One Big Reason Why Guys Don't Want to Pay on a First Date

I know, one of THESE takes again. Let me preface this by saying I don't mind spending some money on a girl for a first date. I'm not one to even go to a restaurant for a first date and I do prefer doing an activity where we don't have to worry about money. But I do understand the feelings that some guys have on this topic and I think SOME guys don't understand why it really upsets them and thus can't verbalize it properly to girls. So this take is for both women AND men.

As someone who is a male I can really only say this from a guys point of reference. Going on a first date is nerve-wracking. Hell, even before that when you build up the ball sack to even try and initiate a first date with a girl is beyond torturous. And so, anxiety is already very high for a first date which is a shame since it's hard to have fun when you feel all this pressure. And so to pay a bunch of money at the end of all this anxiety filled date is just the cherry on top of a PTSD inducing experience. But that isn't what some guys are most afraid of.

It's feeling unappreciated.

I hear a plethora of reasons for why girls want guys to pay on a first date. For many of them I do get it. And I try not to blame women (I'm human and do occasionally have brief weak periods of bitter hatred towards them) for these things because a lot of it is parental and societal upbringing.

But a few excuses I hear from girls on why a guy should pay tends to stand out to me the most and I feel offended by. The two I see often which are very similar are

The guy is showing he is willing to be committed by paying on the date.

or

I want to know my time is being appreciated

Both of these, while they may seem innocent from the girls perspective, are incredibly insulting and humiliating from the man's perspective. Respect/appreciation and commitment are all two way streets, yet here they are being treated like it only has to go one way: The man giving these courtesies to the woman. This says that a woman's time is worth more than the man's. Already from date one the girl is saying she is above the man whether she consciously acknowledges it or not.

This says that the man is worth less than her and he is below her. Girls say they just aren't sure if a guy is serious about her but we as guys face that exact same dilemma as well and it's no less bad for us. We have zero clue if a girl is actually serious about us, either. Yet while men are expected to give girls some assurances that we as men are serious, they for whatever reason do not have to assure the man that she is serious.

I personally feel the most insulted about how girls say they are giving up their time for a man and that's why he should pay. Am I not giving up my time as well? Or is my time worth nothing more than mud in a woman's eyes?

Ladies, if a man saw your time as being worth nothing more than garbage would you really want to spend time with him? Because the reverse of this is happening when girls say a guy needs to pay to show he appreciates her time. Our time is worth so little that not only is it free but we even have to pay a girl for sharing our time with her.

Honestly, I don't think most guys enjoy paying on the first date. Yes, quite a few do enjoy it but I think most guys do it out of obligation or genuine fear of being rejected. So when you are thinking about how thoughtful they are, in their minds they could actually be building up resentment towards you and the first date hasn't even ended yet. So girls, you may think most guys don't have a problem with it since most guys do pay. But a lot of the guys paying are not doing it because they want to. They are doing it because they feel like they HAVE to. Which I'm sure isn't a pleasant thought since that kills the romance. But honestly it is true for a lot of guys out there. The guys you know who are super gentlemanly very well could be among them. Guys will never admit it because it will make them look bad in a girls eyes.

Anyways, I know this is not all girls or even close to it (God I hope not) and I know I'm going to have a hard, maybe next to impossible, time by not being automatically excited about paying on the first date, but I just don't want to start a relationship already having subconscious hatred for the girl for making me do something that I perceive as unfair. (Yes there are things that society expects women to do for men in a relationship but I will never ask a girl to do something for me that I wouldn't do for them). People say if I don't pay on the first date I shouldn't expect to get a second date (which again shows that I'm apparently beneath the woman for simply being a male) but I like to think of it as if they expected me to pay then they don't get the pleasure of having me for a second date even if they wanted one.

Again I don't have a problem paying for smaller dates where there is no check since you pay at a counter before going in or just buying ice cream which is like nothing. But if I get a smell of entitlement from a girl that I should pay or they're annoyed I didn't take them somewhere fancier I'm extremely turned off. I want them to be dating me not my wallet.

Maybe I'm feminine but I just want them to appreciate me as much as I would appreciate them. It's literally the only thing I ask for. But for the majority of people I guess that's asking too much.

