Why Women REALLY Need to Put More Effort in Approaching Men

[BuchitaBuchys]

Because it's 2016!

Oh, you still need more convincing? Fine.

I know, there are lots of women who already do this (and the highest of fives to you ladies). And maybe in your country it's more common. And maybe it's not. I'm from the US, and while the world doesn't revolve around us, I have to do it from my perspective as that's all I know. Here, while women are approaching more men, it's still doesn't compare to how much men have to do to try to woo us. In the beginning at least. This does affect the relationship later on. And I do think later in the relationship, men usually have the upper hand (like they're usually the ones who decide when to propose and thus settle for sure).

This is also more from a heterosexual perspective, because I'm interested in men. I've always wondered how women are fine approaching other women (aka lesbians) but straight women are terrified or spoiled to not approach guys. I mean, there are plenty of women in lesbian relationships, who asked who out? Lol Did they just keep "dropping hints" - how freaking long did that take then? Whatever, I digress.

No, I am not a woman hater. I am not a man hater (contrary to popular belief). I'm just annoyed at how much men complain about these issues, and although they raise certain valid points, much of it is drowned out by the hate some have pent up against women. Also, it is annoying to constantly read questions like "Omg, I'm a beautiful woman with DD cups, big butt, and I'm smart, people tell me I'm nice, why do men stare but not approach me? Why haven't I had a boyfriend yet?" How weird would it be to read "I'm a guy who's attractive, 6 feet, with washboard abs, I'm in the football team, I'm smart, and nice. why do women stare but not approach me? Why have I never had a gf?" Sure, there are some men who have asked questions like this (mostly just with the quality "nice"), but it's not as common as with women. Well, maybe the "nice" guys is as common with women, but not when guys list all those other qualities (tall, handsome, fit, etc.) Because THEY KNOW why they're single if they are. What is this secret? They KNOW they have to not be afraid to approach!

Anyways, with the disclaimers out of the way, let's look at the pros and cons to women approaching men:

Pros to women approaching men

- FOR WOMEN: You get to decide which man you want giving you attention! I think this is a big one for many of us. Because we know what it's like to be approached far more than to approach. Maybe not every woman is like this, but on average, women are usually on the receiving end. And maybe not right away, but over time, men will not be used to having to do the approaching or asking out if they don't want a missed opportunity. This is why many just "throw the net and see what they can catch". And I feel it just takes out the value in a way in dating.

-FOR MEN: This is more because of the unspoken rule of "whoever invites, pays". Sorry ladies, I know this doesn't benefit us directly, but it is a valid concern with men. Because they are usually the ones to approach, they will usually be the ones stuck with the burden of having to pay. And sure, you could offer to pay, and that's great (another highest of fives to the ladies who do this as well), but realistically, come on ladies. Not many or not enough are actually offering and just expecting to get our first dates or even subsequent dates paid for. This will indirectly benefit us because men will not think we're dating just to get "free meals" (and if you are doing this ladies, damn you. That's pretty manipulative and you should stop). Or some guys even think that they should get "something" in the end of the night. Sure not all men are like this, and thank goodness for them. It doesn't change the fact though that it's not as equal as we'd like it to be.

- FOR WOMEN: It gives you confidence! I know this sounds strange, but it's a little bit better when you get rejected. I know many of us have a fear of rejection, and to be able to just get over it and grab our cojones to ask guys we like out, yea. It's nerve wracking wrecking whatever. So to be able to ask out and either get the date (again, highest of fives to you ladies and teach me your ways lol) or you get rejected. Crazy how you can be confident after getting rejected right? Well, as I said, being able to take risks and face our fears is something women are more scared of than men. And this is true not just in dating, but also in career world and everywhere else. It's why women are less likely to ask for raises in jobs, or ask for higher starting pays (again NOT ALL WOMEN, but on average less than men). Or why we're generally worse at negotiating. Women seriously lack confidence, and I know it's not just because of this, but many times we are too afraid to take risks and FAIL. (This is why I said getting rejected is actually not that bad, we have to learn to fail at least a few times). This is something men are better at in general, and it's catching up on us. Taking risks can sometimes pay off really well. High risks, high rewards (Yes, I know giving birth is a risk and something we do conquer. But as I said, this is more focused on the beginning aspect of relationships. Pregnancy is a "risk" taken down the road once it's already established. Taking risks when something is already established is not the same as venturing into something completely new).

- FOR MEN: This is will help the men, particularly commonly ignored (like shy or nerdy guys) not feel as inadequate. Sorry ladies, this doesn't directly benefit us again. But bear with me. I've asked questions on this, and men in general are not complimented enough. I know not EVERY woman gets complimented and not EVERY man does not get complimented, but let's be real here. For a man to get attention, on average, he has to do a lot more than a woman to get the same amount of attention. And that's just glances, or to get checked out. To get complimented is a rare treat for them. While I don't think the numbers are as exaggerated as many bitter guys claim (only the top 1 or even 20% of men get attention and sex while other men are ignored, that just sounds absurd for the simple fact on the different marriages and different offspring alone. This number seems a bit farfetched to me but I could be misunderstanding it and I'd like to see sources). It does seem true that it takes more effort on their part to just be complimented, and even more to get approached. How can doing this indirectly benefit us? Hmmm. I don't know. Well, not everything we do has to benefit us. It benefits society as a whole because men won't feel as inadequate.

Taking risks can sometimes pay off really well. High risks, high rewards"

And now, the dreaded Cons to women approaching men:

- FOR WOMEN: We lose power in dating. OH NO! I know, this would mean we will not ON AVERAGE have the upper hand when it comes to dating. But, as I've said before, as a whole, the dating scene will begin to equalize. That means that we will not have as many men running around paranoid for golddiggers, if we're asking them out and paying our shares, in general they will be more at ease and lower the guard. And once he lets you in, THEN you can marry and divorce him and take half his things. Haha, kidding. But it will help men feel more at ease. I feel that the loss in power will make up for the gains other places. You're not afraid to take as much risk anymore, and that helps a lot in the business world. You're afraid to ask your boss for a raise? You already learned the worst she/he can say is no. So you grab your cojones and ask because you're not afraid of "no" anymore, or not as much. Maybe we'll finally have the courage to ask for ketchup lol

- FOR MEN: It will probably, initially at least, raise the already big egos. As I said with the attention, it's usually men who have more attractive qualities already getting attention and approached. It will probably inflate their egos first, but it will also help lots of the many men who are commonly ignored for being too shy or not "aggressive" enough. And since these men who are getting attention already are not that common, it ends up helping more men than it inflates. Also, I guess this has to do with egos, just be careful and ready for some jerks to rudely turn you down. It's happened to me (curse you small boobs!) but at least now you know that guy's a jackass.

