Make Her Split the Bill!

[pavlove]

Gentlemen, Gentlemen...

The time has come. We all know it has. We take out girls who have their own money either from themselves or their parents. Hell, sometimes it's even MORE than we have and even in the face of that some girls expect us to pay for EVERYTHING.

Consider why you don't want to make her split the bill even though your logical mind tells you that this system of you paying for everything makes no sense. Even though you know it's...

-an antiquated system based on a SEXIST society that underpays women/ discriminates them in high paying positions thus necessitating the need for a man to take care of her financially

-not financially conducive given that nowadays most people are talking to MULTIPLE people all the time thus men are having to pay for 3 to 5 dates a week while women are allowed to go on upwards of 3 to 5 dates with 3 to 5 DIFFERENT men without ANY CONSEQUENCE that all PAY FOR HER. She can basically live off dates while he gets drowned in their expense...

-not truly showing that you respect the gender since you are taking an action which assumes you as provider though she doesn't NEED IT

The reason you do it anyway is because either you're a Disney character or more likely THE GIRLS ARE MAKING YOU PAY OR JUDGING WITHRDRAWING FROM YOU. This is a part of several strategies:

make him wait-----make him chase-----make him pay

This is not a conspiracy. The system is designed for two thing--to confirm you're interested and to make it impossible for you to do the same thing with every girl given that it draws heavily from two major resources: MONEY AND TIME. It is not to enslave a man but it's a system that most effectively leads to an eventual relationship with the happy byproduct of a lot of free meals. To be fair, a meal with a very boring guy isn't enjoyable even if the food isn't bad (thus how some girls are so ballsy they'll even get their food to go if she's getting bored even though he's paying.)

So, gentlemen, realize that you can never have back what you had because the world itself has changed. Women are often outearning and god bless that they are able to do so! We live in a MORE FREE America that doesn't discriminate. You can now fully expect your lady to be on your level financially and so it shouldn't hurt either of you to split. Of course, if it's a special occasion or you are going on the night out SPECIFICALLY TO SHOW HER YOU LOVE HER you pay but for a regular night at TGI...she can pay half.

I know it will be difficult. I know it feels anti-romantic but this is where we are now. There are other ways of establishing polarity in a relationship (the bedroom is really the only place you need) but when it comes to the restaurant booth WE SPLIT!

-------------

Things to consider:

-Not all women will want to date you, some will just have a rule that the guy always pays. Their mother taught it to them. They won't change it. YET many women who usually live by this rule will be impressed and swayed by your conviction and will act as you would like them to act...

-Don't make a political speech about it. Don't defend the position at all. Just say I don't do that. I have women split and leave it there. Any attempt you make at defending your position will just be interpreted as an excuse for you to be cheap.

-Be prepared to see the ugly troll under the make up facade as some will be come VERY ANGRY at this.

-Make sure you do other things to show romantic interest. Some girls will interpret this as you not being interested in them as a serious partner.

-Realize that while you lose some girls doing this, the girls you do have a the girls every guy actually wishes he had. the reality is a girl who usually pays her own and is fine with it and there's no sexual/romantic consequence for it is an amazing trait.

-Don't feel you're taking advantage of her. Remember you're the one actually respecting her dignity as an equal member of the work force and her talent as a potential millionare/billionare just like yourself

[UnknownReflection]

I understand the kind of battle out there. I share my opinion while i am rarely into such games. However, you have some good points to make yet i feel you've been little bit furious as well.
-I embrace Chivalry and one of my principles is to pay for my girl. You can say all you want. This is a choice and i take it on my own.
-A date and furthermore a relationship should be empty of such very unwise games. There must be balance, i mean even tho i strongly willing to pay, but there must understanding in the middle. And if it's not. The relationship is not going to continue and the parties are not worthy.
-A man must be stupid if he choose to date girls who are only seeing the value of a relation with financial capability. Then he complains but yet continue being a payment slave of those kind of women and be left alone. "This" is not girl's issue. It's the stupidity of men.
-My girlfriend has the least value for financials. She doesn't care about money. She is independent, she always wants to work hard and have an equal share. We share everything and we have an understanding. The point is what's inside my pocket is hers and what's in her pocket is mine. It's always been the same from the first day to now which is six years since we are together.