Again, I love women and am not just trying to bed them without using money. My goal isn't even sex; I want an emotional connection first and foremost. I want a friend, someone who I can talk to. Someone I can be vulnerable around and someone I can be there for when they are feeling vulnerable. That's why I can't date a girl who expects me to throw money for them on a first date. I'd never be able to be open with my feelings around such a person because I don't feel respected by them. And for those of you that like old fashioned dating that's totally cool. I am okay with you wanting to do dating differently from me. All I ask is you be kind and return that gesture and not force old fashioned dating on me.

#Sorrynotsorry


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Most Helpful Girl

  • I believe in splitting the bill because it's not guaranteed anything will progress from then on. Why pay for someone who you're not going to see again?

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Most Helpful Guy

  • "People say if I don't pay on the first date I shouldn't expect to get a second date"

    In addition to it beings an unfair expectation, I dislike how inconsistent they are. The same girl who might expect me to pay in order to earn a second date has probably sent nudes and hooked up with men who didn't spend a dime on her. Now I am not saying she has to send me nudes or fuck me on the first date too. I just think its insulting that she was willing to send naked pictures of her body and spread her legs for men who didn't do anything for her and now I am not even going to get a chance for a second date unless I prove my worth by paying for her half.

    I would much rather have been one of the guys she didn't hold that expectation over. Furthermore, there is nothing they do to reciprocate that gesture. Like if you were to compare a girl who expects the guy to pay and one who is willing to split the bill, there is nothing extra that the girl who expects you to pay does for you. They say they are traditional but the tradition of the guy paying is usually the only one they care about upholding.

    Oh and that "whoever asks pays" bs doesn't really make sense logically and it pretty much translates to the guy pays because the guy is usually the one who asked.

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What Girls Said 12

  • I think when girls say "oh I spent a lot of money getting ready so it's fair" or "I'm giving him my time so he should pay" is complete bull.

    I think it's a gentlemanly thing to do, it makes me feel special like he's treating me which is nice. I wouldn't EXPECT him to pay but when he does it's a pleasant surprise and it makes me feel good. Just like when someone surprises you with a gift, or something else. It's just nice to be treated no matter who you are.

    If I'm going on a date with a guy, I'm nervous and excited and happy. Spending time with him is like being on cloud nine, it's the best feeling in the world. I don't care about how much money is being spent, and if it's a lot I'd feel really bad. It's just the thought of him taking care of me that makes me feel good. Just like when he holds the door or opens the car door for me. It's nice.

    Everyone loves to feel special and if it's a guy I'm interested in of course I'd do things for him and show him he is valued to me. All I want is his time, anything else is just a bonus. Lucky for me I've got that man. This wasn't really a date but my boyfriend and I were at a friends birthday party. We were all bowling and I didn't have socks to wear the bowling shoes. He got up and bought me a pair so I could participate.

    Like it was just freaking socks but it made me blush and smile and feel like a school girl. It's the fact that someone is willing to do something for you that is what makes me feel special. It doesn't have to be fancy or grand, it just makes me feel cared about. Since it's not expected, when it happens I feel great. It's just gentlemanly in my eyes. Nothing more, nothing less.

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    • That's the problem though, now a days its not appreciated, its an obligation. I think that's why men get pissed off about it. I personally could care less about paying but when its not reciprocated or appreciated like I'm no different then a waiter bringing her food (its my job, she doesn't thank me or even make eye contact) then that's when I stop wanting to pay. Then the fact that so many women make up excuses for it is just adding gas to the fire.

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    • I'm giving him my time so it's fair
      implies her time is more valuable than yours. If someone said that I'd just say "I won't be taking anymore of your precious time then" and just leave.

