Why It's Totally Fair That Men Are Expected To Put More Effort Into Dating Than Women Are (From An Evolutionary Perspective)

So men are often like “men are expected to do so much more shit to get a girlfriend! they have to pay for dates, get a good job, etc!“

Even if we disregard the fact that women do need to spend money on dates (makeup, hair, etc - not only do men care more about looks than women do in a longterm mate, but women also have higher beauty standards to live up to, due to makeup and photoshop etc), I wouldn’t actually find it unfair that men have to put more effort into “acquiring a mate.”

Why? Well, “finding a mate” is very often interconnected to reproduction, right? Well, I was just thinking the other day about how annoying it is that it seems that we have to go through so much more effort to reproduce. Pregnancy, childbirth, etc. Then I thought - well, yeah, it does require a man more effort to “acquire a mate” to reproduce with than it does for a woman. So I guess the extra effort that men have to put into “finding a mate” (and thus reproducing) helps to balance out the extra effort that women have to put into reproducing after having already found a mate.

So not only is it totally fair that men have to put more effort into finding a mate, but it would be totally unfair to expect women and men to have to put the same amount of effort into acquiring and keeping a mate, because that would be giving women a double burden & making the effort required to be put into reproduction even more unequal than it already is. (I do still think that women overall put more effort into reproduction than men do, even with the extra effort that men put into actually finding a mate. It really can’t compare to pregnancy and childbirth.)

Why It's Totally Fair That Men Are Expected To Put More Effort Into Dating Than Women Are (From An Evolutionary Perspective)

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What Guys Said 51

  • It really doesn't bother me that guys should be the ones pursuing, and I'm not even into girls who want to pursue. All that is just new age stuff made to empower women and make the guys who lack confidence feel better. Just keep things as they are.

    When a guy pursues, he's doing the choosing too: he picks who he obviously was into, and the rest he wasn't. And it's still probably much more common for a man to pursue and initiate and be successful with it than it is for a woman to do the same thing and be successful with it, because it often comes off as odd for a woman to do that. So it really doesn't bother me for guys to be the initiators.

  • I think guys having to work to provide for the wife while she is pregnant and be the breadwinner in a relationship already balances out the problem without making men look like perves and rapists having to chase around women that just give them the middle finger.

    • (women are less likely to be perceived as aggressors if they do a bit of the chasing themselves). anyway, pregnancy really is not THAT big of a deal.

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    • When did I say any of that? (Aside from the "providing" part.)

    • in your original article you are saying it's fair for men to put in more effort - i. e. approach - and in your posts on here you are conceding that guys should work out by marginalising it (just saying that girls have to work out as well even though fat burning is clearly nowhere near as hard as muscle building). socioeconomic status is tied in with wealth - and you're already conceding that it's required for guys to work to pay for his girl. emotional drama is just something any guy in a relationship is going to have to put up with: more so if the woman is pregnant or has kids.

  • Essentially this is sexual selection theory in a nutshell as I mentioned on my own MyTake. In other words, since women have a lower sexual output, they are the ones who are sought-after and thus possess the luxury to be extremely picky.

    However, I don't necessarily agree that evolution justifies it. If we were to base all of our decisions and moral values off of evolution, then you would also have to concede that rape, infanticide, and patriarchy--which happen quite commonly in the wild--are also justifiable. And I'm sure you wouldn't do that.

    Furthermore, the other issue here is that we are assuming that relationships are based entirely off of reproduction. Many humans are genuinely moved by emotion and the desire for companionship.

    So while evolution can maybe explain some tendencies we have, it can never fully justify them and/or account for the full picture.

  • http://a.fod4.com/misc/darth%20vader%20fuck.gif
    Mostly because this is bebasing to women and not men. From a evolutionary stand point, both men and women have to put in maximum effort. Survival of the fittest yeah? Why do women assume that this only applies to men? Women are on the evolutionary curve too. Sorry, but everybody's gotta work hard.

    • I don't care how withers ex feels about what guys or girls should do. Im going to do what I want to do and if people disagree I don't care. If people agree then thanks for the support. If the girls I'm dating doesn't like splitting the bill 50/50, then I'll find someone else. Screw all this guys do all the heavy lifting. I'm going to go 50% on everything and she Woolworths other 50%. For all those guys out there who pay for all the dates and are required to do all the heavy lifting, your sacrifice has been noted lol.