- FOR WOMEN: It's still a relatively new concept for a lot of women, many of us are bound to fail. I know, this sucks. We don't really know much of how many girls the average guy asks out and gets rejected or ignored for. And because everyone is an individual, what works to swoon this man/woman, may not work for the next man/woman. It's a lot of trial and error, and it takes time, patience and lots of learning (look on the bright side, more lessons and virtues to learn! Yey!) This has a lot to do with confidence thing though, as you learn that the worst that he can do is say no (though some men will probably not let you down in an easy way), you learn to be more resilient. Hopefully, it doesn't make us bitter though, let those rejections/fails make you better, not bitter. Because negative people get knocked down and say "why me", while positive people get knocked down and say "try me". Be patient and prepared to fail ladies, I've been rejected by every man I've asked out. And it does hurt. I'm not gonna say I'm numb to it yet, but I figured hey. Oprah wasn't built in a day.

- FOR MEN: It gives the "bad" guys an opportunity to fuck us over. And I mean this literally. Because some guys will think we're "so desperate" and more "easy" or willing to give them just sex because we had to "resort" to asking men out. Thankfully, this isn' really that common, I've heard it a few times. And it was disheartening to hear grown men mock women for approaching them and/or them even using them. This is a reason why I feel many women don't compliment "just to compliment", because even when you just are being polite, many men and women, mistake it for flirting. But since guys are more starved for attention than women are, on average, they'll probably be ecstatic initially, to finally get attention and mistake the "forwardness" for sexual wants. It's just one of the risks, as I keep reiterating, that we have to be willing to take.

let those rejections/fails make you better, not bitter. Because negative people get knocked down and say "why me", while positive people get knocked down and say "try me". Be patient and prepared to fail ladies"

(My) Conclusion

Now, it's up to you if you want to approach more guys. I'm not advocating for the roles to be reversed, no. I just think more women should be evening out the playing field. Sure, there are cons to it. And even the pros don't benefit us diectly or indirectly, but that doesn't mean it doesn't benefit us all in the end. I just think it will help many women and men. Maybe you won't even bother reading all of this because it's too wordy. Maybe you just like having the upper hand in dating ladies, maybe you're still too afraid. I don't know what your individual issues and reasons are. Perhaps I'll do a myTake in the future about grabbing your cojones (that means balls in Spanish btw) to approach men (probably will be more gender neutral because many men struggle with this as well. But I will aim it more to women as with this one). But I cannot guarantee success seeing as I have 100% rejection rate lol

Anyways, good luck ladies and may you never settle for love, but never be afraid to get what you want either. Good luck to you men too. And if you already approach us, I'm sorry for the many jerk women who've let you down rudely, and for having been told this since the beginning of like forever while we women have gottten away with it for so long (don't forget though that women have really not had much options in dating since forever either. For long periods of times, we were married off for property, or exchanged for goats. It's still fairly recent, so bear with us).

[DasVoz]

The female response rate for this myTake is as expected. Now, if it were titled "Why men need to grow up and ask women out more", you'd get a stream of support from entitled women who want to maintain the status quo, and benefit MORE from it.

This myTake is a call to action that requires women to unseat themselves from a position of privilege. Sorry, equality isn't the goal of fair weather feminists, so that won't fly. We can keep our dangerous jobs and chivalrous obligations that expose us to front line risk. Women don't want any of that shit.

Almost everything you said makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, young women don't have to listen to a single word. They don't see the need. Men flood their Social media accounts with comments and likes. Men buy them drinks in the clubs and compliment them for accomplishing NOTHiNG, other dressing in a way that arouses their genitalia.

They have it easy. So why make it hard? That's laughable. In many ways, it's up to guys to hold younger women to a higher standard and stop giving them something for nothing. Of course, that will never happen.

[BuchitaBuchys]

I think you're being too cynical.

[DasVoz]

Thank you!

[BuchitaBuchys]

That's not a good thing.

[DasVoz]

To be anything but cynical while wearing these shoes would be work of the supernatural.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Whatever dude. Being that cynical will only cloud your judgement.

[tyber1]

I think he makes valid points

[BuchitaBuchys]

@tyber1 I've pointed out how most bitter guys make valid points but they're misogyny often drowns it out or causes them to exaggerate some points, or not see why.

[DasVoz]

Misogyny, right.

Are all feminists misandrists because they point out the priveledges that men have benefitted from? If a woman made these valid points instead of me, is she a misandrist?

Attacking one's character rather addressing the argument is the biggest sign that one doesn't actually understand the issue, or care to have a real discussion.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Sorry, bitterness.

[DasVoz]

Instead of name calling, point out what I'm exaggerating? It doesn't help anyone to be lazy like that.

[BuchitaBuchys]

You even said thank you when I called you cynical.

[DasVoz]

I'm was being facetious. That aside, you're not very good at actual discussions. Maybe it's a product of bad habit, like calling men names and considering that a victory.

Good myTake, I expected a bit more out of YOU. But hey, we crawl before we walk.

[BuchitaBuchys]

And I regret writing this take. Because I knew the women haters who expect the worst of women at all times will come out.

[BuchitaBuchys]

I don't really know you so I don't know how you can have much expectations of me. This is the first time I've seen you on this site.

[DasVoz]

So you don't stand for what you believe in, or this isn't what you believe at all. Got it.

[BuchitaBuchys]

I never said I don't stand by my beliefs. I'll stand by them no matter how ignorant and wrong because they're mine.

I only regret writing it because I forgot that people just hate women and think the worst of us without getting to know why we do what we do. And when we speak of our experiences, we often get told by men that we're wrong.

[DasVoz]

Well, when women have this monopoly on victim hood in virtually every circumstance, guys sick and frustrated being labeled as villains/misogynists.

Nobody is wrong about their experiences. But there's an honest way to talk about the issues without victimizing yourselves.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Not victim. Just that we cannot even say we breathed on the internet because the online women haters come out to play

[frozenhorizon]

I'm don't get how the part about feminism is relevant since this post is just about dating and not about life in general.

But otherwise yeah, honestly guys have more ability to change this than women do.. If guys weren't so easy, then girls would have to do more work, bringing it up to an equal amount required for both.

[9mfeo]

I don't disagree with you, but I think that the fear of how you will be received as an assertive woman is very real for many women. While many men have said that they would welcome being approached by women and that confidence is sexy, I have also heard men say that a woman being "too confident" is off-putting.

Is that sentiment widespread? How confident is too confident? When will the neverending list of demands on behaviour cease ("be this but not too this")?

I think we all just need to relax. If it happens, it happens. If you like someone, don't be afraid to tell them. I don't think there should ever be the onus on one party to do something in the relationship.

[Fluffchen]

Personally, there is no such thing as a "too confident" girl these days.

But maybe it's just because I don't judge so harshly... 😐

[9mfeo]

@Fluffchen it's a little different in my age group, unfortunately. Not as enlightened as the young'ns.

[milightman]

I have also heard men say that a woman being "too confident" is off-putting.

