Why it's a Myth That Girls Don't Like Nice Guys

[Anonymous]

The issue here most of the time isn't that girls don't date nice guys, 70% of the time the " nice guys " she denied were ugly or not attractive enough to date. Most people wouldn't date someone they find unnattractive. Being nice had nothing to do with that.

30% of the time a nice guy gets denied is because he was a pushover or gave too much too fast. We rarely value things that's easily obtainable, overdoing it can make it lose its value. Either that or he had certain flaws that was off putting even though he was nice.

Then there's guys that aren't nice but call themselves nice guys. They get denied for their looks or personality, even both. Sometimes those guys claim girls don't like nice guys, but they weren't nice guys to begin with.

In all of these cases, being nice didn't have anything to do with being rejected. These guys started the myth and keep spreading it.

Most of the time attractive girls like it when a hot guy is nice and those girls clearly express it. I'm not saying there aren't more attractive traits and ways girls can be more interested in a guy. I'm saying being nice isn't considered a bad thing most of the time.

Most of the nice guys who are attractive and not losers, awkward, insecure, or pushovers tend to have good success getting women.

Attractive bad boys get a lot girls too for other reasons I'll explain in another take.

[AleDeEurope]

There's really just one reason: "because it's a fucking stupid assumption."
Assuming no girl out there likes nice guys is basically saying your dad's an asshole. You're also calling your mom stupid, for liking an asshole, and same thing with the rest of the female members in your family. Like imagine going up to your lovely grandma after she's fatten you up all day with food, and you go like "yo grandma, why are you so stupid to get married with an asshole like grandpa?"

I get being undesirable is not a good feeling, but come on, being an idiot and assuming girls don't like nice guys is not gonna change anything. There's many factors to why a woman may reject a nice guy, and unless she's actually stupid, being nice is not one of those things.

[samhradh_leannan]

Good point. The attitude that women don't like nice guys is insulting to both genders.

[Sara413]

What it comes down to is that being nice is a basic expectation - not a trait that is attractive in and of itself. If the only thing a guy has to offer is the fact that he is "nice" of course he's not gonna get any dates. People crave interesting conversations, fun activities, shared interests and values... those and looks are what make a person attractive.

[Sara413]

I should clarify that I agree with your take and was simply adding my 2 cents on the topic.

[myTake Owner]

I agree with you. You went into detail about "he had flaws even though he was nice" point in the take. This take just gave the short "general" explaination. The traits you mentioned could be lacking in a nice guy and he'll get rejected because of it.

[Robin48]

That is a lie. What makes a person attractive is what they have on the inside of them. The body is just a body. It the human who is living inside the body that is attractive. .

[blondfrog]

Being nice is actually a rare quality to have. And very few people are actually genuinely nice

[Sara413]

@Robin48 obviously, what's inside matters most but you're lying to yourself if you think physical attraction doesn't count for anything...

[Sara413]

@blondfrog I guess it depends where you look and who you surround yourself with... my life is full of genuinely nice people.

[Cosytoasty]

@Sara413 agreed.

I got a shock the first time I read somewhere on here doing things any normal decent person would do is considered "nice".

[CancerianMan81]

if that is what a woman really wants then the woman or women are always going to be disappointed quite a bit

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 huh?

[CancerianMan81]

cause anything that man has is not a woman's privilege

[CancerianMan81]

cause in the relationship there can't be no motive

[CancerianMan81]

you can't go into a relationship expecting to get anything out of it

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 you're really not making any sense here...

[CancerianMan81]

if you truly want to love somebody do without a motive cause that's what true love is

[CancerianMan81]

yes I am making sense

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81

No... you're really not.

Where is this talk about motives coming from?

This conversation is about how being "nice" isn't enough to make someone attractive - it's a basic expectation we have of people.

[CancerianMan81]

expectations in loving somebody has to go out the window

[CancerianMan81]

you want to know why cause people in general can't be subject to change

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81

We'll that's just ridiculous... everyone has expectations. Wanting someone who is nice to you is pretty fucking reasonable.

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81

Again - what are you talking about?

I didn't say anything error about expecting people to change?

[Robin48]

We are attractive to a person who looks nice, take care of their self. Many people are attractive to another human by lusts of the body. That is what I talking about is wrong. When I met my wife in college. It was her energy level, the smile on her face that I was attracted to. No lust, or sex fantasy.

[CancerianMan81]

then @Sara413 your loving for all the wrong reasons

[CancerianMan81]

if the person him/herself is in love with him/herself then that's more than enough to be with that person

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81

OK I'm done trying to make sense of your babbling... nothing that you've contributed here makes any sense or has anything to do with the topic at hand.. you're just babbling.

[Robin48]

Sare413

That is what I what to be around with. Nice people. It like when I go to Sears and buy my dress shoes and work shoes that I call to see the same person there before I go over. When I buy my shoes and this person ring up my shoe and I paid them. When I leave them. I feel so good with a high level of energy. The same with my wife and the kids. They what to be around nice people that builds them.

[CancerianMan81]

yeah you keep thinking that sweetie

[Robin48]

@CancerianMan81

Correct. When we love others, we not asking for anything back.