However, for such first dates or other certain dates, i see it totally necessary to pay on my own. It's just my principle. (However my girlfriend would slap me in the fact when i say that) lol!

[snowangle]

Fun fact: it was my father, not my mother, who initially taught me that the guy always pays.

But I've since grown up. For two years I was in a relationship with a guy who would sometimes pay, and I would sometimes pay, and occasionally we'd split. And last night I went on a first date and we split. It's not a big deal. I'm a feminist and I appreciate being treated as an equal.

That said, I don't mind when a guy insists on paying, either. I treat people to food/drinks/whatever if I'm able. It's just being nice. But yeah, it should be a choice and not an expectation.

[steven7890789]

You are different from most women. Most women only want gender roles that affect them to go away.

[englisc]

I'm more traditionally minded myself. I don't mind paying for dates. Often when meeting girls here they would say that they couldn't meet me because they didn't have money, and I'd have to reassure them that it's fine, I'll pay for it. Most would eventually agree to a date and appreciate it. I liked that because these girls cleary didn't feel entitled to my money. Maybe that's more of a problem elsewhere, I don't know, but in the UK this has been my experienced.

Having said that, some have been like the girls here. It wouldn't bother me so much if they weren't so hypocritical with it. These same women are very quick to whinge about sexism and gender roles in almost every other area than this. In fact the girls I dated were less feminist minded than these women seem to be. You'd think these women constantly complaining about the mythical wage gap and all that stuff would expect to pay their share, but they don't. And then, they have the nerve to call men "cheap" or "petty" for not paying for them?

I remember one girl I met who on the first date, after I bought a few rounds of drinks, went on about "cheap men" taking her on inexpensive dates. Then, she told me how she was working and saving her money for something, I can't remember as I'd lost interest in her by this point. But basically she expected a man to spend money on her while she saved all of hers for herself. No thanks.

So basically while I don't mind paying for girls who are appreciative and aren't hypocritical, spoiled, entitled, fuck the ones who are.

[Bandit74]

I think you made a great point about people seeing multiple people at a time. So the woman would be getting multiple free meals a week while the man is paying for multiple meals. You also have to consider what a waste that is for the man over time if most of the dates never evolve into anything sexual/romantic.

I also don't really see the logic in the "whoever asks pays" argument that everyone keeps bringing up. What is it about asking that makes you obligated to pay? you're both taking a risk on eachother and willinly giving them time that you could have used elsewhere. Besides the logic of whoever asks pays doesn't seem to apply anywhere else. Like if a girl starts a new job and one of her female coworker asks her if she wants go out for drink after work she isn't going to expect her coworker to pay just because she asked. But suddenly when it comes to dating and the guy is the one asking then suddenly he's morally obligated to pay =.=

Another thing to consider is that girls aren't really consistent in holding this expectation. The same girl who expects you to pay to take her out has probably sent nudes/had sex with men who didn't spend a dime on them. Now, personally I would rather be THAT guy. He got the better deal if you ask me. I also find it somewhat insulting if a girl was willing to sleep with other men without expecting anything from them in return but then with me they aren't even going to go on a second date unless I pay for the first one?

The way I see it is the more a girl desires you the less she expects from you before being willing to sleep with you. So if she's going to lose interest in you just for not wanting to pay for the first date then she probably wasn't that attracted to you in the first place and didn't see much value in you. Or at least its safe to say she is not as into you as she was with the men who she slept with free of expectations.

