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Societal pressure placed on men to "Take the Lead" in the romantic dating scene is unfair to men

In the United States, 1 out of every 5 boys are sexually abused by the time they reach adulthood. This amounts to 20% of men in American society have been sexually victimized. If you estimate that 48% of Americans are men, that means out of 300 million Americans, 144 million are men. If we estimate that 144 million Americans are men and that 20% of them are abused, that means that roughly 28 million American men have been sexually abused.

This may be a conservative number to to the lack of reporting that many men may have.

We live in a society where women expect men to take the lead in romantic relationships. Men who have been traumatized by sexual abuse are faced to relive their trauma by being the initiators of sexual requests and consent. Women posts on GAG asking how to manipulate men to ask them out or kiss them or have sex with them. All of these things foster an unfair stereotype of men being sexual aggressors. It forces victimized men to play the role of sexual initiator or sexual aggressor to fulfill some boneheaded concept that initiating a date or a kiss or sexual interaction is exclusively the job of men.

I celebrate the confident women out there who view the dating world as an equal playing field. I cherish the women out there who are comfortable in their sexuality and have the courage to say, "I really like you. Do you want to go on a date sometime?" or "This has been fun do you want to come to my place?" or just simply has the guts to hold the shy nerdy guy's hand and kiss him.

I am a survivor. I wish I had that experience when I was a young man. I would have felt a sense of acceptance in those first years and experiences of sexuality. My memories of sex would have been or acceptance or love or even just fun. Not anxiety attacks and fear stemming from childhood abuse.

More women are sexually abused than men. But the stereotype of dominance placed on men puts an unfair pressure on them. Can we agree to equalize

Societal pressure placed on men to Take the Lead in the romantic dating scene is unfair to men

who leads in romantic dating?

Societal pressure placed on men to "Take the Lead" in the romantic dating scene is unfair to men
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Most Helpful Girls

  • PinkMichae
    My heart goes out to all that have had to deal with the trauma of being sexually abused. The way I see it is everyone is different. Some guys are gonna be shy and some girls are gonna be shy. Its gonna take that one person who isn't shy to pursue them. And there are plenty of women who aren't afraid to approach someone they like. But even the women that don't approach men usually have their ways of getting you to notice them. So at the very least guys need to do the same. If you don't we could be completely oblivious of your existence. Whether you're a man or woman you gotta put yourself out there if you want a relationship someday. Those who don't cut their chances down a lot to getting noticed. I've been rejected a few times and it sucks. But I eventually told myself it's ok if someone doesn't like me romantically. I move on and don't quit. And yes I've been sexually abused too. But it didn't make it hard for me to pursue someone I liked nor did it give me anxiety about being sexual with someone. It's not my fault what happened and just because someone abused me doesn't mean sex is bad. Perhaps I dealt with my abuse soon enough to not let it affect my sex life.

    One last thing men do in general think about sex more than women. Study after study proves that. Not only do men think about it more it's more straightforward than women. Women think more about the emotional connection of sex. We are not as simple thinking when it comes to sex. And of course this is generally speaking because some individuals can be different then the biological norm of their gender. Age can make a difference too as men start to get older possibly losing testosterone and women hit their sexual peak in their 30's-40's. I also thing we are too different to be equal in every way which is fine. We embrace each other's differences that make us come together.
    Is this still revelant?
    • I agree

    • ecfresh

      You are right. Not afraid to admit I am turning 41 soon and can tell I think about sex less often then I did as a 21 year old. Obviously it’s still an exciting topic but yes as we age our bodies change and thankfully our minds can adapt.

    • Hey I live in Independence Mo
      My gm r_pin_tersub

    • Show All
  • SweedyPie
    This deserves a freaking medal. I don't live in the US but I have been saying for years that society puts too much pressure on men both generally and relationship wise.. Pressure to be "strong" pressure to be "brave" pressure to "make the first move" pressure to be "macho" pressure to "not cry" pressure to be financially responsible for their SO, pressure to not rationally and openly discuss their issues and concerns like a normal human being.

    The result? Higher rates of male suicide, increased cases of domestic abuse, low self-esteem, increased depression rates. Geez. I feel like I could start a campaign on this topic. Men are humans who deserve the same basic rights to feel their emotions and get emotional, speak out, be sought after, not be expected to foot the bills, or as you said not necessarily be the aggressor.

