She's not a bitch. She's just not into you.

[Bluemax]

Why so pale and wan fond lover?
Prithee why so pale?
Will, when looking well can’t move her,
Looking ill prevail?

So wrote the poet John Suckling. Having heard quite a few women relate to me that when they have rejected a man, they are sometimes met with a lot of foul names and horrible feelings (and I am NOT saying sadness is a horrible feeling, I'm talking anger), I decided to sound off on this very subject. I'll deal with it on two levels. First, I would like to tell the guys who cut loose with a few choice words after rejection that you're hurting yourself. Secondly, you are hurting another human being who doesn't deserve to be hurt.

So how does calling her a bitch (or worse) hurt the rejected? Well, a lot of couples met through friends. You don't know that if you keep things friendly with her (and please note I said "friendLY" the "ly" is important), you might meet some of her friends at a later time and it's possible you might like some of them and vice versa. Of course this will almost certainly never happen if you called your crush a bitch when she said she's not interested. And if you persist in displaying your anger, even if you DON'T call her names, how well do you think that will play out?

"Oh, here's my sullen, angry acquaintance. He's a real catch!"

I am, of course, in no way saying that you need to "just get over it" and that the hurt you might be feeling is inappropriate. However, there are better ways to deal with hurt than with anger (more on that perhaps at another time).

But above all else, the most important thing to remember is that (assuming she's a good person...and if she isn't her rejection is actually a favor) she doesn't deserve your anger. She is no more capable of controlling the fact that she's not into you than you are capable of controlling the fact that you are into her. Assuming she didn't knowingly lead you on (and almost always SHE'S NOT LEADING YOU ON), she has done no wrong in rejecting you, even if it's for reasons that you might think are shallow (and I HATE using "shallow" as it pertains to attraction). Keep in mind that very often her not being attracted to you isn't even much of a choice, just like you may never have chosen who you are or aren't attracted to. However, how she reacts to your feelings is her choice, and she is a thinking, feeling woman who has every right to choose her romantic destiny.

I suppose you can't choose not to be hurt, however you can choose to act civil and even friendly. You SHOULD choose to act civil and friendly and carry on to a new vista and see what the future holds

[Anonymous]

You are right about many of your points. None of us choose to be attracted to skinny girls, blondes, girls with small boobs, girls who wear glasses, etc., and girl don't make those choices, either. It is just the way we are wired. Logically, a man should understand that when a woman says "no thanks," it doesn't mean that she thinks he is a bad person, If she isn't attracted, there is nothing she can do to change that.

But to say that a man shouldn't get angry ignores a few things about the male experience. When a girl likes a guy, she hopes he comes around, and maybe she does some subtle things to try to attract him, but if he doesn't come around, she doesn't know why: maybe he already has a girlfriend, maybe he's a homosexual, maybe he just broke up with a LTR. She doesn't know, and there's not a defined point in time where everything comes together and she knows 'he doesn't feel attracted to me.' Whatever rejection she senses gradually sneaks into her consciousness and she assimilates and moves on.

When a guy puts himself out there,, maybe he call a girl on the phone and asks her for a date, and she gives him some lame excuse like "I need to wash my hair that night." IN an instant, he goes from hope to humiliation, frustration, and anger. He is angry at himself for not being cool enough to attract women, he is angry at the female species for being so damned impossible to understand, and he is angry at the woman who just told him that those dreams he had about finding the right girl, finally being accepted and appreciated for being who he is. . . all of those dreams were just some dumb bullshit and he was just fooling himself the whole time.

Understand that women constantly give men mixed and conflicting messages. "I want a man who isn't afraid to express his feelings," the lady says. Okay, since you just rejected him and he is feeling lower than the dog shit on the bottom of your shoe, he might as well take this opportunity to practice expressing his feelings. And, you know, guys have just as many feelings as women, but we don't express them as directly as women do. We're not robots and the feelings are too much for us to contain, so you catch a load of anger that's been stored for awhile.

It's okay for you to do something that makes the guy feel bad as long as he doesn't do something that makes you feel bad. Because that's what gender equality is all about, right (that's another one of your mixed messages.) Get over it, because we're human, too!

[Bluemax]

Anon, perhaps I should clarify.

I believe that a certain amount of anger might be inevitable. However, there is a vast difference between anger at her and anger at the situation. I understand that a certain amount of frustration (which is mild anger) at the situation may very well be inevitable. However, assuming she is a good person and hasn't led you on intentionally or taken advantage of you, then anger at her is inexcusable. Furthermore, a wise man will not allow his frustration to consume him and guide his decisions.