[Hopefuldreamer8]

My mother raised me to pay for my own things, and I always do. It makes me very uncomfortable when people pay for me, and I am upfront about this. My mom has always believed if you want anything, you have to earn it, and you should never rely on anyone. So that's the way I live my life. Someone wanted to pay for my 30th birthday and I refused. I don't even like asking for people for help when I need it. It takes a lot for me to admit it. So not all women will feel this way about dates. I prefer it because it was the way I was raised.

[pavlove]

Wish I could mho

[Sonjita]

It's not really about the money, it's not about how much you spend. By paying on a date you show that you are generous and that she is special to you. If you're low on cash you can just take her to a coffee or ice cream or whatever you can afford, it doesn't have to be some expensive drinks or fancy dinners. The girl will still appreciate it. In my nation splitting the bill is rare. Here everyone fights because everyone wants to pay :D What we do is you pay on one date and I pay on the other. But again if the guy insists on paying all the time, it's ok, I'll just surprise him with some present or something. Those people that insist that everyone pays their own drink, count every cent and later remind you that you owe them a dollar or something disgust me.

[dontknow12]

While I don't disagree with what you're saying, I just want to point out that guys are afraid the girl we're seeing is only interested in a free meal ticket. Which is how this whole make the woman pay thing started.

[pavlove]

But again with the way dating has changed an average guy can easily go on three or more dates in a given week with threee different girls. and again it's a date especially a first one you aren't special to him and yet this is the one where more often the guy is expected to pay for both for no reason

[Sonjita]

Well that's because the first date is the first impression and by the end of it you can tell if you would like to see her again, and have something more. If not, ok, don't bother, insist on splitting if you care for a couple of dollars or those principles of yours so much, but if you realise that you like her, you will probably ditch all that philosophy :P

[pavlove]

It's actually the difference of possibly hundreds of dollars given how frequently I date

[pavlove]

I typically go out Monday through Thursday each night is a night with a new girl so yea can be pricy

[Sonjita]

Well everyone invests in their hobby so if dating is yours accept that :D unless you want to be bad at it :P

[altair212]

but most girls now aren't special so why would we let her think she's special to us?

[tyber1]

@Sonjita the fact that you think paying for a date is so critical that not paying makes you 'bad at dating' is really telling. Basically you let people buy your affection with money. Actually, you encourage that they do. Very sad way to live your life.

[pavlove]

@tyber1 and no one is calling her a gold digger it isn't a need of money but rather allow self esteem where she thinks she's important because a man has spent his money guess what men paying for hookers all the time. It doesn't stop us from playing the heck out of you but the irony is a woman who pays her own gets our respect and makes us think twice before treating her dirty

[tyber1]

Yeah I'm not saying she is a gold digger because that's about seeking someone out for their money, this is more along the lines of being really foolish and allowing a mans financial generosity to play a bigger role in the process than his personality. I mean, if she's telling you that not paying for your dates meal makes you bad at dating, then she is the one who is bad at dating, her priorities are messed up. Anyone who would turn down a good partner because they expect you to pull your own weight, I feel bad for them. All they do is sabotage themselves and make dating more unpleasant for everyone.

[Sonjita]

@altair212 Well if she's not special why even waste your time with her?

[Sonjita]

@pavlove Wow. Well what do you know, maybe I am a hooker.

[pavlove]

not not a hooker just desperate for the validation of having men buy you things in order to feel special. clearly you can't feel special on your own

[Sonjita]

@pavlove
I don't say you have to pay but it's one way of showing affection.
This discussion is pointless cause it's all about offending me.

[Izumiblu]

Im fine with you doing this. Just count me out. There'll be other girls out there that are good with this.

First and foremost there is just a social etiquette that should be followed. The host pays, whether its a guy or a girl. There's no need to sit down and start splitting a check, its a dinner for goodness sake. If its really that big a deal to you, then find a gal that values things the same way. Just do me a favor, when you ask me out tell me that you want me to pay my part and give me the option to say no thanks, i dont wanna be your half guest. I think that's fair. I think its reasonable for you to go do your own thing and find people that share your value on this.

