Am I too intimidating to women?

[Anonymous]

I'm a full-time student and I work full-time but I am trying to squeeze a social life into it, specifically dating. I am not arrogant but I'm pretty confident in my looks. I have been told by friends that I have the whole "pretty boy" face going on. I keep in great shape as well. Anyway, I am generally a very nice person no matter who I'm talking to. I usually get along with everyone and end up finding a common interest with everyone I meet. I don't have high standards when it comes to dating so I'm not too picky about who I spend time with.

Lately, I have been trying to meet more girls, either on campus, work, or anywhere (Starbucks, supermarket, etc.). I usually engage in small talk but 1/30 girls ends up being a friendship (most become the dreaded Facebook friends that you never talk to again). The thing that bugs me is that I'm never approached by women, not even in bars, YET, I am constantly in situations where a girl is indicating something with body language, specifically close proximity (practically touching), smiling, and constant staring by some. When I say close proximity, I'm also adding that some girls I've met do this more than once so it's not just a coincidence.

Like I said, I feel great about how I look but I can't possibly look so good that nobody approaches me, can I? Maybe my neutral face isn't so inviting? I know everyone is shy once in awhile but that doesn't mean that one out of who knows how many girls can't say a word or start a conversation.

The other problem I have is girls I actually flirt with where there appears to be a mutual attraction of some kind tend to be in relationships or even married! (and I'm not mistaking their flirting for being nice).

So what should I do about this? Should I accept that I have to approach women and move on or is there secret advice that gets these girls to actually start a conversation? Any advice, specifically from a woman's perspective would be great. Thanks!

Updates

+1 y

When I'm working out, I end my routine with a 40-minute walk, the girls who come up to the cardio machines to exercise tend to get on the treadmill next to me when they have all the space in the world, so this may be a sign of attraction.

[superasker]

I was just about to log off and do my homework until I read this.

You completely and utterly underestimate women. How important do you think looks are to a women in the grand scheme of things? I'm sounding harsh because you need a kick in the ass. They are 10x less shallow than men are.

First of all, YES, you have to accept you have to approach women, it doesn't matter if you're brad pitt or george clooney. Approaching women is a sign of confidence. Make them laugh. Make them think you are the best thing since sliced bread.

And buddy, clearly you don't know anything about what attraction is - attraction means that girls never want to leave you alone - and that you make them feeling something that makes them want to find out more. It's how you make a girl feel at the end of the day. The fact that you are getting NOTHING despite all your natural assets tells me one thing - you are relying on your looks way too much and forgetting about personality.

So what you should do? Really, the answer is simple. Approach women by saying "hi". Talk to them and listen to them and find out who they are. If they keep talking to you, it means they like you. Don't be a meathead.

Please, if you have questions, ASK.

[dsmith09]

WELL SAID omg hahah

[OutOfMyElement43]

I just going to assume that on a 1-10 scale your a 9-10 in the looks department. You may attract women. However, a 9-10 girl will stand beside you, give you all the cues, but she's going to wait for you to approach. You can pretty much bet the 9-10 girl is not going to walk up and ask you out.

My question is this: "why are you waiting for a girl to approach you?" I'm going to give you a homework assignment. Walk up to 5 random girls on the 8-10 attractiveness scale and just say: "Hi, My name is ___. Let's have lunch one day" If you get 2 out of the 5 of the girls to give you her contact info, you're a guy girls find very attractive. If none of them give you their contact info, start aiming lower. We are all that superficial.

[The_Box]

I'm baaaaaack! ;)

"We are all that superficial." - How do you explain a statement like that when there are people who simply don't follow that rule? Wouldn't that make your theory full of crap no matter how much it makes sense?

[OutOfMyElement43]

Are you going to stalk me box? I actually enjoy trying to talk some sense into you. I think we've had some pretty good discussions, but I'm going to ignore you if you start acting like an idiot. I'm going to entertain your question, but you're on thin ice. Ok, I conceed that there are very few people who "don't follow the rule." Though, I have a question Box, "would YOU date someone to whom you felt absolutly no physical attraction?" Answer honestly!