    People who have the balls to tell my young gentlemen that big boys don't cry get the icy stare and subsequent long lecture that such unintelligent reasoning deserves. I am disgusted by that kind of mentality. These people need to be educated.

    Excellent Take! 5 stars!
    Is this still revelant?
    • Apope16

      Thanks a lot!

    • SweedyPie

      You are very welcome :)
      The only country I've seen so far without this preconceived notion is South Korea. And I love it.

    • Apope16

      You're an anime chic?

    • Show All

Most Helpful Guys

  • _SOARER_
    Fuck equalizing. I love being a man, and I got the balls to take the lead!
    If you dont have the guts to approach women and take the lead, you probably dont deserve her.
    Is this still revelant?
    • Apope16

      But what if its because you were sexually abused as a child? You do realize there's ptsd and trauma right?

    • _SOARER_

      You overcome it. You dont let the trauma defeat you

    • Wow your not very sensitive like and to be honest I don't think women would actually like you if you came across so confident and so insensitive to others because of the way you act, no offence but I think that is something you need to work on and I say that as someone who needs to work on some things themselves because no one is perfect

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  • Jltakk
    100% agree. I hear about "ending gender norms" and "equality", from women who don't want to initiate.
    Is this still revelant?
    • Those women are likely just spouting platitudes. It's easier to not be rejected after taking a risk with someone. It's nicer to be on that "you approach me pedestal." It would benefit everyone if women and men took the same risks. Means rejection wouldn't be such a big thing. Everyone would get used to it. The positive side is we'd all get used to successes too! These holdovers are slowly changing because they're being discussed and evaluated. Longheld ideas are tough to erode. But they do.

    • Apope16

      @Screenwriter YOu guys make some fantastic points! Women dont ask out because they are too chicken and are just making excuses.

    • Paaaaac, poc poc poc paaaac... (flaps arms, struts around, pecks at dirt)...

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What Girls & Guys Said

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  • coachTanthony
    5 years ago I would of said this is all horse shit and it is the mans job to be the aggressor. That has all changed and women now need to understand that it's dangerous for a man to think this way in 2019.

    Mark my words... soon there will be an "interaction app" so that both parties can sign off on for the intentions of what is going on between the two. Yes that is where it's going and we will all look back at the old school movies and say... wow those men were savages approaching a woman like that... what were they thinking?

    Good take
  • agent_orange
    I have no idea this is how sexually assaulted men/women felt until this day. If that ever happened to me I bet if I have same confidence in dating after the sexual trauma. I've read several stories from sexually abused women but stories of male survivors are less often being discussed maybe due to cultural stigmas that prevents men from speaking out. (Another societal pressure men faced) I admire your courage to speak out though. It's not everyday a man would come out here to share such traumatic experience. You taking the initiative to come out sheds light to others; that every person's story is unique but there are people out there who survives the worst.
    It's obvious that you are dealing with too much inferiority and I can only understand why. I wonder if you have undergone therapy to sort out the consequences of your circumstances though? The way I see it, its only natural to feel pressured since the society conforms with too much musculine custom. One including taking the initiative in almost everything being labeled as the most dominant among two genders. And in your case, that's twice the effort. However, you have to understand that in the dating field, the role of taking the lead is always expected from men. And it's not solely because women are submissive creatures but due to ancient customs of the world that women are always subjected to come in second before men. Women before wasn't given the privilege to develop and include themselves in all aspects of societal issues and concerns. They are strictly limited to domestic jobs and are expected to be compliant to the opposite sex. This custom become inherent to every women until this day. Which partly explains why they seem to expect that men should make the first move.
    However, nowadays, men and women are given equal rights. With gender-equality continuously evolving, women became bolder. Some women now takes more initiative in approaching men, either directly or indirectly, especially those from the liberal countries. But to note, some women. Because not everyone have warmed up to the idea of taking the lead and they're still stuck in their expectations that it's still the men's role. Or maybe they are also nursing a traumatic experience from the past or they're just shy to try for the fear of being rejected. Women are highly sensitive due to their nature. They'd interpret your reaction towards them in many ways than one.
    (i can't go further, it's rather late for me.)
    All I can say is: If men are pressured of taking the lead at everything to pursue a potential mate, women are also suffering the pressures of having no choice in the matter of choosing their mate. 😉
    • Apope16

