dude blurting out that āoh he totally agrees with itā, is a bit of an asshole.
Yeah I see your point but nobody is going to just wreck their own life to benefit someone else she may have trained hard and she may be just as good but you can't expect someone to sacrifice their career just so you could rise
@victoriaxoxo Now you have completely lost me. Are you sure you meant to reply to me?
@Cocacolaaddict I know, I know. But my problem is more that so many people automatically assume that his reasons for backing down are so selfless.
Doesn't matter, either way regardless of whether or not he did it for religious and personal reasons, he would still be accused probably be seen as the bad guy for not being equal and being abusive. Hell, they would probably have said he sexually assaulted her if he went through with the match because it requires grips and submissions.
Can't win or please anybody with this one.
Is there a difference? Both see women as weaker and thus deserving of different treatment. But personally, I think he made the right choice. I think he would have an unfair advantage that could possibly lead to injury. Can you imagine if he fought her and she got seriously hurt? That would blow back on him in a real bad way. Better to just refuse.
I wrestled in high school and some in college. Girl wrestlers were just starting to come around. But there werenāt enough of them to compete against each other. So they usually ended up wrestling boys (on JV)
I can still remember one of the girls on my team who pinned a guy. The crowd went nuts. I applauded her. But when it was all said and done all I couldnāt help but think about how shitty, weak and pathetic the guy felt for losing to her. Thatās going to stick with him for the REST of his life. Nobody is going to forget that, lest himself.
"Personal and religious convictions." He has a valid argument for why he didn't, right there. Yes, it's a show, yes it is his career, but the media and the producers have to respect his personal and religious views, even if it means the show can't go on.
I actually lost to a women in a wrestling tournament because I was scared. Its very uncomfortable as a man to wrestle a women because of how personal of an event it is. As a man thinking of all the ways you could get in trouble in that scenario is crazy, it is why mens and womens sports are separate. It has nothing to with whether a man or women would win, cause at the end of the day its a skill and knowledge based sport.
How close was it? Was it JV or varsity?
It was varsity, and there was no competition. It was my 1st year doing wrestling and my friend got me into it since i felt too small to continue doing football. She probably beat me in 30 seconds or so.
Thatās shitty man. Did the crowd cheer? No chic would ever beat me but then again Iām 6ft and I wrestled 145 to 160. Most HS arenāt that big unless they are overweight
I used to compete in MMA. A female kickboxing chic once did a spinning back kick to my liver. It didnāt stop me but I was in agony. But what made me angry is that spinning kicks/punches are considered dirty moves in sparring. You are not supposed to do them unless you and your partner agree itās okay. But since she was a girl it was āokayā for her to do it. I wasnāt hitting her hard either.
Even if it wasn't religious, what does he have to win? If he beats her then he will feel bad and for beating a girl and could be even judged by other fo going hard on her. If he looses people will make fun of him for being beaten by a girl.
Considering he would likely have smashed her. It was an act of mercy. There is a reason women dont compete in mens sports. Take what that Tranny MMA fighter did to the female mma fighter.
thelibertarianrepublic.com/.../
The fact that anyone would consider this an act of chauvinism tells us whats wrong with society. Enough of this feminazi bullshit...
If he was raised to believe it is wrong then he did the right thing.
He is the only person who knows what he truly believes and people should not assume they know what's in his heart.
Most men do not like seeing women get hurt. Most men want no part in hurting a women.
I'd say this was an act of a decent young man not wanting to potentially injure a woman. He's probably been taught since birth to protect women, to not hit them.
Aw, that's so sweet. Thank you :)
What about?
Funny how the interveiwer suggest because she's ok be grappled by males that they should automatically be ok being grappled by females. This guy has a veiw on physical contact with women, he's passed up a big oppurtunity for his beliefs. Good for him. He hasn't been derogatory about his opponent, he just dosent feel comfortable being so up close and petsonal witb a girl.
In the wake of #metoo it wouldn't surprise me if more young men refuse
Neither. He said "religious convictions" that could mean he isn't allowed to touch a woman who isn't his wife, he specifically mentions he is uncomfortable touching her in those ways.
He could be both, based on your political opinion, if he said any woman is too weak to fight him. He did not say that, he said he can not touch women in those ways. He can not let women put him in a hold or put them in a hold.
The guy has honor. It wouldn't be honorable to compete in wrestling against a female.
If he wrestles her and wins then he is a jerk for beating up a girl, if he loses then he is the wimp that lost to a girl. If he refuses to wrestle her at all then it's unfair to her. How is he supposed to win here?
Give them what they want and just merc her as fast as he can, after that he can shake his head and say ā I told you soā
If she got that far it's because she really can wrestle 🤷🏼āāļø I think it's bad to propagate that kind of thinking, it's like it widens the gap between men and women and they're just kids, meaning: they should learn how to play a sport together. I remember when I was a kid and the boys would laugh because I asked to play soccer with them and they'd tell me to go play with the girls...