A few more points of agreement and departure, if I may.
"Whatever rejection she senses gradually sneaks into her consciousness and she assimilates and moves on."
-That's wise, don't you agree?
"women constantly give men mixed and conflicting messages."
-Disagree. Most women I've known haven't sent mixed messages.
"We're not robots and the feelings are too much for us"
-Agreed. However, don't direct the anger at women.

[Bluemax]

"It's okay for you to do something that makes the guy feel bad"
-No, it's not OK for anyone to intentionally do something that makes a guy feel bad. However, rejection isn't intended to make a guy feel bad. Granted it does make people feel bad, but it's not intended to.
"you just rejected him and he is feeling lower than the dog shit on the bottom of your shoe"
-People shouldn't feel lower than dog shit on the bottom of a shoe if they've been rejected. Your worth as a human being hasn't changed at all. Rejected people are worthy, feeling, thinking people deserving of respect, and that includes from themselves.
"Get over it, because we're human, too!"
-Well of course we're human, and all that being human implies. We have feelings the same as everyone else. I am saying don't take your anger or frustration out on the woman who rejected you. She did nothing wrong.

[Opinion Owner]

The difference in what we are saying is this: You are talking about the way ideal people should react if they are controlled by their intellect instead of emotional responses. I am talking about the way real people will react.

Women give men mixed messages. They say they want a man to be honest with them but there are many things that they don't want to hear and they would prefer for us to lie; this usually involves a situation where honesty will collide with a woman's vanity. Women say they want a man to express his feelings but if a man starts expressing anger, the woman asks the man shy he is behaving so badly.

"Anger at her is inexcusable." I'm not offering an excuse. I'm providing an explanation.

" Furthermore, a wise man will not allow his frustration to consume him and guide his decisions." Most of us don't allow anger to consume us, etc., but some of us react impulsively with anger. To call that being "consumed" is hyperbole.

[Bluemax]

"I am talking about the way real people will react."
Most people I know don't react by lashing out. Those that do are not being mature.

"Women give men mixed messages."
Most I know don't. Furthermore, when women say they want men to express their feelings, they mean to do so in a productive and mature way.

"I'm providing an explanation."
I understand, but I'm not nearly as concerned with explanations about bad behavior so much as I am concerned with seeing an end to it.

[Opinion Owner]

Maturity is an ongoing process. Young boys do not react the same as grown men, and young girls don't behave like older women. Unless you have been involved in lesbian relationships, you don't have first hand, intimate knowledge of the way other women treat men in relationships. I think you are idealizing the way you imagine women act in relationships; I have been in the trenches of the war between the sexes, I have dated more than a hundred women in the past 45 years, and I would not say that women send mixed messages unless that was my general experience. Nothing that you say in this forum will change the way young people react - emotionally and impulsively - when they are experiencing pain in relationships. everyone must make their own mistakes and, hopefully, eventually learn from those mistakes.

[peachblossomluck]

Acting like a jerk just reaffirms to the woman that she has made the right decision by declining you. When is it EVER a wise move to show ugly character? Great take!

[bloodmountain1990]

Only if the girl is acting ugly to you and no I'm not saying if she's simply not interested but if you politely ask her out and then she says something very offensive or rude then I see nothing wrong with it.

[Bluemax]

@peachblossomluck
Thank you. Stay tuned for part two.

@bloodmountain1990
If a woman acts ugly to you in the way she rejects you (and this does indeed happen), she has done you a favor by rejecting you. You've dodged a bullet. What I see wrong with it is that getting ugly with someone even if they've been rude to you is undignified. Besides, you never know who might be watching.

[Ozanne]

Yep exactly. A sneak preview of what a nasty break up it would have actually been.

[Bluemax]

You might be interested in this take
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a11240-not-another-friend-zone-take

[Ozanne]

THANK YOU! Single men and women should both consider these words when they next feel the urge to lash out when they don't get the result they expected.

Here's me... Years and years ago, I went out with a female friend to play snooker after work. Two guys - both I could tell right away were just too loose and boyish for our tastes - came on strong to both of us. We rejected them, and even explained we're just there to play snooker and talk. One, with a stupid look on his face trying to understand why we are saying no, said, "Ohhhhh so you two must be lesbians?" Here's the thing... people all too often look for reasons that there must be SOMEthing, some reason, that has nothing to do with them that could be the reason why we're being so thick. Had the guys been attractive and mature, we would have welcomed their company. But they were acting like frat boys and weren't our type anyway. So instead of just shrugging it off and being men, walking away, they fished for our reasons of why we couldn't possibly be accepting of their offer. It was always *us* and what *our* problem was, not that they just didn't do it for us. But the lesbian comment is what did it, amusingly. If we didn't fall all over ourselves for a free drink and their lovely company, we MUST not be in to men at all, right? LOL

Here's another thought: Rejection could also mean, "No, not at this time." How often do you hear married couples stories that go like this, "Yeah I didn't like him at first, but after a few months we ended up together. I know. Weird." Or, "I said no at first because I was getting over a bad breakup, but he actually waited for me, and after six months I was ready and he was there."

