Time To End Knife Crime

[Penelope_]

Everyday in the news there’s a new story about knife crime, someone being stabbed, someone being murdered, time to end it.

Last month Eastenders, which is a British Soap Opera featured a storyline about knife crime. It showed 2 young boys who were about 16 years old, getting stabbed, they were stabbed because one stole a bike. The boys were named Shaki and Keegan, Keegan stole the bike from a group of teenage boys. Shaki, realising the boys were after Keegan tried to help him return the bike. Sadly they were too late and the group of boys stabbed both of them. Keegan survived but Shaki died. Today was the date of his funeral and Eastenders brought in real people who have been in situations where their sons, brothers, grandsons and so on have died because of knife crime. It really showed that this is happening and it’s getting worse.

A lot of people who don’t live in rural areas or where gangs are around thought it was ridiculous. They thought there would be no way someone would kill someone for a bike, but that is where they are wrong. It’s NOT about the bike it’s about RESPECT. If a gang or someone involved in that lifestyle feels like you disrespected them they say they need to teach you a lesson and they do, this results in stabbings, shootings, violence and even death.

It’s sad to think we as humans can so easily take someone’s life away from them in a split second. Over the years this has only gotten worse, more and more people using a knife to solve their problems.

Knife crime in the UK rose by 22% last year. In 2017, 61 people were stabbed to death and there have already been 1,200 stabbings so far in 2018, and at least 50 fatalities.

Kids as young as 11 are in gangs and will happily stab someone to prove their loyalty to a gang.

When someone picks up a knife they are not only ruining their life and the victims life they are ruining their family’s lives and their friends and all the people around them. It was absolutely heartbreaking hearing the parents of these young kids talking about how their precious children have had their lives taken away from them.

Knife crime needs to end this is only getting worse and more and more innocent people are getting hurt and losing their lives and for what? Respect? Is this what kids and teenagers should learn? Pick up a knife when something goes wrong?

And with this being said I hope more people learn from this powerful episode and say no to knife crime. It needs to end.

#EndKnifeCrime

#LivesNotKnives

Here is a support line please call it if you or someone you know has been a victim of knife crime, they offer support and their support is confidential.

Please call 0808 16 89 111

[Anonymous]

This is a heartbreaking reality that Britain really just hasn't brought into the limelight, and although something needs to be changed it is unfortunately much easier to gain access to knives, as they hold so many purposes in our society. However I do think that we should be imposing stricter rules about purchasing knives online, and make more of an effort to block the selling of knives illegally. Right now however, awareness is key, so that people can bring it forward as a real issue.

[Penelope_]

I agree

[Wowgirl10q]

A good criminal or gun Smith can trick out any rifle it's done daily already. Guns are illegal in Mexico that's all I'll say...

[Anonymous]

interesting mytake

[Penelope_]

Thank you! Some people are being rude about it sadly

[Wowgirl10q]

what did you expect? Bringing up political issues?

[Penelope_]

@Wowgirl10q political? I’m guessing you’re from America

[Hapinus]

We should try to end all types of crime ☺️
Great mytake!

[Hapinus]

Thank you

[SpiderManFan2002]

Couldn't agree more.

[EpicDweeb]

As much as I sincerely appreciate the idealism... it's nothing more than that. People all throughout history have hurt and killed each other. Whether with guns, bows, spears, swords, knives, rocks or even their bare hands. No matter what level of technology we are limited to we humans always find a way to commit acts of violence, to kill and maim each other. Whether it be laws restricting guns or knives, there will never be peace simply through law.

People will almost always act out of self preservation. The more dangerous something is, the less likely they are to do it. That's why I think things such as self defense ought to be a standard in most schools. You can argue it's not good to teach violence, but the point is simple. The more dangerous it is to attack someone the less likely people are to do it. If everyone is able to defend themselves from an attacker, there will be far fewer attackers, it's not worth the risk. Rather than teach people not to use weapons or to avoid danger, we ought to teach them how to be safe so that what was once dangerous is no longer considered such.

[hellionthesagereborn]

So you ban guns and claim that worked really well, so well in fact that now your country is debating banning knives because knife crimes went up (along with acid attacks) to compensate for the loss of guns. This should be a wake up call to the UK and ever where else that bans don't work and that its people who are the problem not inanimate objects. However to discuss the actual topic of knife crimes, you combat it like you combat all other crimes. The fact is crime has been steadily dropping for over a hundred years. In fact you are in the safest time period in all of history. That's not an exaggeration, you are now safer then any human being has ever been since the very first human being walked the earth and the data shows this. Your likely hood of dying from violence is lower then your likely hood of dying from lightning, historically your likelihood of dying from violence could have been as high as 90%(based upon our data on hunter gatherer tribes). So the real question isn't about violence how to stop it etc (no matter what we do their will always be some violence), its why does it seem so very prevalent when all data shows the EXACT OPPOSITE? Well, news. They don't get viewers and thus money if they report that everything is fine, you will not tune in to hear about how today was like every other day, boring and uneventful. So they need violence, they need you to be afraid so you keep coming back to them so that they can keep making money. Their is no epidemic of knife crimes or crime in general, its merely perception, and as long as you play into it they will continue to drum it up and make it out to be as if its rampant through your cities and countries because it makes them money to keep you in a heightened state of tension.

[goaded]

You're quite a lot more likely to die from violence than lightning.