      It happened to me

    • I can only imagine the extent of damage it cost in your life... I can't fathom how some people can be so cruel to abuse innocent lives for their sick games. I hope the society, alongside campaigns against women violence, will also encourage more awareness on sexual abuse or assault of men and boys. The question is, will the victims be willing to come out to prove that it's actually happening? I know it's harder for men to talk about it in the open.

  • First of all, I highly respect you for exposing a very sensitive issue. Sexual abuse should not happen to anyone including boys. I respect every person who exposes the crimes happening in the society by crushing political correctness.

    However, I don't quite see the connection between the sexual abuse stories and dating.

    Personally, I differ because I believe in the traditional roles where the man takes the lead. I believe men and women are different and should always be different.

    I am also in a relationship and even though I expressed my feelings first but my boyfriend always takes the lead even during the conversations. Even though, he lives abroad but he still manages to take the lead by pampering me. He always messages me first, he will give me compliments first, he will try to make me feel special, I love being chased by my boyfriend, love the attention whereas I am like the shy type.

    I am not saying that girls can't take the lead, I mean if girls want to take the lead they can. It really depends on their mood. But I still believe in traditional roles, I still believe that traditionally it's a man's job to take the lead because most women are still quite shy.
    • InDetail

      That's the scary part about being a dude, you have to dump so much effort into chicks as if you're not worth it unless you do, that is what sucks me out of dating people dont see how inherently vain it is to constantly have to try with the fear of coming off as desperate or clingy, so most dudes literally have to fake everything and stay aloof because you can't trust anyone to not play games or use you

    • Apope16

      I have stories. It happened to me.

    • A mans only value is making a woman happy, after all

  • 2os4ngeles
    You don''t understand human mating. The way human mating works is that women are way pickier than men are with who they sleep with. This is for evolutionary reasons: the cost of sex for women is potentially 9 months out of the mating game + breastfeeding + raising a child. Add to that a higher risk of catching an STD, and the fact that some men are crazy and murder their sex partners. Sex is expensive for women, evolutionarily speaking. A woman produces one egg per month, and isn't gonna be fertile forever. A man produces millions of sperm all the time. And can't get pregnant. And the risk of his partner killing him is really small. Sex is cheap for men.

    On top of that, women slut-shame each other to avoid sex becoming too cheap.

    Look at other animals to understand it: Peacocks compete to impress peahens with beautiful, impractical tails. Male deer grow antlers and fight over the females. Etc. etc. etc.

    If you examine human DNA, only 40% of men who have ever lived passed on their genes. 80% of women did.

    If you run an experiment on college women where an attractive stranger approaches them and invites them back to his place for sex, 0 out of 100 say yes. The number for college men being approached by an attractive college woman is 50 out of 100.

    Women are way pickier than men. Way, way, way pickier. Which is why men compete in all sorts of areas of life, for status, because social status is very attractive to women.

    Women don't hit on you because they don't NEED to hit on you. They can sign up for Tinder and have 100 messages in their inbox in no time. They don't hit on you, because other guys are already hitting on them.

    If you want a chance, you have to make a move. It has nothing to do with society, and everything to do with evolution. It's hardwired over thousands of generations.
    • Apope16

      Uhm. Have you read the news? Plenty of crazy women murdering their sex partners or taking money in divorce.

    • 2os4ngeles

      Yeah that can't compare to the risk women face from a minority of men. Not trying to diminish what men go through, it's just that generally, men are more at physical risk from other men, including romantic rivals, than from women they go on a date with/meet in a dark alley at night.

  • RolandCuthbert
    If we are not the ones to "take the lead", then what is being masculine? What is masculinity?

    What is masculine about sitting in a bar waiting for women to hit on you? What masculine about staying home and taking care of the kids while your wife works? What is masculine about women holding the door open for you?

    I don't understand GaG. I am a man. I am not a woman. Women may be equal to me in terms of worth, but we are not the same. I do not expect for most women to understand men's issues, as I do not understand women's issues nor do I want to.