[CancerianMan81]

@Robin48 yeah but women like her will tell you otherwise

[Sara413]

@Robin48

I'm not talking about asking for something out of them beyond the typical and reasonable things people want from a relationship: companionship, love, etc... and wanting to share those things with someone who is compatible in terms of personality, values, etc. That's the whole point in having relationships. And that's why people don't just get into relationships with just anyone. They have to be a good match for each other or its just not gonna work.

[Sara413]

And my whole point initially was that a person being nice doesn't mean they have the traits or characteristics that the other person is looking for. Most people expect a certain level of niceness out of others, whether they're romantic suitors, friends, family or coworkers... because it's a very basic social expectation, it doesn't really count for anything. Not being nice can certainly be a negative, but being nice isn't a positive - it's basic human decency.

[CancerianMan81]

you didn't just say that you also said looks... Looks don't make for who the person is their heart is who they make their self to be everybody knows that

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 yeah but most people are initially attracted to someone physically.. it's just the way humans are wired.

[CancerianMan81]

expectations is not a requirement not if you love the person for their heart alone

[CancerianMan81]

that's what I go for not anything else if the woman I love has a good heart that's all I need that's it nothing else okay

[CancerianMan81]

and that should be the way with everybody else

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 so you'd be content spending the rest of your life with a bland woman with zero personality and nothing interesting to say and who shares none of your interests, just because she has a "good heart"? Have fun with that... I'll just be over here with my partner who I enjoy being around and find attractive inside and out.

[CancerianMan81]

I didn't say that and your putting words in my mouth

[CancerianMan81]

of course she's going to share my interests and me share hers as well WTF!!!

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 ok then we are back to me having absolutely no fucking clue what point you're trying to make.

I give up.

[CancerianMan81]

and what gives you the right for the way things are with you to say that their better than what other people want

[CancerianMan81]

you don't get to make that decision for what other people want

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 um... no shit? At what point did I say that everyone else should want what I want?

All I said is that people have things they look for in a partner besides "nice"...

[CancerianMan81]

and that's where your wrong

[CancerianMan81]

contrary to popular belief people want love

[CancerianMan81]

and anybody who says they don't is a fucking liar

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 ok you're just being annoying for the fun of it aren't you? No one could possibly be so incapable of maintaining logical links in a conversation...

[CancerianMan81]

believe what you will I'm just speaking the facts

[CancerianMan81]

it ain't my problem if you can't read between the lines

[Bluemax]

"If the only thing a guy has to offer is the fact that he is "nice" of course he's not gonna get any dates."

Curiously, if all a person has to offer is looks, he/she can definitely get dates... and sex... and the occasional relationship.

If by nice you mean polite, then yes that's basic and common. If by nice you mean a genuine desire to reduce the sorrow in the world, a willingness to help people from whom there's virtually no chance to receive anything in return, charitable with time and/or money, and courage to stand up and do the right thing even at personal risk, then I respectfully but strongly disagree. That tends to be rather rare in the people.

[lumos]

I agree with you Sara. I've been saying that for years myself. Being a decent human being is not an achievement. It's expected of you, it's what your parents teach you to be from the moment you're born.
And @Bluemax I think you're reading a bit too much into what "nice" means. Smiling at a stranger is nice. Letting people get off the bus before you get on it is nice. Thanking a waitress for their good service is nice. Having a hot cocoa on a rainy day is nice. Nice is, at the end of the day, a pretty bland word. The things you describe deserve more serious words than just "nice". The things you describe are actual achievements, and using "nice" to describe them would be downplaying them.

[Robin48]

@lumos

You are correct. The word nice are uses when people are able to use someone else. If he or she does what I what and I get what I what. They are nice. It does not work that way. You could be my parent. I am your child. I ask you about something to get. You can say no. Are you not being nice. Yes, you are being nice. I see it as not being nice because I do not get what I want. That goes on a lot with people relationship. Relationship today is base on how nice you are in getting what I what.

[Sara413]

@Robin48 you're really stretching here and it feels very much like you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Most people have the same basic idea of what nice means, and it's what @lumos described.

[Robin48]

Sara413

I am not stretching it. Not all women but most of them see a male being nice base on what they do and what the women can get from him. They are just as many nice males out there as nice females.

[Sara413]

@Robin48 lol well if that's your view on women I can see why you don't do well with them...

[Bluemax]

@lumos

Quite right, lumos. Quite right. The thing is I've heard people use "nice" to describe people who've done the things I've mentioned. Give a lot to charity? That's so nice! Risk life or limb to help someone? He/she is sooo nice! Etc. I've heard it with my own ears.

[Robin48]

Sara413

I do well with women. I also marry. You female put up road blocks and love to insult males. You female are not better than males. Males are no better than female. I speak the truth. For the truth will set you free. It funny how you said my view of females, look in the mirror. You female view of males shows why you have so much of issues with males. . The bigs problem with most females with males is that it about you.

[Sara413]

@Robin48 I don't have issues with males actually... I'm in a common law marriage and my two best friends are men... I'm tight with my father and brothers. I have lots of male friends.

But ok.

[Robin48]

You have a nice day Sara. You are finished. My spirit is at peace with God. You have a nice day. I sure I have more female friends than you have males friends. I sure I have more males friend than you have males friends. You what to have a debate but I not. The Holy Spirt who me the truth and the truth will set me free. You women need to look in the mirror and see yourself. Female has issues. It not males. Females worse enemy is herself. Look in the mirror. The reason why I am a great husband and father is that my wife let me be what God call me to do.

