How much should Alex Jones have to pay the Sandy Hook families? How much prison time should he get?

[supercutebutt]

Punishment? VOTE!

Imagine losing a loved one in a mass-shooting. Then imagine 10 years of being stalked by lunatics who call you an actor who is lying about losing a loved one in a mass shooting. Then imagine having to live in hiding because of the death threats being sent to you from your stalker loons. Then imagine ALL of that insanity was the result of Alex Jones spewing lies on his shit show. How much should Alex pay? How much prison time should he get? BREAKING NEWS: Alex Jones perjured himself in court yesterday, which is crime. He lied under oath, saying that he never sent text messages about his Sandy Hook bullshit. What he didn't know is that the prosecution was given (by the defense!) 2 years worth of Alex Jones text messages, where he constantly blathered about Sandy Hook.

CLICK HERE for article

I feel Alex's lies should cost him nothing. No fines. No prison.

I feel Alex should pay no more than $2 million dollars total to all of the families he disparaged with his lies and receive no prison time.

I feel Alex needs to pay at least $100 million total to the 26 families who lost a loved one that day. Plus he should do two years in prison for perjury.

I feel Alex needs to pay at least $260 million total to the 26 families and do 10 years in prison for perjury & defamation.

$260 million plus Life in prison.

Other. I will post my desired punishment below.

Alex never lied. I agree with him. Sandy Hook was a false flag.

[ObscuredBeyond]

Sandy Hook was a false flag. That is a fact.

Government ne'er-do-wells arranged for the shooting to happen. They helped equip the shooter. So they could use the incident they created to prop up a different boogeyman in the news, to advance an agenda. That is the dictionary definition of a false flag! Not that it didn't happen at all, but that it didn't happen *organically*!

Also, why is only one family able to sue him? And for what?

He didn't pull the trigger. He didn't enable the shooter. He merely dismissed the notion that it was an organic event. Why do we only know of this family now, when the WEF lizards have decided to declare war on Alex? Why did no one know their names when it happened?

If they had a legitimate cause, they would have put themselves forward after it happened, NOT a whole decade and then some after the fact!

Also, if Alex had no clue what he was talking about, and dismissed the entire thing hand-in-fist without naming names, then the sane thing to do is ignore him.

Nobody put a gun to that family's head and made them listen to Alex Jones!

Butthurt over someone poking holes in the official narrative is not grounds under ANY law to sue someone to extinction!

Any judge who would allow that, is a rogue agent in abuse of the power of the bench, deserving of immediate if not violently forceful removal from said bench!

Alex shouldn't have to pay anyone one red cent for speaking his mind! Not even a sliver shaving of copper off one single penny!

They owe HIM for the time and money wasted on this drooling brainlet idiotic show trial witch hunt!

The purpose of this dog and pony show isn't to give restitution to anyone that Alex ever inflicted any real harm on. If he didn't name that family or any others personally, to dismiss their claims of the shooting being organic, and by the boogeyman blamed by the official narrative, is not direct defamation of anyone. To claim otherwise, therefore, is legally defamation of Alex himself!

This whole thing is a perversion of justice, from top to bottom!

The purpose of this dog and pony show is actually much more banal than what is advertised: the real purpose, is intimidation of the masses.

Question the official narrative, and they will destroy you!

Ask yourself: if the official narrative were true, what reason do they have to act like they're hiding anything? And why so vindictive against any who don't believe?

You know who else insists they're right on one hand, in spite mountains of evidence to the contrary, but is so allergic to hearing someone pressed X to doubt, that they have to shed the blood of the doubter, for no reason other than expression of doubt?

Psychotics. Criminals. Gangsters. Anyone who has a reason to lie and to cover up. Anyone afraid of consequences. Anyone who secretly has unbearable guilt.

That's the spirit of those seeking to crucify Alex. No different than a mob boss when a shop owner starts asking too many questions. Jimmy needs a dunk in the river. Time to buy him a pair of boots for his fishing expedition...

Same mindset here.

[supercutebutt]

Alex Jones now says it wasn't a false flag. So I guess Alex is a liar after all, even to you and the rest of the mentally ill community. :)

[ObscuredBeyond]

Funny you are beginning this intimidation campaign right as the UN has stated its intent to declare open war on anyone who challenges the accursed usurpers in the WEF, or any of their allies among the Soroses, Bilderburgers, current Israeli government, etc.