[DanReynolds]

Lol if you do it like that it's gonna be the guy who ends up paying everytime because lets be real how many women EVER ask out a guy

[Izumiblu]

@DanReynolds i asked out my current boyfriend, the money is not importnt to me

[pavlove]

Lol that again doesn't hold up as men by far are expected to ask the girl out although again that's based on a system where men would exercise more power and freedom and though a woman simply couldn't ask a guy out. Anyway it also doesn't hold up because both people putting their cards on a bill can literally be done at the same time and then you sign a bill at the same time literally nothing abou that is time consuming. See the reason what you say makes no sense is because you're trying to bend logic to rationalize the fact that you want something based on emotion and not logic. It's really it just dinner it's the fact that it contradicts everything that female empowerment and gender equality is about. That being said yes I'm upfront morally I'm glad to know if a girl doesn't have any dignity or understanding of what women went through to give her financial freedom

[Izumiblu]

It doesn't matter what you think holds up or not. It's what i do and what i was taught by my own father. The fact remains that I have not fallen short of men willing to pay for a date, i have no need to accept what you think is right for you.

In case you were wondering how it would work out should you ask a woman like me out, here's how it would go. If you said lets go out for dinner and split the bill, my answer is "no". If you didn't tell me in advance and sprung it on me at the dinner, i would graciously pay for the entire meal nd then never talk to you again. Either way, i make the decision to not go out again, not you. Its a reality that you have to live with whether you like it or not. So like i saaid above, continue doing what you like, it doesn't bother me, you are entitled to do what you want. Spare me your small minded thinking and tell me in advance what you are about so i dont have to waste my time on an evening with you.

[flypaper]

Agreed. There is nothing wrong with wanting to split the bill and their is nothing wrong with not wanting to date someone who wants to split the bill. Dating is for finding people you mesh with well who have the same values. Nobody should be trying to guilt anyone into anything... into paying for the whole thing or for splitting the bill. Can't agree? Then just don't go out... find someone else.

[fuuuark]

If you need a guy to pay for you in order for you to continue dating him, you are by definition a whore/prostitute, he is actually paying to date you, and in turn will have had to spend money on you to sleep with you, so yes you are a whore!

[Izumiblu]

@fuuuark No one said its needed, no one said that its pay for everything or stop dating. I mean really, i get that you are all overly emotional and worked up about it, but quit thinking wth your dick and work on your English comprehension. If at the end of the day you still can't figure this out, go back to the gutter you crawled out from and get the whore you deserve.

[fuuuark]

"when you ask me out tell me that you want me to pay my part and give me the option to say no thanks, i don't wanna be your half guest" That elucidates it as necessary that he pays. You are saying that it is a prerequisite for you to accede to a date that he pays. So yeah, whore!

[Izumiblu]

@fuuuark lol, i didn't read anywhere that sex was part of the date... go back to your gutter tramps, you're not in my league

[fuuuark]

But the date is a prerequisite to eventual sex isn't it? affect and effect! still means he is paying for the sex that may come at some point in the future from the progenitor that is the date.

[Izumiblu]

@fuuuark , this is only in the context of dating, not relationships... i never said i require a guy to pay for everything, i expect there to be a balance over the long term where things equal out. I do not need or want money from a guy, i have my own life, my own job my own money.

[fuuuark]

Doesn't dating lead to the relationship? so what i said remains the same, paying for the date is a progenitor to the eventual sex

[Izumiblu]

@fuuuark

like really, can you not add? I dont know if you're just dense or bitter... so i'll spell it out for you like i would for a computer

whore: sex = cash
relationship: girlfriend = sex + mutual exchange of common resources+emotional bonding+exchange of ideas and mutual learnings

Its not hard to figure out for those that choose to see. If you want to continue arguing with me dont bother... im right, you're wrong, that's just how the world works... not matter how you say it 2+2 will never equal 3. Good bye.