    • I am with you on this one Cheif, in the evolution cyle women have to make themselvs very attractive and beautiful this will help show their potential mates that they are healty and are able to produce very strong offspirng if we are strictly talking simple bioligy :)

  • Fair. However, accepting double standards based on biology opens a lot of doors, some of which would disadvantage women.

    By that same evolutionary principle, that because women bear children they *should* have to work less at finding a mate, you could also argue it's fair for a man to expect a woman to stay home, "barefoot and pregnant", to better care for the child she's bearing. By your argument, if the purpose of dating is to produce offspring, then it's equally fair to suggest that extra effort he puts in to ensure that shouldn't go to "waste" by a woman working, not breastfeeding for WHO's recommended timeframe, etc... If, by your logic, what's fair in dating is down to evolutionary principles surrounding offspring, it's "fair" for a man to expect a woman to be a housewife.

    Not that I personally agree with this. Nor do I necessarily disagree with your point - whether dating is "fair" or not is irrelevant... it's a matter of choosing who to spend your life with, not a game, so fairness takes a backseat to compatibility and necessity. But it's also worth noting that the birth rate has decreased, and fewer couples than ever are even having children - thus the evolutionary principles of dating don't apply in every situation. If a woman doesn't want children, or doesn't want children until an older age when risk of birth defects increase, her dating life is counter-evolutionary, anyway - which is fine, and each individual's personal choice. But any arguments of evolutionary principles become irrelevant.

  • It doesn't have to cost a fortune for a woman to keep her appearance up. Women wanted jobs and equal pay so now you get to equally pay for dates.

    • 1. Women don't get equal pay.
      2. Being a woman is otherwise much more expensive than being a man. Tampons, pads, pap tests, gyno visits, bras, clothes, etc. Paying money on a date with a woman is the least you can do to show that you acknowledge her plight in society.

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    • Not nearly as much as women g e t exams on their genitals, and there is plenty of free porn on the internet

    • 1. Women do get equal pay (recent studies have even shown that women, in higher paying fields, tend to make more than men in the same fields). The wage gap has long been debunked, when considering factors like women take far more time off than men and, until the past 10 years or so, have generally had less higher education and historically went for lower paying jobs (which has since changed). It's also been proven that women with the same credentials are twice as likely to be hired as a man with those credentials.
      2. Men have to pay for clothes and doctor's visits, too. Women's health also has far more free and subsidized services than men's health (ie: though prostate cancer kills more men than breast cancer kills women, I've yet to hear of a free prostate exam - yet I have heard of men being turned down for free breast exams).

  • Seriously, first you choose to use makeup. I beg my wife not to use it the female body is a work of art. Maybe your insecurity is the problem. Why don't men wear makeup, because we are not that hung up on our looks there are more important things about us we need to worry about. Women are to worried about what everyone thinks about them. Second, you have the ability to carry a living being inside you which any woman I know says is an amazing experience, you will feel a connection to your child a man will never have. You act like it's a curse yet it's not required for a happy/healthy relationship. Last both parties should be trying to satisfy their partner in every way then there would be a lot less relationship problems.

  • noone cares about your uneducated opinion. women are lucky to have us in their lives not the opposite. with such a mindset prepare yourself for lots of loneliness... .

    • You're the one uneducated because research shows that men have more psychological and physical benefits from marriage than women do

  • Dare I explain the obvious?

    Okay, lets look at looks. Women are expected by society to have great hair, makeup, a great body and to dress a certain way.

    What about men? We are also expected to have great hair, body and clothes. We may not be expected to wear makeup, but what we ARE expected to have is height.

    Now let's look at children and pregnancy. A big pet peeve about you women is that you act like we are forcing you to go through pregnancy and have kids. There are many, many relationships out there were the couple doesn't have any kids and are perfectly stable. Nobody is forcing you to give birth so stop using that as a reason.

