Austria Will Ban Niqab In Public

[LittleSally]

In public spaces such as schools or courts.

It has also been considering decreasing or maybe eventually banning all religious symbolism in public arenas and areas.

Freedoms of speech is one thing, freedoms of expression also...but maybe religious symbolism should be banned in public - for your own physical self protection and to avoid being discriminated against due to your religious beliefs.

What they've said about this symbolic step: "We are committed to an open society, which also presupposes open communication. A full-face veil in public places stands in its way and will therefore be banned."

France and Belgium introduced a burqa ban in 2011, while the UK does not ban burqa nor the niquab.

Source: https://www.BBC.com/news/world-europe-38808495

[ElissaDido]

Niqab/face cover is not even an Islamic requirement.
It's an Arabian tradition predating Islam, even some women from Arab Jewish tribes (like in Yemen) wore/wear them.
It's already illegal in some Muslim majority countries. And as a Muslim I don't find it unfounded to ban it especially in a non Muslim majority country and this opinion I is also held by many Muslims.

[LittleSally]

Nice, yup, good point.

[Jan1ssary_]

Thats nice, honestly fuck burkas/hijabs/niqabs or some shit. Who knows if they are hiding bombs under these clothes? Or anything else? I am Muslim but I don't support them ever and never will. This shit has nothing to do with religion, and not necessary at all.

[ElissaDido]

Niqab and Burkas are not part of Islam, but regarding Hijabs I would disagree with you :p

[Jan1ssary_]

@ElissaDido I don't know Miss 😎 I don't think god would force women to cover their hair and if they don't punish them. God created humans with loving them I don't think he will punish women who don't cover their hair, I know there are some informations about it in Quran but since a lot of years passed on it and it was translated for many times, I think there might be some mistakes. For me wearing hijab isn't compulsory but it was an "advice" for women to protect theirselves by stranger males.

[RichardWilson]

I don't see a problem with it. In some Muslim countries even non Muslim female tourists have to abide by Islamic dress code. So if Muslim countries can have a dress code, than other countries also have the right to have their dress code.

Hell, even Morocco wants to ban the burqa for security reasons.

[cipher42]

"If they can do it we can too" is a shitty argument. If other countries commit human rights violations, should we be allowed to do the same? I sure hope the answer is no.

[FroggyDoggy96]

@cipher42 Finally, someone with critical thinking.

[Blitzkrieger]

Belgium and france have not only banned burqas. They have banned all face veils for everyone. Religious or not. Its not about burqas its about not being allowed to make your unrecognizable.

[LittleSally]

Yeah, that's right.

[lumos]

"Freedoms of speech is one thing, freedoms of expression also... but maybe religious symbolism should be banned in public - for your own physical self protection and to avoid being discriminated against due to your religious beliefs."

That's like telling a bullied kid at school that they should cover their freckles with makeup. That they should stop wearing glasses and use contacts instead. That they should straighten their big, curly hair. That they should buy more expensive clothes. That they should get plastic surgery. Just so that they can avoid getting bullied.
As far as I'm concerned, nobody should have to correct themselves; what they look like/what they wear etc just to please others. Just to avoid being the target. That is condoning discrimination and putting the blame on the victim, not the discriminator. Is that really the sort of society we want to live in?

[curiousnorway]

I thinks people should be allowed to wear what they wants to in their spare time. Just because I'm disagree with their clothing style, culture and opinions doesn't mean it bothering me what they wears. If a person feels comfortable with e. g. cosplaying, I'm fine with that. Same with religious outfits. But in some jobs and schools I thinks dressing codes is fine. (With dress codes/rules, I doesn't necessary mean uniforms) But the government deciding what people wears at their spare time removes a bit of their freedom and I'm a bit skeptical to that. I don't want rest of the world to adapt dress code laws like many Middle-eastern countries. Doesn't matter you wears a cross, hijab or a "blanket" at your spare time? It's fine.

[TripleAce]

Makes sense, when you go into someone else's house you abide by their rules, if they don't like it they can stay in an all islamic country and be as islamic as they like but when you go into a different culture... you should assimilate to a certain extent

All I ever hear from Muslims is that everyone else is wrong and their shit is right... they make zero effort to expand their horizon to what else the world has to offer

[sovetskii13]

There are too many dumb rules in today's world. Can't do anything without running into some kind of conflict along the way. No more freedom of speech, and at some point no freedom at all. We will be getting criticized for everything we do.
- You write too many myTakes. Give other users a chance.

[YaBaba]

Right? The no freedom at all part is worrisome.