So reacting childishly to rejection is just such a bad idea, simply because you never know what could happen down the road. She might just wonder after a month, "Hey what did I do? That guy was so nice, I wonder if I still have his number somewhere..." Look at GaG!! How many times do we see this question where people think they let the right one get away and what they should do about it.

Always best to just take it for what it is, and if it never works out, who cares? Sounds like the other person recognized that you weren't compatible and there wouldn't been 100% happiness, so why force someone to be with you if their heart wouldn't have been in it? Best to view it as a blessing in disguise and save your efforts for the next person.

[Bluemax]

What is snooker?

You said, "Had those guys been attractive and mature, we would have welcomed their company."
What if they had been only one of those qualities? What if they were just attractive but not mature? What if they were just mature but not attractive?

I agree with you that many people will fish for reasons why they were rejected that have nothing to do with them. I would point out that sometimes the reasons a person is rejected do indeed have nothing to do with them, or at least nothing they can control. Physically unattractive people sometimes can do nothing about their plight, short of cosmetic surgery (which often doesn't work anyways). Fortunately for most people, most of us can change our appearance for the better.

But even if she rejects you for reasons which are totally beyond your control, even though you're hurt, even though it's a bad situation, the dignified and kindest thing to do is move along.

[Ozanne]

Hard to say. Even sometimes when a guy is attractive, nice, and mature, women can just simply not be in the mood. Having good qualities doesn't give a guy an automatic free pass in to a woman's life. I just remember back then thinking nope, nope, not in the mood, I am having fun playing snooker with a friend.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/?title=Snooker

Some people genuinely do want to know if the rejection is because of something they said or if they could change something, thinking something is "off" that other women aren't jiving on. Most people want to play nice because the flattery of being asked out will have someone feeling as though the person deserves kindness back as a rejection, such as "I'm just not ready to date," but if the person wants to know what it is they can change, it's a futile question because people have types. If something is obnoxiously wrong and he thinks he can handle it, he should ask a friend or trusted relative for the truth.

[Bluemax]

"Hard to say. Even sometimes when a guy is attractive, nice, and mature, women can just simply not be in the mood"
Well, I'm kind of skeptical. You see, if an attractive, nice, interesting, and mature woman wanted to talk to me before I was married and when I was single, I would ALWAYS be in the mood to talk to her. Always. Even if someone just ran over my puppy. I don't know. Maybe it's a difference between the genders.

"but if the person wants to know what it is they can change, it's a futile question because people have types"
It isn't always a futile question. Indeed people have types, but there are certain things which are broadly considered attractive. Moreover, there is great consensus on what is considered unattractive, and studies have shown this. However, trying to get it out of the person who just rejected you is in poor taste.

[Bluemax]

""If something is obnoxiously wrong and he thinks he can handle it, he should ask a friend or trusted relative for the truth."
Frankly, I think friends and relatives are unreliable. Acquaintances are probably more reliable. GAG is probably more reliable.

[Ozanne]

What I mean about types is, if I like a certain hair colour, hair style, eye shape, eye colour, and the guy hitting on me has the polar opposite of what I like, then asking me what it is about him in hopes he can change just wouldn't work. I wouldn't want him dyeing his hair and radically changing his style just for me. I would be able to tell it's phony.

[Ulyss]

I wouldn't call any women a bitch if they reject me but if they reject me and give a shitty attitude of course I would think she's a bitch and be glad I dodged a bullet, This has happened to me several times where she would rather give a shitty attitude without rejection or with it. Your take was a nice read and to be honest I thought it would be filled with crap.

[Bluemax]

Thank you, Ulyss. Stay tuned for my next mytake.

[hlab3]

It's not the girl's fault to lead a guy on, and the guy can't get mad that she couldn't pick up the signs. Plus, even if she did, her acknowledging and pointing out the guy's attraction straight-forwardly would only make it even more weird. It's better if you take your rejection and then try to stay as friends. You still have a chance to get on a closer level with the girl, and she can give you a chance once she feels comfortable enough with ya. Also, playing hard to get while you try to maintain a friendship with her would work on trying to "woo" her again.
I had a guy who professed his love for me, and when I told him no, he kept asking me to give him a chance while knowing I'm in a relationship with my boyfriend. When he finally understood no means no, he calls me a bitch for no liking him back. It's ridiculous. Overall, don't go back and give the girl shit. She didn't deserve it. There's more girls out there.

