The war in Ukraine is 1-year old…what are your thoughts about the Russian invasion & war there, and how should the war be brought to a close?

[Anonymous]

Reference article: https://www.ft.com/content/4351d5b0-0888-4b47-9368-6bc4dfbccbf5

[the-mad-german]

Well i think this war started with the Overthrow of the old ukrainian government. I cannot prove it, but i believe there were certain agencies involved in this. And i think Zelensky is not that much interested in the well being of the ukrainian people. In the end... you need to ask yourself who profits from this war?

Its not Putin, its not Ukraine, its not Europe... only the US and the Arms industry profit massively. Nato (wich is basically the appendix of the US) expands towards Russia. They successfully destroyed the relatively good relations between Russia and many european nations. They sell ludicrous amounts of arms and (europeans pay for it), they still import records sums of russian oil for cheap, the economy in germany and other nations is shattered and ultimately the US can finally sell their fracking gases.

[Asker]

Putin had his troops invade Ukraine to gain more territory (like was previously done to the Crimean Peninsula) to add to Russia.

[the-mad-german]

Yes and Zelensky had his troops are out to destroy the whole Donbas region. Since 2014 he and his nazi-friends fire artillery, cluster mines, incendiary grenades and other nice stuff at the people he now claim to "defend"

[Asker]

Your GAG username makes sense.

[Chad345]

This is like Hitler invading countries in World War II. If Putin gets away with this, he'll keep going, and China will start up. It will prove that crime DOES pay. I have no idea how the war will end, but the Russians need to be kicked out of Ukraine for good.

[Asker]

Great answer.
Appeasement didn’t stop Hitler’s aggressions prior to WW2, it just fueled them.

[Chad345]

Thanks for the MHO!

[Asker]

You’re welcome

[Aerissa_Jade]

Probably when Putin dies or the Russian people get tired of all the restrictions on their freedoms and decides to protest, that of course results in them being arrested and then being sent to Ukraine.

Maybe the people will revolt against the government with time.

People defending their home are worth far more than invaders who don't want to be there.

[Asker]

I agree.
The problem is that a protracted war in Ukraine devastates Ukraine & its people, and Russia (maybe money-and-materiel backed by China in the future) can play a “siege-and-destruction/we’ve got more expendable troops then you do” waiting game with respect to Ukraine.

[Asker]

* than you do

[DeeDeeDeVour]

I'm quite tired of this.

I just resort to humoring myself by saying "If I could talk to Vlad, I'd tell him to 'cut it out' already."

[Asker]

You can only reason with a reasonable person.

[Jerre]

I thin the war ends when Putin dies later this year.

[Jerre]

Thank you for the Like

[Asker]

You’re welcome.
Hopefully something will stop him.

[gorydetails]

I'm sick of my tax dollars being laundered through Ukraine to the democrat party.

[Asker]

You think US aid money to Ukraine is being funneled like that, huh?

[gorydetails]

100% it is.

[Asker]

I had assumed that Ukraine is corrupt and that “poor accounting” of US $ going to the war effort there was going on, but hadn’t heard that $ were being diverted to the Democrats.

[gorydetails]

Why else do you think they are ALL in favor of us sending billions there? Even Bernie Sanders and other notorious non-interventionist dems are quiet.

[Asker]

Hmm…ok.

[Asker]

It could be that those Dems just DON’T want to rock Democrat boat and not fall in lockstep to the decisions made by their Democrat President (and the behind the scenes puppet masters).

[Asker]

* and WANT TO fall in lockstep to…

[genericname85]

this is a very unpopular opinion: but if we just had kept our hands off and let russia win, that would have been better for litterally everyone involved except for the usa. less people would have died. less debt would have been created. the geopolitical situaion would have been stabilized... but no. USA decided to make the maximum profit from this situation.

[Asker]

I see you are German.
…Who is “we”?…”The West”?

“ Let[ting] Russia win” and do what they want/take what territory they want isn’t a good strategy—that’s appeasement and is what the US & Europe did w Hitler in the 1930s after Hitler annexed Austria & the Czech Sudetenland; and not previously stopping Hitler’s aggressions led to him invading Poland and precipitated World War 2.

[genericname85]

by "we" i mean NATO.

so if your argument is that we can not allow russias expansion, then in your opinion, what should russia have done every time the nato expanded towards russia in the last decades? and if we are fundamentally so "against war", then why did we support the war in iraq that was based upon a very baltant lie to begin with?

so this situation in the ukraine right now from the point of view of russia was pretty much exactly like the cold war situation in cuba from the point of view of the USA. should usa just have let russia be in cuba and do nothing about it? cause that's pretty much what you're asking from russia by doing nothing about nato entering ukraine.

i know the western propaganda spins it like a glorious act of humanitarian aid to accept ukraine into NATO but for russia, that is a direct threat. cause Ukraine being in NATO means NATO can now place war machinery directly at russias border... which is the case with the war now anyway, so really it would have been stupid by Putin not to start the war. because he would have had the situation of threattening western war equipment near the border in Ukraine either way, so might as well try to get some territory out of it.