    One final thing. Why should we as men stay if you're not going to put as much into it was we are? You're not entitled to a man who puts in his 100% if you're not putting in yours just because of your biology. All not putting everything you have into a relationship while making him put in everything is going to do is show him you don't appreciate or care about him. Now I want you to tell me right now why any self respecting man would stay with a woman who shows she doesn't care. He wouldn't. He's just gonna leave to find a better girl who will appreciate him and you would have lost a perfectly good man.

  • Keeping your point of view in eyes, It is not necessary that the girl a guy is trying to date with all the effort will eventually become pregnant or reproduce a child, reproduction comes at very last, before that a guy has to keep asking many girls to date and present himself as a complete product package do the girl will show some interest in buying, I am 27 and still a dateless although I am very decent and honest and I am doing job well to do, it is still vwry sad to see that most of the girls demands nowadays are out of my reach even a girl who already have dated 10 of men is picky over me and I need to prove myself and chances are no luck 85%, although I get offer from only girls who are single mother, well I put in lots of efforts and I am not even responsible for her pregnancy and reproduction thing, I can't even say anything about that else girls will back fire and start labelling me and say different stuff to me, well when all the time I was trying to be a perfect match she have enjoyed casual sex with many guys and by her fault and mistake or maybe by her personal will she became pregnant to someone else so now it fair for me to have this? I spent all those lonely years put all effort but girls were picky never dated me even though i was ready to get married not just have fun and leave a girl I was sober and still lonely all those years, and count those all efforts I put in for single date and at last I get a call from a girl who have kid? And that is not even mine, don't you think it would be unfair? An asshole have fun with you all the time and leave a bump for me? Lets calculate what he got, he got fun but no responsibility he doesn't have to raise a child which is actually his outcome, he doesn't have to commit with anything, he was the first to have your body, I come at last and feels like I am just good husband material wasted my life just to raise someone else kid, this all things goes very unfair sometimes, I am sorry if i sounded rude and harsh but this thought almost make me cry on knees it sounds very unfair to me, If you are a divorced girl with a kid I respect you and marry you but if you wasted it all for fun and having sex with assholes in live in relationships without commitment then I am so sorry, I would prefer to stay alone then, I am not a use and throw material, I have my diginity, I was also starving for fun but I don't want to be unfair with people who thinks like me.

  • You didn't mention the fact that guys are still expected to be the initiators

  • I'm not sure why so many people are up in arms about this. LOL

    I mean, it's an undeniable fact that women have FAR greater reproductive costs, and therefore they should be choosier as a result. And them being able to be choosy means that men compete for them in one way or the other.

    I really hope I don't come across as hoity-toity, but I think that most people who complain about this arrangement just haven't found success with women -- thus the griping.

    • What everyone is glossing over is the fact that we haves TOO many people already.
      Thus further reproduction, will only lead to note crime, war and famine.
      Being able to bring more of what there is already too much of IS NOT something you should attach value to. That's an idiotic argument.

    • More*
      Typing on my dumb phone.

  • Evolution of the Homo sapiens species has taken place over millions of years. I'm not a historian but I am pretty sure the "beauty" component only came into fruition over the past few thousand years. I'm fairly certain that prehistoric humans didn't have access to the Almay section at Sears.

    On a side note though... I don't ever pay for a girl on our first date... if she doesn't like it... well she's more than welcome to find someone else. That's me enhancing my evolution by protecting myself!

  • I don't care to be honest. Most of the effort I put is for/to myself, and myself only. I strive to be smarter, well, train myself mentally and learn new things, to be physically fit and stronger as much as I can, or have time to do so, and even though I don't expect to be a millionaire, I want to be succesful in my own career.

    If any girl appreciates that, and puts up with the fact that my career goes first then great, if not, then that's good too.

    From an evolutionary standpoint, as you say, men are supposed to be the catch if they wanted to, not the other way around. And men are also supposed to be the providers (finantially), and protectors (physically).

    That's why rich men, powerful men and physically strong/fit men don't have to do much when it comes to dating and meeting women. Because they're the flames, and girls are the moths to them. Bam! That's why egocentric and narcissist men are the most succesful in relationships. Not all of us have that attitude, but we all should strive for it
    .. "from an evolutionary standpoint".