Welcome to the world of being a guy. Where we suck it up and say okay she just wasn't into it, and on to the next one. That was a satirical tone, not a bitter one haha You just have to deal with the fact there are going to be guys that won't like what you're doing, and move on to the next guy you may be interested in. Just like how we get a friendly "I have a boyfriend," no when we ask for your number. All those threads of how a guy shouldn't feel like they got "friend zoned" will apply to a girl when she goes looking for a guy, using the traditional male approach. But I do understand that a girl's version of the friend zone, will probably just be no serious relationship found out later on...

[9mfeo]

@milightman so the paternalizing tone wasn't necessary but thanks for your input

[Klara-Hitler]

I agree as far as it is for me. but I don't agree generalizing this to women.

First thing that you have to consider is that men had and have their own unique ways to approach, so do women. The “approach” people usually talk about is one way a male, or a female in some rare situations, usually express their attraction. and having it as the only type of approaching is entirely ignoring the very existence of the unique feminine ways a female expresses her attraction and approaches based on her own traits and abilities. So talking about approaching from a one sided perspective like this is flawed to begin with.

Second, the standard approach is originally a male type of approaching that we see in many species of animals not just in humans. When the male dances, when the male sings in birds, when the male fights. it is not tradition, it is not Socialization, it is the norm in nature for a male to openly approach the female. So talking about it as a form of socialization is again fundamentally wrong.

Third, In nature 'approaching' itself for a male is a part of attracting the female. The dance itself, the singing, fighting. This is a part of 'attracting' the female. without it the female will be less likely to get attracted to male, or more importantly have a hint as to whom she should choose to give her and her children a better care. This is very important to consider. But a female, she attracts whether she approaches or not. approaching is not a part of attracting for a female. Her feminine traits fill that hole. She attracts a male before he starts singing or fighting. He sings because of her. So she's already wanted by default if she has that special scent, and doesn't feel the need to approach like a male.

That should simply end the discussion here. Especially end the indoctrination to make women act like males to reach an artificially-made equal position.

Fourth, Putting those differences aside that modern people are so scared of mentioning them, the thing that people have to consider, even if they want to ignore everything else, is that we humans do things based on our capacity to deal with stresses.
Males can generally deal with stress better, because of androgens, because of their mental differences and physical power. The rate of depression and anxiety was and is higher in women of all ages. They have a lower capacity to deal with stress. Stress can be very devastating for both men and women, but it has...

[Klara-Hitler]

…a greater impact on women, so they are naturally more scared of it. Women are naturally more scared of everything, not just approaching, because of their lower capacity to deal with the stress that comes with every action.

Even if we look at it this way it is natural if we see men approach more and women less. Because men are made to be more daring and risking, women generally aren’t. women are actually made to make the least risks possible to take care of their children best. Fear helps them. And it makes the society less stressed as a whole.

And in the end you shouldn’t generalize.

I approached two boys in my life. Though, with a mixed of feminine and standard approach because I think the standard approach is not poetic at all and it doesn’t satisfy me. And I can tell you, it is the most scariest thing you can emotionally do. I was very lucky that both times I weren't rejected. otherwise I might stop approaching and expressing my emotions.

But then

[Klara-Hitler]

But then you have to consider, I’m boy-like in my love. I can’t really say that I’m very feminine. I’m not. Some girls are like this, many girls are not. If you are like this, don’t generalize yourself with women. I don’t see myself as a prize. As a lover, I see myself as a worshipper rather than the someone desiring to be worshipped. and as a friend, that good old childhood companion I share my darkest secrets with.

But many if not most girls see and like to see themselves as prize. it is not internalized misogyny and it’s not socialization it simply makes them sexually satisfied. Very simple. Most girls like to be sexually worshipped. And you can't change them in any way because that is the norm in nature. That is what makes them satisfied. If I don’t act like that, it’s only because of my sexual desires and fetishes, otherwise I might have as well acted like that.

[Klara-Hitler]

It is my behavior that is not the norm, not women's. I don’t blame women for their natural behavior. And I don't try to force anything to women to change them. I approached my guys in my own way. I don’t want everyone to be like me. people are different, and should be different.

What you do with these words is to shame women for what they are. You are not empowering them or caring about them.

You are shaming them, forcing them to do what is outside of the ability of many of them. Many women aren't good at approaching, it doesn’t satisfy them. Many of them are extremely bad at deciding who they really want and should choose when a man doesn’t approach them to give them that natural hint that “this guy cares about me, he can be a good man for me”. This hint is very important and many of them are blinded without this hint.

What you are doing is discouraging men from giving this hint and encouraging women to act blindly without this hint.

Don’t. simple.

[Klara-Hitler]

Let women be women. Let men be men.

You know what is your real problem?

Your real problem is that for 40 years you are not letting men to be men. To have economic power and dominance in the society, to take care of that majority of women who like to be taken care of. while women are still women, not expected to be anything else, and given all kinds of social perks. And now men are frustrated and say why the hell are you still acting like women when you do not let us have what gave us the manly dominant image that you liked. So they as well push to change women.

Because you forced this change on them in the past 40 years.

That is your real problem not approaching. Your men don’t have the means to attract your women anymore and to be confident and stress-free in that approach.

And I tell you, you messed with nature, are messing with it. It will mess with you.

My life doesn’t get affected by your society. I’m careless. Fight, shame, change. Better for my children.

[Klara-Hitler]

But when your society and economy falls under these demands of equality, you will see how nature can mess with you.

[BuchitaBuchys]

But not everyone is happy being "insert gender". And who decides what is a "woman", what is a "man"? If we want to mimic nature so much, how much better are we than animals?

[Klara-Hitler]

Then do not be happy and act like it. Many are happy and like to act as they are. Approach if you like to approach. Let girls who don't like to approach don't approach.

Society lived for some thousand years without these speeches. and economically and socially improved decade after decade. This is not an attempt to appeal to nature as this is definitely for the better of the society.

Your equality on the contrary is only around for 40 years. and it has already destroyed nuclear family, made wages stagnant, increased single parent households, Increased STDs, increased sociopathy, caused population decline, and brought nothing for society but cultural, social, economic instability.

Men do not have enough money to even think about approaching females. Because of equality, they still have to work the harder jobs and have no hope of improving their lives and having a family in the long run. And their numbers are raising as the economy is going nearer towards imploding.

[Klara-Hitler]

It is very natural to see men demanding women to take charge at this point. Their lives are full of stress. Because while you took their power you are still demanding them to drive the car. And women will never stop demanding it. They don’t have the power. You don’t have the power either. And two persons behind one wheel is the dream of an idiot.

One has to take the wheel the other one the map. Anything other than this will never work.

Anyway. I don’t care. You have no chance of returning anyway. Pray, maybe a miracle happens and your economy doesn’t implode and your societies with it.