[Sara413]

@Robin48 put down the kool-aid...

[Bluemax]

And the Don Quixote Golden Windmill goes to... Sara413!!! For her epic attempt to get guys to understand what should be crystal clear!!!

;)

Seriously, I'm just teasing you. I often disagree with ya, but I'm a fan. You're a good person.

[Sara413]

@Bluemax I do think some of this might be language and cultural barriers but who knows. There are a lot of weirdos on this site too.

[Cosytoasty]

@Sara413
Your fate awaits you
orig11.deviantart.net/.../...slerblack-d33svyw.gif

[CancerianMan81]

@Robin48 the one thing that women like sara is they don't really know that people like us is the resistance for me I don't have to condone peoples behavior if they want to live their lives like that I don't have to be part of them nor anybody else for that matter

[CancerianMan81]

oh and @Sara413 you are going to find out soon enough

[CancerianMan81]

you know what I find is women don't allow a man to be who they really are that's the fucking problem here

[CancerianMan81]

cause you always here women say I don't fucking like my man being nice I want him to fucking man up I don't want no goddamn pussy and that is the problem that women make cause that's the kind of attitude that turns nice men into assholes and then turn right around and say where have all the nice men gone and then when us men try to confront you women you get in this victimology and attack us men making things more worse for ya's

[CancerianMan81]

you don't know what makes man cause you're not a man yourself so you can't really say or do anything that you should tell us how to be a man

[CancerianMan81]

I don't think manipulation and control ain't going to work well with men anymore cause we're tired of it

[CancerianMan81]

another thing is us men are going to get tired of having to care what you think of the way you want us men to be and do whatever the fuck we want to do and if you women don't want like the way for the way that we are then at least us men will have our freedom to not have to deal with you women and having to put up with you're bullshit then you can go around and tell everybody how men are fucking bitter and how we put you women through so much bullshit cause we don't condone for the way you're behavior is how you women want to claim victim hood because you want to get what you want cause it's so much better cause you can take a shortcut in life without having to do anything boy if that's women's idea of a perfect life then women can just keep me out of their life cause I don't want to have to deal with that and I honestly don't think any man would want to either if a man would he would have to be really ignorant

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81

K.

[Robin48]

@CancerianMan81
Thank you. That the problem with women. They think what they said overrides what we said. They wrong. Women always has to have the last two cent in everything someone else said. They are never wrong.

[Robin48]

I not lying to myself. What makes my wife beautiful on the outside is what inside. My wife shines likde a bright light. I am a Psychology, Sociology, Biology, Education, Business person.

[CancerianMan81]

@Robin48 I know brother we're in this together don't pay those kind of women no mind they don't deserve it for me it's getting to the point to where I don't care if women like me or not they want to be pissed off at men and acting fucking bitter because they think that they don't have a shot with a good man then them fucking have it

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81

Tours are both reading waaaaaaay too far into what I've said and twisting it to suit your victim narrative. Nothing I've said can logically be interpreted as bitter towards men. You're just being silly now.

[Robin48]

Sara413,

I do not drink kool-aid. My family does not drink it. I stand for what is right and correct. You are not winning with me. I stand much taller than you.

[Robin48]

@Bluemax

"If the only thing a guy has to offer is the fact that he is "nice" of course he's not gonna get any dates."

That is incorrect. Nice guys of both gender meet more people. Related more. They will get a date.

[Sara413]

@Robin48 of course nice people get more dates - but not if the only attribute they have to contribute to a relationship is the fact that they're nice.

A nice guy who is interesting will get more dates than an interesting guy who's a dick... but a nice guy who's boring will probably get fewer dates than a dick who's interesting, though neither the interesting dick or the boring nice guy will do well at keeping a relationship.

[Robin48]

You have to be more than just being nice. To have a relationship with both genders. There is about 20 some charities that haves to be added. One of those is a strong moral.

[Sara413]

@Robin48 ok so we agreed then... so why are we arguing? That is why I've been so confused by all your comments.

[CancerianMan81]

I'm just stating what you fucking women have put me through weather you think I'm playing the victim or not cause you can think whatever you want to I'm just sick and tired of having to fit in with whatever women want to box me into and claim that whatever I put them women through is a load of bullshit women and their fucking attitude towards men we wouldn't be in this problem if women wouldn't have a chip on their fucking shoulder and blame men for all their problems and try to manipulate and control men into what they want men to be but no we got to go through all this bullshit

[CancerianMan81]

and also we wouldn't have this problem if women try and get to know the man before she goes and judges him right off the bat

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 dude... you need to find a better outlet for your anger. You've chosen me and this comment thread as a target for your bitterness and anger even though I've said absolutely nothing that is relevant to the things you're angry about. I've said nothing bitter or disrespectful about men. I've said nothing that would indicate that I expect more from a man than I give him. I've said nothing that indicates that I feel like a victim of men. Literally all the things your pissed off about are irrelevant to the actual conversation here. I don't know what set you off or why, but you need to deal with your shit. You say that women are the problem, because we blame men for everything? Meanwhile, all you've done over and over again here is blame women for everything. Do you not see the hypocrisy there? Women and men are individuals. Neither gender is bad or to blame for all our problems.

[CancerianMan81]

it does whenever they are attacking me

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 No one is attacking you...