In 2014, 25 people were killed by lightning in the US, and 17,250 were murdered, about two-thirds using firearms.
en.wikipedia.org/.../List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
https://www.livescience.com/3780-odds-dying.html

I agree you shouldn't live in fear of being murdered just because you hear of every murder, but an epidemic of Measles today is still an epidemic, even if it kills many fewer people than it would have before vaccination.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@goaded Yeah, the difference in lightning is minor. Your number is off as well when it comes to gun deaths in the united states, as well as the fact that you intentionally neglected to mention the population size. I apologize, I meant to say your odds of being struck by lightning, which is roughly 370 reported, they estimate that its higher however (as they estimate about 70 people die a year from lightning but only about 30-40 are reported). That said as I was saying, gun deaths through violence are actually about 11,000 not sure how you got the 17,000 most usually go for the over 30,000 sited deaths which is (intentionally) misleading as 61% of those are suicides and 4% are accidents (which is where you get the 11,000). Out of the 11,000 almost 10,000 of those are black on black which itself is usually motivated by gangs (which could readily be resolved by removing welfare that encourages fatherlessness) so outside of those groups the death toll is actually only about 1,000.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@goaded Then when you factor in that we are talking about a population, in the US, of 325,000,000 suggesting that 11,000 people killed by guns, which is a probability of.003% chance of being shot, is an epidemic is not just insane, its embarrassingly stupid too. This, again, also ignores the fact that almost all of those deaths are located within one group and we have a solution to the problem but are not allowed to say it because of PC reasons i. e. any criticism directed at non whites is some how racist, questioning the efficacy of welfare programs is "class warfare" etc, which itself would reduce that percentage down even lower. So no, their is no epidemic, no its not particularly likely to occur, death through violence is again, insanely rare in this day and age and yes this is the safest time we have ever had in the entire existence of humanity and no your not going to get your utopian world and any attempts to force it will only lead to more problems hence

[hellionthesagereborn]

@goaded the country that was so convinced that guns where evil that they banned them convinced it would make the world a violence free utopia only to now have talk of banning knives so that they can get their violence free utopia (as the first measure they implemented had no affect on over all violence). Its a stupid notion, you don't fix problems that way, don't know how many times these policies will have to fail before you guys start figuring this out.

[goaded]

I got 17,250 from the source I linked to, and 11,000 is about 2/3 of that, like I said.

You're still more likely to die from violence in the US, than being hit by lightning. (The rate doesn't matter, since we're talking about the US and comparing numbers in the US.)

discovertheodds.com/.../
"Average Annual Reported U. S. Lightning Deaths and Injures, 2001-2010: 280"

Nobody's saying there's an epidemic of gun violence in the US, it's clearly endemic.

Your claim that 90% of gun violence is "black on black" smells like complete bullshit, not to mention the implication that their lives don't count.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@goaded I had just woken up, I didn't realize you said all deaths, I thought you where specifically reffering to gun deaths, hence the talk about guns. But again, point still stands. Also claiming its "endemic" is extreme hyperbole bordering on complete and total bullshit. Again, our rates are comparable once you factor in that its primarily black on black violence. As for black on black gun violence:
americanfreepress.net/.../
readersupportednews.org/.../15440-the-other-gun-deaths-black-on-black-gun-deaths-in-the-inner-city
www.brookings.edu/.../

[hellionthesagereborn]

@goaded So as I stated that is in fact the case. I also pointed out that the source of the problem was primarily fatherlessness which people like yourself absolutely refuse to let us deal with because you run and scream "racism" every fucking time some one points out that a community is responsible for their actions and they need to fix the problems they are creating, as long as the some one isn't white. At no point did I suggest their lives didn't matter, in fact I pointed out what the solution to the problem was to show that knives are not the problem, guns are not the problem, not being held accountable for ones actions is the problem, not having fathers in the home is the problem so bitching about the weapons does not stop crime, it allows it to propagate because you ignore the actual problem. Now I've tried to be very reasonable with you and others. But your not getting it.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@goaded Its not getting through your head because your far far to engrossed with jerking yourself off to your delusions of moral grandeur. So let me try to make this as perfectly clear as humanely possible so we don't have this incident ever again. DO NOT SUGGEST THAT I AM CLAIMING THAT A PERSONS LIFE DOES NOT MATTER. Are you reading this? Is it sinking into your head? DON'T YOU EVER ACCUSE ME OF RACISM OR OF TRIVILIASING THE DEATH OF OTHERS EVER FUCKING AGAIN YOU WORTHLESS FUCKING CUNT! I'm not playing that game with you you fucking piece of shit. I pointed out what the source of all of these problems are, I provided a solution. You scream racism, I explain why its important to be accountable for ones actions, you scream that every one else who doesn't agree with you is racist and evil and a Nazi and a worthless piece of shit, I point to cultural behaviors that are the source of the problem. You demand that we treat others like their children, as long as they have a skin complexion

[hellionthesagereborn]

@goaded that isn't white, I state we need to hold every one to the same standard. You scream about banning inanimate objects, I point out that its social issues and behavior that are the source of the problem. You demand a perfect world, I point out that its an impossibility so we should accept that a perfect world cannot be created by imperfect beings. Guess which one of us is actually thinking? Not you. Guess which one of us actually gives a fuck? NOT FUCKING YOU. So don't you ever pull that "racism" bullshit with me, don't suggest it (and yes you worthless fucking piece of shit, you most certainly did so fucking own it. At least you can act like you have a fucking pair and do that much.) don't allude to it, don't fucking insinuate, or hint at it. I'd explain why that was the most fucking idiotically stupid thing you could say on a personal level (I think I showed why it was intellectually dishonest (dishonest or just you acting like a piece of shit so you can morally grand stand)),

[hellionthesagereborn]

@goaded but lets be honest, it would be a waste of my time because you and I both know that what you claimed was not true, you just wanted to make believe that you where morally superior. Fuck off you piece of shit and don't you ever accuse me of something like that again.

[goaded]

"our rates are comparable once you factor in that its primarily black on black violence"
But they are black *Americans*. How does it help to just ignore more than two 9/11s a year?

