Do you think the state government of Texas, The police and officials should be scrutinized for their actions (or lack thereof) in the Uvalde shooting?

Question

I mean the gunman was inside for over an hour, he shot his own grandma and fired at 2 other people sitting at a funeral home across the street from the school. The police should have been proactive right then. Now Gov. Abbott is being criticized on his actions and response as well. The police at the press conferences are less than empathetic in their news briefings.

BCA6010 · Accepted Answer

The governor has basically nothing to do with it, the only thing he can actually do is pressure the state legislature to pass some measures, but that's ultimately on them to draft and him to sign. The Texas governor office is one of the weakest in the country in terms of how much power it actually has- he can deploy the national guard like everyone else can, and he has the power to line-item veto bills. That's about it. If some state regulations are on the books and the city of Uvalde were not in compliance, then the state government would have grounds to bring the hammer down on the mayor.

Now everything that follows is based on what has been released to the public, so some points are only as accurate as the news they're based on: As of 2017, Uvalde had its own SWAT team. That may have changed following the defund the police movement and COVID if they lost the funding and/or manpower to support it. The town I live in now is only about 2,000 higher population than Uvalde, but we and every other town around us have their own tactical teams despite being pretty comfortably close to Dallas, which not only has a large police department, but is also a hub for every single federal agency in the country. I can understand that a town about 85 miles away from San Antonio and about the same from the border in an agrarian region that is pretty quiet might neglect the need for a response team, but one would think that your regular patrol cops could make do, especially when schools are supposed to be one of very few instances in which a responding officer should be entering immediately. Room clearing is not a difficult skill to train for, and I can absolutely understand wanting to wait for at least a second officer before going in, but it can be done very competently with only two armed officers, even if not ideal.

Now I have a lot of criticism for how the Uvalde police appear to have reacted to this (from a military background POV anyway), but in their defense, their hands are tied to whatever their department procedures are, and this has been especially true nationwide ever since the Derek Chauvin trial. If for example their department policy demands that officers can only cordon the area and secure a perimeter and wait for a tactical team, then everyone involved can get into legal trouble if one or more of them try to storm in and *anything* goes wrong. And it shouldn't require explanation but officers giving parents and bystanders body armor so that they could rush in themselves (armed or unarmed) would've been a huge no-no.

A detail I haven't heard any consistency on is when the first 9-1-1 call went out, and what exactly was said. If the first response was to the grandmother getting shot at her home, they would've been scrambling in that direction instead of the school. I haven't heard anything on whether or not a call was made regarding the when he crashed his car and shot at the people across the street, though I have heard that a school faculty member opened a door to see what the noise was. By pretty much every account, the school itself was incredibly negligent, so I'd wager the lion's share of shortcomings are from the school and the department, which would both include the city leadership itself.

N192K001 · Accepted Answer

lol Nope! It's not their job!

As I've stated in previous events, the courts have ruled time…
“Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone”
28 June 2005
「The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.」
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html
… & time again:
“U. S. judge says law enforcement officers had no legal duty to protect Parkland students during mass shooting”
21 December 2018
「U. S. District Judge Beth Bloom said neither the school nor sheriff’s deputies had a legal obligation to protect students from the alleged shooter, Nikolas Cruz, who is accused of killing 17 people at the school Feb. 14. Her reasoning? The students were not in state custody, the Sun Sentinel reported.」
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2018/12/21/us-judge-says-law-enforcement-officers-had-no-legal-duty-protect-parkland-students-during-mass-shooting/

LAW-ENFORCEMENT is their job. (Body-guarding is an altogether different profession.)

That's yet another reason the 2nd Amendment is a right of the citizenry. The Founders' original intent was the citizens = the Militia. This was in the “Militia Act of 1792” drafting all free, able-bodied White male citizens of age and mandating military-grade firearms;
https://www.mountvernon.org/education/primary-sources-2/article/militia-act-of-1792/
… the “Militia Act of 1862” admitting male Black citizens; and
https://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2017/winter/summer-of-1862
… the last “Militia Act of 1903” (Pub. L. 57−33, 32 Stat. 775) drafting all male citizens of age & foreigners with intent to become citizens, and dividing them between an organized militia (the "National Guard") & the rest ("Reserve Militia").
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/496/334

We, the People were meant to be the guardians of ourselves, our communities, and the Union. Unfortunately, the act was repealed, and mass-training of the citizenry was abandoned. And now the Union suffers the consequences: a dependent, less fit, untrained, less emergency-prepared, citizenry at the mercy of the armed (the malicious criminals & the abusing law-enforcement agents).