  • interesting male point of view. I'll only add that you as a guy have already decided you want to spend time with this girl by the mere fact you "built up the ball sack to even try and initiate a first date" and asked her. She, while open to the idea of meeting you to get to know you really doesn't know what to expect and one way to set our mind at ease is too take care of the cost. you can read up on the clinical reasonings here isf you so choose www.eharmony.com/.../#.WB0HAbX3bYX
    It is the girls role to show her appreciation, be attentive and interested in the conversation and what he has to say. express interest. look as presentable and attractive as we can FOR him. if we can't at least show appreciation through those and other actions (put away our phone, dont strike up conversaation with the table next door or waiter, etc) then those guys have every right to feel bitter for their next effort at making a connection.
    We are also in a tough spot because some guys if not many (we can't tell at the outset) will actually become offended if we try to or insist on paying and its hardly showing appreciation by rejecting an offer to pay. the other option is to offer to split the check. In my mind, that is an option left for platonic friends and business associates, NOT in the makings of a love connection. Now, if the girl knows she doesn't want to see the guy again it is only fair to split the cost and both parties can walk away having tried and only buying their own meal with some converstaion thrown in for free. After that first date if a connection is there I love to pick the next date and pay (showing my appreciation) or even bring a little gift for him. I hope that makes some sense. I'd repost a link to my discussion on the subject but that turned into an awful MGTOW vs FEM Battle. (i dont subscribe to either of those beliefs)
    You can look it up if your so inclined. Anyway, thanks for posting in a rational and non conforontational way how or why guys dont want to pay.
    much love <3

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    • That was a very well thought out response thank you. One of the issues that I think is more brand new is where you talk about " look as presentable and attractive as we can FOR him."

      There's part of the feminist movement (I also don't care for either that or the MGTOW) saying that dressing up and putting on make up is exclusively to please themselves and men have no part in it at all. And this message has been aggressively thrown in peoples faces these last few years so not many guys will see that as her showing appreciation for him. I understand if you and maybe other women do it to show you're interested in a guy as well but unfortunately we just can't assume that anymore because we don't know what a girl is really thinking.

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    • What... that you offered to pay for your own food... and he said yes? How is that insulting? Why lie and ask in the first place if your're not wanting to pay for half? To seem nice to the man? He is going to find out what you are like eventually.

    • @Jamesol1 I'm happy to pay my share or the whole thing. but I feel like he is basically saying we won't be going out again. Which is the insulting part, if I liked him and our first date.

  • This is a good take. You explained it well and were very level headed.

    The only thing is I think it needs to go both ways. I'm a girl who says it makes me feel as if the guy is interested in me. If I'm interested in him I let him pay. If I don't plan on seeing him again, I'll insist on splitting. Also I think it's pretty easy to tell if a girl is into you or not.

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    • I do hear some girls display their attraction towards the guy by letting him pay and if they offered to split it's because they don't like him. Some girls though rationalize that if the date went bad they at least got a free meal out of it and still have the guy pay. Since men lack the ability of telepathy (well at least I do) I have no idea which kind of girl she is unless she outright said it which I don't think would ever happen on a first date.

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    • That's a fair way to look at it. I guess it also comes down to personality differences. I personally like someone who's very humble so for me I guess the right girl would never think they deserve something out of a date. Of course they would deserve it but again they'd think humbly. And if it was the right person I'd have no problem spoiling them.

    • Exactly!!!

  • Whenever I go on dates, I make sure we split and pay half. I feel so bad when people pay for things for me.

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  • This was a very interesting article and I really understand where you are coming from. I think a guy should pay only if he is serious about being with the female. Now if a guy and a female who are strictly friends go out, then they both should pay.

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  • "Showing commitment" in the sense that the man is generally supposed to be the financial provider whereas the woman generally has to provide sex and emotional support

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  • nice post'

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  • So long as we have fun, I don't care who pays
    though I am flattered if the guy does

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    • That's completely understandable. I'm not really saying one should pay over the other. It was just about some of the reasons guys are a little more reluctant nowadays.

  • One big reason guys don't get a second.

    LULZ

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    • Because women are ungrateful for what they do and only cared about their money instead of them? yeah, how dare they have self respect.

    • Unless you put out on a first date having diner with a women isn't something we consider "getting seconds".

  • Dating is for getting to know someone. I don't think either side is wrong, you just have to find someone who agrees with your side of the augment. I know a lot of girls who rather pay or split because they don't want to feel like they owe anyone anything & they like to be on equal footing in the beginning of the relationship. To each their own I don't think either is wrong everyone is looking for something different which is why we date in the first place.

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  • For me it has always felt a little uncomfortable if the man pays for me... I mean, I am uncomfortable every time someone pays me. I respect most men who wanna show me respect by paying, but it won't make them any better if they are bad in other manners.
    Let me tell an example: I was out on a date with a guy I met on the net. He had used an old pic and looked a lot different. The only things he talked about was: money, sex and alcohol. For some reason I didn't respect him any more when he paid the bill, but I let him because I felt like he had wasted my time.
    I think it doesn't matter if he pays or not, but if he suggests something expensive and them doesn't pay, it is kind of insulting. The guys that has always been running out of money and really had no money to put on me, did it anyways, which is when my respect is earned. They pay from the little they have and show me I am more important than their money. But that is the situation where I get the most uncomfortable. I always offer to pay too, but they never wanted me to.