(By the way, the americanfreepress link says nearly 10k black-on-black murders a year, that would come out of the 17k nationally, not the 11k gun murders.)

I think you are right about it being a societal problem, but do you think you can impose a sense of community from outside, or by force? Your proposed solution of "removing welfare that encourages fatherlessness" is just taking support from that community, particularly the women and children. (Putting fathers in prison for minor drug offences also encourages fatherlessness.)

Their society is part of your society.

The problem areas need decently funded police and schools providing a good education to all ages that want one, preferably staffed by people from the community, or from similar ones, who understand the problem.

Which of us is shouting?

[hellionthesagereborn]

@goaded Fuck off. As I pointed out the gun violence is miniscule violence itself is miniscule and its comparable when you factor in that we have the solution to the bulk majority of the problem. And again, as per usual you have decided to intentionally mislead with your statements. We have the THIRD LARGEST POPULATION IN THE WORLD. Let me repeat that because clearly your to fucking stupid to get it the first time around, we have the THIRD LARGEST POPULATION IN THE WORLD. So how does that affect the numbers? Well more people means more violence. That is inescapable, if you have a smaller populationas every nation in the world has except for china and india, you are going to get lower rates of incidents, its just the laws of probability. So as I have already pointed out statistically your chance of dying from violence are less then a tenth of a percent. So please stop acting like a piece of shit for once in your miserable life, and just be honest.

[hellionthesagereborn]

@goaded As for the "which of us is shouting" lets be real fucking clear, again your being a dishonest piece of shit as you usually are, I didn't "shout" until you tried to allude to me being racist. Its when you decided to go for a low blow and attack my character that I decided I had enough of your constant lying and dishonesty. You also didn't apologize for that, but then why would you, you knew exactly what you where doing, you knew it was bullshit but you said it anyway just like you know what your saying is utterly bullshit because you keep ignoring the insane difference in population sizes, just as you ignore everything else. So kindly fuck off, don't comment don't speak to me you've lost that privilege becacuse you decided to act like a cunt. You have lied in every encounter we have had, intentionally omitted permanent facts ignored data and have consistently tried to racebait and suggest that people who disagree with you are some how racist/sexist/evil/etc.

[goaded]

You might get further if you stopped making obviously incorrect statements, like:
"if you have a smaller populationas every nation in the world has except for china and india, you are going to get lower rates of incidents, its just the laws of probability"
You will get lower *numbers* of incidents, not lower rates.

China, India and the UK all have lower death rates from violence and suicide than the US.

What makes those two worse than death by disease or cancer is that the majority of people who died could have lived another lifetime, rather than naturally coming to the end of their life.

I'm not going to apologise for pointing out that you don't seem to think of poor black communities as being part of American society, or at least that making them suffer more, rather than helping them, is a solution to their problems. You don't put forward any positive solutions, just taking away money they need to feed their children. Any solution will take a generation or two.

[Compodulator]

Alright, so we've banned knives.
Now they have shivs - home-made "knives" used for stabbing, while you, dear OP, have nothing. Are you going to run away and call the cops? Sure, probably. I'd do the same. What if there are no cops, though? What if they're too far away? Anything beyond a minute is too far.
This comes with another unexpected side effect - no kitchen knives.
"Fine," you say crossing your arms "I'll spread butter on my toast with a stick! And I'll cut the salami for sandwiches with... uh... HACKSAW!"
And then someone gouges an eye out with a fork at a bar. Next thing to ban - forks. They do have those pointy ends, after all. So now you can't eat like you're used to.
"Fine," you say crossing your arms "I'll learn to use spoons for everything, then."
Still, we humans are creative murder machines and someone, somehow, somewhere dies by spoon. Spoons are banned too. What's next? Chopsticks? Banned because someone lodged a chopstick into someone's nose. Hands? Banned after a boxing incident.
I kinda forgot how that story goes, but it's something along the lines of "if you give a mouse a biscuit, soon you'll find it with your wife."

[Charlotte_May]

this guy for MP

[taleswapper]

Oh for the love of... Grow up! Stop looking at inanimate objects, and start addressing the REAL problems!
First it was guns. Now it's knives. Next it will be bats, and rocks, and rope. Let me give you a clue here. Humans are tool users. They are amazingly inventive and endlessly adaptable. You are NEVER going to solve the problem of violence by focusing on the tools. Because the tools are not the problem. There is ALWAYS going to be another tool. That's what those evil little primates do; they come up with new ones, or modify things, or both.

[goaded]

So, everyone should have access to nukes?

Reducing access to the tools of death decreases the number of deaths, it's very , very simple.

[taleswapper]

@goaded This is known as the "straw man" fallacy. Did I say anything about nukes? No. So stop trying to lie about my position. If you have a question, ask, don't assume.

And no, "reducing access to the tools of death" does NOT reduce the number of deaths. Just the number of deaths with that particular tool. Other tools then become more prevalent. Which is why you have a knife problem...

On a lark, my therapist asked me what I could use in his office as a weapon. We stopped at 37 different objects, and I hadn't even finished with the items in reach of his chair... He was horrified. Stabbed, bludgeoned, strangled, electrocuted, drowned, suffocated, and set on fire, all with common items within a 3-yard radius of his position. None of them were your so-called "weapons of death".

[goaded]

No, it's known as "Reductio ad absurdum", and is a perfectly valid argument. If you prefer, we could talk about machine-guns or spray canisters of sarin instead of nukes, but the point remains the same.

You are roughly twice as likely to die from a gunshot wound than a knife wound, and that doesn't even take into account that you have a better chance to avoid being injured in the first place by fighting back or running away from a knife wielder. I expect the chances of surviving a weaponless attack is even higher.