[Bluemax]

"It's not the girl's fault to lead a guy on, and the guy can't get mad that she couldn't pick up the signs."
Mostly that's true.

"Plus, even if she did, her acknowledging and pointing out the guy's attraction straight-forwardly would only make it even more weird."
Eh, I think we might disagree here. I think if a girl acknowledges a guy's attraction when she isn't attracted to him, then it's probably a wiser move than pretending his attraction isn't there at all. Better to be wise even if it's weird.

"It's better if you take your rejection and then try to stay as friends"
Ah now, that's probably where we disagree the most. I believe it's best to be friendLY (emphasis on the "ly" because it's important... there's a difference between being a friend and being friendly). More on that in my next take. As for the guy you mentioned, he exemplifies my point brilliantly. He hurt someone (you) who never deserved it.

[thatkaruguy]

actually it is the girls fault if she leads him on

[hlab3]

Yes, it would be the girl's fault IF she intentionally lead him on. Otherwise, girls are just as clueless to the signs as guys are. It's easier to ignore the signs (and only if the girl picked up on them), and rejected the guy without coming off too blunt. She could decrease the amount of contact, reject invites, etc.
And actually, you're right. I don't personally believe a guy and girl could remain JUST friends if rejection have taken place on either side. So, I take that back about being friends; only friendLY.

[LightsOff]

I agree. And even if it turns out that she's rude and mean, so what? Sinking down to her level by lashing out and being rude back won't help at all or make you feel better. And like you said, it would be a blessing to know that you dodged a bullet by being rejected by someone so mean. And really, if you freak out every time you get rejected, you might get a bad reputation. Then all kinds of girls will refuse to date you simply because they KNOW that you can't handle rejection, and they'll assume that you're a hotheaded person in general. Even if she acts like a bitch about it, try to be as polite as possible and remove yourself from the situation immediately. In fact, forcing yourself to keep your cool will actually help when dealing with the rejection. At least for a while. It's ok to cry in private if you feel bad about it, but lashing out is never the answer. People will just think you're crazy. Not worth it.

[Bluemax]

Ding!

If there were a "most helpful" for a mytake opinion, this would get it. At 22 you display more wisdom than people I've known who are twice your age. Kudos! Stay tuned for my next mytake.

[Bluemax]

You might like this take
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a11240-not-another-friend-zone-take

[crystalt70]

Great take! I will also add this...
If I were to reject a guy, his reaction to such rejection may actually make me think twice. I wouldn't necessarily reject men based on looks. I generally don't just accept dates from strangers. If I said, "no, but thank you for asking" and he was polite, gracious, friendly, respectful, etc, he would strike me as someone possibly worth the chance. Of course, he could be faking it, but there are relatively easy ways to tell if someone is sincere or not. You just have to pay attention.

[Bluemax]

Well, thanks for stopping by, crystalt70.

Out of curiosity, has a stranger ever asked you out? I've never in my life asked out a stranger, but that's just me.

[crystalt70]

Hmmm... strangers have asked me for sex. Does that count? Lol. I actually don't have to worry about turning guys down because i don't really get asked out much. Apparently i give off a "don't approach me" vibe. I felt myself doing it this weekend during a fundraiser at a local bar. I dont frequent bars and the stares from men were very discomforting. I was very tense because those guys aren't the type of guy i want. I didn't want to be approached because i don't like hurting people's feelings. If a guy asks me out and i am not attracted to him, it would be difficult for me to say no. I would rather not be put in that position. I do know several women who have been asked out by strangers. I even watched a guy pick up a girl in Walmart one day. She was taken off guard and sooo uncomfortable. He was pushy about it. He made sure she gave him the correct phone number by making her call his phone, then he took her phone to program his number under her contact list. Poor girl didn't know

[crystalt70]

what to do. She was pretty shy. Her body language and facial expressions spoke volumes, but he was not in tuned at all. He saw what he wanted and wasn't taking no for an answer.

[Bluemax]

I see. That's interesting.

I consider that sometimes saying "no" is the compassionate thing to do. Tell me, in your opinion do you think we should teach young girls more about saying "no?" Do you think we should teach more young guys about hearing "no?" I'm not even talking sex here, I'm just talking about asking people out for a date.