[The_Box]

Maybe. As long as you keep spouting your doctrine, I'll continue to keep smacking you down. ;) But then again, it's not like I'm not raising a legitimate point. I would really like to see to what lengths and under what circumstances you will stick to that argument.

When you say very few people do you mean 10%? 1%? 0.1% 1e-8%? I'd say anything over 1% has some significant substance to it that can't be disregarded.

[The_Box]

As for the question of physical attraction. It is hard for me to judge such things personally because in my only cases of attraction, the physical part happened retroactively, oddly enough. I found beauty in her looks after I had applied that beauty to her personality. In other words, the girls who I was attracted to were not as beautiful until I made them so.

[OutOfMyElement43]

I don't want to try quantify "a few;" because, I know it's complete supposition on my part. I have no statisics to back me up. But, I know you're Box. If I don't give you a number, you'll say you've blown my argument. I'll entertain you by saying < 1%, but I already know what your up to. When you've run out of argument, the number will be your last resort. I want you to tell me how you found personality before beauty. Did she have a glowing Aura? If so, what color?

[The_Box]

Forget the number then. I don't run out of argument. If you had said something like 10% I might have been able to grasp that a bit though.

As for how I was able to find personality first, it's because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. This girl revealed herself to me to be fun, nice, cute, interesting etc as I kinda casually got to know her. And it was after that that who I might have rated a 6 or 7 before, skyrocketed to a 10. My mind had redefined beauty based on her.

[The_Box]

Really, my previous preferences didn't matter.

I liked blonde hair. She had black.

I liked blue eyes. She had green.

I liked tan skin. She had pale.

I liked big boobs. She had small ones.

I liked women closer to my height. She was short.

And the list goes on.

[OutOfMyElement43]

I'll agree with most of what you said. You meet a girl, and after you get to know her she moves up a few notches on the 1-10 scale. All men do this, you can thank your hypothalamus and estrogen like hormones your body produces. When boy meet girl boy gets week, boy wants to show girl what a good long term partner he'll be. However, there must first be a physical attraction to start the process. A women's response works the other way around. If girl likes boy, boy slides down a few spots.

[OutOfMyElement43]

When girl is attracted to boy, she becomes more judicious and cautious. Her body is asking: "do we want to waste an egg." This is why girls can play hard to get and men can't. You're mind didn't redefine her beauty; she's still a 6 or 7. The chemical reaction that's set off by attraction made you an idiot. In 90 days, she's going to look like a 6 or 7 again.

[The_Box]

In 90 days? This has been going on for over a year without signs of wearing off. I'd estimate at this rate, it won't change until I find someone new or if I take drastic measures.

But really even if there was a physical attraction to start the process, how does that at all relate towards "aiming lower" or being superficial. I've clearly demonstrated how I used a small amount of physical attraction and expanded it to the point where I wouldn't have any other preference physically.

[OutOfMyElement43]

"We are all that superficial;" because, there has to be attraction to start the process. I promise you. If a guy is a 5, the chance of finding a girl that's a 10, whose physically attracted to Mr. 5, is unlikey to the point of impossible. This is not my doctrine; it's in every biology text book. If you're with a girl much less attractive than you, you're in my <1%. To the objective observer your probably equally attractive. Regardless, congradulations happiness is really what matters most.

[The_Box]

Well then answer me this:

Let's say that to start such a process as I did with the afore mentioned girl, she needs to be at least a 6 if some sort of physical attraction is needed.

Now you'd say that the probability that a 6 would not find anyone less than a 5 or so to be attractive due to your afore mentioned reasons.

As a 3-4, am I not completely and utterly SOL?

[OutOfMyElement43]

Regarding my comment "aiming lower," if you're Mr. 5 and constantly striking out with 10's, you'll do better chasing 5's. If you're in the minor league and you bat a .200 because god didn't give you the ability to hit a curve ball, baseball isn't superficial for keeping you in the minors. The simple fact is you can't hit a curve ball. The MBL isn't going to change the rules so you can play in the major league.

[OutOfMyElement43]

I'll put it this way there is randomness in natural selection. There are women who have a Santa Clause fetish, and will f*** any guy in a Santa suit, but I'm not going to dress as Santa and listen to a bunch of snot nose kids tell me what they want for Christmas, while I'm waiting for Mrs, Right. If I want to breed, there are economics involved.