You clearly have a vivid imagination, but it should be obvious that killing someone is easier given a gun, otherwise they would never have been invented.

[taleswapper]

@goaded "No, it's known as "Reductio ad absurdum", and is a perfectly valid argument." No. Because weapons of mass destruction and personal arms are entirely different. Your counter-argument is that hurricanes are dangerous, so we should prevent rain from ever falling on crops. THAT is reductio... "Tools of death" is also a blatant emotional appeal, rather than an actual term describing tools or weapons.
"You are roughly twice as likely to die from a gunshot wound than a knife wound," which is why it's best to bring a gun to a knife fight. Taking away guns doesn't prevent knife deaths; it increases them, because knife-wielders do not fear unarmed prey, as you so aptly pointed out.

the fact that killing is easier with some tools than others does nothing to reduce homicide when you remove specific tools. Homicidal people don't even have to work harder, since their victims are also disarmed. All you really accomplish is making it messier.

[goaded]

OK, is it still a strawman if we talk about machine-guns and sarin sprays?

My point is that taking away the most effective weapons makes potential killers less effective. Sit in a hotel room with a pile of guns and you can kill dozens. Try stabbing people in public and the room is either quickly empty, or you're surrounded by a bunch of people throwing stuff at you. Start hitting people with a baseball bat, and the same thing will happen, but you're likely to kill even fewer than with a knife. Not to mention all the people taken out of circulation for a while because they were caught with a weapon.

[taleswapper]

@goaded You've never actually engaged in professional violence, have you? Take it from someone who has (20 years in the military), your understanding is badly flawed.

[goaded]

In what way? Please, explain. As a military man, are you more deadly with a loaded gun or a knife? Why does the army even have guns?

[taleswapper]

@goaded Being "deadly" has nothing to do with the tool, and everything to do with a willingness to hurt others. And the military has guns because they are the most effective tool in creating casualties and achieving a military objective.

[goaded]

You know you contradicted yourself, then, right?

The London Bridge attack in 2017; the attackers were clearly willing to hurt others. Three attackers managed to injure 48 people and kill 8: 3 by running them down, 5 by stabbing.

What would they have done with firearms?

"After the van crashed on Borough High Street, the three attackers ran to Stoney Street adjoining Borough Market, where they stabbed four people in the Boro Bistro pub. Bottles and chairs were thrown at the attackers by members of the public"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge_attack

[taleswapper]

@goaded "You know you contradicted yourself, then, right?" Only in what passes for your mind. The rest of your post supports my assertion that it's people, not tools, that are the issue.

[goaded]

https://www.BBC.co.uk/news/uk-49009486

[Outofthegrey]

Weapons are tools, the cause of violence is people. You take the tool the act merely becomes messy. And in my experience laws are deterrent devices, not means to stop the truly motivated.

The inescapable fact is, the world is a violent place and life in dangerous. We can run from that fact and be prey for those looking to exploit, or we can face that fact and be ready to stop a threat when it occurs. I for one would rather die with a weapon in my hand and a chance to protect myself than die cowering in a corner hoping that someone else will come protect me.

[Benedek38]

And here we go with the propaganda.

Knife crime will never end, because knives are just about the easiest things you can make. I can literally sharpen a piece of metal, and create a knife. What, you will require a license for angke grinders now? Rasps? Metal?

'You got a license for that oxygene there, mate?'

People who want to kill each other WILL kill each other. The crime rated in the UK are rising because of a cultural issue, and not a weapon issue.
Maybe mass immigration without cultural assimilation ain't that good of an idea.

But sure, please explain to me, why os knife crime only rising steeply in the UK, and not everywhere else?

[goaded]

If it's illegal to carry a knife or gun, you don't have to wait for them to stab or shoot someone who probably didn't want to be stabbed or shot before you arrest them.

The purpose of policing is to reduce crime. It will never eliminate it, but saving a few lives a year is a good thing.

[Benedek38]

@goaded
"If it's illegal to carry a knife or gun, you don't have to wait for them to stab or shoot someone who probably didn't want to be stabbed or shot before you arrest them."
It's a fucking knife. Do you know how easy a knife is to hide?
I can literally buy a 20 mm wide steel rod, cut 200 mm pieces off, sharpen one half, duck tape the other half, boom! Mass produced shivs. Perfect for muggings and murderings. If I have a blowtorch, I can even heat treat them. And if you want to hide it - you can just put it in your pocket. Duck tape it to your forearm. Whatever.

Do you want police officers to go around with machineguns and metal detectors on the streets of London, conducting random strip-searches?
Big brother's watching, don't forget!

"The purpose of policing is to reduce crime. It will never eliminate it, but saving a few lives a year is a good thing."
And that is why people don't like police states, where the state has an overbearing power, and sacrifices freedom for safety

[goaded]

Do you really think they're making it impossible to buy a knife?

You can just walk into a shop and buy one, if you're over a certain age (16? 18?). You have to have a reason to be carrying it around with you. Butchers with a roll of knives? No problem. Taking it home after buying it? No problem. Hanging around in a gang at night-time? Problem.

[Benedek38]

@goaded
"Do you really think they're making it impossible to buy a knife?"
There are plans to do it, yes.

"You can just walk into a shop and buy one"
Yeah. Now.
And in 10 years, you will be thinking back to the good old days, when you didn't need a kitchen knife permit to buy a blunt ceramic kitchen utensil from a designated knife shop, guarded by 5 armed police officers.

Welcome to 1984.

"You have to have a reason to be carrying it around with you."
See, that's it.
1) Why the fuck would I need a reason? I carry a knife. Get over it. If I wanted to kill you, trust me, I could without a knife. You can kill people with a fucking pencil. A KINESIO tape! even. Yes, you can. Look up Ramsay Dewey. Got a pretty bad brain fracture from a KINESIO tape handwrap.