    GaG is a weird place. In many ways, it is homophobic. But the very men who are homophobic are the ones who have the hardest time with the traditional traits and behaviors associated with being a man. What gives? I understand, we have real issues confronting men. But for some reason, it is fashionable to not talk about those issues. It is a kind of super weird hypocrisy.

    What Are Masculine Traits? ↗
  • MzAsh
    Sexual abuse is never the victim’s fault. However, it is the responsibility of that victim to seek therapy and other forms of healing and that acceptance of responsibility and the effort they put into healing from that abuse is extremely important. Without it, a healthy relationship will be very unlikely and the victim is a risk for displaying and even perpetrating abusive behavior of their own.

    A man with such an experience will likely need a dominant woman. It’s just interesting to me because a lot of men on GAG protest against dominant women, yet here we are, realizing that’s exactly what a lot of them seem to need.
    • Dominant woman and strong minded w ok men are two different things guys need girls who k ow what they want guys dont need to be forced or told to do anything

    • MzAsh

      Dominant women don’t force or tell men what to do - that’s domineering, not dominant. Dominant women take the lead in courtship and management of the relationship.

    • Apope16

      Goid point MzAsh

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  • I agree with the opening comment.

    there is no real intellectual or moral reason for men to be expected to "take a lead" with a woman. In this case, (western) women are actually sexist (and otherwise ridiculous) towards men. And the comical thing is the western women are actually hurting THEMSELVES by thinking this way, because they lose so many good opportunities to date decent men because of it, and end up falling for jerks and criminals because of thinking that a guy "taking the lead" is somehow good for a relationship.

    A relationship should be 50/50, not 80/20, but what Western Women expect from men is 80/20. They expect him to make all the money, give it all to her, and be some kind of mind reader, and of course make all the first moves. They place all the intellectual, financial, and moral responsibility on the man, and so they deserve it when their relationships don't work out. They are being immature idiots actually.

    "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

    If you want the guy to "take the lead" then you are NOT obeying the Golden Rule. If you want to obey the Golden Rule, your relationship should be 50/50 in every respect.

    no more immature games on who should call who or when. If you want to talk, call the person, and quit being a moron. If they prejudge you because you "called them too early and appear desperate," then you DON'T need that person anyway. Grow up, and find someone else who will grow up.

    Perhaps even more important than this issue is the problem of Western Women expecting the man to make twice as much income as themselves, because they are greedy. In this situation, if people did the moral and just thing, the world would be a happier place. Rich men should date poor women, and rich women should date poor men, if people were actually moral enough to think like this, the poverty level would be cut roughly in half without any further laws or efforts by governments.

    "Love your Neighbor as yourself..."

    Neat huh, if people obeyed Old Testament love laws, STDs, broken relationships, and poverty would disappear in one generation, without any additional legal framework being needed.
    • "there is no real intellectual or moral reason for men to be expected to "take a lead" with a woman."

      Yeah, there is. Basic biological facts showcase this clearly.

  • ecfresh
    A few things:

    It sucks that in life young people and especially children have to suffer abuse. Of course that’s never fair and you are correct it can have long term traumatic effects on their lives and how they relate to others.

    Yes from a purely equity standpoint the pressure for men to initiate action and risk asking out a stranger or risk going for the first kiss can have penalties. With #metoo those penalties are rising and I understand how anxiety and fear can leave many men in a place of deciding to not risk it.

    But as already noted by others it’s purely biological. Men have more testosterone than women and it’s human nature that men take the lead. This chemical fuels aggression and it matches the estrogen found in women. They respond to leadership and that estrogen allows them to feel safe in the presence of a strong man.

    Life isn’t set up to be far as you noted. Meeting someone new and taking the risk as a man in initiating always carries some element of risk, I don’t care who you are or how confident you are. But the next time you have the opportunity ask yourself this question “Am I a good person?”. If the answer is yes, then take that chance. This is an opportunity to be a good guy and proceed on your terms. It’s not reliving trauma because you are in control, you are setting the expectations and you can communicate and take it as slow as needed. It can in fact be therapeutic each time you try to approach someone or each time you try to initiate a kiss. I’m not saying it’s easy because it’s never easy. I’m just saying you gotta try.