  • Well now that lots of men don't want children or marriage, this will really bite women in the ass

    • Men do not simply exist to cater to their emotional or evolutionary needs, so you're right.
      Men are individuals with free will.

  • I came here for the sole purpose of telling you that anything coming "from an evolutionary perspective" is bullshit.
    We're humans, not animals. Or more like, we're more human than we are animal.

  • That is the most petty, completely bullshit take I have ever read.
    most men, like myself, prefer no makeup. Makeup is all about women, not men. so don't try and pawn that off on us.
    dna is dna, you can't pawn off childbirth on men.
    Basically, women want equality except when it comes to everything other then pay and jobs. You want the guy to chase you, you want use to pay for date, yada yada..

    • I don't want equality, I want equity (fairness). Women already have so much shit to deal with, it's only fair that men be expected to deal with some things in compensation.

      & You think you prefer no makeup but most women you see, who look good with "no makeup", are actually wearing natural-looking makeup.

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    • what do men go through that women don't?
      From what I understand, most of the things men go through that women don't, only happen to a minority of men.
      For example, more men than women get murdered... But only 1% of men get murdered. So it doesn't really compare because 81% of women give birth. Whereas most men will never experience something that painful. & Before you mention getting kicked in the balls, that doesn't last 8+ hours.

    • Opie, you are pretty fking ignorant. Men go through just as much as shit as women do. its just different kind of bullshit. And its not just minority men. And also , a man in his accumulative years of lide has usually gome through more pain than women. Even with the pregnancy. Thats why men have probably naturally more pain tolerance. So if i said that maybe delivery is a way of evening up that, wouldn't you think tjat would sound pretty fkinh ignorant? And by the way, at least its acceptable for women to bitch about it. As men you have to man the fuck up and walk it off.

  • To a degree true but really simplistic - The main reason I say this is I am not 100% convinced by this finding a mate theory - I am a great believer in things just happen, men and women should just look after themselves, do what they wish to feel comfortable about themselves and if they are lucky enough to find someone so be it - If they settle down and have kids, they should share the duties and responsibility as equally as possible according to their capabilities.

  • Oh lawd jeezus... the feminism is strong with this one...

    • Not really. I do consider myself a feminist but I think a lot of feminists would disagree with me on this, as well as some other beliefs I have.

    • You're confused, mate... Which is understandable since you subscribe to reactionary political movements like feminism... Mainstream feminism is run by the psychos and sociopaths of the movement... Reproduction is hardly the burden you believe it is. It's a choice which yields it's own rewards which may or may not appeal to you. It's the same with physical and emotional intimacy. In the single-minded quest for gender-equality, some misguided feminists fail to see that while men and women may have seemingly incongruous stakes in forming strong enriching relationships and raising healthy families, power and agency are distributed equitably between the sexes.

  • Let's go over a few flaws:

    1) You assume that all women will eventually bear children. This is absolutely false. I've dated 3 women, none of whom I impregnated. So why was I expected to "do more" if she never had my children?

    2) Most of the women I know, who have children, requested maternal leave. Most of their husbands requested extra hours at work, sometimes "double shifts" to prepare for the child. That's where the "balance" occurs.

    I will agree that there should be some level of additional effort on the males part. But, not because the woman he is dating may or may not become pregnant.

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What Girls Said 10

  • Some sort of a quid pro quo. I concur with the idea, but you'll be getting A LOT of BUTTHURT comments from dudes on here... o. O

    • Well how about I tell you that because of your genitals, you automatically are assigned a job-you have no free will of your own, and the main purpose of your existence is to cater to my needs.
      How would you react?
      Telling a man he owes women special treatment simply because, is no better than telling a woman she owes me sex simply because.

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    • Ok. Just point out what others are doing instead of actually participating in the discussion.
      That's helpful.
      A moderator should remove you from this thread.

    • MyTake Owner. Explain to me why Theodore Roosevelt has supreme authority, and why his opinion trumps any argument that stands in it's way?

  • SO true. Women have higher standards to by men to be pleasing to the male eye so that they can be worthy of any kind of relationship. All a man's gotta do is have a good personality and be average looking.