[Benedek38]

@goaded
2) How do you TEST if I have a knife, huh? If I KNOW you test it - I just hide it in my backpack. My clothes. Strap it to my coat. Whatever.
Are you going to start putting metal detectors everywhere? Good luck with the millions of cancer patients due to the radiation they get on a daily basis. Again. You can make a knife from composite materials if you want to. A wooden stake can do the job. Ceramic, too. Glass. Whatever you like. I can go on. If people WANT to make an invisinle weapon - they will, trust me.

"Hanging around in a gang at night-time? Problem."
Maybe it is a problem. How about this! TEACH KIDS NOT TO BE IN FUCKING GANGS!
Do you SERIOUSLY think that gang crime will stop because you limit knives?
"Excuse me, sir! Yes, you with the hoodie and the boombox. Please suspend your gang activity for a moment, I have to conduct a full body search for illegal weapons on you. Wait, sir, where are you running.."
And that's why little Antoine never got caught with a knife.

[goaded]

Good for you, you could kill someone with a used teabag.

The solution to gang problems is generally to give young people hope and something to look forward to if they keep their noses clean. That takes time and money. In the mean time, stopping them from killing each other is worthwhile.

[Benedek38]

@goaded "Good for you, you could kill someone with a used teabag."
Actually you can. Just put rat poison in it. Simple.
LET'S BAN RAT POISON! AND TEA BAGS!

"The solution to gang problems is generally to give young people hope and something to look forward to if they keep their noses clean."
Agreed. And you also have to sanction it, otherwise you end up with a bunch of wellfare harpies like in the US.

"That takes time and money."
It would take less time and money if the UK didN't import uneducated savages en masse though.
"In the mean time, stopping them from killing each other is worthwhile."
How about
1) Stopping immigration.
2) Training more policemen.
3) Giving policemen guns, and sending them out to patrol.
4) NOT pulling punches on Muslim gang violence - they already make up 30% of the UK prison population. There CLEARLY is a problem.
5) NOT making the lives of general citizens harder?
This is victimblaming at its finest. "Don't have knives, and you won't get stabbed

[goaded]

Ah, now we get to the crux of it.

1. They wouldn't come if they had a better life where they came from.
2. Yup. (As in, don't slash their budgets to avoid increasing taxes on the rich.)
3. No. Most policemen don't want guns; policing by consent is essential. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles
4, You could be right, but my point about giving young people hope still stands.
5. You can carry a knife if you're not liekly to use it to try to kill someone, otherwise, not. Same with cricket bats, sythes, and bicycle chains. It's called judgement.

[Benedek38]

@goaded
1) You can't let every poor bastard in your country though. I knew this video will be useful one day!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cwrrMBtfKQ
The solution is to improve the economic status of the poor countries by investing in them, and to close your own borders to freeloaders, so that your own people can live happily.
2. I'm glad we agree.
3. Policemen are law ENFORCERS. If the difference between a gang member and a policeman is that one is in excellent physical shape - and the other is willing to use lethal force - well, guess who wins?
Policemen are meant to overcome the scum of society, the criminals, rapists, murderers. Now fight a senseless war with them.
You are so against guns? OK. But then you will need at least as many policemen as many gang members there are. And they'll need to be trained like professional Roman infantrymen. It has to be brutal and unrelenting.
As long as British police officers paint their nails out of solidarity... don't expect a change.

[Benedek38]

@goaded
4. True. But again, there should be CONDITIONS to that hope. And I am seriously thinking about saying that the condition should be to publically distance themselves from certain radical religious figures for example. Is it drastical? Yes. But you'd feel the same way if your country was flooded by actual nazis who raped jewish girls out of spite. Religions should NOT be a protected characteristic, as long as their teachings directly contradict the laws of the land.
5. "You can carry a knife if you're not liekly to use it to try to kill someone, otherwise, not."
Except there is no way to test that. Unless you propose the training of psychic mutant police officers who can see your thoughts, you simply can't tell whether I have a knife in my bag because I am carrying it somewhere, or because I like big ass knives... OR... Because I want to murder someone.

[continued]

[Benedek38]

@goaded
THIS MAN is a medieval arms dealer and collector.
https://www.youtube.com/user/scholagladiatoria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag1v5NmJD-A
He is one of the nicest, most consistently respectable guys I have seen on Youtube. He truly deserves all the praise I give him, and more.
The laws and regulations proposed in the UK in the last few years would make his life, and the lives of many many other people, a LIVING HELL. Literally everything he sells would be a deadly, and probably illegal tool, and as such, would need a permit, essentially putting him out of business. Because nobody wants to buy a 500 dollar sword - and a 1000 dollar permit.

And he is just ONE of people who would be wrecked by such regulations.

[goaded]

2. It's about context; the two times I was searched were when I'd left my place of work and someone had been burgling a nearby office, and when I was outside a club in the early morning when someone wearing a jacket that could have been mine was reported to police. If I'd been carrying a knife at the time (1990's), it would have been legal but suspicious. Basically, the police are the first line in deciding if you might be guilty.
3. It does NOT have to be brutal, it should be unrelenting. In the last decade, 8 police officers in the UK have died in the line of duty. Turning the police into an army is not the way to go.
4. I think religious leaders preaching treason should be arrested, I don't think people should be forced to renounce them; the bad ones would just lie.
5. I think you're over-estimating the harm to regular citizens who need to carry knives. The guy selling them has a responsibility not to sell them to an obvious maniac; big deal!

[goaded]

As to #1: "The solution is to improve the economic status of the poor countries by investing in them, and to close your own borders to freeloaders, so that your own people can live happily."
I largely agree, but the first part, under capitalism, means you take all the value from the country and give back very little. Look at income and wealth inequality over the last several decades. That needs to be dealt with.

