Girls In Your 20s: Now Is The Time To Make Things Happen

MrOracle

This article is bound to be seen by some women as women-bashing or “older-woman-hating” but it’s neither of those things. It’s my attempt to let women in their 20s know something that many aren’t being taught, and that many of their peers don’t know either - and so many don’t begin to take action until it’s too late. And that is: if you’re a woman, your 20s aren’t just for partying and having fun and being wild - it’s the time when you set up the entire rest of your life with a long-term relationship and children (if those things matter to you). Men, and older women - there’s good info for you here too. I’ll also add the caveat that while much of this is true everywhere, I’m focusing on western culture in particular, and that I’m going to follow this up with a male-focused article as well.

Social Value can be thought of similarly to financial value.
Social Value can be thought of similarly to financial value.

Let’s start with some background. We’re going to talk about Social Market Value (SMV) and basic biology, which are very closely linked. SMV is how the average person of the opposite sex values you as a potential relationship partner, which is ALSO an indicator of how much leverage and privilege you have with the opposite sex. SMV is not just about physical attractiveness, though that’s obviously a component, but it’s also about all of the other things you bring (or fail to bring) to the table as a potential relationship partner. As a man, I don’t get to decide which factors I’m judged on - only women can decide what they find important in men, and how they value those things. Likewise, women don’t get to decide which factors they are judged on - only men can decide that.

Biology plays a large role in this, as does age. Why is biology important? Because the majority of our romantic and sexual and relationship desires are heavily based on biology - on what helps us survive and what helps us reproduce. Whether you realize it or not, biology plays a huge part in who you find attractive and why, and in who finds you attractive and why. Why is age important? Because your age is closely linked (on average) to your biology and the value you bring to the table.

Average Male and Female Social Market Value by Age
Average Male and Female Social Market Value by Age

This is a graph of the average SMV of men and women based on age. As an average, this obviously means that certain individuals may be higher or lower, but the vast majority will be about average. You’ll notice that from the time women hit puberty, their SMV soars, far higher than men’s SMV will ever achieve anytime in his life. Adult men of all ages are most attracted to women in this age range, and the reason is obvious - and biological: these are women’s prime baby-making years. For men who want a family - which is most men - it obviously makes the most sense to prefer women who are near the beginning of the period of their life when they are the most fertile and most likely to bear healthy children. Women’s fertility peaks at 28, and after 35, things start getting far more difficult and much more likely to result in children with health and developmental issues.


Let’s talk about men for a second: men hit puberty, but their value is bottom-basement, and this largely continues through their 20s. Why? Again, biology. While women’s biological role is to bear and raise children, men’s is to provide and protect, and to do that, men need resources and status - and few men in their 20s, much less their teens, have much of either. Most men need until at least age 30 or so before they have a home, a car, and an income that can pay for those things plus have some extra left over. This is why men in their 20s are often not trying too hard to “settle down” - they know they don’t have the resources to pull it off yet.

Womens viable egg supply by age - a good measure of fertility
Women's viable egg supply by age - a good measure of fertility


And this chart reflect this reality: at around age 28, where women’s fertility peaks and starts to fall, her SMV begins to decline, with that decline accelerating rapidly into her early 30s, while at the same time, men are finally getting things together and are able to offer a package that women care about - and the SMV lines cross. After this point, for the average woman, who so far in her life has enjoyed an SMV FAR higher than most men could ever achieve, suddenly finds herself not just equal with men, but BELOW the average man.

For a lot of women - THIS DOES NOT COMPUTE. Just a year or two ago, she had endless offers from men, would never have to buy her own drink or wait to be served, had men eager to take her places and buy her things, etc. Now, seemingly overnight, all of that is gone. Impossible! But, she thinks to herself, I’d better hurry up and pick a man and settle down into a comfortable future. Unfortunately, these women are used to enjoying a high SMV, where they attracted tons of men, and could afford to be extremely picky, and who could blame them? Now, though, "there are no more good men around." She can’t seem to find any men who can meet her “requirement list” who are interested. For many women, they’re sure they know what the problem is: men simply aren’t willing to “step up” and date her and marry her and take care of her in the manner in which she rightfully deserves. Many women are far more realistic about this, for sure, but a whole lot can’t seem to grasp what has happened, and they give ZERO thought to what THEY bring to the table, or what MEN value, and in their mind, they’re practically a 10, no matter what their baggage or attitude or position.