After that "you will own nothing speech," this isn't even the toddler caught with its hand in the cookie jar, cookie in hand, insisting it's not doing what it's been plainly doing. This is the toddler denying that the jar and cookie plainly in hand are even real!

You criminal traitors to all existence are caught red-handed! Crucifying Alex Jones will accomplish nothing, except to show us even further the extent of your cowardice. It won't even matter. Alex is far from perfect, and everyone knows it.

Far better loudspeakers against your crimes will rise up to take his place. If anything, you're unwittingly and ironically doing the side of righteousness a favor, by forcing a changing of the guard to take place.

[Lust_in_the_dust]

False flag? What a disgusting fool you are!

[FreedMan]

I don't know the details of this so I'm going to keep my response restrained. I do find the man himself reprehensible and moronic. That said if he's publishing stuff that violates slander/libel laws then the punishment should follow the sentencing guidelines. Mob sentencing doesn't belong in civilized society no matter how much we hate them. I am concerned with the growing idea trying to regulate speech (outside of print/radio). It really isn't a smart idea to start labeling things as hate speech or similar other identifiers. No matter what you say you're going to offend someone and I like not living in the world of 1984. It's important that we hear from the lunatics in our society so that we can engage them in discourse and show the public why they're absolute fucking lunatics. This is why I don't have an issue with our current slander/libel laws regulating that arena because it's an echo chamber where it can't be properly challenged in debate. Also for those on left, remember the religious right wanted to regulate speech during the rise of Rock and Roll as well as Rap and other new forms of media/entertainment that they saw as violent/hateful/promoting of Satanism/tried to tie it to murderous behavior. For those on the right don't forget the lessons that had to be learned from this failed attempt in the past. Speech is either free or it isn't. I'm not advocating for this human dumpster fire just so that's clear. That's my two cents anyways.

[supercutebutt]

This isn't 1984, friend. This is a fuckwit spreading lies about murdered CHILDREN for a decade and families being threatened with death over those lies all so he could pocket millions. I will tell you this, if Jones did this shit to my family, you wouldn't hear one more peep out of that fat turd ever again. I would make it my life's mission to even the score on MY terms. People would ask, "What ever happened to that sweaty asshole Alex Jones? :)

[FreedMan]

And that would be your choice. But regulating speech to "correct speech and wrong speech" is quite literally how censorship starts. It doesn't actually help to relegate these types to the darker quieter places of society. They fester and gain a following. This is one of the big issues I have with private "news" places like Gaia. com, Infowars, etc. all promote these lunatic ideals and they're never questioned or debated. The number of flat earthers or people who believe the world was created as is a few thousand years ago is growing not shrinking or even staying proportionate to population rates. When idiots are given a platform to reach the public and THEN immune from questioning is why we have morons like this. And yes we are rapidly approaching 1984 (the book, in all seriousness I wasn't sure if you got the reference). Many western countries are criminalizing verbally misgendering someone which is up there in list of idiotic ideas. The problem is defining a line where it's okay and where it's not because no one agrees on it and everyone has subjective limits to what they deem appropriate. And how long until this sort of tactic is used to silence political opposition or social groups? It's a rabbit hole with no end. I can appreciate you're pissed about this and rightfully so. I was merely bringing up the fact that many people think more laws in this regard are the way to go and I respectfully disagree.

[I_Can_Help]

I'm reading your back and forth and only cutebutt is making sense. There is truth and there are lies. That's it. Sandy Hook happened. Families lost loved ones. Alex Jones defamed them for profit and then lied under oath about it. Those are crimes. End of story. We are a nation of laws, pure and simple. This isn't new. The only Orwellian person here is Jones. Don't believe your eyes and ears, believe what Jones tells you. Everything else is fake. It's the same thing Trump does. They are grifters and they sucked you in @FreedMan. That's embarrassing.

[Aerissa_Jade]

Lying isn't a crime unless your under oath, but since his own lawyers screwed up, that should of been a mistrial and they start over.

Can anyone imagine your own defense team accidently sending shit to the other side and NOT even telling you about or saying its attorney client privilege.

Any sane judge would of declared a mistrial because he didn't get decent representation.