[Benedek38]

@goaded it doesn't mean to take money necessarily. Capitalism has nothing to do with it - this is only the question of whether you cash in the profit, or recirculate it and invest into the company.

Granted, companies are afraid of investing large sums of money into develiping countries. They invested a lot in China - and the Chinese government essentially bought up their local departments, and created government puppet companies. This wouldn't fly in an open market economy, but China is playing by its own rules.

So yeah. If a country allows investors to actively defend their own assets both legally and physically (hiring personal militia), I'd guess they'd love some cheap African workforce.

And income inequality is only a problem in developed countries. In places like South Africa, generally the lack of income is the issue, not the inequality.

[goaded]

I'm pretty sure the people earning 1/100,000 of the richest would disagree.

[Benedek38]

@goaded You mean to tell me people are jealous? No shit. Doesn't mean it's notproblem the case. If you want an intellectual discussion, don't appeal to emotions.

[RationalMale]

"When someone picks up a knife they are not only ruining their life and the victims life they are ruining their family’s lives and their friends and all the people around them. "

I've actually carried a decent size folding knife for years... the one in my pocket right now-- www.amazon.com/.../ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage
Yeeet somehow I've managed to never stab anyone or get arrested for anything.
If disarming everyone of sharp objects looks like the solution to your problem, you're dealing with a bad population. Life isn't one big insane asylum where everyone is searched and wearing straitjackets. British problems are far deeper than knives.

[FatherJack]

Will not happen , law enforcement has been weakened here and the criminals know the the justice systems in the UK are generally soft and they will likely get away with it , without even being detected. @Penelope_ I agree with your sentiments , but the only language these scrotes understand is a savage beating , you cannot reason with these types , they intend to do harm / kill from the moment they pick that blade up !! Ex soldier and doorman , with a family to protect , seen it all !!

[Penelope_]

I know I just want it to end it’s so sad and it’s only getting worse :(

[FatherJack]

It will continue to get worse. I will never use a blade in self defence , but am skilled in boxing , Lethwei & other striking arts , I have KO'ed an attempted intruder back in 2010 with my trusty right hook / knee to head, the scumbag had a sharpened screwdriver. I dragged the out cold scumbag to my front , and stood on him until the police removed him. They were going to charge ME , CCTV backed me up.. He had a female lookout , she was also arrested , it's NOT just males involved.

[Penelope_]

Oh wow that’s crazy I’m glad you’re okay though

[FatherJack]

Thankyou , I was , in the end , but found out I gave the scrote a " souvenir " .. jaw and skull fracture , served him right. All local scrotes feared me after that... good , as had 2 young children to protect at the time... my 14 yr old boy is a big lad now , my 11 yr old daughter is still quite dinky , but a feisty girl !!

[Penelope_]

I don’t blame you and are those your kids in the picture? They’re absolutely gorgeous💗

[FatherJack]

Thankyou again , yes they are. I am a single dad too... they are testing at times and it's a restricted work / parenting / chores type life , but they are worth it. My daughter looks similar to her Italian mum , my boy is a mix.

[Penelope_]

Aw I can imagine and they’re so sweet! They have such beautiful eyes!

[JZ909]

Knife crime is terrible; that is self-evident. However, wishing it away won't make it go away. We need to understand why people are choosing violence as the solution to the issues they have and try to address that. Efforts like this take academic research that goes a lot deeper than knife crime statistics or anecdotal evidence, and a coordinated campaign to send the right messages to those who may consider these actions.

I think a decent model to look at is the campaign to reduce the number of people going to Syria to join ISIS. Once we demonstrated that ISIS was not a solution to their specific problems, the rates went down dramatically without direct law enforcement intervention (at least in the U. S., I'm less familiar with rates from other countries).

[goaded]

That's very interesting, do you have a link to some more details on that? Were there really that many Americans going to join ISIS?

The UK had some really stupid girls who went, as well as some men going to fight.

[JZ909]

@goaded There were never that many that joined. Most sources I've been able to find were somewhere around 250-300. Here is an article on the decreased numbers that joined ISIS: freebeacon.com/.../ , though I could swear I saw a better one.

[GetzRekt]

The first time I ever went into the centre of my city on my own at age 11 I got robbed at knifepoint by three 18 to 20yr olds, all of whom had criminal records. I've since seen knives and knife crime on many occasions growing up in a British city. It's only getting worse.

[Penelope_]

Wow I’m so sorry that happened to you and I know it just seems to be getting worse and worse :(

[GetzRekt]

Nice MyTake though, good work :)

[Penelope_]

Aw thank you! 💗

[goaded]

In1988? Since you know they all "had criminal records", I assume they were caught?

Which city? I've been stopped and searched twice in the UK in decades, completely reasonably. I've never been assaulted by armed people.

[GetzRekt]

They were indeed caught. My folks took me to the police, I was interviewed and then some time later I received a letter informing me that they had all been caught, all had previous convictions and had robbed a number of other people too. They got custodial sentences.

[goaded]

So, nobody got hurt and the criminals were sent to prison? That sounds like a pretty good outcome, to me. (Obviously, it not happening would have been better, but wouldn't you have been equally scared if they hadn't had knives?)

[GetzRekt]

@goaded The knives definitely added a little something. Having a knife tip pressed against you at 11yrs old is not cool. It was a good result in the end though, yes. I saw a lot more as I got older. Knives, hatchets, chemical sprays, etc. Violence and big cities go together.

[goaded]

They do, but I'd rather be held up by someone with a knife than someone with a gun.

[GetzRekt]

@goaded Yeah, agreed, at least you have a fighting chance.