But that's my take on civil- & national-defense. In terms of school-shootings, doesn't this usually involve the bullied? How are bullies just not learning? Of course, bullying does not justify shooing, but seriously‽ Most of us can take it, but it only takes 1 to trigger fatal results. WHY risk it? Is it so hard to learn that bullying can result in being force-fed lead at high speeds? How many school shoot-outs does it take for bullies to finally learn?

Whatthefluff · Accepted Answer

The governor of Texas is as bumbly a leader as President Bush.
"But mah rights"
For me, I'm for gun ownership. These things should be approached with mental health in mind. Suicide by gunshot is a very real, more commonplace form of gun violence. Anyone seeking to purchase a gun should be required as part of licensure to attend a mental health education conference. The only way to help end deviance and bad behaviors is to reduce the stigma of the underlying behavior.
I do not know the story of this school shooter, but I firmly believe that people like him should be encouraged seek a clinician and save their soul.
I think the majority of people should be allowed to own firearms. But safe holds need to be put in place.

katiesmuff · Accepted Answer

Until your in the position that those police officers were in it is impossible to judge their actions. What the state should be scrutinized for is the lack of reasonable legislation concerning gun ownership.
What truly needs to change is get rid of the gutless puppet republican legislator's in both the state and federal governments and replace them with republican's who have common sense and are truly in touch with the people of this country. Would be absolutely nothing wrong with some well thought out gun legislation which would not infringe on the average American's rights.

Qdbrown · Answer

Right now the Anti-Gunners are having a field day. They want to make an example of Texas in every bad way to change the tide of gun control that has been falling out of popularity.

No one in Texas did anything particulary wrong. It is questionable why the local cops were slow to respond, but that said, they were a small rural police department. It sounds like when they got there, they took fire and backed off and kept the shooter boxed in the classroom. They didn't have body armour, equipment and training to take on the shooter.

Instead, they focused on getting children out of the school while they waited for a tactical unit to come in, and like most places in Texas, it can take a long road trip to get anywhere.

It's easy to Monday Morning Quarterback what the local cops did wrong. I am sure they will investigate what happen, and why. If the local cops did coward out, they should be looking for new careers. But it's easy to be critical not understanding the way things work way out in the middle of no where.

LogicBomber · Answer

Columbine... two kids with guns run through a school and kill a handful of students... we are given video footage inside the school of the shooters, there are lengthy diaries and videos made by the punks released to the media showing their history and intent.
The story is consistent and an obvious real life event.

120lbs Adam Lanza apparently shot his mother then went to a school and shot teachers and 20 kids... busted through bullet proof glass under a surveillance camera yet there has been No actual proof aside from what the news tells us to believe. No video surveillance, a heavily redacted document that shows literally nothing, the media couldn’t get the story straight, stories kept changing from eye witnesses, overhead footage shows odd scripted like behaviour around the fire hall, no ambulances were allowed near the scene, the school was torn down shortly after, all families of the victims moved there with a year prior to the incident.
The police did not conduct themselves as they should have, captured a person who was later released and never spoken about again.
All around the event screamed sketchy.

Now, This guy apparently shot his grandmother then went to a school and shot teachers and 19 kids yet again we are also not given any actual evidence. The persons history is unverifiable, the online presence has no history and only enough posts to be screen shoot and used as media fodder, the people involved also have no real online presence, are impossible to find, had momentary dealings with the person, or “wanted to remain anonymous”. The police didn’t act as they should have. Things seem almost as if the script were rebranded from the sandy hook story.