[cipher42]

Even freedoms would run into other freedoms if they were all unlimited. In this case I'm kind of on the fence as to whether this is justified (I kind of lean towards no because it does seem like a rule inspired by islamophobia) but regardless I think hyping up freedom as the ultimate good is silly and a bit short sighted.

[LoveHorses]

Good for them. I'm not a big fan of religion of any kind.

[FroggyDoggy96]

Yup, fuck their rights.

[LoveHorses]

@FroggyDoggy96 I agree, religion is just a cult

[FroggyDoggy96]

yeah, we should just call anything we disagree with words like "cult", and then proceed to take away their fucking rights. Fuck them, especially because they are women. We men will tell them how to dress.

[Coffeevibes788]

@FroggyDoggy96 you guys are make me disgust

[Turkish_Delight]

Eh, I cannot distinguish between ninjas and Nikab/Burka wearing women... A shot from Iran 😂
www.haberiyakala.com/.../...si_66t2kIz1Z7nqnoJ.png
P. s. It's such a convenient costume for terrorists...

[Valkyrie1]

To protect to from discrimination we discriminate against you! That logic doesn't sound very logical...
😒

[LittleSally]

It's not discrimination - it's protection by not revealing your religion in public...
The state of the world today - this is a smarter decision - in my own opinion. Especially if there are many violent haters out there.

[msg812]

If a hater harm a muslim woman because of her appearance the state must punish this idiot hater to protect the woman. In that way all haters would know how badly they will be punished, if they do something wrong. The real protection is that. It is not banning freedom.

[LittleSally]

@msg812 that's a good point, but mostly those people are never caught... and that's why this is happening.

[msg812]

I don't think a few idiots are too hard to catch. They are never caught because the government doesn't want to catch them. In addition protection is just an excuse to ban islamic symbols. They ban it because they don't want to see symbols about islam. That's my opinion.

[LittleSally]

@msg812 Possible. But they're banning symbols of other religions, just starting with this one --- maybe because this religion is the most controversial nowadays.

[msg812]

Which symbols are they banning about other religions? Can you give me some examples? I don't think other bans will be serios and annoy non-muslims. In my opinion they are just saying "we will ban other religious symbols" to hide their own intention.

[Valkyrie1]

If they are FORCING people not to wear symbols of their faith is discrimination. If they want to not wear it for safety reasons that is their own wise personal choice. Doing this very well may enable the harassers. Should we ban short skirts whenever a lot of girls get raped? What message does that send? Rape is okay so long as she is wearing a skirt? It isn't the Niqab's fault anymore than it is the skirt's. I'm not a fan of religion but this is not okay.

[Valkyrie1]

It does not get rid of the prejudice but only hides it away and pretend it isn't there.

[msg812]

Your example about mini skirt and rape was great. I loved your point.

[Valkyrie1]

@msg812 Thank you. It was the most accurate example I could think of.

[BrittBratt2416]

Discrimination at its finest.. I'm Christian. Next they'll start telling use we can't say "Jesus" in public or wear a cross. If you don't stand up for them who's gonna stand up for you? I'm sick of this "every Muslim must be a terrorist" mentality.

[BrittBratt2416]

No ones going to tell what i can and cannot wear, no ones going to tell me where i can and cannot pray, no ones going to tell me to hide my faith in God.

[FroggyDoggy96]

Thank you.

[oddwaffle]

If they allowed hidden face ninjas running around in. public places then there would be a problem.

Imagine, a legion of Guy Fawkes hanging around in public. Or maybe masked face anarchists with molotovs. Gunmen with hidden faces shooting people.

[FroggyDoggy96]

Except that these are not hidden face ninjas, but "free" women practicing the religion they believe in.

[oddwaffle]

@FroggyDoggy96

Are you going to believe that some Ninjas tell them their religion of Hidden Hand requires them to wear face masks, shuriken, katanas and probably grenades in public? Or maybe the Anonymous Legion with a Guy Fawkes mask tells you their new religion allows them to be 'anonymous' with the mask. Or maybe, some dude with a bomb just want to pretend to be a religious woman?

A lot of religions have ridiculous rules. Just because a religion allows or encourages the husband to beat his wife and control her (and she somehow agrees to it because she didn't know any other religion) doesn't mean you should let them be.

[FroggyDoggy96]

We're not gonna discuss hypotheticals here. If a woman chooses to practice her religion by wearing a veil, it's none of your business, and you should very well let them be. This is like Christians banning tattoos for a country they rule over. The west, which should remain non-religious in law, has no business in enforcing how religious dress may be worn for any of it's citizens.

[oddwaffle]

@FroggyDoggy96

Not if it has security issues. There are also symbolic and practical issues.

How do I identify you if you don't take off your mask? How do I know that your driver license is real if you don't take off your mask in the photo or in front of me when I need to identify you? How do the bank knows that you aren't a robber who are using someone else's debit at the ATM?