[BuchitaBuchys]

But just because the divorce rate is higher, doesn't mean it was better. Many people say this but then ignore the fact that women didn't have the power nor means to leave. They couldn't divorce a man who beat them even if they wanted to.

If everything was so great before, then why did people become unhappy with it and wanted change? Not just women, but men too. There have been countless books and art of women who didn't want to be tied to the home.

I'm not saying the roles to be reversed, but not everyone is pleaded with a society with these roles predetermined based on their genitalia.

[Klara-Hitler]

All demands aren't well thought out, all demands aren't beneficial. You can demand a a big cake every day it will make you fat until you have an heart attack.

"They couldn't divorce a man who beat them even if they wanted to."

And that is a lie. Divorce happened frequently even more than a 100 years ago between the middle and upper class of northern Europe and many women divorced as they wished. Just like suffrage is a lie and many women voted before it at least in England. What happened was the No Fault Divorce law in 1969, that made it for women and men to divorce for no reason.

The working and lower class didn't divorce in abusive relationships 100 years ago for the same reason now many of them don't choose to divorce, and that is economical problems. And you can never stop abusive behaviours in the lower classes with higher divorce rates and more economical instability for those women, single parenthood for their children, and a flooded labour force supply and dysfunctional

[BuchitaBuchys]

So you seriously believe it's better for women to accept a housewife role and men work?

[Klara-Hitler]

Economy.

The society was improving itself. With the economical advancement and more wealth for the people the abusive behavior problems would slowly heal as the people in the lower classes raised to middle class and could afford better education and care for their children, and better lives for themselves.

Most people become abusive because they have bad, painful, poor childhood. The only answer to this is keeping the society and family intact, work harder, and make it wealthier. Wealthier society will become healthier, especially mentally.

Instead you flooded the labour supply, doubled the share, destroyed family, made the economy dysfunctional, increased single parent households that have a much higher chance to breed abusive people.

But of course, equality is definitely helping the poor and women in abusive relationships with making the economy less and less functional and increasing the number of people in the lower classes.

[bizry8]

Sorry guys, but I don't ever see this happening at a broad level anytime soon.

Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry for you straight people, I wouldn't know but based on what friends tell me it seems like just finding somebody and exposing your feelings in that way is half the battle of romance.

But as scared as you are approaching a girl you like I can promise you a girl will be three times more scared of rejection than you. I know several great girls who are smart, beautiful, and ambitious and they still can't get the courage to go directly up to a guy they really, really, REALLY like and approach him. They try to work up the courage, their friends encourage her, but when she's actually in front of him she just freezes up and can't actually go through with it.

Girls have a lot of expectations on them coming from all sides: friends, family, media, pop culture, societal norms, etc and it's not easy for them to deal with it. When a guy gets rejected, he feels that HE HIMSELF was rejected as a total package. When girls get rejected they start thinking

is my hair good enough
am i too fat
am i too skinny
is my personality not as great as i thought it was
maybe people don't take me seriously
am i ugly
am i not his type of girl
what if this my one true love
why doesn't he feel this way
does he think i don't deserve him
does he think he doesn't deserve me
did he not like my outfit
does he have his eye on another cuter girl
etc...

Girls can have much higher self confidence than guys, on the right day she can feel like the most powerful human on earth and untouchable, the next she can feel like she's not up to standard. Even within a single day she can go from a confidence level of 3, to 10, back down to 5 all before lunch.

Guys on the other hand are more stable, their band of emotions is usually between 4-6 and doesn't really go outside of that unless something really great happens or some really bad happens.

This, in my opinion as a gay guy, is why girls are attracted to the dark, mysterious, and brooding guys who are sort of just big lumps of steadiness and calmness. It's sort of like an emotional anchor. Its part of the reason why girls are so attracted to guys who are confident and unapologetic, it's a contrast to their own personality and fits like a key.

That's why I don't see the majority of girls adopting the idea of approaching men, if you aren't confident enough to approach how much confidence could you have in the rest of your life?

[LuckyLittleLucy]

Honestly, I never understood this whole 'only guys ask' thing. Because I thinking form about the age of 10 "Well, if only guys can ask people out on dates, how do lesbians get together?". And from that moment on I resolved that women must be able to ask because women go on dates together, and one of them had to ask!
When I was 14, I had a massive crush on a boy and asked him out, he said no, but he was pretty pleased I offered! The silly thing was, all of my friends were "You shouldn't have asked! If you'd have waited for him to ask it would've been fine!". And eventually he did ask me... And I said yes... And now we've together for over a year! But he's confessed that if I hadn't asked him first and drawn his attention to me and my affections, he would've had no clue and probably wouldn't have noticed me... Fair play!
I guess my point is, being brave pays off in the long run, even if it's just you thinking "I did something today that was out of my comfort zone and that's cool". Sure, a guy is still allowed to ask, but why hold back? If you want something, go out and get it.

[AlphaAussie]

I don't like women approaching me, unless it's like two of them at a time, then I will have a conversation, a short one anyway.

Anyway, you're whole statement is based on a falsehood, because women do approach men, but only some men. Plenty of Fish, the dating website last year released data showing the female members rated 80% of the men as Below Average in looks. This isn't surprising given female hypergamy. 80% of women are lusting after the top 10% of guys, the alphas. The rich guy, the rock star, the prince, the celebrity. Guys are far more prone to realise what women are out of their league. Since most guys aren't alphas they approach more women more in their league. A woman is always open to trading up, over 80% of divorces are initiated by women, often when they can or think they can do better. Women approach men, they are all over men, just the top 10% of men. For all other men, women don't care to have a go at someone who isn't a couple of points higher at least than they are worth in the partner stakes. Want an example? You don't get male groupies throwing their underwear at female rock stars, do you?

I hope this helps.

[WickedImpudence]

I was always taught (by guys, mind you) that men like to do the chasing. That they value more what they have to work for. That approaching a guy first/chasing his attention etc. comes across as desperate. The one time I ever asked a guy out it was ignored ( but he would still approach me when drunk) and was told by everyone around us that I scared him by being "too aggressive". Not saying I completely disagree with this post, I'm just putting out that guys themselves dissuade us from equally sharing the burden of initiation. You want a girl who's not easy or desperate, but you want us to chase you for once? You can't have your cake and eat it too, so which one is it?

[Helghast_kitty]

I always felt insecure in highschool. So when if a girl was aggressive with me, I just assumed she was a gold digger or had some other agenda. Wasn't until senior year that I got over myself.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Yes! This is very disheartening to hear. A lot of times when I've asked my guy friends why approaching those shy guys didn't work, was because they probably were "intimidated" or just dismissed it as me being desperate. Unfortunately, guys seem to like the chase at times and it's frustrating but makes sense because some guys do not take no for an answer.

I don't know. I'm still going to try because I figure I'll eventually get lucky. Who knows how much women the average guy asks out to finally hear a yes?