Not saying he shouldn't get time, if he lied again but people lie under oath all the time (Hillary Clinton) and never serve anytime, just say "I don't recall."

If he lied again during the retrial, then sure, jail time probably no more than six months.

Collecting any winnings though, could be like OJ... good luck if he doesn't have anything they can go after, there are ways to protect certain assets... and those poor families want to keep living through this hell by pursuing him for the rest of their lives? That's crazy they don't even want to move on, they want to keep making themselves suffer.

Besides I expect a appeal is going to come soon and the only ones getting money from him will be his attorneys and his income is going to drop to zero. So lock him up and expect him to pay, are mutually exclusive.

[cipher42]

The thing is, in Texas it's legal for lawyers to use material that the other side accidentally shared with them. Federally, that wouldn't be legal, but since the lawsuit is happening in Texas it's fine.

[ChooChooHaha]

If he really did lie under oath, etc.:

Let him go ffs. Otherwise where do you stop?

[ChooChooHaha]

If he actually incited violence, HOW does gov. media get off? Where TF are the cops for the NYT? Oh wait... no where in sight.

[Ill_made_Knight]

He put these families through horrible torture never allaowing them closure for their children that were killed. He said it was fake, told thefamilies they needed to exume their dead children to prove that it was real. He is a liar ofthe alt right kind, perjured him self in court, and the judge had to repeatedly remind him not to lie. I don't believe hecan stop going on about it even after being convicted. It's like woven into the fabric of who he is now and the families of these murdered children need and deserve the peace that would come from him to no longer being able harp on about this.

[RolandCuthbert]

Well, we know he has to pay 50 million to the first family. He only has two more lawsuits to go. Then of course, there is the issue of child porn in the text messages sent to the lawyers.

Didn’t he accuse the libs of having sex with kids?

Funny how that works.

amp.marca.com/.../62ed36be22601d7b5d8b45ab.html

Did Alex Jones had child porn material on his cellphone?

According to the lawyers representing the parents and family members of the Sandy Hook massacre that Alex Jones denied, they found critical content in the received material.

The lawyers affirmed they received child pornography documents on the leaked text messages.

Consultants found sensitive images and alerted the FBI about the situation.

[ChooChooHaha]

The kiddie porn was a set up.

[RolandCuthbert]

It is always a setup when a trumper breaks the law.

He is the most disgusting creature on this planet. Yet he has defenders.

Go figure.

[lightbulb27]

I have no idea.

on one side it's freedom of speech... anyone can say what they want.

on another side, maybe he's crazy and should be locked up until well

on another side (yes, it's a triangle)... what he says can be terribly hurtful to others such that he should pay to compensate those he's hurt.

I favor freedom of speech with check into hospital... followed by public statements to right it all and apologies.

this shooting occurred close to where I now live although I wasn't there at the time. It's a fright just to say the name. I recall hearing the theories of how it was a fake but sure seems easy to prove it is real.

[supercutebutt]

People have a severe misconception of what "freedom of speech" means. All you have to do is watch as Jones gets his ass handed to him for his defamatory words and his lies under oath. It's all unfolding. He already owes millions and this has just started. This will be a great education for you. :)

[lightbulb27]

isn't freedom of speech the ability to express what I believe to be true without fear?
Is he saying what his truth is or did he know he's lying and creating issues intentionally? There are people who are delusional nut cases and they can be religious. There are mental illnesses out there...

I don't blame the families for fighting back when they were threatened as well as memories of their kids insulted, they had no choice but to attack to stop it. Seems a simple matter to prove all the deaths...
People unfortunately, have become idiots.
I have not watched any of this unfold.

[supercutebutt]

You must understand that your rights end where mine begin. This is why you can't go around defaming people. If someone did that to you and ruined your life, you wouldn't take action? You would be their doormat bitch? That's pathetic if so.

[supercutebutt]

And yes, he did it intentionally for profit. This is why he currently owes $50 million and this isn't ending anytime soon. 25 MORE families can go after this soulless piece of shit.

[lightbulb27]

I'll keep an open mind but in general, I don't like lawyers and big jury awards.. the wrongs committed by juries in our country is huge cost to us... and if someone wants to say stupid crap its their right. I've had people wrong me and didn't sue them, so maybe I'm too passive, maybe I could have made big $. I know people (multiple) who are delusional and mentally ill, you or I will never confince them of their false reality. It's mental illness. He sells his.
it's a good question as to freedom of speech, I'll think about this more.