[pavlove]

You forgot that to add that the whore is ten times hotter than you are haha

But look if you prefer a man who pays instead of splits on some level money factors into your attraction. He's just pointing that fact out that you have whorishness as part of your womanhood no shade it is what it is but you're not wifey material I pity the poor bloke who realizes this too late

[Izumiblu]

well, look at the loser climb out of from under the cow patty,. When you can't force people to see things your way you attack with insults, its pretty much how id expect you to be. All you can think about is the cost of a handful of meals when compatibility is more important and a relationship built on respect is much more than that. I told you already, you have the right to follow your own path and there will be women that will share your values. I am perfectly fine with accepting that and that i am not interested in those values. I have not tried to force my view on you, i simply say that i am aware in advance so I dont need to waste an evening. Your small mindedness comes from trying to force your views on me and then insulting me for not agreeing with you. You are a small minded little man that doesn't deserve the attention from any woman regardless of whether she chooses to pay or not.

[steven7890789]

It is pretty sad you believe in gender roles still. I am so glad my girlfriend is different.

[Izumiblu]

@steven7890789 ohh, dont be sad for me, i have a good life, so does my guy, the both of us are happy... not only that, but you will find that most guys will prefer some degree of traditional gender roles. Its a social structure that was created out of need and will continue to exist so long as there is more than one gender.

[flypaper]

Why must people try to guilt others for their opinions. Steven there is nothing wrong with what she wants nor is there anythinggn wrong with what you want... you guys just wouldn't be compatible... that's it.

[fuuuark]

You should read the definition of whore, it isn't only exchange for money, i says usually money. If a man needs to pay for dinner, impress you give of his time and resources before yo let him sleep with you, you are trading these things for sex, while the guy would sleep with you without you doing a single thing. So yes, you are still a whore by very semantic scrutiny.

[pavlove]

"but you will find that most guys will prefer some degree of traditional gender roles" i feel like your age prevents you from seeing how fast this is changing. you're getting old

[Izumiblu]

@fuuuark again, you only continue to demonstrate your sutpidity, because you still haven't figured out what being a whore is, i reckon part of it is because you can't even afford one so why bother?

@pavlove well, at least you made some sense with that one, there is a difference by age group here as well as social status, but its not that it is traditional or not traditional, there are varying degrees... i am very non traditional in comparison to many women, but i consider myself still traditional, like i said before, i never said you were wrong, i said only that it won't work for some women and whether you like it or not there is nothing wrong with that either. You haven't considered what it means to be long term in a relationship in this. No one makes anyone do anything, the pair does it because they want to be together, not because someone wants a free #3 at mcdonalds. You haven't laid out the context of all of the other aspects of a relationship either.

[pavlove]

@Izumiblu I did acknowledge that not all women will be ok with this no matter what and that a guy should even expect sometimes to encounter women who get downright angry at the suggestion.

I don't know how a long term relationship would change anything. Any lawyer will tell you that when one person earns a lot more than another person be that the man or the woman that a prenuptial agreement should be signed. Both lawyers and accountants would advise against all assets being in one person's name. All this to say that a lot of historical women's suffering stems from this dependency system. now america has changed and given women a chance to no longer be dependent and yet women like you want to stay in the dependency system. do you see now how i'm more of the feminist than you are? I expect a woman to be just as successful as I am given she has the same opportunities so then why would I continue to pay for her? I just don't feel i need it to romance a woman or to display myself as a man

[Izumiblu]

thats fine, im not looking at it as a rmonatic gesture, nor do i expect a many to continue paying... i expect things to be equal in the long run... i am employed and am able to take care of myself, i expect a guy to be able to keep up with me, thats it. THe other thing is, i dont expect a guy to pay anything on a date. I can think of any number of things that are acceptable to me that cost nothing or next to nothing. Its not about the money.

[pavlove]

I'm glad we were able to reach a resolution

[fuuuark]

I know exactly what a whore is, through a dictionary and logically inferring to a basic degree. I have to dumb down my language almost to the level of solecism, yet you still can't understand.