Not saying that these events didn’t occur, although it is pretty weird how little verifiable data there is outside of the media circus.

sage2021 · Answer

I just learned that it was a teacher who propped the door open where he got in. She knew shots were fired so she opened the door to see what was going on. She had the door propped open while she went to get her cell phone.
Biden is supposed to go to the town in Texas on Sunday. But it's just for show because the democrats need the votes to win in November.
Yes, to answer your question, all parties involved need to be held responsible, accountable. At least the State of Texas can make changes to the systems they have now. Maybe not the whole country though, that just won't ever happen sorry to say.

ryanontario · Answer

ok but what was this persons motive? he shot up a public school that he had no know connection to anyone at it? for the sheer purpose of killing people and getting attention , if he had just killed a couple people he knew and then killed self no one would of heard of him

surely he had to be aware of the political consequences of his actions and one has to wonder if that played into his possible motive , seems pretty odd he planned a mass shooting in texas days before the NRA was scheduled to hold there annual meeting in texas. not saying that is his motive but i'd say its possible

Static_In_The_Attic · Answer

You go to an airport it’s security screening at its highest. You go to a school & most of the time you walk right in or you can walk in an unsecured side door. As for me I don’t blame the under paid police officers & their departments & it’s so unreal how something goes wrong the police take the hit & the blame & I’m really starting to feel sorry for them. As for me I blame the shooter & secondly I blame the schools for not having proper security & security screening as well. School shootings are up because people are walking right in the flocking doors.

lightbulb27 · Answer

for sure, need to find out their perspective, training. somebody made decision to hold them back, but doesn't seem to make sense when shots are already fired. maybe they thought was a hostage situation to try and negotiate.

I don't see how the governor was involved, he's involved in making laws... although should find out the decision process failure. decisions should not have to go that high to make a decision. If that's the case, then support gun rights and let the parents go in and save their kids.

huge failure. could this be due to losses in police departments... defund, inexperience?

Goforit1010 · Answer

Ya know... none if us were there to view the situation.

This is a SMALL town (pop. 16,000). They don't have the physical resources someplace like Dallas, or San Antonio does. They certainly don't have the manpower of a larger city. None of us were there to assess the situation and heard what they did in the process of going after him. So to play armchair quarterback and make judgments about what happened, especially in this case, is walking on thin ice.

Personally, I would have thought the police would have risked their lives and gone after the shooter. I'd like to think they're trained enough to make that attempt time after time, if nothing else than to distract his attention on them instead of the kids in the classrooms. If he's shooting at the cops, he's not shooting at the kids AND expending his ammo in the process.

But... I wasn't there. I don't have enough information to know if what the police did was the best for the situation.

josephinelcajon · Answer

I back the police but feel this entire thing was a scripted setup! First yet again a known troubled kid is not taken seriously! Where did this kid get thousands and thousands of dollars to buy this high-end equipment used by law enforcement? Took police several minutes just to get to the school then sat outside for an hour! Police showing up in flip flops walking around not hiding behind anything! Many rounds were shot yet not one witness outside the school heard them. News media with very large sat trucks were on air at the school in minutes (these trucks take days to setup for sporting events) Unarmed police entered the school to get their kids out. The list of unusual events in this is crazy! O and a door the first door the "suspect came to was "propped open" I mean come on people!

OlderAndWiser · Answer

Yes, the local law enforcement should be reviewed closely and I would expect to see a few lawsuits filed by the parents of these kids.

bolverk · Answer

All of The police and officials who were on the ground and had issued orders in the Uvalde shooting should be scrutinized for their actions, or inactions on that day because that situation should not have been as protracted as it was, and it should have never become the cluster fuck it developed into it is the only way to learn from it too make sure that it doesn’t happen again.
I am willing to bet that those higher in the command chain were too concerned of the possible political fallout, instead of being concerned about the children who lost their lives that day.
All of the excuses put forward by a senior officer at the Friday news conference that the officers at the school had no body armour or trained ‘precision shooters’ was a load of BS.

Straight2thepoint · Answer

No, and no. This is our own doing. We (who can ) elect people over empty promises. Without looking into these political bodies who are groveling over votes. After they become leaders, they switch on us. Then they spit into our mouths as we beg for our rights. We have become dependent over them. So NO. The only solution is guns stop guns. Right? That's why people call the cops? Right? Then arm the fukn teachers or contract cops (plural) cops. To do the job. Killers, crazies, the mentality Ill won't stop at nothing, to do their kill. The only major issue that the government is causing is disarming the entire sane citizens. And that's why we have a constitution. U guys should read it.