Here are a couple of admittedly more extreme examples of this. I’m providing these exaggerated examples just to make the point.

After watching these videos, is it not obvious that these women still act and behave as if they were still in their 20s, with all the time in the world, and ENDLESS amounts of SMV leverage to make demands of the “marketplace” of men, when in reality, what THEY bring to the table is hardly what the men they are after are looking for. These same women, just a few years earlier, could have found men at least close to what they were looking for, because they were younger, had far less baggage, and thus had much higher SMV to offer - but now, in their mid-30s, their SMV has plummeted, their baggage has piled up, and they’re still expecting “millionaire lifestyle” on a McDonald’s budget.

The point of this article isn’t to make fun of these women, it’s to give younger women a glimpse of what it’s like when you fall from the massive heights of SMV that you currently enjoy in your 20s, and to encourage you to take relationships seriously in your 20s - especially starting at 24/25, and even more so if you want children, because even if you meet your future husband at 25, chances are that by the time you date, get engaged, get married, and have your first kid, you will be around 30, because those things take time. If you wait until you’re 29 1/2 to start looking, not only has your SMV fallen a lot, but by the time you are married at, say, 33, you potentially only have a couple of years for children, and you’ll be under tremendous pressure to hurry and have them, and any random hiccups (like, say, a pandemic) will put your plans at risk.

For women in their 30s and older who are looking for a serious relationship, my advice is the same as what I give guys in their teens and 20s: you need to learn what the opposite sex values - how they calculate SMV - and offer as much of that as you can, but you must also be realistic about the things you can no longer change. If you have kids from another man, if you have a bunch of debt, if you value your pets more than a man, if you are 50 or 100 pounds overweight, etc., then you aren’t going to have a high SMV, and so you aren’t in a position to demand a high SMV from men either - at least, until you improve what you have to offer.


I’m interested in everyone’s feedback, and will have the male version in the next couple of days.

Girls In Your 20s: Now Is The Time To Make Things Happen
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Most Helpful Girls

  • miramiraonthewall
    Young girls, please take this with a huge grain of salt.

    I definitely won't say that none of this is true. It's definitely true that being young is a huge benefit in attracting men of all ages and that fertility is higher and giving birth easier, safer. I'd say that's where it ends though, as far as benefits go.

    I just turned 30 not too long ago, and have many friends in their 30s and up. People are still dating, finding love, living their lives. I'd actually say there's a huge disadvantage to marrying young, in terms of happiness and being in a healthy partnership. A lot of my friends were in trash relationships when we were very young. That's because young adults tend to be at the very beginning of self-awareness and understanding what being in a healthy partnership looks like and young women are still learning what they should and shouldn't accept, unfortunately. Even when you don't have the worst partnership at first, you can still end up miserable. I've seen that happen a lot. You don't have to listen to me though - look at divorce rates. Younger couples are more likely to get divorced. This can lead to a period in your late 20s/early 30s where you are extremely hurt and bitter. I suppose you could argue that if you're going to back on the market, better then than later in life, but just be realistic and educated. Getting married young does not mean you'll still be married even 5 years later, and it definitely does not mean you will have a happy or fulfilling partnership. Focusing on biology or propaganda on "Sexual market value" should not trump actual education about what's happening in society.

    Your focus should be on what you want to do and talking to as many people who have lived those experiences as possible. If you want a career, to travel a lot, focus on your personal development and being your own source of happiness - learn as much as you can about that path. If you really want to get married young and have children, definitely research and learn that as well. I'd encourage you to look up studies, research on marriage outcomes and happiness for women who marry young. Learn what being a single mother could look like, if you get divorced young without a real career or higher salary to sustain yourself. Talk to as many women you can who married young (especially within the last 10-15 years). Try to truly know what being a mother looks like before you jump into it at age 21. Consider what opportunities you are sacrificing, but then also know that you have more options than ever to do both career and build a family. It is just harder.