[WickedImpudence]

And in theory, if a guy really is interested, it shouldn't matter who makes a move as long as someone does!

[ManOnFire]

Some of this is true, but most females still expect guys to approach them first, and you're only admitting a problem of why girls don't approach if you can blame it on what guys said. Also, the guys complaining about girls not doing more approaching are not the same guys who find it to be an aggressive turn off.

Ultimately from what I've seen, women not approaching guys has little to do with their fears of appearance and more to do with the egotistical attitude that as a woman they don't need to do anything but sit back and wait for guys to come.

However, I will note that women do fear rejection, yeah. And I think they fear it more than guys because they're taught that guys will always want them, and if they get turned down they'll feel stupid. Men are taught to expect rejection, so they're used to it. Women aren't.

[BigJake]

I applaud your stance, but the reality is that this wouldn't really help matters because you'd have women competing for the same 10-15% of guys. The harsh reality is that the vast majority of guys aren't what most women want, not even close. So having girls approaching guys would only mean that those guys would be asked out multiple times a week by hopeful girls.

Now, before you get upset, the same is true for women, only to a much lesser extent. There are women who get left out in dating, but it's a much smaller proportion, like maybe the bottom 15-20% of women are left out of the party.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Refer to my point my last point in "pros". You'd be really surprised who women go for. Or I should say are attracted to.

I know girls who like "dad bods". Who like "teddy bears" etc. Girls who like men their height etc. Those who like smart men.
Unfortunately, those types are the least likely to ask women out, understandably. Or their more cautious to show their interest, understandably because they don't want to be branded as creeps.
So it's really hard to read whether or not these guys will respond well to being asked out.

My friend is a very pretty girl, nice body. She likes very big men. One time, she asked a very chubby guy out and he said "are you an escort? I don't have money". It's funny, but sad at the same time. Poor guy probably rarely, if ever got attention from a girl, a pretty one at that, and he felt threatened right away.

[BigJake]

I'm a big guy, and I've been on both sides of the fence--fit and fat. I can say that there are zero girls who like big, fat guys. I can say this because I'm my own control group. When I was 330 and fluffy as hell, I got zero attention and my attempts at just talking to girls went nowhere. Me at 260 is a totally different matter. Girls are much more eager to know me and just 'hang out.' They simply want to interact with me more, even though the only thing that's changed about me is my physical fitness.

Either way, though, I do applaud the sentiment, but it's not going to help. I've had female friends ask me why guys are intimidated by them, and I'm like, don't y'all understand that most guys have faced so much rejection that by the time they get a yes they almost don't believe it?

[ManOnFire]

"The harsh reality is that the vast majority of guys aren't what most women want, not even close. " - I disagree. If this was really true you wouldn't have so many women so proud of having a guy when they get one. All that 10-15% stuff is university bologna deductions that students are taught and live their lives by. Reality is different from pop culture, BuzzFeed-style logic.

[ManOnFire]

Women also like supporting that 10-15% logic too because they want to appear as harder to obtain than they really are and more valuable than they really are and pickier than they are.

[BigJake]

@ManOnFire Nah, I'm a student of reality, and it is as I've described. Most guys are not girl's first choices, not even close. Girls settle with guys for various reasons. Some girls get tired of being cheated on by guys with lots of options, so they go for a guy they know will be faithful. Other girls settle with guy based on his ambition, even though their attraction to him is not high. Still other women settle with guys because the timing is right, i. e. the guy is ready and willing to start a serious life and a family.

As for them being 'proud' to be with these guys, I'd say they're more proud of the relationship than of the guy. Most women place a great value on commitment. That's why women are are so crazy about weddings, because it's a signpost that she's achieved the goal of a committed relationship bound by legal strictures.

[ManOnFire]

I do know what you're talking about, but I still would not say most men aren't what women want, it could be that most of the men approaching a woman aren't HER first choice, not necessarily for another woman. Nor would I necessarily say that most women are what most men want, as your statement seems to imply with an undertone.

Also, what is your idea of reality? Is it based on your circles and your experience in them? Or life in general? Furthermore, the women and commitment thing never holds much water for me, since most divorces are called by women, and usually because they get bored with the guy. In the same way you describe girls being in love with the relationship, many women are just in love with the idea of commitment and a wedding.

[BigJake]

@ManOnFire Reality is what it is. Yeah, there are women who definitely any guy's first choice, but guys are usually pretty happy once they made a match simply because they're so desperate and happy to have anyone. Guys with lots of options are the ones who cheat, simply because they do have options. By the same token, most guys don't cheat because they don't have options.

I'd say this is the very reason that most women initiate divorces, because the guys they're with have few options compared to them. In 95% of relationship, the woman has many more options than her partner. Women are more desired than men, so they know there's always somewhere for them to go. Most guys know that things are going to be difficult should they get divorced. A divorced, average guy who makes an average salary knows that his soon-to-be ex-wife is probably the best he was going to do.

[ManOnFire]

Woah, woah, all wrong. The vast majority of guys who cheat do it because the can and for extra, even when they are loved by their wives\gfs. All kinds of men cheat, even ones you wouldn't think, just like women. Men not divorcing as much generally means the man meant it when he married her. It has nothing to do with options.

The illusion is that society views women as more desirable and having more options even if they really don't. We're taught to think women are more valuable in this way when it's really just subjective. Not to be rude, but it sounds like you're basing your argument off of your own experiences. I'm older than you, so while what you're saying isn't completely false, it isn't what I've seen in life to be the dominant case.

[BigJake]

@ManOnFire Don't try to play the "I'm right because I'm older than you" card. It just illustrates the fact that you're trying to 'win' the argument and are grasping at straws to do so. And what are you basing your argument off other than your experiences? That's all any of us has available as a guide by which to plan our lives.

[ManOnFire]

I'm not trying to play that older card cuz I know what that's like. I'm just saying that in this instance a lot of what you're saying is the kind of thing a person who hasn't had a super lot of experience would deduct - that's not entirely bad, and you wouldn't be the first one.

I'm not grasping at straws. I've known all kinds of people and all kinds of situations. Guys don't take just any girl and aren't happy to have just any girls attention, that is actually generally a woman's reaction to having a guy. Just because a guy isn't being hit on day and night doesn't mean he's less desirable, it means that's how we perceive it even though lots of women could be into him but don't say it.

Men actually have many options and many advantages. It's even been said that married men are very desirable to women, something I've even seen. And There are guys who juggle so many women because they can, and because women just give themselves up to guys so readily.

[ManOnFire]

Men who aren't even good looking have gotten laid or got the girl, even though you can't figure out how, whereas women tend to depend on looks to get a man. What I'm saying is that deductions of who's more desirable and such mean nothing in the grand scale of things. A woman who is sexy to 50 men is just not special to 50 others or more, and vice versa. The people with more options are the ones who can hold a true appeal with others, and beyond just desirability.