Belgie · Answer

Only so that the public can finally get it through their heads that the police are NOT there to protect themIt seems like way too many Americans still think these glorified slave catchers are a public force for good, despite the courts upholding repeatedly that the police have no legal obligation to protect the public.

KelleyNice · Answer

That was a false flag operation to condition the public to accept gun control. The police were prevented from entering until their patsy, that of course they killed, to prevent him from being questioned, murdered enough children.

RolandCuthbert · Answer

Yeah, you are not going to get much discussion at this website. Even when kids are murdered in cold-blood. We have a bunch of boot-lickers here. Now consider this, parents at the scene were tackled to the ground, beaten, and pepper sprayed as their children were being murdered inside. Here is the account of one woman. . .

Lionman95 · Answer

I think the security protocoll needs to corrected why did it take the Border Patrol Police 40 minutes to get to the school because that sounds extra-ordinary long to me. I understand that the police officers didn´t want to enter the building without help of special forces.
I think that is good to really make the situation secure but it shouldn´t have taken that long.

2log10x · Answer

Of course. But if you have a country full of guns, this is the exact situation I would expect to see regularly. So the US citizens picked this outcome. In the UK we had a school shooting in I think 1996. Gun law was tightened and people handed over their guns. We haven't had a school shooting since.

Wsx2wsx2ws · Answer

It is easy to criticize. And criticize is all they have right now. Imagine if one child where hit by a stray officer's bullet?
We really can't know what could have gone different if they charged in or did different tactics. Hind sight is 20/20 and I don't see that we can accuse them of not caring about all those children. But anger and blame are phases of grief. So there are going to be angry criticizing words.

TheorionMage · Answer

Oh HELL YES! ... and I'm a retired Police Officer & Criminal Profiler~

Did it NOT occur to ANYONE there that this is a single story grade school
that has exterior classroom windows that are NOT bulletproof?
The busier you could keep him, worrying about YOU
until the specialty teams arrive, the FEWER children would have died!
Body armor? SHOOT FOR HIS HEAD!!!

WindAtMyBack · Answer

I used to date a girl from Uvalde. So I've known about the town for 45+ years and know it's a little tiny town in the middle of nowhere. I've also lived in very remote places. In places like that, the state, the governor, and even the local police have almost nothing to do with anything.

Most people live in cities. They don't realize that in places like this that everyone is on their own.

Bluemax · Answer

Yes, I believe *ALL* law enforcement should be scrutinized when such an event goes down.

That being said, I acknowledge that it's entirely possible the police were following protocol and doing the right thing. I simply don't know... and unless you were there, neither does anyone reading this.

LikeALog · Answer

Well somebody went after the gunman while the cops were outside. An off duty Border Patrol Officer.
https://www. MSN. com/en-us/news/us/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-off-duty-cbp-agent-saves-students-daughter-after-help-text-from-teacher-wife/ar-AAXMAMj

Soteris · Answer

Regardless of a good or bad outcome I think an official review of major events like this is just beneficial to identify what happened, what went well or poorly and what could be done better next time. Putting aside any accusations of corruption involved I just think its a sign of weakness not to review your own performance in critical situations.

Koneko911 · Answer

Oh yeah. They are responsible for those kids dying, period. And I hope the parents sue the fuck out of everyone involved

Prettysammie · Answer

It should be the officers in scene, the police department and if their training it state training or policies led to that, then those should be held partially responsible too. Those officers chose their own safety over the safety of those kids and that’s not ok. They did not protect and serve.

Anonymous · Answer

Local government yes, as that is who the non-responding officers worked for, were equipped by, and trained by. The State Government wasn't in range to respond.

The Federal Government is as much responsible for none of the teachers already there being armed and able to take any kind of defensive measure in the entire 12 minutes of forewarning they had.

Had only a few of them had access to a firearms they could have used that 12 minutes to eliminate the threat.

supercutebutt · Answer

So it turns out "good guys with guns" are pussies. So that Republitard excuse of MORE guns being the answer was total bullshit all along. What a fucking surprise.

OddBeMe · Answer

Everything should be scrutinized.

