Why I, as an Australian, am Against School Uniforms

[Ironlak282]

Before I lay out my reasoning let me just state that I am aware of the cons of no uniform policies, to keep it simple I am only going to list the points for my position. I don't support kids getting bullied however what I do support is giving people the tools to deal with the real world.

First of all probably the most common argument in support of school uniforms is that it makes everyone "equal" or on the same playing field and reduces bullying. The problem is that these class differences still exist but instead of teaching kids how to overcome these differences and look past them their hidden instead, a quick fix. Free dress lets kids see other kids true nature and teaches them how to deal with nasty shallow people rather than give them a false impression of others as accepting and retard their personal development.

Secondly it teaches kids to be tolerant of diversity that everyone is their own person and does not need to conform to the majority. It teaches kids that we don't live in a fair world, that some people are going to have to work a lot harder than others to see success in their lives. Other points include:

* It makes kids less respectful of authority and more likely to question it, especially if it is being used for evil.

* It allows kids to search for an independent identity during adolescence and let's them transition into adulthood with ease.

* It teaches kids to be more respectful of themselves and other people's rights as things that are worthy of respect and not to be impeached.

* It gives kids an unfiltered view of reality, class differences and all and teaches them to be tough minded individuals.

* Restricting ones freedom to express oneself through clothing lowers the mood of kids and makes for unhappy students.

Would love to hear all of your opinions on this one!

[ak666]

I'm in favor of uniforms. I went to schools with and without throughout my youth and just saw the ones with uniforms as superior in terms of how classmates cooperated.

>> The problem is that these class differences still exist but instead of teaching kids how to overcome these differences and look past them their hidden instead, a quick fix.

The problem as I see it is that if you look at some American public schools, they can be a horrible place. They are not at all like Saved by the Bell. Poor kids who can't dress in nice clothes get bullied left and right. Students end up segregating themselves by ethnicity and affluence in the school cafeteria. Black kids don't sit next to white kids, they have their own sections. Poor kids don't sit next to rich kids, they have their own sections.

Schools with uniforms can still have cliques and still have bullying. A uniform doesn't make everyone cooperative, and especially not on its own. Yet just in terms of promoting unity and cooperation, I think they do a better job.

At the very least, to do without uniforms, I think teachers and parents need to do a far superior job of raising mature kids.

[ak666]

Uniforms might not do much with respect to reducing racial conflict, e. g., but there were so many times I saw kids being picked on because their parents got their clothes from Wal-Mart, e. g. They couldn't afford nice clothes. Uniforms would at least eliminate that type of discrimination.

[ak666]

>> It gives kids an unfiltered view of reality, class differences and all and teaches them to be tough minded individuals.

This overall line of thinking I like and I *do* believe that the right kind of adversity can create tough, mentally strong individuals who are better equipped to persevere and face any obstacles life throws their way.

Unfortunately the public education system in America is way too flawed to have this effect. Children coming from poverty often face a vicious downward spiral in school. They're easily identified in large part due to their clothing and are made to feel like rejects by their classmates. Their grades start to suffer and their teachers also start to believe they're rejects. They lack quality parenting coming from poverty.

They then turn to their peers: other poor people who are also treated as rejects, and they form cliques among themselves: a clique of social rejects. Then the people in these cliques often drop out, join a gang, turn to crime.

[ak666]

The net result is that America public education fails where it most needs to succeed: to elevate people out of poverty. Education is the best hope of that, and kids who are identified as poor often fail to develop the incentive to pursue it.

As a result I don't think it's a good idea to paint a giant bulls-eye on a poor kid, and right now I think the lack of uniforms is doing precisely that.

[ak666]

A lot of poor kids also come from broken homes. They don't have both of their parents and that's often linked to poverty. So a lot of these already lack sufficient parenting to give them the type of values and mindset that will allow them to become strengthened by adversity rather than weakened by it. Right now, I really think America would benefit from uniforms, if only to help those kids from poor backgrounds blend in a little better.

[Ironlak282]

I'm not from the United States i'm from Australia where there is less gang culture especially youth gang culture although with immigration it is growing unfortunately. At least where I live I find it difficult to spot class difference based on clothing, it's more crappy tattoos that stick out. I guess I feel that it's better poor or awkwardly dressed kids have people who accept them for who they really are than have faux friends. Perhaps we just need good teachers who motivate and believe in all of their students.

[Ironlak282]

High quality teaching really does seem to be the solution to the issues you have raised. Teachers who try to instill in their students the kinds of values you are talking about. Motivation to improve your situation as well as promoting genuine acceptance by looking past others differences rather than pretending they don't exist.

[ak666]

Yeah, it might be case-by-case. Just going by the US, I think public education is kind of a disaster. It has become so centralized in a way that has brought many of them down to the lowest common denominator.

The centralized control has made it so teachers can't tailor the curriculum in a way they feel is best suited for their particular students. That also tends to demotivate them since they are handed a strict curriculum to follow, taking away a great deal of the creative approach to teaching and also a lot of the competitive incentive to try to get their students to excel as much as possible for national tests.

[Schrodingerscat]

I am in favor of uniforms.
- In corporate office, there's an unwritten dress code. All formal clothing is worn. Can I go to job in crop tops, denims and sneakers? No. Why not same can be applied to schools?
- Class differences won't go away until society as a whole changes. In your school, you are taught to look past class but when you get out of school, the whole world around you judges people from their class.
- So yes, to bring some kind of uniformity, the uniforms are necessary
- It creates a disciplined environment
- You can express yourself through clothing outside school too. Just like I can't "express myself through clothing" at work by turning up in shorts and Hawaiian shirt.

[Ironlak282]

I think that uniforms for work are more a necessity than at a school however as many jobs have them so customers can identify employees which is not as vital at a school. I also don't think everyone judges class.

[Ironlak282]

Also some jobs don't require uniforms and the ones that do require them where employes don't need to be identified by customers/clients I would argue should do without.

[Schrodingerscat]

I am talking about jobs like manager, engineers etc. You have to wear formals in your firm or workplace.
Since you mentioned identification, uniforms also make it easier to identify students from school when out on an excursion.

[Ironlak282]

That's why I said uniforms at work are "more" of a necessity than at school. A lot of jobs like that require you to dress formally but they don't preselect an outfit for you.

[Ironlak282]

You said their is an unwritten dress code in a corporate office. That's what I'm asking for a dress code rather than a uniform policy. The dress codes at school are just more relaxed.

[zagor]

Never went to a school that had them; the only one near me I am aware of is an all-girls Catholic HS.

It seems it would be very strange to have everyone dressed alike.

[Ironlak282]

Your very lucky mate uniforms are the norm in Australia where I grew up and most of the world. You sort of just assume adults have your best interests in mind but after looking into it I think I was screwed over.

[Musicismysoul]

Also, uniforms don't even stop bullying. If you forget your uniform one day, you might be bullied for that.

[Ironlak282]

Lmao trust me if uniforms become the norm in your environment you won't. Nobody forgets to wear uniforms In my country and I'm still against them.