[lightbulb27]

Do you agree with this... a) words hurt people

[ObscuredBeyond]

Notice, if you will, that the judge defaulted him to guilty before this whole charade even began, FruitAss. That's a mistrial, by definition! So before you lust for any more of his blood, consider the position you're putting yourself in.

As I said: the whole thing is an orchestrated witch hunt. He got too close to smelling a rat. So they had to destroy him, as a way to intimidate anyone else who would dare come forward about anything else the gubmint does that's shady.

None of the sadistic evildoers that murdered those children in Waco ever got punished for it. Janet Reno walked away like nothing happened.

The water car inventor in Texas? His killer never saw justice. We were supposed to just keep bleating out the gun control script the second it appeared on screen, right on cue, when a couldn't-be-more-staged-if-it-tried school shooting happened right around the same time. The same kabuki theater, right on cue!

When that alleged Vegas shooter's brother questioned how his brother could hit up that country music concert from so many different angles at 180 degrees to any angle reachable from his alleged window vantage point, and how he could somehow also control two helicopters firing miniguns at the crowd, since the Vegas shooter isn't an octopus, cue a FAT32 HDD on a Windows 95-running machine magically having 64 TB of child porn on it, conveniently found in an illegal raid of the brother's basement, in which the judge then conveniently decided to let this illegal raid stand, along with the obvious planting of an NTFS drive that clearly didn't even have a parallel cable port to connect to the brother's motherboard!

But computer science be damned, no one is going to come to an alleged chomo's defense! So the brother vanished, and the story was swept under the rug, and Steve Paddock is a wizard, dammit!

And that's the gubmint that is orchestrating this show trial to crucify Alex Jones.

[Lionman95]

I´m personally if such a crime can resolved by making him pay money but the punishment in such a situation should hurt him enough to make him feel it and regret the decision.

One way could be destroying his reputation so bad that he never will be able to have a radio company or a podcast ever again. Because if you can´t tell the truth then you shouldn´t work in that field.

[Lionman95]

I´m personally not sure... is missing in the first sentence

[DryGermanGuy]

This unscrupulous dirtbag should burn in hell. I hope they take away every cent of the 65 million dollar he transferred out of his sleazy company. 🤬🤬

[abc3643]

While, personally, I feel he should be executed, he likely did not do anything criminal beyond any alleged perjury which I cannot comment on. That said, he committed a shitload of torts that have ultimately caused deaths of others including those on January 6th. He needs to be put into a financial hell, but that ultimately won't happen because he will just create another media empire.

[abc3643]

You know that prison dinner scene in Goodfellas in which Henry, Vinnie, Johnny, and mob boss Paulie are in prison and about to eat dinner?

I'd like to see that scene replaced with modern mobsters Steve Bannon, Alex Jones, Rudolph Giuliani, and mob boss Donald Trump. Except there's no dinner - not even Trump steaks.

"Alex, don't put too many truths in the conspiracy."

[abc3643]

Goodfella prison dinner scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQV6CijIzrc

[jshm2]

To be fair, Alex Jones is every current American, when you give them a little power, a little audience, but take away their meds.

Alex isn't really being punished for what he said, but that he repeatedly ignored court orders to cease and desist.

In other words, it's contempt of court that's got him, more than his rabid views

[ElementoP]

He never told his stupid followers to go to their houses and harass them and send them death threats.
I don't believe in jailing someone for speaking their mind, no matter crazy it is.
In order to "incite violence" you actually have to tell people to commit violent acts, which he didn't.
I don't think Trump is responsible for the Jan 6th bullshit either, he specifically told everyone to go home even before it all happened.
This is just another example of the left going after the right for doing the same shit they do every fucking day

[ObscuredBeyond]

Precisely. They have no capacity to blush. They feel no shame at all in open hypocrisy.

BLM can openly lobby to destroy shops in New York, gloating over the fact that the mayor won't let police intervene. Facebook allows that to stand. Open conspiracy to commit violent crimes!

But I say shop owners should hire vigilantes with flamethrowers if that happens, since they have a right to self-defense if police will do nothing. That gets me a 30-day ban. Because arguing a right to self-defense is apparently "incitement of violence," but actual incitements of conspiracy to harm the innocent, is "mostly-peaceful" discourse!