    And most important to me - please educate yourselves on things like emotional abuse, healthy partnerships, etc. Learn what you should and shouldn't accept from men from a partnership, what it looks like when weak, insecure men try to undermine you to lower your self esteem. If you're going to get married young, please focus on this and growing as a woman yourselves. Get a therapist as well. Keep your eyes open and do not bend your live to "what men want." Yes, it's important to understand the other sex (if you're straight) but do not define yourself by that and understand that men are varied and they are not all the same. I've seen women get married being everything the guy wants and the minute she switches up, the relationship falls apart. A friend of mine has a 2 year old and her husband filed for divorce and had an affair after she "stopped serving him dinner" and wasn't as nice during postpartum depression after childbirth. She did everything "right" and is now a single mother on a modest salary and won't be able to keep the house they just bought. in my opinion, it's not worth it. If you choose to try to live that way anyway, good luck and godspeed. I can only flag the warnings, the path is yours to choose.

    I suggest life in big cities if you want to find love older. Being a single woman in my 30s in NYC is not even anything to bat an eyelash at really. I understand that it's different in more suburban or rural areas. You should also know that women are marrying older across the developed world for a variety of reasons. It's not nearly as bad as some of these men want you to believe.

    Talk to older women, not just the men. They aren't older women. I'm pretty happy and so are most of my single friends, whether they want a husband or not. We understand ourselves and relationships way more than we did when we were younger. We are all way more confident in both our abilities and our looks than we were when we were young. Generally a lot more mature. I have amazing close friendships and a better understanding of my parents. Life is kind of just better overall, except bills and responsibilities, but even those have positives because of ambitious goals and more money for building our futures, traveling, enjoying life. But if you really really really want the hubby and kids and it's more a priority than anything else, then age is something to consider, especially if you want a large family. Good luck spring chickies, wish you all happiness and love - both for yourselves and for others!

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/dec/19/-sp-why-do-so-many-young-marriages-come-to-an-early-end

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8331027/Couples-who-marry-young-are-most-likely-to-divorce.html

    https://ifstudies.org/blog/want-to-avoid-divorce-wait-to-get-married-but-not-too-long/

    https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/03/getting-married-later-is-great-for-college-educated-women/274040/

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/04/education-and-marriage/
    Is this still revelant?
    • MrOracle

      Note that I'm not suggesting you marry at 21 - but if you are looking for a husband and kids, getting married around 26-27 is probably a good idea, and THAT means you need to be actively seeking partners at 23-25.

    • People should do what they feel is best for their lives. There's no one formula that makes sense for everyone and life doesn't work in a perfect formula. They should research, yes, and think about what they want, yes. Any human with actual life experience knows that you can be dating at 23 and still be single at 26. That's only 3 years, 4 years at best if you include 27 as a final destination for marriage. This only works if you strike gold and don't end up realizing they aren't the right person for you within a short period of time. Younger people are especially bad at that. So even in the best case scenario you've posed, you're not accounting for sociology, economics, emotional maturity, etc.

      I support decisions and opinions based on credible research and sound logic. Without that, a lot of mistakes can be made and harm can be done. Putting pressure on relationships like this can lead to a lot of people making very bad decisions or staying in bad relationships just to get married. Sure, if they want to start dating seriously at a young age, that can be a good thing if that matches their goals for life. However, the expectation that the average 23 year old is going to find the person they *should* marry within 3 to 4 years, or will even understand what a healthy relationship looks like at that age, is very optimistic in my opinion. However, if they start doing the things I have suggested at a young age, maybe they'll be better off than the alternative.

    • MrOracle

      There are never guarantees of ANYTHING in life, and part of the reason for LOOKING when you're younger because not everything DOES go as planned, so you might make a poor decision picking a guy and you might need time to recover and make a second choice. The problem is that a ton of girls don't even START thinking about this stuff until their 30s - and there's no guarantee that waiting until your 30s is going to allow you to make a better choice, ESPECIALLY when the pool of interested candidates is so much smaller.

      Look, biology and age is a bitch, and not just for women. But would you recommend an athlete wait until the are 30 or 35 to try to get into the pros? A dancer? An actor/actress? A musician? A model? Of course not. Most would have no shot at all if they did (with a FEW *rare* exceptions), and many retire at those ages.