[genericname85]

and even though this is a russian propaganda talking point, we may not forget, that the ukrainian government has actually been murdering their pro russian population (which isn't a small minority by the way) since 2014. so i don't understand why we portray ukraine as this "innocent poor oppressed country". it's a corrupt shithole that we shouldn't have supported.

caution again very unpopular opinion: i think we actually should have helped russia with freeing ukraine from their shitty government...

oh and by the way. why do you think that the usa waited so long and played the appeasement politics for so long? for the sole reason that hitler was apparently fucking over the entirety of Europe and also parts of russia pretty good. that was actually in the USAs interest, which is why they waited so long. cause Europe being weak is in their advantage and they can play the hero after the fact either way.

so tl;dr: i am german and part of the "western world" but i don't buy into this western propaganda narrative anymore. not the russian porpaganda either but the "truth" of it clearly lies on niether side.

[genericname85]

by the way, wanna see western propaganda live and in action? look up "did nato promise no expansion to the east?" on google :D hilarious how all this fact checker bullshit popps up first, triyng to gaslight you into forgetting your history lessons that this was a part of the conventions after the cold war.

[Asker]

There’s a big different between sovereign nations aligning together and being added into a defensive organization (NATO), and Russia invading other sovereign countries and annexing another country’s territory.

[genericname85]

You do understand the problem of Ukraine being in the NATO for Russia tho right? Don't think one sided

[Asker]

What’s the problem for Russia about Ukraine and other nations joining the defensive alliance NATO?
…that Russia then can’t invade & wage war on all the countries that they want to because they’ll be deterred from doing so? 😉

[genericname85]

The problem for Russia is that every NATO country can legally host NATO war machinery. So under normal circumstances, NATO can not directly threaten Russia by depositing weapons right at their border. With Ukraine in NATO, they can.

So Russia can not just invade Ukraine? Wouldn't that by logical extension mean trust USA can't just invade Iraq, Afghanistan? Yet nobody intervened there either. Be would Russia not have been right to pump weapons into Iraq, so Iraq could defend Americas unwarranted attack?

[Asker]

Let’s focus this discussion on the RUSSIA-UKRAINE WAR…

Further above you said “Ukraine being in NATO means NATO can now place war machinery directly at russias border... which is the case with the war now anyway, so really it would have been stupid by Putin not to start the war. because he would have had the situation of threattening western war equipment near the border in Ukraine either way, so might as well try to get some territory out of it.”

…and let’s remember the history of the RUSSIA-UKRAINE WAR and what PUTIN/RUSSIA FIRST DID with respect to Ukraine (and NOT what NATO MIGHT DO later):
1. Putin amassed “threatening war equipment” and troops on Ukraine’s border.
2. Putin started the war in Ukraine.
3. Putin took some Ukrainian territory.

[genericname85]

You got what I'm saying. Since this situation of war equipment from NATO being there anyways, it would basically have been dumb from Russia to just let that happen. Yes Putin started that war. But I don't think he would have without the threat of NATO accepting Ukraine.

[genericname85]

I mean realistically. Would not doing anything have been an option for Russia?

[genericname85]

Nato was forcing them in a corner. So blaming the situation on Russia alone is idiotic. Yes they started the war and I'm not saying it's a good thing. But i am saying that this even to me seems like the most logical thing for Russia to do

[Asker]

You misunderstood what i said above…

PUTIN/RUSSIA WAS THE AGGRESSOR WITH RESPECT TO UKRAINE…

1. Putin amassed “threatening war equipment” and troops on Ukraine’s border.
2. Putin started the war in Ukraine.
3. Putin took some Ukrainian territory.

…AND NATO IS RESPONDING TO THOSE AGGRESSIONS.

[genericname85]

Dude i don't disagree with you that Russia is the aggressor. I'm just saying that this aggression is a response to direct threat. If you think the west has no guilt in this war happening, you're deluded by western propaganda.

[genericname85]

Would USA do nothing, if Russia made allies with Cuba, contractually enabling them to station nuclear Alwar heads in Cuba? Would USA just let that happen? Think about it

[Asker]

The “direct threatS” came from points 1-3 above, NOT from NATO.

[Asker]

“Ukraine applie[d] for Nato membership after Russia annexes territory”…

www.theguardian.com/.../ukraine-applies-for-nato-membership-after-russia-annexes-territory

[genericname85]

Dude the guardian is western propaganda. Look at the time line. When did Biden start talking of Ukraine becoming member of the eu. When did Russia start moving troops. Look at the time line and tell me what came first.

[genericname85]

Sorry member of NATO. Not eu

[genericname85]

Why did Russia not attack earlier?

[genericname85]

There's a reason. And you're trying very hard to look past that reason here.

[genericname85]

Ukraine is very important for Russia's strategical access to the Atlantic ocean. This is completely shut down if Ukraine becomes part of NATO. Russia would not have attacked if Biden had not made that threat. Yes Ukraine's application came after. But that doesn't matter for the timeline.

[Asker]

That is speculation.

These are facts:
Russia amassed troops & weapons on Ukraine’s border, Russia invaded Ukraine and started the Ukraine war, and Russia annexed Ukrainian territory. And NATO is a defensive alliance.

[Asker]

Also:
Your previous statement…

“Ukraine is very important for Russia's strategical access to the Atlantic ocean. This is completely shut down if Ukraine becomes part of NATO“

…is false.

Russia previously annexed the Crimean Peninsula away from Ukraine to ensure that Russia had their Sevastopol Naval Base/Black Sea Port.

[Asker]

…and the Crimean annexation happened in March 2014.

[Zayed_]

I don’t care

[Asker]

False. You cared a little to waste time replying to this question instead of just moving on when you saw it.