  • Well I don't see how that's fair at all. Men can't be blamed for the way biology works, I don't see how biology is unfair in any way. A woman's body is different from a man's and functions differently but just because they work differently from each other doesn't mean someone was cheated and therefore has it worse. Childbirth and pregnancy aren't relevant at all to the dating world. For a marriage most definitely but certainly not a movie and dinner date. If a woman doesn't want to experience pregnancy and childbirth then don't have sex. It's as simple as that. Don't perform the act of reproduction if you don't want to reproduce.

  • True to an extent.

  • i feel that both need to put the same amount of effort! this doesn't work one way... it should be balanced

    • But then after that, women have to put more work into reproduction. That's not fair.

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    • You've clearly never been pregnant if you think that men "dealing with our morning sickness" is ANYWHERE near equality with the pain women go through during pregnancy.

    • but still my point is guys anyways do a lot for us in their own ways... relationships r about equality

  • We are passed that... we are not living along side the neanderthals anymore! The reason for that is that homosapiens EVOLVE and CHANGE if we stay stagnant in our neatly packaged little roles forever we will stop moving forward. If we refuse to change we will end up extinct like the rest of our ancestors.

    • Yeah but if women still have to have their evolutionary reproductive burden (pregnancy and childbirth) why are we going to get rid of men's? So that women are the ones left with all of the burden. That's unfair.

    • You are overcomplicating things, it's a bit immature.

  • Women should quit making excuses why guys should try harder.

    Their you want a man or not
    Don't expect him to give you the world.

    You want money get a job,
    Then you can afford make up etc..
    As for dates it's better to go half and half.

    Women's standards are so high
    If I was a guy I would turn gay.
    Or be single.

  • GREAT take! Most republican and democratic men would agree with you. Unfortunately beta liberals make up the majority of the population these days, so they expect women to take on traditional male roles and vice versa. It's a bit sad. If you're a man, be a man! If you're a woman, be a woman! Nothing wrong with that.. in fact, it's natural.

    • So what are you giving in return? If he gives resources for the rights to reproduce do you then provide unconditional sex to him seeing as how he is expected to give unconditional resources to you? Most women think that they should be pampered but then not actually do anything to earn it. A man gives his resrouces to reproduce and to have his child cared for yet in our society a man gives his resources, reproduces when SHE decides it and then he and her care for the child equally (even as he workes more hours then she does (statisticly proven)). He wishes to have exclusive rights to reproduction but she wishes to give those rights away for free while demanding that he pay for it. In short you can live in a traditional way which makes perfect sense it follows our biology very well which is why we did it for so long, or you can do the modern thing and do as you wish when you wish without obligation, just don't expect him to feel obligated to follow the traditional role that you shirk.

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    • @CancerianMan81 Yes it is, laws don't work unless people follow them and enforce them but since the very people expected to apply them are bias themselves it really doesn't change things (courts favor women in all respects, hence women getting a third of the sentencing that a man would for commiting the same crime). Yet its constantly being twisted as if the father getting to call his children once a week is the same as full or partial custody.

  • You gave an explanation, but not a proper justification. I was actually hoping you would touch on Bateman's Principle, since it makes a stronger case for the reason behind women taking a passive role.

    There is no reason for us not to make the first move more often. You give birth, *if* you decide to have children. While it's a heavy 9 months, that does not justify taking a passive attitude.

    "(makeup, hair, etc - not only do men care more about looks than women do in a longterm mate, but women also have higher beauty standards to live up to, due to makeup and photoshop etc)"

    Actually, nobody is forcing you to follow these standards. Besides, men face standards too. "Oh you're under 6'0? Bye!"

    • "nobody is forcing you to follow these standards." Nobody's forcing men to put more effort into dating than women do, either.
      But it's expected. So is women looking their best.

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    • and in case you don't know about the suicide rate here's an article www.suicide.org/...ational-suicide-statistics.html

  • This whole take sounds like an excuse to me.

    • Of course it is!
      The take owner is just going to justify every point she tries to make simply because she wants to be right. Not even a bevy of logical refutes has stopped her from trying rationalize her entitlements.

    • @Jimrat86 sounds about right

    • We have the same opinion, and the same last name.