    #yolo. Yes I agree with you and I had times when women initiated and it felt good. I believe once you begin dating it should be a give and take and that women should be encouraged to initiate more often. But you live once and the way the world works is men gotta step up and be men in the beginning. Love overcomes fairness every time.
  • devilman666
    Hahahahahah- wait, you're being serious? Sorry man, most women refuse to initiate, they see that as your job, in other words, most women are sexist.
  • MattNotMike
    You want the best of everything? Lead.

    I feel bad for you and empathize with you, but I'm encouraging you to heal as quickly as you can. In a relationship where the woman leads you will NOT be happy at all.

    and I can empathize with you, I have been sexually assaulted twice. Once via unwarranted nude, and the other time with a girl I didn't like starting to kiss my body for no reason at all one day.
    • Apope16

      I lead now. But in the past i had panic attacks and migraines doing so. If society wasn't so sexist against men i wouldn't have suffered like that.

    • Yup. . . So true, brother.

  • Gods_Gift
    I wasn't abused but I have always preferred women to take the lead in making a relationship happen. All the relationships I've had started like that. And I've had long miserable gaps between them when I wanted women and couldn't get them because none of them took the lead. There were even plenty of women who showed interest but it didn't happen because neither I nor they made the crucial move.

    I don't associate this tendency with abuse survival myself. I am autistic and this is another reason why a heterosexual man can have difficulty approaching women. We have executive dysfunction, making it hard to initiate new things, and impaired empathy, meaning we find it difficult to model other people's minds and predict how they're going to feel about things. This can in turn create anxiety, which builds up over the years, especially with disastrous experiences, leading to considerable pain and inhibition in romantic matters.

    I don't personally think there's much point expecting women to change their behaviour just because some men have difficulty initiating. Ultimately women have their preferences as well, which is mostly to let men do the overt initiating (even if often brought on by the woman's more indirect flirting or hunting). What I'd like to see is society acknowledge that there are some men who need a woman to lead, and some women who like to lead. That these are natural and enduring tendencies in people, albeit minorities. People should accept these types just like other sexualities. A woman may be frustrated at a man not taking the lead, but she shouldn't look down on him for it or be prejudiced about it, any more than if he was gay.

    I know people insist that the majority 'romantic protocol' roles are natural and hard-wired, but I do wonder how much this is true. I'm sure I've heard of cultures where women choose their partners and initiate the courtship process, rather than men. I also find it quite inconsistent that a certain number of women - and some men it seems - generally claim that all sorts of gender-related things are socially constructed, yet still insist that romantic protocol is inherent and asymmetric. This seems like a classic case of trying to have your cake and eat it. I would have more respect for those claiming all gender roles are up for grabs for both sexes if they were not hypocritical in this one area.
    • Gods_Gift

      LOL, "flirting or hinting", not hunting. 😀

  • hahahmm
    Oh brother. If you’re traumatized by taking the lead then you should be traumatized by not taking the lead & still being the object of someone else’s sexual interests.