[CancerianMan81]

you were yesterday

[CancerianMan81]

if you don't want any problems in a relationship you let the man take care of what he's got to take care of without and motives in mind that's I said you can't have any motives when loving that person

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 you go right ahead and re-read this entire thread and tell me where exactly I attacked you...

[CancerianMan81]

@CancerianMan81 so you'd be content spending the rest of your life with a bland woman with zero personality and nothing interesting to say and who shares none of your interests, just because she has a "good heart"? Have fun with that... I'll just be over here with my partner who I enjoy being around and find attractive inside and out. that don't classify as lowering me and make your way being better than what I want to happen with what I want to do

[CancerianMan81]

it seems like it to me

[CancerianMan81]

and the level of arrogance that women have is getting on my last nerve

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 maybe you need to reconsider what you think an attack is... I was trying to make sense of the things you were saying. Admittedly, I was getting pretty frustrated and annoyed by that point, but that was certainly not an attack. You've repeatedly accused my entire gender of being bitter and hateful, without basing any of those accusations in any of the things I have actually said - but you have the audacity to call my mildly annoyed comment an attack? Come on...

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81

Perhaps the problem isn't that women are arrogant. Perhaps it's that you immediately take a confrontational approach to any dialog with a woman while also doing an inadequate job of clearly communicating your perspective and explaining the connection between the points you are making and the points made by the person you've started an argument with.

[Sara413]

One individual being a poor communicator is a much more logical explanation than an entire gender being arrogant.

[CancerianMan81]

and rightly so be females have been towards me you don't lower me to make yourself higher than me you can put in work like I fucking did there ain't no fucking shortcuts in this life sister

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 I'm sorry - could you please clarify what you are trying to say and connect it to the points that I made in a logical manner?

[Sara413]

Writing in full sentences would help.

[CancerianMan81]

I don't stand for arrogance there ain't nobody better than me and excuse me if I have ADHD go on ahead and call me retarded it'll just make you be an evil bitch

[CancerianMan81]

go on ahead and pick on me some more that way you can make you look more worse than me

[Cosytoasty]

"I can't stand for arrogance"

"there ain't nobody better than me"

Dude, stop digging that hole deeper lol.

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 more worse?

[CancerianMan81]

@Cosytoasty do you think I fucking care no

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 I never called you retarded. I don't use that word as an insult. Also, I don't stoop to personal insults.

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 you very clearly do...

[CancerianMan81]

yeah you're picking on a man that has ADHD

[CancerianMan81]

well let's pick on me so you can make yourself look good

[CancerianMan81]

cause that's what a lot of people do to me

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 maybe you could try not picking fights with people in the first place. Might help solve that issue for ya.

[CancerianMan81]

you just got to understand I'm frustrated as hell

[Sara413]

@CancerianMan81 I can see that.

[cth96190]

I disagree with the opinion piece.
It has been my observation that between the ages of about 15 to 30 females get all tingly in the crotch over the most worthless lowlife sociopathic scumbags they can find.
What they call a 'nice guy' is someone who has manners, a career path and good personal hygiene.
Most young women are not interested in decent men, until they get to about 30 and have the epiphany that Mr Harley MacBadBoy and Ivor Necktattoo are not husband material. . . and they need to get married and have babies because they can hear their ovaries begin the countdown to zero.
Until that point, they are happy to soak up all the attention that goes with riding the bad boy cock carousel, as it has been called.
It has been said that a woman of 38 would kill to get the sort of men she rejected when she was 18. I have observed this to be true.
During my teens and 20s I could almost not get a date, even though I ticked the boxes on the wish list that girls were supposed to have.
I had a growing media career; I looked good enough for my head to be on television from time to time; I was an honours graduate; I had a reserve commission in the army; I liked European clothes and cars; and my family had money.
My 'mistake', which I did not come to understand until much later, was that I treated young women with courtesy and respect and expected them to demonstrate a rational cognitive process, rather than treat them as bitches who were too vapid and narcissistic to have a rational view of anything.
When the big shift in demonstrated female group preference occurred, not long after they and I were on the wrong side of 30, I found that women were hitting on me in ways that would have been unthinkable a few years earlier.
What I saw then (and see still) is a former carousel rider, for whom I would not have been 'fun' or 'exciting' enough when she and I were 20, who is looking for a financially and psychologically stable man with whom she can have the children she wants. Or, can be cuckolded to provide for the Mini Me versions of those exciting bad boys, who are snapping at her ankles.
No thanks. Go back to the bad boys who used to excite you so much. You deserve each other. You can find them, or someone much like them, in the nearest welfare housing project. You made your choice. Enjoy.

[abcdgg]

If by career path you mean engineering, accounting, or some other average job, sure, maybe that won't entice girls to date you. But get a great job (management consulting, ib, hedge funds, PE, etc) and I promise the girls will come to you.

[cth96190]

@abcdgg
I was a print and television journalist and presenter. The girls did not come to me. They wanted retards who wore flannel shirts and had minimum-wage jobs.

[Kkaos]

That is absolute bullshit. Manners, career path and hygiene has absolutely nothing to do with it. Those are all attractive qualities in a guy.

What she's attracted to is also someone who's confident, assertive, has high value, isn't going to worship her and make her feel uncomfortable, someone exciting, someone fun to be around, someone who has a lot going on in their life. Etc etc. All of that. It's is possible to be ALL of those things and still be nice at the same time while still maintaining a level of self respect.