[crystalt70]

We definitely should be teaching both. The guys where i live tend to be very rude, abrupt, aggressive, etc. A very good majority of them are classless. My own daughter and her best friend have said that they will never date a guy from here. That is not the first that i have heard females make this statement. I also share that sentiment, but with exception. Many of the guys here are drunks, drug addicts, cheaters, liars, abusive, etc. They just don't respect women. There's not a high rate of couples who actually stay together. It wasn't like this before Hurricane Katrina wiped our area out. Those who could afford to leave, generally did so. Unless their job prevented that. I came back because i loved growing up here and my ex wanted to be where he worked. Unfortunately, the lower classes of residents took advantage of opportunities and bought flooded homes for as little as $10,000. Then workers from other states took the opportunity to move here for the influx of construction jobs.

[crystalt70]

Things just went downhill big time.

[crystalt70]

There's a high amount of men here who will retaliate if turned down. To the point of actual assault, if not verbal. I prefer to not come across any of these men. It's just easier to not put yourself out there.

[crystalt70]

https://youtu.be/I9ISzTBHbGE

To give you a little insight into the types of people taking over our area, here's a little video. This happened about 5 minutes from my house in one of the local trailer parks.

[Bluemax]

When I hear of guys asking strangers for sex, there's a part of me that wonders what they would do if the stranger said yes. Honestly, I think in most cases the guys don't expect the woman to say yes. If they are hoping for the woman to say yes, then I have to ask WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? WHEN? IN THE HISTORY OF PLANET EARTH GOING BACK TO Y CHROMOSOMAL ADAM AND MITOCHONDRIAL EVE HAS THIS EVER WORKED?

[crystalt70]

Lol. I have no personal knowledge or experience of this working. I certainly didn't live during the time of Adam & Eve, but it just might have worked. How else did the population get so big? Heck, cavemen just needed to bop a girl over the head or drag her into his cave by the hair. Those guys didn't even need to ask! Damn feminists ruined EVERYTHING for today's men! Lol!

[Bluemax]

"I have no personal knowledge or experience of this working."
Neither do I. I don't even know anybody who knows anybody for whom this is worked.

As for that video, I just... don't know what to say...
Do you mind if I message you about Katrina and growing up around New Orleans?

[crystalt70]

I don't mind. I was just talking about Katrina with a few people a little while ago.

[Bluemax]

You might be interested in this take
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a11240-not-another-friend-zone-take

[art84]

I had this one girl lead me on to the point where I thought she was into me. She was flirty and even attempted a few times to be touchy with me. What I found out was that she wasn't into me. She didn't like me but what happened after asking her out and getting rejected by her, was that she became a bitch. I hate to use that word but that's the only way to describe her. It's like a complete 180 in attitude as she turned against me as well as her friends. I could of been angry at her but I chose to just be adult about it and just keep my distance. The only good that came out of it was she moved on with her life and is now married and with children.

[RationalLioness]

That's different. She USED you. People who use people are bitches.

[Bluemax]

Yes, what RationalLioness said.

[Bluemax]

I would add one thing though. It's been my experience that in most cases when someone feels he/she is being led on, I find that it's usually miscommunication and not nefarious intent.

[StrangeDude20]

I remember feeling like I was rejected and I called the girl names to a couple friends who would never talk to her. I spent a lot of time trying to build up courage and chase her. I really only sent her a couple messages on myspace-like "hello" and that was it. I just think more time should of been spent on chasing other girls-or at least talking to girls and working on treating them like normal friends than aiming for sex and relationships. Also, would I really want to push a girl into a relationship with me? Her heart would not be into it and when we would be older, it's possible that we would be bitter.

[aficionado]

This is really good, and true as well! But the fact is, a lot of women do lead men on, and in fact, enjoy doing it.

Having said that... I know that no woman would ever feel attracted to me, probably due to my below average looks and weird personality. So I just 'insulate' myself from rejections, by never approaching women! My self esteem is already down, wouldn't want to damage it further due to rejections from women. But yeah, I never get angry or call women 'bitches'.

[Bluemax]

I'm glad you haven't gone down that road, aficionado.

That being said, how do you know that "no woman would ever feel attracted to [you]?" How do you know your looks are below average?

[aficionado]

Well... lot of things
Firstly, I'm Indian. And it is a well known fact that Indian men are considered least attractive by women the world over. Even some surveys proved it. In fact even Indian women don't prefer us if they have other options.
Next problem is my height. I'm just 5'7" (or 170 cms), which is way too short by today's standards.
And then my face... it's just not that attractive. I have always felt this way.
My personality is kinda weird as well. I think very differently from most others, due to which I often get labeled 'crazy'.
Finally, the money aspect. Most guys who are physically unattractive use money to attract women, but in my case I'm quite broke. In fact, I just immigrated to a new country so I'm jobless as well!