Good for him. If he does not feel right about it then even if he fought he wouldn't be all in and use his full strength, so what's the point them. a guy not wanting to beat a woman is always chivalry
I have two minds about this.
He sites his conscious and his faith about why he chose to forfeit the match. Not wanting to compete against women for personal reasons is fine, but it's not chivalry It's just "sticking to his principles"
However, in many ways it feels insulting to be handed a victory because your opponent refuses to compete against you. A competition that you trained hard to attempt to win.
About his comment about feeling weird when wrestling girls, why is that?
If he wins he will be hounded for fighting a girl, and won't be seen as strong. If he loses he will be laughed at for losing to a girl.
Why don't girls get this? If a women hits me and I hit her back no one will care that she through the first punch they will ownly care that I hit a girl. Now girls want to fight guys in a actual match and expect to be treated equally? What is wrong with them? Go compete with your own sex, until you all fully decide to be treated no differently then men, because you can't have it both ways.
@nathanp97 I get the societal problems that come with fighting a girl, and to honest. I think it's bullshit.
If a woman hits you and you hit back, that's called defending yourself, nothing more.
Also, when a girl, or woman, chooses to compete in s co-ed sport like wrestling. She is choosing to be considered equal. It sounds like you're letting your expectations about society color your actions and blaming women on those expectations.
We also don't know her side of the story.
She may be, but the other women watching didn't. I don't want to be criticized if I win and if I loose. Besides I might get in trouble for sexual assault if my hand actually touches her chest. I don't think women should be allowed to compete with men period. If men can't join female teams women shouldn't be able to join male teams.
@nathanp97 No. I CAN expect it because I chose to compete against men. I can expext other women who choose to be competing against men to feel this way because we made the choice.
With the way you explained it, it's society and the tendency to trear women as fragile that's the problem. However in this situation, the girl who won the title can be easily told that she didn't really win it because of her genitals and that's fucked up
But the men don't choose to compete with a women. Why do you ownly value the female choice? Men can't choose to compete with women so women shouldn't be able to choose to compete with men.
Just because the women chooses to compete with men and except that way of playing, doesn't mean the rest of society will. And men shouldn't have to suffer that burden. When men compete with women it is a loose loose. No one should have to go through that in a sport that should be fun.
In most cases the women will be praised for beating men. Women are praised for beating up men for cheating on them, and men would be shamed and probably beaten up by others.
@nathanp97 I hear that. That is something to discuss and we will not get anywhere by being antagonistic to each other. I say that because I was about to type something rather angry.
I'd be willing to discuss on possible solutions. I think women should be able to compete if they choose. I do think that it was a sexist thing to refuse to compete against a girl because she's a girl, though he thought he was doing the right thing. I just disagree that it was right
It isn't right or wrong to refuse to fight a girl. It was his choice to not fight her, just like it was her choice to enter. What is wrong is the sexist double standard where girls are free to play on a male team, while guys can't play on a women's team if they want to.
Why can't women just compete with other women? Are men not allowed to have anything to themselves? Girls are now even allowed in boy scouts, while men aren't allowed in girl scouts.
@nathanp97 the girl scouts and boy scouts are combining. They're going to be one organization.
Anyway. I think due to the fact that wrestling is strict on weight class it helps to mitigate the general physical strength differences between men and women. You're not going to find many women competing against heavy weights.
To my knowledge boy scouts allow women, but men can't join. Even if they are merging currently ownly girls can join boomy scouts and not the other way around.
Women have more fat, thus they way more with less muscle mass. Men also have, on average, 25% more upper body strength. If women are allowed to choose which gender they compete with so should Men. Why can't women just stick to competing with other women? I've asked this a few times and you haven't answered
@nathanp97 I have answered. In wrestling, with weight class. The gender differences are mitigated. Some other sports don't have that and that's the actual reason for men's leagues and women's leagues, supposedly.
The reason why men can't join women's leagues is also due to society seeing women as delicate and needed to be protected. Personally, if people can respectful of boundries, men and women, I very little reason let a man join a woman's league if he's competing on the same level.
@nathanp97 Wrestling doesn't have that because of the weight class and we're talking about weight class differences of 4 lbs.
Besides, you are only doing what about this what about that. That's not debate
Because you don't seem to understand that they are the same dam thing. Men have, on average, 25% more upper body strength and women tend to have more fat on them. Meaning they weigh more and aren't as strong. Not things that aid in wrestling.
You keep seeming to dodge the sexist double standard that allows women to choose to compete with men, but not the other way around. I don't want to ever seriously compete with women because it is a loose loose. Even in PE in highschool it sucks. Why can't women just stick to their one league? Why do they feel they are entitled to play in a man's league?