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  • Meehhhh. to me it's really simple. You ask me out on a first date, i am your guest, you pay. I ask you out, you are my guest, I pay. You or I can hedge on all the risks and issues, but it's a dinner, not a new car.

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    • I'd say split proportionally if there is no chemistry between parties. If the invited party allows the inviting party to pay all, take that as a positive sign, If restaurant is outside your means, let them know upfront so they can still assume the risk if they wish.

      If you can't afford a walk in the park, probably shouldn't be dating anyway.

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    • @hellionthesagereborn

      Well, i feel like I've already addressed this at various points in different ways.

      I do not represent womankind, i represent me and most of the women i know have very similar attitudes toward dating and relationships as i do.
      I've said, i will only date one guy, im only interested in one. I've said, i want a guy that will invest in a relationship equally with me... that's not a one way statement, that's about what he and i will do together, my obligation to him as much as his to me. This to me is a cornerstone of a relationship and says a lot, whatever you think of to invest in a relationship im already on that page because it is very important to me. But if you want specific examples, i'll give you some.

    • My current boyfriend, he always pays when we go out, i don't want that. To keep things equitable, i organize evenings out, or outings where i take care of everything. Last summer, i planned and organized a trip to Jackson Hole Wy and paid for all of the trip expenses except for the occasional lunch or dinner. I sent him on flyfishing trips, whitewater rafting all kinds of stuff, thousands of dollars. Not because i owed him money or payback for paying for a bunch dinners out or this thing or that.. i don't keep a count, but i know what is right and wrong. I attend to him and make sure he is taken care of, i do not ascribe money to these things, but it is an investment in our relationship, they tell him I know what he does and appreciate him for it. Just like he works to get my attention, i work to keep his. I don't think i need to give more detail here, you should be able to figure out from here how i think about things.

What Guys Said 29

  • Well, first of all, if the prospect of being rejected a woman evokes "PTSD-like" reactions, that's on YOU, not the woman. That speaks to severe self-esteem issues. Sure, it's nerve-wracking to approach a woman but your life doesn't exactly balance on the head of a pin when you do, and if you're seeing that way, it's time to reevaluate a few things. ;)

    Secondly, it's all perspective. You say a man paying puts him in a subservient position, when a woman could make the exact same argument; him paying puts HER in a subservient position; i. e., she has to be taken care of. And they have just as much right to think that.

    I just think this entire "who pays for the first date?" thing is waaaaay over-thought and over-analyzed. You know, not everything is a societal or political statement. Not everything has deep, dark undertones. Sometimes, it's just someone being NICE and nothing more. I have no problem paying for a first date; I draw no conclusions from it, I don't make any assumptions about the woman (or myself) if I do, and if she wants to pay, fine.

    This really isn't that complicated. :P

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    • Agree that it's not about who is domianant and who is subservient. A lot of guys see paying for a date as her owning him, so they feel more in control for paying the bill.
      But people's behaviors speak way louder than their mouth, so whether she pays her half or not is a big deal.

  • Yeah I would say those are the reason why men are now refusing to pay for dates, because women treat them like they are beneath them. I don't have a problem with paying to be honest but their must be some kind of reciprocation, something to let me know she isn't just using me for my money and a free meal. Its as if all the dating rules are held onto by men but all the ones women use to have are gone (what happened to women cooking for the guy for one of the dates to show her appreciation (and her homemaker skills)?). So while I may continue to pay I fully understand why a man wouldn't any more, women have to earn that right back and so far they don't seem interested in doing so.

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  • This is why you don't take a girl to some fancy restaurant or a restaurant in general on the first date. If a girl is willing to take a walk with you or do something that is inexpensive, chances are she's there for you, not there for the money. Going for a walk and getting some ice cream or stopping at a coffee shop is about as inexpensive as it gets.