So you see, women being attracted to me would always remain a distant dream so I'd rather not have false expectations. :)

[CorruptedDocument]

Damn, that's some cold truth

[Roostah]

You are wiser than a lot of men who delude themselves into thinking PUA, having a good personality and spitting game will help them with women.

[Bluemax]

And yet I know there are hundreds of millions of Indian men out there with wives or girlfriends. I'm curious what survey proves Indian men are considered the least attractive. Could you direct me towards it? You are the height of my best friend (5'7"), whose wife is slightly taller than he is, and he's been happily married for eleven years (or is it ten?). As for your face not being attractive, how do you know? Did you conduct a survey? Did you post it on hot or not? How you feel about your face is kind of irrelevant, since you're not trying to date yourself. What matters is how other women feel about it, not you. As for money, I understand you. By the way, I've always thought earning potential is very legitimate in terms of a relationship and it's not shallow at all. So what are you doing to remedy your financial situation? I take it you are looking for work. How's that going?

Exactly how many women have you asked out?

[Bluemax]

@Roostah
Most PUA communities are idiotic because most encourage men to be aggressive to the point of invading a woman's personal space and completely ignoring her lack of desire. However, for the majority of humanity, men and women alike, personality and game does matter. There are outliers, of course (the extremely attractive and extremely unattractive), but most of us aren't in the outliers.

[Bluemax]

@aficionado
@Roostah
Are either of you familiar with a book called Dataclysm?

[aficionado]

@Bluemax
Here is the link to that survey:- blog.okcupid.com/.../
And a question asking about the same:- answers.yahoo.com/.../index

Regarding my financial situation... I did have a reasonably decent job back home in India. Nothing great, but a job. But I immigrated to a developed country because I wanted a better quality of life. It's been less than 2 weeks since I am here, so it's gonna take a while before I can get a job. Will try for a few months, and if I'm unsuccessful, I'm gonna go back to India.

[Bluemax]

Ah, yes. It's funny you should mention this. I'm reading Dataclysm, which was written by one of the founders of OKcupid.

I would point out that the study you mention (which is talked about in Dataclysm) only deals with women replying to Indian men, not rating them. I wonder if there are other factors involved. Most OKcupid users are American, many of whom have preconceived notions that men from the Middle East and India are sexist. Perhaps those preconceptions negatively affect OKcupid users' desire to respond to these men. Or perhaps I'm wrong.

You never answered my question about how many women you've asked out?

[verticallyinsecure]

First of all, its pure bs that indian men are considered unattractive to women, there are attractive and unattractive people in every race, secondly, ur not bad looking at all, actually quite good, third, my best friend is 5'5 (164) and looks below average and he has dated the max girls, i have seen with my own eyes girls ask him out and they were beautiful girls, would consider myself lucky just talking to them. So yeah, stop bringing your self esteem down

[aficionado]

@Bluemax
Ok I'll answer it now.

I was too scared of rejection, so until 6 months back I had never asked any woman out in my life. Then people kept egging me on, saying I'm not bad looking, I have a decent career, I'm intelligent etc. so I should try approaching someone. I decided to give it a go, and approached the woman who had just told me the day before that she thinks I'm 'perfect' for her. But yeah, she rejected me, saying although she found me perfect for her she never was attracted to me.

So yeah, I have asked ONE woman until now, and she rejected me. I know people say that only way to overcome the fear of rejection is to keep getting rejected. But in my case, every rejection brings down my self esteem a bit. I'm too emotionally fragile to handle the rigours of dating and relationships, and me not being rich/good looking isn't helping my cause one bit. I'm intimidated by women. I'm stuck with the notion that I would never tick all the boxes of women's lofty requirements.

[aficionado]

@verticallyinsecure

Wow, thank you! That really helped boost my self esteem a bit! :)

[ObscuredBeyond]

If she gives you false hope, pretends to agree with everything you say, follows you on various adventures through life, makes you believe she is the one; but then starts putting you in the closet, controlling who your other friends are, wanting unreasonable things from you, and then ditches you when you stick up for yourself - and then she starts spreading horrendous rumors about you to make others hate you to add injury to injury, then yeah... she's a bitch.

[Bluemax]

"If she gives you false hope"
I find that most of the time (and please note I said MOST of the time, I didn't say always, I didn't even say in your case) giving false hopes is a miscommunication, not due to any nefarious motives on her part. By the way, I'm in no way suggesting bitches don't exist. I am stating quite explicitly that just because a woman rejects a man does not make her a bitch. The other aspects that you mention would constitute a bitch in my opinion (and frankly most other people would agree). However, in my experience most women don't do that.