[The_Box]

Well f***. I am doomed. How come you couldn't just say that before?

[OutOfMyElement43]

I doubt you're doomed. We wandered way off the subject of the guy's orginal question, and back on the debate of "does changeing your behavior increase your chances with more beautiful women." The answer is no. You can change your apperance or increase your wealth, but being cocky/funny isn't going to land you a hot babe. I want to save some guys a lot of money. Guys should take a more realistic approach to dating, and quit with the dating gurus their money. I think you're smart and will do well

[The_Box]

I was right. You don't have the guts to tell me I'm doomed to my face.

Yet you've proved it every step of the way:

-I say I need at least a 6.

-You say I have to be at least a 5.

-I am a 4.

-I can't get what I need.

Sounds pretty clear cut. Now unless you've got something to object to, tell me I'm doomed.

[OutOfMyElement43]

I'll tell you your doomed when your 30, and you're living in your mom's basement. You're 17; you're not doomed. You've barely began. The only thing that can doom you in life is "making bad decisions." If you're going to continue to be a malcontent, you're doomed. There I said it. Don't be a malcontent!

[The_Box]

So I decided to be a 4?

Really, I don't see how that related to what you said before. Don't expand this beyond the scope of what I'm trying to say. If I need to be a 5 and I'm a 4, what way could I get around that logic?

[The_Box]

I know I'm being annoying playing the martyr right now. But you either have to surrender that position, or strike me down. This has nothing to do with being malcontent, it has everything to do with looks, like you said.

[OutOfMyElement43]

First if you want an absolute conclusion to a debate, you must first frame the debate. This is a nebulous prolonged discussion not a debate. We could go on forever with this. There?s no way to ?strike you down.? I think you know this already; ergo, you want to push me to the point of surrendering my position. Don?t think I?m stupid. I?m not surrendering hard science for ?new age bull crap.? If you want a debate, frame one. We?ll argue merit for merit. An apple is not an orange.

[Asker]

Thanks for the advice. That line about girls giving the cues and waiting for me was what I was looking for. A few people below mistook this for a "I'll never get a girlfriend post" even though I've already been in a few relationships. I suppose I should have been more direct and less vague, maybe asking questions about female body language. That probably would have worked out better.

[Asker]

Thanks for the response. That part about cues and waiting for the approach was close to what I was looking for. A few people below mistook this for a "Why don't girls like me?!" question even though I've already explained that I talk to new people all the time and I've already been in a few relationships. I should have kept it simple and asked about body language and cues rather than write a novel.

[OutOfMyElement43]

To QA: Teachers expect more from the smartest students; very attractive girls generally expect more from very attractive guys. A lot of attractive people sit home alone on a Saturday night, just as honor students spend more time in the library. The better you are at doing the more others expect you to do!

[OutOfMyElement43]

Box: I guess I have to surrender a few points. My fiancee said: "You (me) are atttactive, but your (my) personality is really what draws people in." I won't surrender the discussion, but I will surrender a couple of points.

[The_Box]

My point was that if you can say all 4's are doomed to not get 6's, why can you not say that I as a 4 am not doomed? You would have either have had to have concluded I too was doomed or have said that 4's can get 6's.

[DanteThomas]

This stood out the most from what you wrote: NO CONFIDENCE. You keep repeating that you have confidence and you aren't arrogant and etc. but then you contradict yourself by being uncertain on so many levels.

[Asker]

A person without confidence would probably be complaining about their personal flaws (i.e. I look bad, I'm fat, I am not smart) and add something like,"I'm never getting married" or "Why don't girls like me?" Being unsure, specifically with body language and when to approach a woman is an entirely different situation. Reevaluate your thinking and stop typing cliched, typical advice.

[DanteThomas]

You have no confidence. You talk like you have confidence. Talk is cheap. If you had the confidence you praised on yourself then this situation would not have happen. It sounds like you can't handle the truth. Talk about having a big ego.

[DanteThomas]

I'll tell you what you aren't. A real man has balls. A confident man will ask. You sir, are neither. You're just an immature arrogant boy in self denial who is putting on the impression that you're tough to make up for what you lack.