There was a sniper attack in Dallas years ago. The police sent an explosive robot in to kill him. Making him the first person killed by UAV drone in America. That shoulda been scrutinized, even tho i agree with it.

Fuentes · Answer

Since when have you heard of a Govenor taking over for police tactics during tragic times? Lol last i check Law enforcement dispatch is not in the Gov's office lol and it took the news awhile to catch the story. They're crazy people out there & thhings happen you can criticize people for not handling it and you can't blame a govenor who is not at ever local police dept when bad things happen lol

driven159 · Answer

This shows why people need to be armed the police are useless to help citizens they spend more money on speeding radar then gear to protect the public they should be shames of themselves and all of you that think to defund the police this it what you will get hope you like it they look like mall cops

Avicenna · Answer

I don't see why the Governor needs be investigated, but the law enforcement response definitely does, and it will be scrutinized heavily as part of the discovery process when the city of Uvalde is sued.

GlassTop · Answer

Imagine how many lives could have been saved if one of those teachers had a gun and blew that kid away as soon as he entered class. These mentally I’ll murderers wouldn’t even target schools anymore if they knew teachers were trained and armed.

AviatorTom · Answer

Like any crime scene, this will be examined and scrutinized, and recommendations made to improve how future similar situations are handled.

Baredog69 · Answer

I support police but I can't figure why they waited 40mins to breach. I'm ex--military we just did what had to be done damn the risk when kids are involved

SlightlyEccentric · Answer

Government: Give us your guns so we can protect you Also government: You expect us to go in there with an active shooter? You're crazy!

Guy_No1974 · Answer

The only reason these shootings happen is because of the availability of guns, the second amendment is a disgusting joke.

CallmeTheKnight · Answer

The police should be held accountable for that, not the government nor the governor. The police responded first and their officers that were on scene showed their cowardice.

Pterodon · Answer

Let all the facts come together first. I’m more critical of why the school wasn’t more secure

IsoUser · Answer

They need to come up with an excuse other than that they were all Cowards including the Texas Rangers. For waiting over an hour allowing that Psychotic 18 year old to kill 19 children other than that they are just Cowards!

GoodGuyBreakingBad · Answer

I agree the police should have acted right away on it, but they failed to do so this is why people are blaming Gov. Abbott.

Alex8736 · Answer

Kind of a gray area. The day after the incident Biden was making a speech regarding defunding the police and police reform which makes less cops

msc545 · Answer

The police certainly need to be investigated. The governor too, perhaps. Not sure about the whole state government.

Lookingforthetruth · Answer

You do realize what the 2nd amendment was put in place for right, communist?

Jamie05rhs · Answer

The local first responders should absolutely be held accountable.

Wise4myage · Answer

Yes, they really fucked up. But that teacher who propped the door open is in trouble too.

Amur8711 · Answer

Yes, they should. Every time there is a mass shooting there has been very convenient circumstances that allow each one to happen.

WhiteBoyChill · Answer

They should be held criminally responsible since they swore a public oath and didn’t fulfill their duty

007kingifrit · Answer

police yes, but the governor had nothing to do with it

Sabretooth · Answer

fire every fucking one of them and take their pension and all other benefits.

bigslab · Answer

It's no wonders some people want the police defunded

EnglishEuropean · Answer

Of course, I'm all for oversight. So long as it doesn't turn into a witch hunt.

888theGreat · Answer

Someone will be sued , the school, the police , and maybe state of Texas

BLP11520 · Answer

I heard a teacher propped a door open... shooter waltzed right in.

fireforeffect · Answer

The Police officers certainly should. Who ever made the decision not to go in should be fired.

Slim57 · Answer

Anyone that has a chance to save a child and doesn't do anything is a real piece of shit

cloud9vortex1234 · Answer

Yes, the police should of went in the school ASAP.

anylolone · Answer

Everyone will be, including the FBI.

MrTaboo · Answer

Sounds like the city needs it bad.

AFretiredTXn · Answer

Yes they have made many many bad errors

GatewayRealm · Answer

Had I been there I would of Killed him.

dudeinohio · Answer

Nope

Do you think the state government of Texas, The police and officials should be scrutinized for their actions (or lack thereof) in the Uvalde shooting?

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