[ObscuredBeyond]

It's happened to me four times at least.

[RationalLioness]

Hey look! A man with common sense and who gets it! Maybe you can relate this to other guys who don't seem to get it though I doubt your message will seep through a lot of them. :O

[Bluemax]

Well, in posting this mytake, I am trying to get through to them.

[Daniel110995]

Great take! Like you say it's not that person's fault if they're not attracted to you and you should channel the pain effectively. However sometimes people do get caught up in the heat of the moment and say things they don't mean. I'm not defending them but it happens. I do agree with what you've said though.

[Bluemax]

Thank you. Stay tuned for my next take.

[neofuture]

I agree, but because movies and TV shows always show "the nerd getting the girl" or romantic comedy's "following someone and keeping with them untill they end up happily ever after" this has created an illusion for most boys these days, they truly believe if they constantly hound girls and "butter them up" with gifts and sweet talk they can date, that's truly is what is airing with today, the belief that you can date anyone you want when in real life that is far from the truth

[Bluemax]

Hmm. Interesting. I'm not so sure movies and TV shows are to blame.

[neofuture]

They aren't entirely to blame that's the truth, it's more of the popular viewpoint that boys are beaten into them since birth, the belief that being nice, a gentlemen, and constant hounding of a women you will get them, movies and TV shows reinforce that

[Nathand]

please... We are brought up be told to respect women and have manners from our mothers and fathers

Then when we are following our fathers lessons on how to treat a women the women rejects you for the guy that treats he like crap.

its all confusing... That's why I can only see women as objects, because they don't know what they want.

[Falling4UTC]

The only girls that run of for the guys that disrespect her are the ones you should avoid. Mentally confused, usually into innapropriate things only, had problems with her family, etc. The majority of girls aren't being disrespected by their guys, maybe they just complain to you about it because you are close friends but she is over exaggerating her problems. The other guys have confidence with girls and let the girls know what they want from the beginning, whether it be a relationship or whatever, so the girl usually accepts. Just be straight up with girls and you will have a better chance of herliking you. 😊

[bloodmountain1990]

The fact that a girl isn't interested doesn't make her a bitch. It's all about how she goes about it.

[bloodmountain1990]

Just to clarify this does not mean most women are bitches. What I'm saying is, it would only make a girl a bitch or stuck up is if you ask them out and they insult you or act like you're harassing or assaulting them simply for asking them out when there's nothing you said that warrants that behavior.

[bloodmountain1990]

Or if a girl leads you on and you like her back and then she acts like you're a psycho or creep because you should have really known that she wasn't interested despite her acting like she was.

[bloodmountain1990]

I guess the best example I can give is when I messaged a girl off okcupid asking her about music tastes and similar interests and her response was that I look like a pedophile. Her not being interested wasn't the issue itself but her reaction was. I called her a derogatory term back and she said you're a pedophile because you said that. Sure I might have stooped to her level but what she said was uncalled for especially when nothing in my initial message warranted that.

[bloodmountain1990]

I mean there's girls I have no attraction to at all that message me on dating sites and I don't respond back but i don't say oh you're ugly or you're fat, how dare you message me or anything like that. That would make me a prick.

[Bluemax]

I agree with you very much. Nothing you said is in contradiction to what I said. Of course there are some people who are just plain mean. My advice then is to move along.

By the way, I don't even advise that you call them names in return. Even though they've registered their disgust when it was uncalled for, the dignified thing is to be better than they are and move along.

[bloodmountain1990]

I see what you're saying in terms of being the bigger person but accusing someone of being a pedophile especially when there's no reason for suspicion is like accusing them of being a rapist. That is slander and defaming ones character,

[Bluemax]

"That is slander and defaming ones character,"
Indeed it is. If there are witnesses, I would consider taking legal action.

[bloodmountain1990]

This was online but had this happened in person, I definitely would have.

[Bluemax]

"This was online but had this happened in person, I definitely would have."
The fact that it's online would possibly make it easier, since it's recorded in writing.

[Anonymous]

It sucks when you spend so much time trying to know her and something like that happens I had to get up and go somewhere else with tears of frustration, I'm still trying to get back in good graces with her but it doesn't seem to be working been 3 months so far. Persistence is key I've heard

[Bluemax]

Anon, I hear you, I understand you, and I feel for you. Rejection is painful and I wouldn't fault you for shedding tears. Go ahead and shed them, if you must!