[Izumiblu]

@fuuuark thats what all morons say, you can't help it, i get it... be gone fool

[fuuuark]

Your lexicon and cognizance is so far below mine, so you will only calumniate about me, instead of adding anything germane and/or veracious.

[Izumiblu]

@fuuuark hahhahhahaha

[fuuuark]

Close to the response i conjectured from you.

[Izumiblu]

@fuuuark this just keeps getting better... this is to fucking hilarious to be serious, but it almost seems like you really are serious... anyway, well done if this was a joke, if not, please feel free to continue posting away

[Izumiblu]

@fuuuark what argument, i quit arguing several posts ago, now im just enjoying your responses

[fuuuark]

I am too, as with every response you make, this contretemps makes me look like an ameliorate of this discourse and you look vacuous.

[Izumiblu]

@fuuuark you are fucking hilarious

[fuuuark]

You are fucking obtuse. But you are also farcical to me.

[Izumiblu]

@fuuuark perfect response, please continue haha

[fuuuark]

Na, bored now.

[pavlove]

are you two love birds still at it?

[Izumiblu]

no, i got his cell phone number, we're going out on a date tomorrow, i agreed to pay for half

[pavlove]

Proud of you

[Izumiblu]

i couldnt resist the overwhelming nature of his intelligence

[Elarra]

Lol, nope, and here's why.

Anybody who wants to be this petty about paying for a date isn't someone I want to be with. I want to be with someone who wants to pay because the person I'll be with will be someone I want to pay for and treat and spoil.

Money should only be a factor in a relationship if the person you're worth has terrible spending habits. But I've never believed in splitting the bill. One person or the other should pay. I pay for my guy sometimes and he's paid for me, too. But never have we ever split it. We don't care. There's other things in a relationship to be concerned about and who's going to pay for this $20 dinner bill isn't one of them.

People are so damn petty these days...

[pavlove]

That doesn't make sense either. But I'm not surprised you don't really understand how money works. You probably spend with no budget even in you your head like a child. Also you calling someone petty is yet another pathetic and cheap shot at a man for not doing what you want. I feel sorry as hell for any man who has to go on a date with you but I trust that he will quickly know to find a better woman than you

[notreallythere]

Yeah I agree. My girl paid for our first date and if she had tried to split the bill I would have probably moved on.

[pavlove]

@notreallythere you're a weird man. why would you want another human to pay your bill that wasn't your parents when you've had every opportunity to succeed in this world.

[notreallythere]

@pavlove, I completely agree. I think I should have made it more obvious that I was just demonstrating how utter ridiculous her opinion is.

[Pyrofox]

I mean really wish women would catch on to this. Like honestly willing to at least come half way. Is only going to fuel a guys urge to do chivalry acts. When women particularly greedy girls demand that the guy pay the bill. Its like a million lightbulbs go off explaining why they dont have a guy. If you dont show you got what it takes to be the other half in a relationship no one is going to want to take the risk. I mean at the end of the day dates and relationships are expensive.

Kinda the way how I look at it is like trying to light a fire with gasoline. If its liquid there's never going to be enough oxygen for it to burn. But if you finesse it and get the air to spark ration just right you get a nice fun reaction. That can be addictive.

[samhradh_leannan]

I'm more than happy to split the bill (or take turns paying). But personally I think it's very romantic when the guy pays for the first date. And if he doesn't at least offer to, I'll wonder if he had a good time. But if he pays for the first date, I'll pay for the second.

I get where you're coming from, and I agree with you. Women should be paying their fair share. Just don't forget that there are ways to make sure your relationship is equal without being rude about money. Be tactful with how you treat this, and you'll come out ahead. But if you do this in a way that makes your date feel crummy, you'll lose lots of opportunities. Don't make her feel like you're assuming that she won't be willing to pay unless you throw a fit.