A "nice guy" has little self respect. He'll buy a girl things because he thinks it makes her attracted to him because clearly he has very little going for himself that will attract her. He thinks flooding a girl with attention and never disagreeing with her will make her like him. He'll devote all his time for her. Etc. He's a pushover, he's got no value. That's a 'nice guy' and that's why she's not attracted.

Huge difference.

[Kkaos]

@abcdgg None of those 'average' jobs are going to turn a girl off and it takes more than a job to attract a girl.

Engineering actually is listed as an attractive job for men along with doctors, lawyers, pilots, management etc.

[Anonymous]

Women are attracted to:

1. Looks (Height/Face)

s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/.../...7c1b779919.jpg

2. Money

www.pipubs.com/.../women-want-money.jpg

3. Social Status (Popularity/Job Status/Social Connections)

outlookafghanistan.net/.../social_control.jpg

Think of the above 3 categories like 3 test a man has to take. Think of the man in question as a person trying to get into a University (girl). Now each girl weighs this differently. Some girls who date older men care more about STATUS/MONEY (which increase with age), while others who are fitness queens care about looks more.

Now women do not value KINDNESS per say like men do. While it is nice women don't hold it in the top categories of what they are looking for and can be just fine getting into a relationship/marrying a man who isn't kind. While for men kindness is valued as it is linked to nurturing qualities that men look for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8vMTur_0ac&t=1s

So to sum it up women do not value kindness. The 3 things above is more important to them and many women are fine once the man meets these minimum requirements in what she is looking for in a man. The remainder of what else is missing can be filled by beta orbitors and her girlfriend.

farecoppia.it/.../Friendzone.jpg?itok=z3uw3KWo

[samhradh_leannan]

Exactly. A guy can be nice and still have a thousand other qualities that make him unattractive. Being nice is great- necessary, even- but it's not enough to automatically make you an attractive person or instantly get you your dream partner. That's not how it works. When a girl rejects a nice guy, she's not rejecting him because he's nice. She's rejecting him because she doesn't feel attracted to him, doesn't click with him, or doesn't feel that they'd be a compatible match. And those are legitimate reasons that can apply to even the nicest guy.

Your other point is also true. Many self-proclaimed "nice guys" aren't actually very nice. They think that because they're not some gangster on a motorcycle, or because they want marriage and kids some day, that somehow automatically makes them a "nice guy". But being nice doesn't simply mean having traditional values or not being a total scumbag. It means being a genuinely kind and compassionate person who treats others with respect. Many self proclaimed "nice guys" who I've spoken to are some of the most uncompassionate, self centered, and bigoted people I've ever interacted with. And yet they think they don't have a girlfriend because they're "too nice".

[Browneye57]

Well, you don't indicate your age here, so we must assume you're too young to know better.
You're confusing 'nice guys' with AFC's - average beta chumps. And the latest crop of men coming up are more beta than ever.

What women are looking for, beside being the opposite of what they're saying, is an alpha male with strong leadership qualities, physical strength, and good looks. Money helps too. The ol' biology kicks in and what really makes the vag-tingles is a guy that looks like he can protect her from intruding marauders and wild animals. In modern times that's a guy with smarts, money, and good looks, that isn't a wimp.

So, the solution for young men today is to hit the gym, hard. Make lots of money, and pursue your aspirations - become a success. Then you'll have your pick of the best women out there, one that can become an adjunct to your life, not the center of it.

Being a strong alpha male doesn't mean being an asshole. And pretty much has nothing to do with being a 'nice guy' either.

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

I don't necessarily conflate AFC's with Beta. Maybe I'm wrong in the PUA terminology (which is stupid in general), but AFC implies a dude that can't get laid at all, whereas Beta is a dude that gets women, but more for relationships than casual sex.

[Browneye57]

@HungLikeAHorsefly You need Rollo, badly. Read the first two year's blogs here then report back: www.therationalmale.com

Then go here, read some more, particularly about GAME: www.illimitablemen.com

And no, AFC doesn't imply 'can't get laid', it's not getting laid and not having enough gumption to do anything about it. It's a totally submissive position and not where a guy should be nor wants to be.
And no, beta is not a dude that gets women - they're not impressed at all. Women come to loathe these types of weak men. Then they either bail or cheat.

And no, PUA isn't stupid in general. Ignore it at your peril in the dating world. If you don't have at least some game you'll not be able to get something going with any women. It even helps when you're married - if you can't or won't game your woman she'll get so f'ing board she'll either shut down or bail. Hence AFC. :)

[HungLikeAHorsefly]

Yeah, I've been over the PUA stuff. I'm not really big on the whole "game" concept - I find it a little juvenile. Anyway, I do just fine with women so maybe I'm already a Red Pill guy lolz

[Kkaos]

Well said, I've noticed your opinions are always on point and there's some good advice here too.

[CancerianMan81]

I don't see a way around it you do have to force women into submission

[Browneye57]

@CancerianMan81 Actually, if you're a normal awesome self they'll submit to you. The WANT to submit. But they have to respect you first. Some call it vagina-tingles.

Remember, you cannot negotiate attraction, desire, or passion. It's either there or it isn't.
If a woman wants you she'll break all the rules to fuck you. If she doesn't she'll make up a new rule every day why she cannot.