    I think you’re trying to make sense of the fact that you have an extreme shyness. People who were never abused can have that
  • NoEstrogen
    Technically, I too was a victim of sexual abuse but I didn't see it that way then and I still don't.
    I'll spare you the details of how a long haired skinny 13yo boy got hooked up with Mike, a 38yo carpet salesmen who grew pot and sold acid.
    Mike would proposition women shopping for carpet and elsewhere and setup dates and take me to hotels to have sex with these middle aged women. At first just a couple times a month and later more often. Sometimes he'd stick around and get things going, sometimes he'd take off right away. First time was awkward, I didn't know what the plan was, but the lady was really nice and I had a great time. She was very instructive, and subsequent women were just as willing to share. These experiences were some of the most valuable of my young life and I continue to benefit from them today. We did this for several years, during that time I learned not only about the biology of sex, but more importantly the anatomy of true intimacy.
    I tell you this because these relationships especially in the beginning were inherently unequal.
    When this began I was 13 and a late bloomer, most of the women were in their 30s and 40s. I was so naive that on that first night Jackie a mid 40s hippy mother type had to show me how to masturbate.
    These experiences made me a very self assured and well adjusted young man when dealing with girls my own age. I knew more about them than they knew about themselves, both physically and emotionally. When with girls my own age I didn't suffer the panicked fumbling that sometimes led to accidents, or wondering in silence whether I was doing it right.
    I know I was one of many in my generation to have had unequal relationships, but I believe there are many like me who like me feel they were enhanced by these experiences in a way that can't be duplicated by sex ed.
    There's the issue of Mike who did supply LSD to a child and use him for monetary gain. But he was always really good about letting me have the final say. He never pushed me into anything after that first time and even then I wasn't as much pushed as offered an opportunity at the last minute.
    Then there is the issue of the women. Most were upper middle class housewives, some were secret drug users, some had fetishes, some wanted to be the teacher, some just wanted to talk in an intimate setting, nearly all were good to me.
  • TonyBologna25
    Most men like to take the lead. Men and women are very different to one another on a biological level hence we why fit different societal standards and roles. Men and women who deviate from their biological role in society are frowned upon due to evolutionary biology. This is why most women aren’t attracted to feminine men and most men aren’t attracted to masculine women. This isn’t just pseudo science: Men on average produce 7x more testosterone than women and our endocrine system plays a massive role in your personality. Harvard studies and neurologist confirm that men and women have a lot of differences in how our brains work. There’s so much and it’s kind of ridiculous to say we’re equal. Yes, we should have equal treatment, but we are not the same and it’s toxic to suggest we are.

    I’m honestly sick of this sissy shit where progressive media are convincing young men to act like women: It’s toxic and repulsive to most women. If that’s your thing, then sure. But your mindset makes you inferior in regards to attraction towards a mass populous and you aren’t unique and special because you admit it.

    I love being a man and taking the lead. I love looking out for the best interest of me and my woman. I love how she supports me in this. But you can do you my man.
  • Lord_Ateag
    1 out of 5 will be sexually abused? Where'd you get that statistic, a feminist complaining about the same fake figures on college campuses?

    While it WOULD be nice for a woman to make a first move from time to time, the two genders are fundamentally different in their instincts. Men have had to compete with each other to be seen as a more worthy mate all throughout human history, as goes for most species of animals. That doesn't mean, however, that you need to be physically stronger. You just need to be more efficient in your methods. I can't do 10 fucking pullups. I used to, for the record, but not now. I find a way around having to be a brute. I use a different solution, but what the woman notices is that I HAVE a solution, a practical method to achieve my desired results. That is through humor and quick wit. Tinder was a rather decent fellow for me, because right off the bat, I'd go for laughs, somerimes immediately setting me above the retards who open with "hey beautiful".

    You need to find your own method, and playing the victim of some elaborate, malevolent, system-driven battery masked as sexual abuse isn't the way to go. No one likes it when you use something like the expectations for men as a symbol of sexual abuse. Women are designed to be difficult to convince to fuck. That's why they play dumbass head games ALL. THE DAMNED. TIME. You're not alone in this boat, dude. Just the way nature has run its course. Good luck!
  • Tyladron
    I myself am still quite young and I do not have too much of an opinion on this (especially since I don't date and struggle to even make friends), but I feel that no one should be stereotyped or pushed to do things or act certain ways in any situation. I personally have been stereotyped in other ways and it often just leads to crappy situations.
  • DorkVader
    This is a very important issue and I love your bravery in bringing it up! In this, I think men do their own dirty work in silencing other men about issues like sexual abuse and rape. We are all worse for it. As men hold more power in this societal structure, victims are often subjected to that masculine mindset, and more often male victims don't come forward or speak on it. Kudos to you! You are growing past those feelings of powerlessness by acknowledging it.
  • anonla123
    Your statistical analysis is flawed. Think about your final answer of 28 million. Your reasoning is incorrect. Sorry, but you should not have started your thesis with statistics.
    • Apope16

      Inaccurate data has nothing to do with my reasoning. The data accurate or not changes nothing about the reasoning of the piece.

  • jsheh
    I feel as yes in the beginning men try to take the lead just from the fact of him trying to find the one they want. But at a certain point they realize that they have to do what the woman wants because they have to keep her happy. So its really a game of balance and both parties have to understand that
  • Prof_Don
    How is a woman supposed to feel protected, feel secure, and feel sexually turned on, man that is afraid of TALKING to a woman?