[jamesma87]

Most women nowadays are more than happy to split the cost of meals, but paying for the first date is usually a nice feather in your cap since it shows you CAN look after her (which girls that are looking for a relationship will value).

Personally I dont mind paying but I also expect the girl to pay for future meals occasionally to balance things out a bit. Simply saying "I'll take care of it this time, you can get the next one" is good enough to establish that you are self respecting and not just going to wine and dine a woman all the time, essentially buying her affection.

[pavlove]

lol tell that to all the guys who get the text after paying for a meal "i just don't think we have chemistry" women can' be just as dirty about it as guys

[vonasaurus]

i am pro splitting the bill and have always paid my own way on dates (since some guys tend to think that buying us drinks=sex, even in 2016). so i just eliminate the possibility of someone thinking i "owe" them by covering my own costs.

(my boyfriend of 2 years and i take turns paying or we split. like, if he buys dinner, i pay for the movie, and vice versa.)

that said, i agree with @Elarra that someone who is as petty/bitter as the op is not someone i want to be with.

[pavlove]

So funny I get called bitter when really it's that i respect women Enough to not want to be with one who can't handle her own shit and am simply tired of society judging guys who realize traditional values need a serious update. Stop trying to make little passive aggressive insults it's beneath even someone like you

[archiz]

that s pretty relative.
now usually in Lebanon we have more traditional values and a lot of the guys usually pay and men is seen as the main provider.
Now in my opinion, the one who asked the person out should pay.
If it was planned by both parties then both pays.
I actually don t like it much when guys pay and usually take the bill before they can try to pay themselves.
I usually think paying for the date should actually come later when you re both actually together and work as one. Then it s not between us anymore sometimes I pay and sometimes he pays it doesn t matter anymore cause we work together.

[pavlove]

i like this a lot actually. still, how do you address the fact that these "rules" were made up when men were seen as the top providers and the job economy reflected this in better pay and better job opportunity. now the only thing keeping men paying for dates is the shame they feel for not living up to their "responsiblities" even though again those were made when they were was an unequal distribution of income among the genders

[archiz]

well I don t live in the states so men here usually have more advantages and are usually the main providers.
Other than that I still hold on some traditional values and I see women should be a bit more protected since you have pregnancy and taking care of the child.
So I still think males should take on more on the financial issues if the couple is planning on having kids.

[pavlove]

taking care of a child... birth control. abortions. no woman has to take care of anything she doesn't want to...

[archiz]

I said "if the couple is planning on having kids"

[ThisDudeHere]

Highly convenient to have the one who asks out to pay when it's expected of men to ask out, meaning that guys will pay all the time anyway.

[archiz]

@ThisDudeHere not really
Usually most of the time it s planned together.
At least in my case
And I even asked the guy out.
Plus likr wrote before, for me paying usually comes later in the rl when you re both actually together.
You just took one phrase from all I have said out of context and criticized it 😛

[rjroy3]

For the most part I've always just asked for two checks on the first date. If she has a problem with it she can bring it up to talk. But no girl has and if they didn't say anything. Paying has never been make or break it for a date. And the only bad experience I've had is a first date I did pay for lol. To me it's not really about the money. It's about investment and whether or not she really likes me for me. That in her mind I am enough for her time and that I don't have to spend money in order for her to spend time with me. But I'm also banking on the fact she likes me.

[pavlove]

That's a good point too so many guys get friendzoned after the free meal and a lot is no investment on the woman's part besides time. Personally while I haven't usually had the girl pay anything i have had her drive to my neighborhood. It seems to workout better

[AlphaMale1]

When early dating I let it be known up-front that we go dutch. We both pay for what we order.

The reason is there are people out there who only date for "free food". I am serious.

There is no commitment from either person. If they want both agree to have a date at a place where it will cost money, go dutch.

I have found it is better to go on dates that are out in the open and free. There are a lot of beaches in Michigan so a walk on a breakwall is a good date. Another good date is go grocery shopping. If both are single then both know about shopping for food. There is huge common ground here and you can really learn a lot about your date if you pay attention. Don't fill up a shopping cart with stuff. A few items, even if you don't need them today you can always use them later.