Near-impossible to argue with those whose concept of reason is that perverted!

[ElementoP]

Amen, my man!

[ObscuredBeyond]

Alex may not be a perfect man. Or even get everything right. But it's pretty clear to me that this is a witch hunt. It has all the markings of one.

But even then, Alex isn't the one the lizards are truly terrified of. Those they are truly terrified of, they are terrified to even identify by name. This reveals in how their pawns are so quick to blame Alex for insights that I didn't get from Alex, as I can barely recall ever watching an entire episode of anything Alex ever put out. I've only ever seen snippets of him; yet I get identified with him. Why? Because they know I got the information from somewhere else. But they are deathly afraid to identify where. Because of the implications. So instead, they blame it all one the easiest possible scapegoat.

I could say to them: "That was from Celeste Solum! Do some homework next time!" And they will still claim I got it from Alex Jones, or from Trump. They are content in their ignorance.

[supercutebutt]

It sucks to be mentally ill today. Alex now owes $50 million and this is just getting started. :)

[ObscuredBeyond]

Calling a spade a spade isn't mental illness. Refusing to let those who won't call it a spade get off scott free for the personal destruction of spade-callers isn't mental illness.

Belief in witch hunts to destroy whistleblowers isn't mental illness either. It's just criminal contempt for what is right, in pursuit of a utopian fantasy via desire to be as gods yourselves - one of the original lies of the Garden of Eden, no less!

Those who have minds to inquire, will inquire. No level of intimidation will change that, FruitAss.

[supercutebutt]

@ObscuredBeyond Send Alex all your money. He needs you!

[ObscuredBeyond]

Stopping Black Rock isn't all about money. It's about courage. Direction. Knowing where to go when, and how. And being willing to do it once you know. Blindly throwing money at problems is a fool's errand. Half that money never goes where you intended it to anyway. I tried once, donating to Kate Shemirani's legal defense. The court embezzled the funds and let the guy in charge of them skip town with the money. She never saw a single penny of my donation! And the court let that rat bastard thief slip away, forcing Kate to have to find other ways to defend herself against the Nazi war criminals and their grandchildren that are currently ruining Britain!

[legalboxers]

pay with his life and soul. 25 to life - and his fortune wiped clean - and his cult followers should be in jail too (GO AHEAD - DISAGREE WITH ME)

[userxvi]

I don't doubt it. People like you have existed all through out history, and always have there twisted ideas of how to justify evil.

[legalboxers]

@userxvi And you dont think what he did was evil? Im sure people like you want him to go free. And people like you were there on 1/6...

[supercutebutt]

@legalboxers And people like @userxvi would be crying bloody murder if someone was stalking & threatening his life for ONE DAY, never mind 10 years.

[blondfrog]

Lol those people never take responsibility for actions and rarely get persecuted. He will have to pay nothing. Plus its not his fault those people were stupid enough to believe his lies and conspiracy theories. Just cause someone is on tv doesn't mean you can cancel your brain and believe everything that person tells you.

[I_Can_Help]

The jury disagrees. One family just got a fat payout. And tomorrow that same family will get more in the next phase. Then there are 25 other families. This fucker is fucked.

[blondfrog]

That's great but it still doesn't change the fact that everyone has free will and you can choose not to listen to bullshit artists like Alex Jones.

[I_Can_Help]

Yesterday's ruling does change the most important fact: you were wrong.

[driven159]

should give up everything he has and life in prison or executed by the families of the victims and let them go on the media telling everyone he didn't get executed now this is a notice to stop the lying bullshit

[ArtemisSilver]

one million years dungeon no trial

[msc545]

Alex is a mentally ill individual with absent empathy who is about as likable as a piece of shit. That said, there is unfortunately a legitimate free speech issue here that I expect his attorneys will raise.

[supercutebutt]

He perjured himself yesterday. And "free speech" doesn't give you the right to defame people. Libel and slander are crimes in a civil court at the very least. Alex WILL be punished. So vote based on these facts. :)

[msc545]

Assuming that all that is true, and apparently, most of it is, I think Alex won't be going home soon. Good! However, perjury is almost never prosecuted, and libel and slander and defamation are civil matters, not actual criminal offenses.