[CancerianMan81]

right you can't

[CancerianMan81]

but you would be able to notice that she would anyway

[CancerianMan81]

fear is to easy to spot

[Bleh-___-]

Why is "nice" automatically lumped together with insecure, pushover, and in general, a loser? I've immediately rejected every guy who was considered a "bad boy" because playing games, being rude, and hurting others is unattractive to me. Why would I want to subject myself to a crappy relationship? It's possible to be nice without being lame. The guy I like now is damn cool. He's confident and interesting, and guess what, nice.
Change it to "insecure guys finish last" or "pushovers finish last". Seriously, being nice is not the issue.

[EnglishArtsteacher]

You make a good point.

The funny thing is, many "bad boys" are actually insecure, and have a low self-esteem-Which is why they give this "bad boy" outer shell.

[red324]

Aww I knew you were the good girl type :) My assumption was correct :)

[Kkaos]

There's no problem with being 'nice'. But there is a whole negative connotation surrounding the term, "nice guy"... It's different from being a guy who is also nice. The "nice guy" in all reality, really isn't that nice at all, it's all fake. Not always, but more often than not, his niceness only extends to those he's trying to get with.

[singlebee]

This deserves MHO..

[troychapman]

definitely

[Bleh-___-]

D'aww thanks. You guys are so nice :P

[spoonman2014]

I notice the ones who scream out at that they are too nice are the ones who jacked up lives and think by letting some girl run all over them that she will be there's

[red324]

@spoonman2014 This is what Bleh is trying to explain.

[Pyrofox]

@spoonman2014 Well sometimes what gets considered "too nice" could be just that the guy actually listened to his ma when she was teaching him how to be a gentleman.

[red324]

@Pyrofox lol. I wish my mom would have taught me how to flirt with women and swoon them instead. Would be much better off.

[Pyrofox]

@red324 Mine just taught me to be nice, hold doors compliment where they are due and sometimes to be brutally honest. Which I have found to help me avoid awkward situations.

I have never been a guy who felt the need to force love or want to have love forced upon me. I simply live with the life style of always noticing the little things which can have big effects.

[red324]

@Pyrofox Oh I always notice the little things, the question is whether or not I should mention them without her thinking I'm some kind of creep that's been paying too much attention to her. lol

[Pyrofox]

@red324 Thats why you pick your battles some stuff girls appreciate whether or not its meant nice or not. Cause a lot of women manage to miss really obvious things when their brain goes on overdrive, and yes this can apply to almost everyone. But it seems women are especially prone to over brain acceleration.

[Felinegirl]

I like guys who are nice, interesting and compatible with me. "Nice" means he's not an asshole towards others or me (I once got turned off because a guy kept saying hurtful things about people, especially when he didn't know those people were my friends)
Interesting includes all things like intelligence, cool hobbies or music taste, humor... the ability to impress me and to get me to think "wow he's amazing" which can be because of anything.
Compatible is most important. Someone can be nice and smart and successful and all that, but if he's a completely different person than me, chances are it's not going to work out.

[weirdusername]

Thank you, this sums it up. I don't like pushovers but if you're an asshole and is super hot my twat will dry up, either that or I'll use you for sex and never talk to you again, I met a really hot guy years ago and boy was he gonna get it but he tries to be a bad boy too hard, talk about women he's had and talked to me like I was a slut, I used to just put him on speaker so I can laugh at him and trust me he was super pretty but his attitude was a put off. Sometimes I wish I'd humped him and just dump him but my pride wouldn't let me, he'd think that his behavior was okay. Most unattractive guys who are like 2s want you when you're a, 8 and up so they play nice and creepy too, when they don't get to stick it in you they say they're nice and get rejected, um no.

[troychapman]

hump him and dump him thats not very nice

[myTake Owner]

Why'd you get downvoted so much?

[lyannamormont]

I agree with the pushover type nice guys...
I had dated one back in September.. he asked me what i was looking for. I said i am not attracted to him but he is a nice person and we have things in common so we should be friends. 1 hour after i said this, while he was leaving back home he wanted to kiss me by force at the door. I said no, i already told you what i think about you. What he said was he had to do it or he would feel bad otherwise. Then he started texting like crazy, asking out and spending time everyday. It was annoying. And he "was" a nice guy...

[troychapman]

that sounds like a fake trying to force you and guilt trip you into kissing him then get crazy obsessive through texts when you already said not interested sounds more like a creep

[lyannamormont]

@troychapman agree that's why he "was" a nice guy: lol

[troychapman]

i thought a nice guy was a guy whose just a nice person

[Robin48]

@troychapman

Yes to your comment.

[Anonymous]

A guy who self identifies as nice, has nothing else going for him.

I rank the guys in the following way.
#1 Interesting nice guy (Women love these guys)
#2 Interesting asshole/jerk (They will tolerate a certain amount of dickishness, cause he's fun and makes life interesting)
#3 Boring nice guy (The vast majority of "nice" guys)
#4 Boring jerk (the lowest of the low)

Nice guys who think they can get girls by being a dick just move from 3 to 4 on the list, then get incredibly bitter that it didn't work. Especially when they see #2's getting girls and thinking it's the jerk aspect that makes them successful.

If only they wouldn't be such boring uninteresting dull saps...

[samhradh_leannan]

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. A person who can't think of a more interesting or unusual way to describe themselves probably doesn't have much going for them- and they may not actually be all that nice in the first place. It's just such an easy thing to say, and such an easy thing to believe about yourself. But many self proclaimed "nice guys" aren't thinking about how truly kind, compassionate, and respectful they are towards others when they make these claims.