[Iron_Man]

Yes it's long overdue, the time has come. I spent over seven years breaking my ass for my last girlfriend buying her everything she wanted, taking her to fancy European vacations, paying rent for her apartment, buying her clothes, paying for her electric bill, you name it I did it. The time has come for the woman to take care of themselves, pull their own weight. Now my new rule is after the second date that being a good sign of faith that she should split the bill with the man 50-50

[pavlove]

Why even do the first date?

[Iron_Man]

I dont want to be too hard on them, that's why I said a good sign of faith at first

[snowangle]

Dude you spoiled your lady. I'm sorry she took advantage of it but I promise that there are plenty of mature, responsible women who wouldn't let you buy everything for them.

[Iron_Man]

Well shw lived with me later on, she was a good helper to my parents and me

[BubbleBoy69]

@snowangle Would you tell your man if he spoiled you like that to stop or keep milking him?

[snowangle]

@BubbleBoy69 I wouldn't let him! I'd feel guilty if he was offering to do everything for me. And I don't like being dependent on anyone either.

[Anonymous]

I dunno I reckon if you split, you send the message that you're just a friend.

I think it's opposite to most pua's who claim 100% if you don't pay you're a lover automatically. Yeah or you could be viewed by the girl as a dick. And not a lovable dick, but someone they not only won't sleep with, but will bad mouth to everyone else.

I reckon you pay if you wanna signal you like them. And if she starts playing games acting innocent because of that then fine, don't date her.

But offer to pay, otherwise I think you're just friednzoning yourself if you make her split it.

[pavlove]

I reckon you should try it before you knock it

[Opinion Owner]

I mean I have tried and found it gives off a friends vibe tbh. I'm not saying you pay for someone you don't like, if you don't like the girl, then don't continue to date her. The girl should also be impressing you for you to like them. If you do though, I reckon you make a gesture which shows interest. I mean I think if you pay for a female friend then she should take that to mean you like her. Otherwise I'd split it with her. I would consider it weird if she somehow thought of me a friend in the former and a sexual being in the latter lol.

[RainbowFanGirl]

To be honest I wouldn't mind paying the whole bill for the guy. Just to be nice.

[hahanoway]

Girl, you rock!

[RainbowFanGirl]

@hahanoway thanks

[lualesca]

Easy upvotes. :D

[AleDeEurope]

If she wants to act like a whore, she can find another man. Not gonna deal with a woman who expects me to pay for her. I pay if I want to, not if she wants to.

[pavlove]

Well said dude

[Anonymous]

Absolutely. It's pathetic how women want everything to be advantageous to them.

These are the new rules:
-1. She will pay for half and make half the effort.
-2. She will sleep with you before you decide if you want a relationship.
(2) Now that we know that most will, let's just expect it. I figure that's fare trade for putting up with the craziness.

In the end we are men. Women do want us and need us. They are doing anything they can to become us. We just have to demand what we want in the end they will have to accept it. And they are too unorganized and so prone to emotional tangents they take forever to influence change and usually it gets muddled up by emotions along the way. Just look at feminism. They acted like such retards now even many women hate it. Lol

[umngopher1991]

Jesus, I just listened to this radio segment and it sums up a lot of girls at my university who claim to be "strong, independent feminists".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbNaMm4GV7k

These same "feminists" still strongly believe in male traditional gender roles. So much for equality.
Real strong independent feminists, in my experience, work their tails off, don't complain, get the job done, and see absolute TRUE equality between men and women. They don't rely on a social movement to get ahead in life.

[arineunha]

the guy has always paid for me for a first date and he was interested in me, other times we take turns. if we hang out as friends that's different, we pay for ourselves and split the bill.

I saw so many of these mytakes and questions on this topics for a long time now, I don't know the huge deal

[pavlove]

your boyfriends a chump