[supercutebutt]

He owes over 4 million as of today and many more millions will be owed when this is all said and done. This has just begun. And if he doesn't go jail, he will be looking over his shoulder for the rest of his fucking days.

[msc545]

I doubt he has 4 million. If he doesn't, there is nothing anyone can do - it is not criminal to be indebted. He will probably declare bankruptcy and that will discharge the debt and it will be the end of it.

[supercutebutt]

The question isn't how much he has, it's how well he sheltered his wealth. He made hundreds of millions on his BS products over the years. At one point it was hundreds of thousands DAILY. But then he started moving around and hiding his money when there were threats of Sandy Hook lawsuits.

[msc545]

I would bet they collect nothing from him.

[supercutebutt]

Time will tell.

[msc545]

yes. I cannot stand the guy.

[LazerBean]

10 years? He recanted his stance on sandy hook years ago.

[supercutebutt]

No he just recanted a couple days ago. The families have been sinfully tormented for a decade.

[LazerBean]

There is quite literally a video on YouTube from 3 years ago where he recants it.

[supercutebutt]

... and then he want right back to it. Why are you defending him? Even if what you are saying is true (it's not, it's a half-truth), is 7 years of death threats OK for losing your child in a mass shooting? What is wrong with you? If you are battling mental illness, fine. Just please take your medicine.

[supercutebutt]

Sucks to be you and sucks to be Alex Jones today. $50 million and counting :)

[LazerBean]

Lol you unblocked me just for that?

[supercutebutt]

Yup! You better send Alex money. He needs you!

[LazerBean]

What makes you say that?

[USLegionary]

Nothing. He's basically getting money taken out of his pocket for believing in a conspiracy theory and talking about it. It's a dangerous prescendent, how many of us believe in some conspiracy theory from 9/11 to the assaination if JFK.

[supercutebutt]

I see. So someone could make up a disgusting lie about YOU and spread it all over the country and it would be fine? Like maybe say you rape children. And when the individual who started the lie learns citizens are threatening your life and spray painting your house and throwing rocks at your windows, he doubles-and triples down and doesn't stop for a decade. And to top it all off, he makes millions of dollars off of this lie as more and more people tune in to listen to his anger about you. You would welcome that? Would you be delighted to uproot your life and to live in hiding and to fear for your safety every day? This is something you feel would be legal for someone to do to you? And you would take no steps to make it stop and then even the score?

[USLegionary]

What if it wasn't a lie? What if you believed it? What if you knew but couldn't prove it 100%? What if I used the legal system to shut you up and take your money?
Like I say it sets a dangerous prescendent

[ChooChooHaha]

CT isn't an argument. It's calling someone crazy to stop someone asking critical questions.

[ChooChooHaha]

No one is. But how the hell are you going to ruin someone's life like that over their speech? Where do you stop if we go down that road? No one gave two shits about Jordan Peterson or Kyle Rittenhouse being lied about. No one cares Julian Assange is on his way here. If Alex Jones said it in the first place, should he say it? Probably not. But I don't want people's lives ruined over this.

[Dargil]

Can't speak to civil penalties, but what crimes did he commit?

[supercutebutt]

He perjured himself yesterday. that's a crime. Civil penalties such as libel and slander will most likely result in legal settlements with the Sandy Hook families. So vote in my poll.

[Red_Arrow]

He has admitted that he knew that the Sandy Hook incident and people were real. Yet he continued to lie about it and managed to get his followers to attack Sandy Hook parents. Some were shot at. Some had to put out the money to move to safety, sometimes more than once. Probably a few crimes in all that.

[supercutebutt]

@Red_Arrow Alex Jones is done. Toast. And I would like to see Satan call him home. :)

[Dargil]

Yes, he is done. I never liked him anyway. He is one of the Right's screwballs.

[888theGreat]

You liberals hate free speech. No one should go to jail or pay millions for free speech.

He has a right to his opinions. If you don't like it, then don't listen to him.

When do all Christians get sued for saying Homosexuality is wrong , when bible says it is?

[supercutebutt]

Will you please seek help?

[zagor]

5 mil to every family, and he should be given a two-year suspended sentence, suspended on the condition that he never work in broadcast media again.

[Still-alive]

Itd be great if he got life but ill take maybe 20-30 years.

[purplepoppy]

There's no such thing of freedom of speech because someone else always picks up the tab.