[BigJake]

@ManOnFire You're assuming that I have limited experience in the real world. Not true, not at all. I don't want to get into some debate about that, but I have seen more than enough of life to know some things about it.

Yes, there are men who are very desirable, I just disagree with you about the percentages. I don't think they're very high at all. Most women--especially younger women--have long lists of the qualities they desire in guys. Girls will tell you this if you ask them. Now, as they age, they become much more realistic, but that doesn't mean they begin to view most guys as even remotely suitable. No, it just means that they develop a more keen understanding of their power (and the limits thereof) in the marketplace.

Most guys will be relative beggars in their dating lives unless they can muster some characteristic that really makes them stand out of the crowd.

[ManOnFire]

I'm not exactly saying your experience is limited, I'm saying yours seems to based on being in particular circles. I agree with you that girls have high expectations, but if anything it would lessen their desirability. Men don't want women who are picky or want guys to bend over backwards.

I think the percentage of desirable men isn't much less than women, no. Again, we're tràined to look at women as having more options and being more desirable and trained not to think about how the same thing applies to men. In some aspects I even think men can be MORE desirable, it's just not popular to talk about it or think about it.

Guys generally aren't going to be beggars in their dating lives, seeing as women often complain about how a guy always seems to finds a girl while they're still single and because "nobody wants them."

[BuchitaBuchys]

I think that women are not as desirable as you say. As much as I hate to, I have to agree with @ManOnFire.

Women have this false sense of power when it comes to dating.
This is mainly what men on here and elsewhere in the internet have expressed to what makes a woman truly desirable or "first pick":
-ages 15-25, some extend to 29, but over 30 and desirability decreases with every year.
-virgin or very low partner count. They like to continuously cite how divorce rate increases with every sex partner.
-not obese. Different men define obesity differently.
-proportional body, symmetrical face.
-not a feminist. Though that doesn't necessarily mean against equality. Many men prefer a more traditional or conservative woman.

If we take all these factors into account, the most desirable/first picks are very low. Even less if we remove the underage girls (18 and under).
This illusion that most girls are desired is false. Men settle for us most of the times too.

[ManOnFire]

YES. Now you're getting it.

[BuchitaBuchys]

I forgot to add "isn't a single mother".
So we keep narrowing the truly desirable women. And it's not as much as people think.

[BigJake]

@Asker Well, what I'm saying is that as small as you think the subset of desirable women may be, the subset of desirable men is much, much smaller. There's no question about that, and it's easily verifiable. Take the average man and the average woman. Take pictures of them and put highly similar profiles on dating websites and see what happens. Average woman will get about 3 times the number of messages and inquiries as average man. Yes, downright ugly people of either gender will struggle in dating. That will always be true. But on average, women have far more options than men. Honestly, I'm surprised that I'm even having to engage in debate over this issue because it's pretty much accepted as reality.

[ManOnFire]

That's because people CHOOSE to accept it as reality, even though it isn't. Men don't get messaged back as much because women prefer to let guys message them so they can see if they like him. Women are taught that they don't need to seek men, as my answer to this post explained.

[BigJake]

@ManOnFire The reason you believe this is because you're in the cohort of men that isn't especially desired by women. If you were among the top 10-15% of guys, your outlook would be different.

[ManOnFire]

Actually the opposite. I must be special because many women tell me I'm good looking even though I don't think so, and I've even had women online ask me for sex - one who was willing to drive all the way to the other side of my state if I said yes. And then of course some chicks tried to coyly ask me for dick pics after they saw what I looked like. You may have trouble getting a girl's attention, but that's never been a problem for me. I preach what I preach because I just know it's pessimistic bullshit self-pity for guys to be whining about 10% and who's more desirable and shit. Life works the way you want it to based on your outlook.

[BigJake]

@ManOnFire You harbor an illusion of control that's naive for someone of your age.

[BigJake]

@ManOnFire Either way, you contradicted yourself, because you claimed before that attractive men wouldn't get any attention on dating websites given that women are programmed to wait for contact from men. Now you're saying that you get all this attention from women on the web based solely on your ineffable attractiveness. Which is it? Either you agree with my original hypothesis or you don't. You can't do both at the same time. That's called talking out of both sides of your mouth.

[ManOnFire]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm basically saying you can't use a website to gauge a guys chances with women. Just because a guy isn't being contacted doesn't mean he isn't being desired, nor was I trying to use my experiences to prove that. An illusion of control would be for somebody who's absolutely hopeless or has something to prove. I don't need to prove my success to feel important.

[RedThread]

You're awesome.

I'm not lying when I say that the most successful relationships I've been in have been when the woman approached me first. I love bold women. I think it's incredibly sexy and heartwarming in a weird way.

I'm attracted to forward women who make their intentions known. I love no bullshit directness. I've made it no secret that I love strong women. Even growing up I was always drawn to the strong female leads in stories. They were always my heroes 😜😍

So ladies there are plenty of guys out there who love being approached. Have fun and relax. If it doesn't work with one it will work with others. You can do it!

[BuchitaBuchys]

Thank you thank you! :)

I feel that not enough men care if the woman is confident enough, so we are stagnating. And it's caused us to now even expect guys to approach us. I am so damn sick and tired of reading those "why am I so beautiful yet no man approaches me?" types of questions. I always tell them to get off their castle princess, and JUST DO IT YOURSELF. I probably sound like a bitter bitch lol

Also, I feel that maybe I should do a take on how important dating a confident person is, because many guys wonder why we women want it so badly. And many women mistakenly get into relationships while insecure, and I've done that before. Not a smart move and I wouldn't recommend it unless you're ok with being fucked over. Not completely related to this, but I wish more men appreciated direct women lol

[RedThread]

Yes confidence is so great. People don't realize how much it helps. I've been into a whole spectrum beauty wise when it comes to women but they all had confidence. That makes someone so damn sexy in my eyes. A woman doesn't have to be traditionally beautiful to be confident either. There are some women that are so comfortable in their skin that it makes them beautiful as hell.

Yes people should stay away from relationships if they're dealing with serious insecurities. Yes we all have things we are insecure about but some people have it beyond the norm.

[Bluemax]

Which strong female leads drew you in, out of curiosity?

[RedThread]

@Bluemax Like Xena from Xena: Warrior Princess haha
That was my jam when I was younger.. It's kind of corny watching it as an adult lol

www.thegeekmates.com/.../...-35601395-1024-768.jpg

[gblue25]

I think it's only me. But some women might still be in the shy side to go and ask a guy out. Or some women feel it shows the guy is more outgoing and into them if the guy approaches them. Or some women think it would be embarrassing if a guy turned them down. But i met my boyfriend on a dating site and sent him a message/ flirt. But in this day i do understand women shouldn't be ashamed to do it as well.