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  • The reason I no longer go for expensive first dates is there are too many (not all) women who make a game out of seeing how many free meals they can get. They flirt with you go out with you, then they "aren't feeling it" and later you find out they had no intention of dating you, they just wanted a free meal! I mean women still expect us to pay, it isn't oppressive, just choose cheap or free dates for the first one. Coffee houses, walks on the beach etc. It is about getting to know her, right? Besides I find its a great way to weed out gold diggers!

    Don't believe feminists when they tell you "you only want sex from women." It is a psychological shame technique to get to you hate yourself for being a heterosexual man. DO NOT FALL FOR IT!

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  • there's a lot of other reasons other than the one you pointed out wich i kinda agree with , but mine is just they got their own money now.. The first date is just like a tryout , the person in front of you isn't really the person you gonna meet 7 months down the road, i didn't even know you existed 1 month ago now i gotta pay for your food? And its not sustainable, imagine im looking for a girl to settle down with, and i go on multiple dates with different person , a average date cost for both people is like within the range of 30-50$ lets say i go on 4 dates well thats 200$ just like that... yeahhhh fuck that!

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  • Speak for yourself I have no issues with it.

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    • That's fine good thing at no point anywhere within any part of this did I say this was all guys *rolls eyes*

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    • You don't have to say all.

    • I kind of do if I'm trying to say I'm speaking for all the guys. Which I'm not. I even say I'm not and talk about guys with different opinions in the take. Which leads me to believe you never even read the take...

  • Between "It's feeling unappreciated" and "Ladies, if a man saw your time as being worth nothing more than garbage would you really want to spend time with him? Because the reverse of this is happening when girls say a guy needs to pay to show he appreciates her time. Our time is worth so little that not only is it free but we even have to pay a girl for sharing our time with her." You completely knocked this out of the park. Extremely well said! This entire myTake was brilliant and well thought out.

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  • If she's not working, or I know/presume that I make way more than she does, then I'll pay.

    Otherwise i'll go Dutch, so nobody feels used.

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  • Why should women insist on paying their share?

    To show respect and demonstrate that they are a responsible adult who wants a partner not a father, that she she is a decent human being who is not looking to, or willing to, take advantage of another person.

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  • You make a very good point - Maybe it is best to go on a few cheap or free dates first to get to a position to talk about the financial arrangements of first dinner date etc - I am not a fan of the guy pays, it creates tensions and expectations I feel

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  • You could have just included a TL:DR version of it right here:

    "if I get a smell of entitlement from a girl that I should pay or they're annoyed I didn't take them somewhere fancier I'm extremely turned off. I want them to be dating me not my wallet."

    So unless it was me, who asked out and the girl isn't annoyed by the date, this rule is applicable. I would leave her on the spot and move on.

    Downvote me all you want. I will not change this rule.

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  • Or it's because you're a cheap bastard. LOL at beta cucks not paying on the first date you seriously can't pay $30? Remember, YOU asked her out on the date.

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  • Another reason

    -you pimp it so much and so its not economical to pay for a date every night of the week. she go to da bar she gets bought ONE drink and we're OUT

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  • Some of the best dates I've ever been on have been scenic walks or going to get coffee. It doesn't matter who pays or whether the date cost anything at all. The conversation and getting to know one another is the real worth..

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  • Whoever does the inviting should pay... typically 99% of the time it will be the man !! However DO NOT go on expensive first dates , as this puts pressure on BOTH parties , & will signal to the woman on the date , that this man has to BUY her affection & shows " neediness " which will = rejection for the man. Best tip for men is keep it low / no cost , until she has EARNED something bigger & better !!

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    • saying "whoever does the inviting pays" when you know damn well it'll be the man is just a euphemistic version of saying the guy should pay.

      If you ask your buddy to go out with you on the weekend does that mean you should pay for him?

  • One of the benefits of not paying on the first date is to see if she's there for you and not the free meal.

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  • i dont know whats so hard about looking at the bill, identifying what you ate, and paying for what you ate. then he looks at the bill, identify what he ate, and pay for himself. why is that so difficult?

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  • It's the same type of fear women get if they have sex with a guy. They feel used.

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  • i didn't even read this, because i disagree with it from the very get-to. I think that paying for the women on the first date is respectful, and is the right thing to do. I feel like if you don't like doing it you're just downright stubborn.

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  • *Round of applause* I don't upvote myTakes often 👍

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