[wilbonn19]

I bought an 18 inch Italian switchblade stiletto online. Along with bear mace and a taser. Here in the U. S., Congress officially outlawed switchblades in 1958, though many states you can possess one in your home, just not in public. The state I'm currently in last year made ANY type of knife legal to carry in public. Good thing too. I prefer blades. Much more quiet, less witnesses. In a country with so many bullies, whackjobs, junkies, ex cons, pill popping crzies, and just flat out assholes... I'm not calling any cops. I now send a clear message-GO ELSEWHERE. LEAVE ME ALONE. I've used em on public transit, in front of stores... it always works. People here like to shout, try to rob, bully, or act crazy to you-only until they see they're about to get their funky ass put down for good-THEN they go fuck with somebody else. The problem here isn't weapons, or possessing them. It's the type of PEOPLE we have.

[Wowgirl10q]

Balistic knife dude. There awesome look it up

[CluelesslyClueless]

Say I run someone down with my car, will they outlaw cars too?
Shut down the entire transportation network?

There are literally a million ways I can think of to make or use a weapon to kill someone.
Outlawing knives, pencils, rocks, cars, whatever is like cutting your nose to spite your face.
Its like putting Spongebob on a Band-Aid to calm a child.
You need to fix the issue with your society, not blame an inanimate object that can neither think, feel, or act without a handler.

[juliaanita]

The care analogy doesn't work very well. When cars were more dangerous because of structure, or lack of seat belts, or bad tire design or road design, the government (yep the governement) begain to regulate (yep regulate) safety features. driver's licenses were issued, driver's safety courses were mandated. Seat belts and airbags were invented. Roads were made to be more safe, Tires were better built. Kids had to be strapped in the back of the car. Cars were built with safety features too numerous to mention.

And guess what? MVAs and consequent deaths per population went down. Way down.

My thought is that we do the same with certain weapons, like firearms, and the mass slaughter we see now in the US will also decrease.

I do agree with you that there is a ugly anger in the world right now that we also have to address. And I am all for addressing that also.

[CluelesslyClueless]

@juliaanita You do realize seat belts weren't mandatory until 1983, and airbags weren't required until 1998? Cars were more dangerous because of technological and engineering limitations. You put a 12 cylinder engine, in a 3 ton car, that is chain driven, with woodspoke wheels - of course the damn thing would be a death trap. I have a 18 foot long 1968 Caprice in my driveway, it has seatbelts. They came as an option. But you know what? Back in the day if I would have gotten in an accident, those seatbelts wouldn't have protected me from sh*t. Why? Because the car is an enormous steel land yacht, that is hitting another land yacht at high speed.

If you want violence to end, people need to take responsibility.
Violence is a result of civil unrest, be it lack of jobs, housing, sustainable living, whatever.
It's a much bigger problem than "Ban pointy things".

[juliaanita]

I realize all of that-and i do know that car deaths have dramatically decreased over the years, not because of people taking responsibility, as you say, but because of regulation.

Firearms could easily be regulated without infringing upon the precious 2nd amendment the gun enthusiasts so dearly cling to. I guarantee you that if this country mandated stringent licensing, and background checks, if firearms were made only to be fired by the person who bought it, if insurance mandates were in place (like car insurance?) if the purchasing of a firearm required more than a gun and some cash, gun deaths would also decrease. Dramatically.

I agree also with your opinion RE unrest. I know where it comes from, I don't know what the future brings.
But god help us if we don't start to control firearms. Not pointy things-which is a specious comment-but firearms.

[WalterRadio]

@juliaanita
"The care analogy doesn't work very well"
No, you are the one who doesn't get it.

You immediately went into auto SAFETY. Guns are very safe. With over 300M guns, only about 500 people a year are accidently killed. There are about 260M autos/trucks in the US that results in over 30,000 accidental deaths.

There is no auto regulation or car safety feature that prevents someone from getting into a car and running over people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WamOIS7e5Vk

Like many people, you confuse safety (accidents) with security (intent). Regulations enhance safety. Only physical force and threat of force (locks, walls, fences, prison cells, and bullets going in the opposite direction) can enhance security.

[WalterRadio]

@juliaanita
"I guarantee you that if this country mandated stringent licensing, and background checks"
The State of Illinois mandates 100% licensing and background check to possess or buy a gun or ammunition. There is no legal exception for acquiring a gun in another state. Chicago is the murder capital of the US. You fail.

"if firearms were made only to be fired by the person who bought it"
How are you going to do that? The technology you are thinking of doesn't work reliably. And what are you going to do with the over 300,000,000 guns that do not have that imaginary technology? One of my guns is 92 years old. If I put ammunition in it and pull the trigger, it will fire with near certain reliability. You fail.

"if insurance mandates were in place (like car insurance?)"
Insurance covers the loss if something is stolen or the liability of accidents. Insurance does NOT cover illegal acts. Every murder is an illegal act, and criminals do not buy insurance. You fail.

[WalterRadio]

@juliaanita
"if the purchasing of a firearm required more than a gun and some cash"
You have never tried buying a gun, have you? You fail. Try it. You will learn something.

[BOUNTYGUY9]

police cuts are to blame we need more police and more prisons life is very cheap to those kind of guys that are killing other guys its the uk goverment to blame a lot of this crime has to do with drugs and most of it is black on black crime like in america

[BOUNTYGUY9]

thanks and we need more stop and search caught with a knife in scotland you go straight to jail for two years and we have a very low rate of knife crime the word went round so those guys won't carry a knife as they dont want to go to jail for two years we need to take a tough stance regards this matter

[BOUNTYGUY9]

thanks

[ImSoSquishy]

it's not just knives, crimes with any melee or ranged weapons in general will never end. just run away or give up your goods. they never attack alone, there's always other gang members waiting in the area and the moment you try to do your fancy techniques the others are gonna come running in to chop you up with machetes and stab you with knives.