If you are trying to get back in good graces with someone so that she might date you when she has clearly said no, I would say in such a case that persistence is the key to making yourself an annoying person. I believe when people say persistence is the key, what they mean is to persistently keep trying with other people.

[Opinion Owner]

Even general hello and goodbyes aren't even answered anymore lol. Maybe in a few years I'll try to be a good friend again, I pray all the time the friendship would be restored but it hasn't yet

[Poppykate]

Hang in there! If she is worth the effort, I am sure she will come around. Maybe you just need to speak louder, as she doesn't heard you. Lol. I design, and I know I often go off into my head, and it can be hard to grab my attention sometimes when I am thinking of something new.

[Opinion Owner]

I certainly hope so I feel kinda lost as which direction to go, everything was going so well too so I thought

[Bluemax]

I think that it's important to note I suggested a person remain friendLY, not remain friends. There is a difference.

[Opinion Owner]

I get that there might not ever be a chance again to even be a friend, but I can die in peace knowing i tried and not have to wonder what might have been as I lay there and start thinking thoughts when I'm old about my life

[Opinion Owner]

Didn't work out I suppose out of all that time waiting I Facebook messages her hi I hope all, is well :) have a good 4th of July weekend! That was it, then suddenly I'm blocked... yet again no reply explanation, though I'm sure I'll get shamed at the table again when I get back to work. Then some I just don't get or, such dislike toward me it's disturbing

[Opinion Owner]

Nothing happened at work suprisingly, and still holding the bitch shield for whatever reason. I chalk it up to she has a boyfriend, she likes me but puts on this act like she doesn't. Its very convincing. I talk and normally a person would look at whoever is talking she won't regardless, I must be hideous lol but she will continue and talk about whatever I said. But never any questions to me or interest at all. Goodness want to hang my head against the wall. She doesn't care but it's human nature there's got to be some level of caring

[FALLENCHRISTEY94]

So if I guys don't like a girl but she leads him on and therefore he's not a jerk because he wasn't into her at all and if a guy leads on her and therfore she's not a bitches because she wasn't into him it makes senses all too well :-)

[GlamFelix]

I think part of the problem is guys thinking that a girl simply being nice counts as 'leading them on'. She shouldn't have to be a jerk or unpleasant person from the beginning, common decency is a thing.

[FALLENCHRISTEY94]

@GlamFelix you get what I'm saying I'm glad you understand that most people don't thnks :-)

[muspelhem_5]

Great myTake.

Many of the women I have asked out have been so nice when rejecting me. Some less so.

But the rejection itself you can't argue with. Anything else would be coercion, and where's the value in that?

[Bluemax]

Indeed.

[Bluemax]

You might like this take
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a11240-not-another-friend-zone-take

[KAZ-2Y5]

love this! since when did having friends who are girls become a bad thing?

[Bluemax]

I'm probably going to write more on that later.

[Bluemax]

You might be interested in this take
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a11240-not-another-friend-zone-take

[KAZ-2Y5]

Link didn't work

[BumbleSuperBee]

DAMN RIGHT!
Finally someone who understands!
I love you, man.

[Bluemax]

Thanks. Stay tuned for the next mytake.

[BumbleSuperBee]

Sure thing!

[Bluemax]

You might like this take
www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a11240-not-another-friend-zone-take

[BumbleSuperBee]

Sorry for the late reply.. i haven't been active these couple of months. And the page isn't available anymore..

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry, when was the last time a girl you were in to but she rejected, actually introduced you to one of her friends, whether you were an asshole to her or not? Never

[Opinion Owner]

by the way, I smell white knight syndrome off you

[Bluemax]

"I'm sorry, when was the last time a girl you were in to but she rejected, actually introduced you to one of her friends, whether you were an asshole to her or not? Never "

If you're going to ask me a question, don't answer for me. The answer is it has happened to me and several of my male friends PLENTY of times. My friend is currently dating the friend of a woman who rejected him (that woman by the way is now the wife of my other friend). When my wife died, an acquaintance of mine who rejected me suggested I go out with a friend of hers. I didn't go out with her (I wasn't in the right frame of mind), but it happened.

[Opinion Owner]

Lol keep thinking that bro

[Bluemax]

I don't "keep thinking that." I've seen it happen with my own eyes.

[Ozanne]

Um, I have done that for a guy. His asking me tells me he is interested in dating and if I thought he might like someone else, I find a way where they will be somewhere at the same time as me, so I can introduce them. So yes, it happens, and I can't be the only woman who's done this.

[Bluemax]

@Ozanne
"I can't be the only woman who's done this."
You're not. Not by a long shot.