A guy who is genuinely nice but a little boring probably won't attract as many girls. But when he does find a girl who is a good match for him, the relationship will probably last. Jerks who are more interesting might attract more girls, but most of them will leave once the initial excitement wears off and they realize he's an asshole.

[Opinion Owner]

@samhradh_leannan Precisely. But notice how the guys disagree...

[Bandit74]

I agree. How you look is the biggest determinant of how many girls will want to date/sleep with you, especially in your youth. if you're hot you will be able to effortlessly sleep with girls even if you're an asshole and if you aren't hot then you will struggle to get any girls regardless of how nice you are. Niceness doesn't play much of a role in increasing or decreasing the ease at which you can attract girls.

That being said, some girls do find men with the "dark triad" traits (MACHIAVELLIANISM, NARCISSISM AND PSYCOPATHY) to be more exciting and attractive. Even when looks were controlled for, "women rated the high DT character as significantly more attractive".

www.sciencedirect.com/.../S0191886913012245

[Cosytoasty]

Well that's a better description than "bad boy" at least.

The trick of being that dark triad is that you never go so dark that it becomes obvious to them. A lot of women are easily manipulated.

[Bandit74]

@Cosytoasty
Do you consider yourself to be one of the dark triad guys?

[Cosytoasty]

I guess I would say so. I lack fear, but have empathy and remorse and I can be pretty manipulative with a touch of narcissm. I definitely have that blend of being genuinely nice and genuinely an asshole at times - in fact I'm often told this by women.

[Bandit74]

@Cosytoasty
You lack fear entirely?

In what ways are you manipulative?

[Cosytoasty]

Not completely lacking, but I'm not afraid of many things others are. Fear of dying, or of my girlfriend leaving me for example - It's just not something I dwell on.

As for manipulative I tend to go above and beyond for girls until I "get" them, then I inevitably get bored and string them along saying all the right things while I find someone else... but I don't outright cheat on them 🤔

There are just certain lines on those traits I do not cross.

[Robin48]

Hey to everyone. There is an article on the internet that talk about nice and the qualities of being nice. Can someone search this and come back to all of us and then paste it under this question.

Notices: A real person who is nice does not step in other people space without being invited. Nice persons will respect the private things about you. A nice person does not let others step into their space without being invited. Nice persons will respect their self with personal things about their self. A nice person does not gossip about their self or others. A real nice person will keep their relationship with others balances.

[Robin48]

Sara413, have you ever think about getting counseling. It would be good for you to deal with your issues. You just what to keep on and on. You got to have the last two words after everything someone said.

Let me drop a bomb on you. You date and hang around people who are like you. So if you hang around a nice male. Then you nice. If you not nice and you hang around a male who not nice.

Honestly, female really don't how to pick a male friend. I neve had any issues of picking female friends or male friends. I bond with people who are like me. That had the same ethics, values, morals.

[TripleAce]

Seems to be a connection between attractive and confident which also equates to more arrogance and narcissism. Which is why attractive people are not just more successful because of their looks, it's also because they exhibit a level of conviction that is magnetic

Attractive and arrogant - common
Attractive and a nice guy - not so common
Not attractive and arrogant - average
Not attractive and a nice guy - common

--> Attractive and a nice guy is probably the least common

[Heythere2013]

I have learned the hard way. Any guys who claim they are "nice" guys are bad news. Real nice guys don't claim they are nice, they are just themselves. When I begin to date a guy, I don't say I'm a nice girl, I show them w/my love. The guys that have claimed to be nice guy, usually don't turn out to be that nice. I have also noticed the "nice" guys tend to blame their exes for what went wrong in the relationship.

[myTake Owner]

I agree completely. Generally speaking if someone has to tell people they have a certain trait , they don't have that trait. Whether it be nice, drama free, smart, etc. A person who had those traits wouldn't feel a need to have to tell people it and we would be able to tell by interacting them.

The exception is when they stereotypically appear to not have those traits. This is because people's subconscious clouds their judgement about this person. For instance a big scary looking guy might have to try harder to prove he's gentle then say an average or nice looking guy. A guy who looks like a drug addict and talks in a stoner voice would likely have to try harder to convince others he's smart than a nerdy looking guy would. There's other cases and traits that are masked by a negative stereotypical appearance, tone, and mannerisms.

Other than that, if someone has to say their "nice" they aren't nice.

[Heythere2013]

very true! They turn out to be the complete opposite of what they say they are!

[ASEXY]

They generally don't care about whether or not he's nice because they typically want a guy who they find attractive and who they can get along with. I agree with a lot of the stuff you wrote because I witnessed the same things. Unfortunately, I'm not nice but girls are attracted to me because of my looks...

[SovereignessofVamps]

I think lots of nice guys try to approach the hottest girls. The hottest girls reject 99% of guys, but they take it personally.

[Robin48]

That is a lie. Nice guys have a very high standard of morals, values, and ethics. We pick ladies, not girls, and women. We what our female friend to be at the highest level of standard. Good quality.

[EnglishArtsteacher]

Well, who do you consider "the hottest girls"? Because I've came across girls I barely find attractive, and they seem to be exceptionally picky.

People don't understand "the hottest girls" is objective.