[Anonymous]

A guy with a knife tried to rob me. I shot him with my revolver I keep on my handbag.

[Penelope_]

What happened?

[Opinion Owner]

I shot him

[Penelope_]

Did you call the police?

[Opinion Owner]

After I shot him yeah.

[Penelope_]

I’m glad you’re okay

[goaded]

Where did you shoot him?

[Opinion Owner]

@goaded in the street outside my work.

[FatherJack]

Serves the bastard right. However , as per this post , civilians are banned from going anywhere near a firearm in the UK , so not an option here.

[goaded]

@FatherJack You know that's not true, right? You just need a good reason to have one and people who will say you'll be safe with one (probably a few more conditions, too). So buy a farm, and you can have a gun.

[goaded]

"in the street outside my work."
I meant where abouts on his body!

[Belgie]

It can't be done.

Human nature is violent. Violence is always going to be with us, and next to just picking up a rock and hitting or throwing it, knives are one of the oldest tools in existence out there. We can't "control" them or stop people being able to buy them or use them.

You can't educate the morons out of violence. It's a lizard brain problem. Lizards can't be taught not to be lizards. It's their nature.

[Carpetmanandkoop]

I always love it when people blame the knife or the gun. my fiance was killed by her ex. Never once did I blame the gun or believe that gun laws could prevent him from killing her. we would have had a gun he would have beaten her with a rock. I guess then I would have blamed the Rock. Stupid people should listen instead of speaking!

[Wowgirl10q]

Preach

[Wowgirl10q]

People who are anti gun are usually from cities and haven't even shot one in there lives

[Hispanic-Cool-Guy]

@Wowgirl10q: People who are anti gun tend to live in nice low crime neighborhoods and haven't seen the face of evil nor experienced real evil bitter people who have threaten them with a weapon before to their face.

All the evil they ever see is on TV shows.

[Wowgirl10q]

My man

[Wowgirl10q]

@Hispanic-Cool-Guy then stay in your neighborhood we're keeping our guns

[Wowgirl10q]

@Hispanic-Cool-Guy guns are not evil people are evil. Guns don't fire themselves real men go hunting and use them for sport. Me i use them for protection and also to shoot at drowns

[simplyaramdomgirl]

@Hispanic-Cool-Guy I don't like guns. They're much more trouble than they're worth and in the end, they don't help much. I've never once heard someone say "And thanks to having my trusty gun is that I've survied this." I've had held guns and seen guns up close. Luckily nothing has happened to me, but I can't say I'm exactly a fan. You're an idiot if you think that a gun will keep you safe. I have a friend that was robbed in her own house with her own gun. She was woken up with her gun to her forehead and the thieves made her husband empty their cards. Did their guns keep them safe? Not exactly. I also know many others that haven't lived to tell the tale. I agree with @Carpetmanandkoop but I can't exactly blame people who don't support guns.

[Penelope_]

@simplyaramdomgirl I agree!

[Charlotte_May]

You can make a shiv out of a soda tin. The problem isn't the knives, it's the retards using them. Start profiling the retards and be ready to be amazed how deep the rabbit hole goes

[Penelope_]

You’re right

[Charlotte_May]

I know right

[Bananaman177]

I like how you didn't mention Muslims once even though they're responsible for 80% of all knife crime in the UK.

Import a few more million, see what that does to your knife crime statistics.

[Pyrofox]

TO be very blunt knife crime is not about to end anytime soon. Its more ingrained in human society than the use of guns.

The harsh reality is just learn self defense and you won't have to be so concerned. About knifes.

[Penelope_]

I agree

[Pyrofox]

If your fighting though someone with a knife smack their wrist of the hand that has the knife if you know they have a knife downwards and take the time that they are startled to smack them in the eye. If someone is attacking you with a knife its premeditated. One does not use a knife unless its planned.

[Penelope_]

Thank you!

[Benedek38]

Bullshit. Self-defense against knives rarely works. Ask any professional martial artist. It is useless 99% of the time. You are better off running.

[Pyrofox]

@Benedek38 If someone is already on top of you with a blade your more likely to survive grabing the blade and wrenching it out of their hand than trying to run. haven't we all seen enough slasher horror films to know that much.

[Benedek38]

I repeat myself.
If the attacker is ON TOP OF YOU, your best bet is to say your prayers, and grit your teeth, because it's gonna hurt. You are NOT going to be able to stop the attacker, only maybe slow them down. Maybe. You will probably die either way.

Watch this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGcxtaLO4Bg
HE makes a living out of teaching this stuff. How many times would he have died in this 10 minute demonstration? Probably more than I am comfortable with, I want to keep it to a solid zero.
Knife defense DOES NOT WORK. Don't delude people into it. It is esentially a bandaid on a knife stab - even in the off chance that it IS useful for you once, MOST people will get killed doing it, therefore it is doing more harm than good, especially if idiots teach it.

Don't encourage people to learn self-defense. Tell them the blunt proof, and then show them the absolute maximum they can do.

For anyone reading this: the first rule of knife defense is don't be a hero.

[Pyrofox]

Its always better to know some than none. Options are better than none. loosing an arm or a hand is always going to be better than ending up on the table in a morgue.

One can most of the time live from a knife to the hand or a slashed forearm your not going to get far regardless of running if they get a knife to the abdomen. The point of self defense is to get away. Not to kill I think your thinking this is some spy movie or some BS. I'm saying to be prepared and defensive. Not that you gotta kill or supress your agressor. I'm suggesting a methods to be able to widen your distance and turn the situation from a definite death to a chance of at worst maybe a loss of finger and a bad hand wound. Plus there are only so many stabing and cutting moves one can do with a knife or any bladed weapon.