    How can he be trusted to be mentally strong enough to lead and provide for his family... if he can’t talk to another female person and show his interest?

    In the grand scheme of life that is a VERY low danger level of an action to do (talk to a woman and lead the courtship).

    This IS the ultimate shit test: u gotta pass!

  • BigZeet
    I agree that the onus shouldn't be solely on the men as there are a lot of us who are just super reserved. I think regardless of whether you're a guy or girl, if you want something you should just go get it, you don't need to wait around for other people to do something for you. Ideally that's what I'd want in a relationship, that we can just do things without being expected to because of our sex.
  • xyz94
    And some of the same men who complain that that is unfair will also be the men who want women to be 'submissive', who expect women to do as they say, and who think women's sole purpose is to have children.
  • Hannajenky
    Men think about sex way more than women. As long as this is true it will always be mens job to make the first move in pursuing sexual and or romantic relationships. If you don’t like it I guess the world and life are not always fair
    • Jamie05rhs

      But don't women want romance more than men? Is so, why don't they put forth an effort to get what they're looking for? Instead of just waiting for horny guys to hit on them and hoping one of them turns out to be decent.

    • Hannajenky

      @Jamie05rhs I don't know life isn’t fair I guess

    • Jamie05rhs

      True, true

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  • vivmatt
    When I was growing up, I watched Disney and anime and rarely were women represented as initiators of anything even when they were the main character. Men were advertised as saviours. You ever see those commercials for men's body soap: filled with stereotypes. Also, the film/ad industry is still MALE-DOMINATED. Maybe your message shouldn't be to women who also grew up with stereotypes on how they should act. Maybe your message should be to the film /ad industry that perpetuates these messages to young people
    • nathanp97

      Are you one of those alt right who thinks video games cause mass shootings, because that is basically the same argument?

    • Yeah, Disney needs to get on the bandwagon and have some princesses rescue some princes... Not women dressed up as men, but strong women. And it's not because the men are weak.. but because they've been bewitched or something..

    • nathanp97

      They have. moana is an example, shrrck even had a strong female lead. Tangled I think even had that.

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  • Cherokeehp
    I do wish that more women would start “taking the lead” in the dating scene, but I’m not really sure what statistics about male victims of sexual abuse have to do with that.
  • genericname85
    yes and what's even more unfair is that society forces men to take the lead but then frowns at actually taking the lead as advancing behavior is framed as sexual harrasment. however i would say that's just the conflicting shit that the media tells us. reality is different.
  • UncleTouchyFingers
    Men can always just ignore it. That is what I do. Culture is created by the people, if men want it to change you have to actually change it. If all men stopped chasing and being desperate things would likely change. I do not blame society, I blame men that blindly follow its patterns.
  • broncobryan
    So is this part of the feminization of men? My world of advise to men, quit being pussies, and man up, take control, go up and ask that girl out, grow a beard, drink beer, and curse a lot. Oh and shoot guns, lots and lots of guns. You kids get off my lawn ya here.
  • Randomawkwardness
    I mean yes but it works both ways. While some men find it attractive for women to be confident and make the first move, it can also be a huge turn off for them.
  • Can_I_Get_a_Do-Over
    There are male and female leaders in romantic dating across all ages. “Leading” can be done in different ways, so that should be specified first.

    Women can initiate by showing a man she’s interested in him. I see it all the time at Meetup events where women 30+ flirt with the guys and rub their arms or backs or make a sexy comment. This is leading. She has paved the way for him and eliminated the fear of rejection.