Can you actually answer the questions instead of dodging them this time?
@Gavyn Could you do the same thing to men? It brings up the idea of skill being the dominant factor in wrestling.
I know these guys are "Pro wrestlers" but they do have legit wrestling backgrounds.
One time, Brock Lesnar was warming up and wrestling people in the ring, then Kurt Angle, who won Olympic gold in Free Style wrestling came down and went "You, against me" Brock is like 280 and jacked up where as Kurt is like 230, Kurt handed Brock his own ass in the ring.
@nathanp97 Look them up, they're both did legit wrestling.
I do wrestle and have been in combat sports all my life, and Iām sorry to tell you that i flatten much bigger girls than myself, their technique might be better but it doesnāt matter when you can muscle through their defense.
And donāt take this as an attack, but comparing fake wrestling to real combat no matter if they got a real background is just wrong. Itās not the same.
But hell, maybe we should start a male vs female mma corporation. I would definitely watch it, but it would feel like a snuff film.
Neither, It was self protection on his part, if he had fought her and seriously injured her he would have been pilloried.
Mind you if the female wrestler was one of those raving feminists who insist that men and women are physically identical, I'd have loved to seen the match with him fighting her to a stand still without making a single offensive move.
How recent is this because i live in Iowa and i don't remember hearing this.
He forfeited the match. Let's address something first. Both athletes were competing at the state level that's a hell of an accomplishment in itself. And the fact that he forfeited it after the work it rook ti get there shows it wadn't an easy decision.
He talked to the young laddies father and her father supported his decision. I'd say since the two parties hold no animosity about it neither should we.
I think he should have the right to refuse to wrestle someone of the opposite sex without giving a reason. It's a little different than say playing basketball together.
chauvinism. When a woman would want to spar with me i would never say no. some womens skill level will surprise you, and even if they were not that great i would never talk them out of a way to gain experience. In my opinion the only way to get better is by constantly fighting those who are better than you and fighting those who have different fighting styles
You..
Why is this even a question? He refused out of respect. He refused because he doesn't want to hit girls. Imagine, if he didn't refuse, people would have then shamed him for fighting with a girl. I guess in this sort of situation, there is no winning.
Imagine the girl filing a police case against him after losing the match? Women only talk about gender equality when it benefits them. They are girls who compete against boys but start crying when they lose. One woman broke her arm during a play fight with her husband and then became upset even though she started the play fight. If women to be treated like ladies then behave like ladies if they will behave like men then take it like men.
Itās just an act of fairness. Girls and boys arenāt physically the same and a girl could get really hurt trying to challenge a guy. Pretty much all sorts have separate leagues for men and women for this very reason.
Well no it's he's own personally choice, if it was the other way around everyone would say yeah of course you don't have to wrestle with the boys but since it's the other way around sexist.
Also wrestling is no joke and since men are on average much stronger she could get hurt.
I would still think it was sexist. Especially if it was in a field where men werenāt traditionally accepted.
um he did the right thing y'all can't act like women are equal to men physically when on average men biologically are much stronger than women lol obv there are exceptions but I'm talking about the average he totally did the right thing good for him for being a polite person because obv if they did fight it won't be fair and I can predict he'll win.
It remind me of s scène of Deadpool when he was about to shoot a woman then he acted confused and was like : ugh!!! What should I do? Is it sexist if I kill you or even more sexist if I donāt? 😂
Damn thats a tight spot, I think he should have done it. Defeated her and perhaps let these fools know that it was a stupid move. You see all these movies with badass female characters kicking like 10 guys asses, its simply not that way. Its clearly leaking into reality
He's in the right because if he won, tehn he would face flak for "beating a woman." If he lost, then he would face flak for throwing the match. At some point, she'd complain he touched her boob. It's a lose / lose. He took the right way out.
I'm waiting for the #metoo story that starts, "this guy didn't wrestle me."
This is not a girl that was granted a place there for some sort of gender equivalency movement. This girl beat boys to get into this tournament. She earned her way there and she deserves the right to compete.
I donāt think itās either chauvinism or chivalry. Why does everything have to have a label? Itās his convictions, because of how his parents raised him. They raised him to not be aggressive towards girls. The end.
I mean heās in a tough place. If he wrestles against her and if he won, what would the media think of him? The guy who beat a women up in wrestling? However, if he backs away from wrestling, what would the media think? The guy who is sexist not willing to wrestling against a women?
Yes but there are already female wrestlers. And they are already wrestling males so if he hadn't said anything would anyone even know about?
They are afraid their friends would mock them if they lose the match against a girl.
Could have been a few things. Such as he didn't want to get beat by a girl. Or maybe he might get turned on by rolling on a Matt framing and touching a female body. or possibly he is a womanizer and he dosemt want anyone to know he gets a thrill out of hurting girls/women on a physical level
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