[Kkaos]

I used to believe this crap about how the hot girls are flooded with guys and are rejecting them all. Until I actually had hot girls show interest in me and realized rather than me being some extra special person, they really don't have guys after them all the time.

Most guys, especially the nice ones, will believe hot girls are stuck up and bitchy and therefore be intimidated by them. It's only the confident guys with a self perception of high value who actually approach them and more often than not, hot girls are really nice. It's usually the less attractive girls who can be mean due to them getting a kick out of it due to their insecurities.

[SovereignessofVamps]

@Robin48 See, you're being really picky! So you'd still have a way higher chance of being rejected.

[Unit1]

Wow, I do have to agree.

If you look at my response, it kind of proves your point also.

[Robin48]

Be behind me Satin in the name of Jesus.

[CancerianMan81]

says you @SovereignessofVamps when I've had hot girls want to be with me

[CancerianMan81]

but the reason I didn't want to be with'em is because of the way they live their life I want to have a girl that has morals that's what a man wants not some damn girl who is always making mistakes all the time and is always getting in trouble

[spoonman2014]

I wish men knew that being nice and being a door mat are two different things. Also being nice can't negate other factors in your life like felonies, several baby moms, lack of motivation etc etc

[j8k322597]

its a myth because nice guys like like me are too shy to go up and try to talk to them in fear of being turned down. I've been with an attractive girl, and the only reason it didn't work was because she wasn't ready for a relationship. we got along great. just go out and try, even if you are nervous, its normal.

[Raymond_Reddington]

Remember the breakfast club? John Bender the badguy, already had multiple girlfriends, gets the popular girl. Andy the jock, gets the shy girl who actually is pretty hot. And Brian the nerdy nice guy? Gets no one. Women dont like nice guys. Period.

[Sara413]

Lol @ basing your worldviews in teen movies...

[Raymond_Reddington]

@Sara413 the fact that its a teen movie has nothing to do with its message.

[Sara413]

Still a movie dude..

[Raymond_Reddington]

@Sara413 the sole purpose of a movie is to convey a message to its audience. Whether that message is directed towards teens or adults doesn't matter in this case. Girls generally go for badboys or jocks, rarely for nerdy nice guys. John Hughes knew that and so do you.

[Sara413]

Breakfast Club is one of my favourite movies of all time, and I love the general message about how despite being so different we also have a lot more in common with others than we think...

But that has nothing to do with the conversation. You're using a fictional work to "prove" what real life relationships are like and that is fucking ridiculous

[Raymond_Reddington]

@Sara413 i dont see why i would even want to prove anything to you. But the fact is that girls dont like nerdy nice guys. I dont even need to prove this because everbody knows that is true.

[myTake Owner]

Dude nerdy nice guys are usually ugly, have offputting interests, or unnattractive in some other way. That's why they got rejected, not because they're nice. Which is mentioned in this take. They were nice but got rejected because they had offputting flaws even though they were nice.

[myTake Owner]

Also don't compare movies and TV shows to real life, they show extremes and exaggerations for entertainment.

[Raymond_Reddington]

Do you really think women are that shallow? That they refuse to date a guy because he's ugly? If a badboy was ugly, he'd still get girls.

[myTake Owner]

I forgot to respond.
But yes, that how the world works. Most people won't date someone they find unnattractive. If an ugly nice guy got rejected because he's ugly, he was rejected for his looks, not being nice. Him being nice had nothing to do with him being rejected.

[Raymond_Reddington]

What was this all about again?

[Anonymous]

Ditto with chicks. My (female) cousin who is super nice is very overweight and awkward, and a 25 year old virgin who has barely been kissed.

Being nice is doubly expected from females... It helps people feel pleasant in your company, but doesn't drive sexual and romantic interest.

[EnglishArtsteacher]

Honestly, some of the most promiscuous girls I know (Nice, or not) are overweight women. I think this is because many of them get so desperate, they find ANY guy who will have sex with them.

I know it's a harsh stereotype, but the "easy fat girl" is very common it seems.

[Opinion Owner]

I do know a few fairly overweight promiscuous women (usually not huge) but like you said they usually have very low standards. And also they often pretty faces and good social skills if they're still getting attention.

My point is my cousin just isn't sexually attractive and is quite awkward, but she IS very nice. And she's basically invisible. I'm saying is being nice in itself just isn't a sexually alluring trait.

[troychapman]

thats true

[Jamesol1]

I agree with this. I think what pisses them off is that they may be decent looking... but they will chose the guy who is hotter and of which treats her like crap or is nasty to others. Ugly guys cannot be saying stuff like that though... You need to be nice without being a push over basically. Don't put someone else on a higher level because they look better.

[LovemesomeBumbleBee]

How come we don't have so many slander campaigns for nice girls?

[Jamesol1]

@LovemesomeBumbleBee What do you mean by slander campaigns?

[Jamesol1]

@LovemesomeBumbleBee I do think looks matters more to women then it does to men. Guys are yes or no. girls are like well he isn't my ideal man so he is going to have to persuade me before a really handsome man comes along. As from reading what the girls have said... that guy would have to be a real ass hole to her for her to say no thanks.

[LovemesomeBumbleBee]

Nice guys are often demonise by both men and women as being fake nice, not genuine and a total monster. Basically slander and demonization of the character of men authenticity to be nice. While no such claim or campaign is ever directed towards a nice girl.