    Actually asking for a date still predominately falls to the man, tho, but what’s so tough about that after she’s given you the green light?
    (Sorry to hear you were victimized. Evil exists.)
  • pratham2764
    I have completely agreed by ur above cited word.. but its not a wholesome of story.. Every book has two pages , flip the page and you will able to see another side of story.. every charecter in the stort has it own share like you do..
  • bamesjond0069
    No this is dumb. You should work ok fixing yourself and not expecting society to conform to your problems. You really think you are that special? Nope. You are not. You are just another schmuck walking down the street who thinks the world revolves around him.
  • nerms123
    Wow I actually never thought about this. That’s really interesting.
  • Amy_Theo
    There is nothing fair when it comes to societal pressure in itself. Irrespective of who it's targeted towards, it's never fair.
    These pressures are predominantly because of stereotypes. It starts with "men should be dominant and be the initiator", "women should be subtle and a follower" and "another gender? That's against nature". Then it moves on to "you let your wife plan your date? Is she the one wearing the pants in your relationship?" and "Stop being so opinionated! You'll scare the men away!" and "You're a trans? Unless you're a transformer, I don't want you near my child, you freak!".

    But yes, I understand your point. The whole dating scene should be an equal field. But the fact is, it IS. It's just a lot of us choose to conveniently ignore that fact and throw the responsibility of pushing the relationship forward onto the other. I guess I'm one of those people. I barely ever take the lead but I suppose the fact that I'm not always sure of myself has something to do with that
  • Gedaria
    Men have been talking the lead for centuries. The abuse argument has been there a long time. But females have been abused a lot more, being treated like second rate human beings. So someone has to tat the first move. So why men...
  • I don't know what to say. I need some time to think and re read this.

    It's got me thinking
  • Tonga
    im sorry about the situation that happened to you, and i want to let you know that I've been there too so if you would like to talk to someone about that im here.

    With that being said. you can't expect women to approach you because you have been abused or because men have been abused. We have been abused too and also we don't know who is a victim, who isn't, who is a predator, or who is a combination. AND neither do you. in the dating world people are afraid to approach anyone. Girls dont put themselves out there because they are scared/ect and neither do you guys. But most of the time when a girl does like you, she will initiate some conversations. you will probably know or at least get close to her. If she's not there could be various reasons why not just "tradition"
  • hvydna2018
    Women aren't worth the squeeze in the United States anyways.
  • Hal2002
    What a load of crap, grow some hair on your balls step up to the plate and be a fucking MAN.
  • LaVillaStrangiato
    Hey, if you're giving him signs, that's just as good as taking the lead.
    If he decides to ignore the signs, then that's all on him.
  • WhistleForTheChoir
    What bothers me is that women expect us to take the lead, but then want to make six hundred rules for how to do it. I think our entire dating culture is ridiculous, and it DOES contribute to rape, but women won't solve a problem if it takes any soul-searching or input on their part. Feminism doesn't have a lot of central tenets, but an unspoken one seems to be, if it can't be blamed on a penis, then it isn't a real problem. Really, women want to take the lead, they just don't want the responsibilities and accountabilities that come with leading.
  • confusedrepeatedly
    It's TRUE that many many men have been abused and its unfair to expect them to always be the initiators but keep in mind that many more women are abused I believe its 1 in 3 so equal playing field is definitely important but here's why men are expected to take the lead even though I disagree w it
    Personally I wish the girl would take the lead I would never want her to feel in any way taken advantage of
    Plus guys are scared they are misinterpreting signs if the girl kisses the guy it's pretty clear to the guy the girl wants to be more than just friends
  • coolhandroo
    I had my fucked up shit when I was a kid and I can definitely relate to sexual encounters being anxiety ridden and unpleasant but I think the traditional roles can stay where they are I've found that its just that much better when you find a chick who gets you and is more fun than stressful to hook up with. And more than sex being stressful I would say that "intimacy" (fuck i hate even writing that word) is what's really uncomfortable and when a chick is pushy or tries to have that with me I am over it man and the more pushy she is (masculine) the less likely I am to open up and the more certain I am to never call her again.
  • Pejtu
    If The only person that is trying to make relationship last is the guy
    Thats just wrong leave her
  • Darknut
    I mean society wants us to take the lead. Um well the me too movement stops most men in their tracks. can't have it both ways
  • Slim57
    Life is unfair sadly. As much as I agree with this most women will never take the lead
  • grega239
    It's not unfair to men, it's normal. It's been that way since the cave days.
  • Daniel3035
    I can't like how do I do that? And every time I see a decent girl she has a boyfriend.
  • OddBeMe
    Technically yes, but being a decent human being isn’t hard.
  • kim45456
    Good take.
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