[BuchitaBuchys]

I was very shy at first. And I am like embarrassingly anti-social. And I'm not outgoing or confident at all. I'm more of an introvert and I have a list of phobias and insecurities longer than my life.
But eventually I'd look in the mirror and say "your life is fucked as is. You're used to failing, and you're more than used to getting what you want. The worst he can say is no. Shut up and go".

I'm not good at talking to new people and I've never gotten a yes lol

I know it's hard for many women to just do it, especially because pretty much we figure if he likes us, he would've done it by now.

[gblue25]

I understand where your coming from. That's what i was trying to get at. Every women has different reasons why they don't approach men.

[BuchitaBuchys]

*you're used to NOT getting what you want.

[gblue25]

I was agreeing with your oppion.

[BuchitaBuchys]

I know lol I corrected myself after you had already commented that. But I didn't see your comment until I already refreshed the page again.

[yellowmamba024]

I have been wondering why men experience rejections more and more often as the years pass by. I feel that the digital age has something to do with it? People rely so much more on technology for communication. Since that's the case, young women nowadays freak out when a random guy strikes up a conversation with them because they are not used to it?

Women these days don't seem to be receptive to being approached anymore. I do not like the outlook of women beginning to put more effort in approaching men.

[frozenhorizon]

I already said this in a comment on someone's response, but I think it comes down to something as simple as guys having lower standards than girls. I think guys have pathetic criteria for dating and are idiots who don't realize that the way they operate is counterproductive. If they were more selective and only dated people they -really liked-, not just anyone who would have sex with them, then women would have to be more active in response if they wanted attention.

[BuchitaBuchys]

I've always said this too. But then guys call me a misandrist.
It's true though. Men throw their net as wide as possible, but not all women are women they actually truly want.
And this is why so many women are stagnating. We really don't have to change because there's still some poor sap willing to date us or bone us.

If she's insecure, it doesn't matter as much, especially if she's pretty, she's gonna get asked out still.
If she's unemployed and not going to school with no prospects of bettering her future, it doesn't matter, she'll still get asked out.
If she's a bitch, yes, you guessed it, she's still gonna get asked out.

Sure maybe a lot of those guys just want sex, but a good number want a relationship too.

[Lolomon]

Now, I don't disagree that it's ok to women to approach men. But you also have to be realistic that the men that women are willing to approach and take a risk with aren't going to your average Joe. Kinda like who women have one night stands with she will find hot, granted their are women who don't have such standards, but a lot do. I think that notion will also , move the pendulum for women, It will give us greater dating power but it will backfire for men. Men aren't picky who they hit on or have sex with women are.., so it's a good thing and then a bad thing. I hope this makes sense , doesn't seem like it but.. whatevs

[Azara]

I really like your take.,

only thing is i dont think approaching takes power away. it is empowering bc you choose. and a person can screw you over just as easily if you ask them out or they ask you out. i think more easily with the latter bc they have time to calculate. I never saw being preside as having the upper hand bc at the end of the day you're not doing the choosing. only left to take whats offered.. and its especially nota power position of your treated badly for doing the choosing yourself, as many women do get treated when approaching. not that those guys are boyfriend material anyhow. but its still unnerving for a lot of women. but great take! i love your wheel:)

[davidpossey]

i wouldn't mind a women approaching me but there will be a problem if women start making the first moves and sort of chasing men because men love chasing but some are just too nervous and shy to do it and if the dynamics switch and women now chase men men will start becoming more and more feminine since the women has taken on the masculine role the men will start being more submissive and both him and the women won't like this relationship what i am trying to say is sure if it calls for it women can approach but they should let the guy chase them a bit let him be a man and make moves let him know that you like so he is more confident and makes those moves and leads

[redeyemindtricks]

This really isn't a men vs. women issue at all, as much as people just looooooove to argue about it. Nope. It's a dominance preference issue.

Most women, at the end of the day, tend submissive (#sry4realityrocking), and need some sort of genuine dominance from their partners. THAT is the reason why they don't approach. It would completely defeat the selection process, for that particular (very important) trait.

Those few women who DO tend dominant, have few issues approaching potential partners. There just aren't very many of them.

[milightman]

I've kind of noticed that women are worried of the challenge of doing the approaching with possible unwanted results. Do people who approach get that sort of thing often or something? Haha but enough with being an ass. Yeah if you have stories where you got rejected. It's going to happen sometimes. You may even get "mislead". I think the woman's version of her getting misled is her finding out she was just for sex and company. Like I challenge the women here to ask guys out for a couple months. Just try it. Hell you may even like it or get dope results. But try it out, even if you get flaked out on or rejected. Keep going for a few months. Write back to us, I want to know what happened haha I may even start social experiment out of this.

[ConsultantIsBack]

You're an angel! Totally agree, great take. Girls that are confident and assertive in approaching, letting someone know they are interested, etc. Do very well at dating in my opinion.

[BuchitaBuchys]

But we don't lol I'm still single :x

[ConsultantIsBack]

Lol, well good luck :)

[Bluemax]

In my youth, I once asked my sister why women don't ask men out. Her response was telling. She replied, "Because we don't have to. "

An interesting take, buchita.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Pretty much, too many men are already doing the asking. So now it's like "if he didn't ask me out, he must not like me."

[BuchitaBuchys]

And thank you :)

[Bluemax]

Well, in the case of my sister, I don't think she felt that if a guy didn't ask her out he must have not liked her. If my friends' opinions were any indication, she was an 8/10. To her, asking guys out was not only unnecessary, but an irritation.

[Bluemax]

P. S., The girl in your picture looks like my friend did at that age... if the girl in the pic has brown eyes.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Hmmm. So did she get many guys approaching her? And you mean the doll? Lol

[Bluemax]

She was approached several times a week. She complained about it in her youth. She's complaining that she's not being approached now.

[RonG96]

I totally agree I would approach a guy if he is the one I want I was brought up to serve my self that includes getting in to a relationship. I hope 2016 to be the year a lot women pick up the courage and do stuff for them self instead of waiting for god knows how long.

[EnglishArtsteacher]

Women 30 and over it seems enjoy being approached, but young women in their 20's generally think it's "creepy" when a guy approaches them.

Generational differences? I blame it on electronic technology, since face-to-face communication is less common than it used to be.

[Frost_Byt3]

Or the older women know their looks are fading, and are therefore more desperate, and appreciative of any attention they can get from men.

[EnglishArtsteacher]

@Frost_Byt3

[EnglishArtsteacher]

@Frost_Byt3 This is spot on.

[ManOnFire]

It's an interesting idea I've already heard about, but in reality most women don't approach men because they're taught that they don't need to. You mentioned one of the cons as being an ego inflator for guys, when I think it's the opposite: women are taught that men will always want them or look at them, so they think they don't need to approach. That, I think, is the big issue. It's a female ego that comes into play more often.