Can you trust a person who is taking an oath without taking off their mask? Can you trust a person without ever seeing their face in a day to day basis?

[FroggyDoggy96]

In those instances, the veil may be removed. Other than that, the government should not have a say.

[oddwaffle]

@FroggyDoggy96
So which instance when the veil, mask or hood shouldn't be removed? Walking along the street? As soon as you enter a store or 'private' area then it becomes a security issue. Robbers wear the same thing. Stores are getting robbed daily when they aren't wearing veil, now they have in on them by 'religious preference'. Should I put a sign 'no face mask'? I would loose business that way!

What about government area like city hall and such? CCTV camera won't work because you can not prove who is underneath. Tax money is going to be spent on a guard at the door with camera, tags and a camera to stop and unmask people. Are you going to pay for that? Cause I don't want to. Tax money should be put into something more useful.

[FroggyDoggy96]

Common sense goes a long way you know. A veiled Islamic women looks far different than your typical robber (who often is a male - and I say that as someone opposed to this new wave of feminism - with a ski mask/bandana over the mouth).

[oddwaffle]

@FroggyDoggy96

Common sense say "don't trust ninja faces people in giant robe because you can not tell who is underneath"

Not going to risk my life, my family and my business on a "maybe". How can you tell, they all wear masks and there is this robe they wear to conceal the body shape. Are you even sure that's a woman underneath the robe?

[FroggyDoggy96]

I knew from the start of this dialogue I wouldn't be able to help change your mind. Often people who hold views such as yours will not shift their position in any case and will scrape the bottom of the barrel for any possible argument. Although I think you're just paranoid, or at least pretending fear to take away the rights of Muslim women to dress as they please, I'm gonna end my side of this discussion. I've made my side clear, and you've made yours clear. I'm just glad that despite the fact that my country is a shithole in many ways (America), we at least protect a woman's right to dress as she wants.

[abundantlyrich]

It may be a good thing to promote no head dress that totally conceals their face. They are living in a western european country that isn't islamic run.

[Maypai]

People should be able to wear what they want. Covering YOUR face is NOT effecting someone else. Some people just need to have control of others lives.

[SnowHearth]

Anyone who cover their face can be considered a threat.

[FroggyDoggy96]

The same can be said for people who don't cover their face. Unless there is ample evidence that women in these countries have been using this style of dress to avoid being held accountable for crimes, this is wrong. You should be ashamed of yourself for not defending a fellow woman's right to dress as she pleases. Never mind, i've given up hope on bitches like you.

[SnowHearth]

@FroggyDoggy96 good you've given up, because this bitch got 2 PhDs at age 23, and can kick a special forces ass as it were a puny leaf.

[FroggyDoggy96]

Irrelevant. You're referring to physical and mental prowess, I'm referring to ethics and morals. Something which you are a complete dunce in.

[SnowHearth]

@FroggyDoggy96 you're right, because since child I was raised to be a killing machine, a weapon; not a human being with emotions, morals, ethics and feelings...

[FroggyDoggy96]

Another attempt to sway the topic from women's rights. Please leave me alone troll.

[SnowHearth]

@FroggyDoggy96 you're the troll who wanted to play with fire and now is blaming the fire for getting you burned, go cry somewhere else.

[Omar5881]

I completely agree with their decision, niqab ain't Islamic and it ain't safe I mean a theif can wear it and you won't know if he is even a man I think muslim scholars should teach people more tgat niqab is a tradition rather than a relgious thing

[Hollywood-Glam]

To be honest, the burka scares me a bit, but that doesn't have to with anything. As much as I think there should be freedom to wear whatever we want, I think these women should show their faces for social security reasons.

[curiousnorway]

You've a good point. But I thinks it should depend more on the situation. In their spare time they should be allowed to wear whatever they wants to. In certain jobs and schools having some dress codes isn't a stupid idea.

[Hollywood-Glam]

@curiousnorway Agreed

[FroggyDoggy96]

Unless there is evidence to show that women have used the veils to break the law, you are being just as discriminatory as the people who wouldn't allow transgenders to use the bathroom they please.

[Hihikinn]

by the way do thise muslim women have rights to choose not to wear niqab without judging or death threats from their family and society?

[FroggyDoggy96]

yes.

[lime_rampljuset]

Burka and Niqab were originally used to protect face from the conditions of the desert, since there is no reasons to use them in Europe I don't see any problem with the ban...

[JayGarrick]

I feel sorry for people whose beliefs are challenged by the government that they are under. However, people are scared and they are just acting in accordance to their fears

[IceCubedude]

about time already the west starts having some balls