[BuchitaBuchys]

I mentioned that it will only inflate some, not all men's egos. But these are they guys already not having to put much effort.
But it's not a big amount, at, least it doesn't compare to the amount of men it'd help feel appreciated. So this issue isn't that big.

Of course some women do have ego problems and prefer and even expect to be approached.

However, I feel that you're mistaking it and branding too many women's as egos. When yes, we basically have been told and surprisingly, by MEN, to "make a man work for it". I seriously cannot count how many men have told me to either not get physical with men too quickly because he won't take you seriously. Or that "all men are pigs, you have to decide which pig is the prize pig. Trust me, I'm a man. I know this".
And those guys don't see a woman like this as "conceited", more as "knowing your worth."

It's far more complicated than saying "oh, she must have a big ego to not want to ask men out".

[ManOnFire]

When yes, we basically have been told and surprisingly, by MEN, to "make a man work for it". I seriously cannot count how many men have told me to either not get physical with men too quickly because he won't take you seriously. Or that "all men are pigs, you have to decide which pig is the prize pig. Trust me, I'm a man. I know this". - You're only admitting it if you can blame guys for it, which is also common for females to do.

A woman is going to think she's God's gift to men or approachable whether or not any guys tell her the shit you're talking about. And yes, the female ego does play heavily into approaching and not wanting to approach. People try to convince us that women have confidence issues too and are shy about asking a guy out, but this isn't a common case, because females aren't educated on how to talk to men, it's men who are tràined to think we have to have a special way to talk to women and approach them. So women prefer to sit back and just let guys to them.

[BuchitaBuchys]

I'm an extremely shy person when it comes to new people. I have a long list of phobias and insecurities that I still have not shaken.

I don't think I'm god's gift to earth. In fact, I wish I did because otherwise I wouldn't have let so many men (and women) treat me like I don't deserve any better. I literally thought for a long time that it was my fault my ex cheated, that I didn't deserve any better and that if I were to leave him, I'd never find anyone else. I didn't even want to talk to anyone because I didn't feel worthy.

Honestly, how I got over it was just telling myself "your life is shit anyways. You're used to failing everywhere else. You're more than used to not getting what you want. The worst he can say is no. " so that's how I figured hey, I'm used to failing, why be bothered if I fail at this?

Many women are afraid of rejection. And fear of the unknown. It's still a new concept.

[ManOnFire]

Something for you to think about so you can understand where I'm coming from is the fact that only 2 females commented on your Take. That's because most others saw it and probably thought it was a joke, that they don't need any tips on approaching guys. Don't get me wrong, I'm not entirely in disagreement with you on this topic, but I'm just telling you how females are thinking. They feel that they're above needing to know how to approach guys.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Lol how are you going to tell me what females are thinking?

[ManOnFire]

Well, if you really knew then you'd see what I'm saying. Just because you're female doesn't necessarily mean you understand it any better, it just means you didn't think about it or really notice it. Sometimes the other person on the outside has a better vision of the situation, and since I'm a guy with more experience in dealing with the approach issue with females, that's how I can tell you.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Well, sometimes being on the outside leads you to be ignorant of why we do things and most people will assume based on what they think of it.

I'm not denying that female ego doesn't play a part, but I'm not sure if that's a big enough reason. Many women, especially teen girls are too shy or just afraid of failure to begin with. This is what happens when you try something new in general.
Many of us hear, not just from women but many times from men "if he really liked you, he would have asked you by now". And then she's left feeling "damn, that must means he doesn't think I'm pretty enough (this is usually the thing we assume). I guess he doesn't like me."
When girls on here ask all the time if they're ugly because they're not getting asked out, or what's wrong them, they don't sound like their ego is big in my opinion.

I always respond with go ask them yourself. They're usually afraid of coming across as "desperate" because the norm is for men to approach.

[ManOnFire]

On the contrary, sometimes being on the outside can make you smarter than the people inside, cuz they can't even see their own behavior. And, again, I would be the one with experience in approach ing more than a female.

I'm not doubting that what you're saying for SOME girls isn't true, I'm just saying it's not really the case for most. Females typically like a guy to approach them first, and when a girl gets enough approach es from guys it DOES go to her head to a point where she feels she doesn't need to do any work.

Again, also take note in why only 3 females looked at your Take and not more. If you had've written about how guys need to work on how they approach, girls would've been all over this thing.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Yes, women are so terrible. We should go back to raping them and enforcing them to marry their rapists. To exchanging them for cattle.

[ManOnFire]

That's a lame, tired cop out of the situation. Say the guy hates women to dismiss what he's saying. This is why women can't learn from us.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Yup. You men know everything.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Because apparently men can't learn anything from us. Read the female responses. A lot of men say they appreciate it, but it's not what's happening on our ends.

[ManOnFire]

Could THIS be why you've had trouble with guys? You clearly aren't open to hearing anything that doesn't agree with you, and don't have any respect for a male perspective. A guy can't value a woman like that.

[BuchitaBuchys]

Maybe it is. I do value what men say , but men aren't always right. You keep disagreeing with whatever women say. How do you know what we're going through?

Maybe it is ego. Maybe it's part of it. I don't think it's the sole or main reason though like you are implying.

We're told from the very start that boys who hit us or push us are "just being boys" or they have a crush on us. So just like that, we're told that men are the aggressors when it comes to romance.
We're told that being too direct scares men because they want to be the dominant ones.
We're told that men don't like "easy/desperate women", not for relationships at least. And asking out in a world where the norm is for men to do it, comes off as pretty desperate for a girl.

We're conditioned to think maybe we're not pretty enough or he doesn't like us, if he isn't initiating anything.

It's not all ego. It's not mostly ego because many women lack serious confidence.

[tyber1]

Women commonly believe that men think they are easy for showing direct interest. Men only think a girl is easy if they believe/know she sleeps around. That's the long and short of it. If a guy actually thinks a girl asking a guy on a date means she is easy, it is because he is such a shitty person that he passes being an asshole and crosses into the territory of superassholes. Such people view women as trophies, would you really want someone like that? Their opinion is worth less than cat shit.

[ManOnFire]

@tyber1 Women are going to think they look desperate for approaching a guy whether or not we think so, and this is because women view guys as desperate for pursuing them, so they don't want to look like something they themselves view us as being.

[BuchitaBuchys]

@tyber1 it's not that I thought I was desperate. That hadn't even crossed my mind until guys told me it seems desperate for a girl to approach.

@OpinionOwner no, we don't think it's desperate for men to ask out, provided he's not constantly asking you out over and over after you've already said no.
It's desperate for women because the norm is that men are the ones who do it. So when women do it, people say things like "what's wrong with her that she had to resort to asking men out? Guys should be lining up to date her."
It's like a female boss will usually get branded as a "bitch" for being assertive while a male boss has more leeway to be dominant. It's not really the norm to see assertive and blunt women. Though it's becoming more common.

So while a guy asking a woman out is fine, a woman asking a man out appears desperate.