      There are certain things in life that, if you want them, you need to do it when you are younger. For women who want to have a family of their own - which not every woman does - their mid-to-late 20s is when they are most likely to get the best men and have the most to choose from. It's really that simple.

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  • MzAsh
    This should be taken with a grain of salt. I’m 35 and married in my mid 20s but I didn’t “settle down” in the way society expects an old married woman to. It has always been important to me that I remain an unchained, free woman regardless of my marital status. I am loyal to my husband but I do as I please. If I want to party, I’ll party. If I want to take a 2 week vacation alone or with the girls to Hawaii, I’ll do that. If I wanted to get rid of husband and replace him with a 22 year old hottie, I know I could (I’ve had offers) but I’m not going to do that because my husband is pretty awesome.

    I’ve never let anyone define my worth by my age. I’ve won beauty pageants and modeling contracts when people said I was “too old” to do so.

    You know, we all age and our looks fade. Men don’t always age like wine either.

    And yes, fertility diminishes with age but this is also used as a scare tactic. I’m 35 and still on birth control because I’m still very fertile. You know abortion and unplanned pregnancy for women in their 30s and 40s is in the rise due to the assumption that as soon as a woman hits 30, she’s dried up and infertile which isn’t true. A woman should only consult with her doctor about these matters.
    Is this still revelant?
    • If what you say is true, your husband is a complete simp. I cannot believe he would tolerate you going on a two-week "girl power" vacation without him. Certainly no woman would tolerate a man going on a "guys only" vacation to Vegas. Your saying "I do what I want", tells me you are NOT committed to your marriage.

      Why did you get married? You don't sound like got the cock carousel out of your system.

    • MzAsh

      Haven’t gone to Hawaii yet but I have gone on vacations back home by myself. We trust each other. I wouldn’t be with someone who didn’t.

    • MrOracle

      No one is saying you have to "settle down" - but you found your husband in your 20s and I bet you got a great guy. And, yeah, you could divorce and get a 22-year-old hottie... but he'd likely have no resources and status and you'd have to carry most of the load for a while. You'd also be dealing with someone who was very emotionally and socially immature compared to you, which gets old. That's why most women don't date such younger men.

      You essentially followed the advice, and have a successful relationship you're happy with. I suspect if you had to try to find the same quality of relationship today, you'd find it a lot harder - but that's not something you have too worry about! :)

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Most Helpful Guys

  • loveslongnails
    Forget my confusion as to "why" you chose to do this so clinically, and I'll get right to the video. In the video, there are some things worth noting, however I don't particularly care for the narrative or the "some" of the underlying assumptions. Some are correct in my view, others not.

    A 50+ itemized expectation list is the same as a death certificate to guy, and it should be vice-versa as well. Simplistic as it sounds, the 3 item "guy checklist" in the video, 1) Attractive 2) not a bitch 3) will make a good housewife, ... isn't that far off. Each guy would tweak it a bit.

    I'd add a few things like she has to be "smart", she has to have some passion in her life (not just sexual but that's VERY important too, not just to me, but for a vast majority of guys), and she has to like being active at least as much as she likes staying home. A lot of things fall under " she can't be a bitch", which to me says she's kind, has a good heart, is thoughtful of others but isn't anyone's fool, and she's not quick to anger or fly off emotionally. You give that to most guys and they'd think "I've found the perfect woman".

    The narrator focuses a lot on weight, which falls under his #1 - she has to be attractive. Those girls are too big for him, weight wise, and they don't work for me either. But... there are still plenty of men out there who would be FINE with their size IF their "personalities" weren't for shit !! Both of the girls, and the girl in the audience, are annoying as fuck and think waaaayyyyy too highly of themselves. That's the biggest no-no right there. If they had all those other qualities I described above and the three basics from the video, they'd have a line out the door. So their weight alone, is not the issue, but it's certainly a symptom.

    Sometimes people set up expectations that CAN'T be met because they don't really want them to be met, but they want to say "see, I tried, I looked, I'm open and I made the effort". But they don't really want to succeed. All of these women/men forget to add one VERY essential item to their list of requirements:
    " He/she has to LIKE ME ! Just as I am ! " -------- Hmmm. And they wonder why they don't get dates.
    Is this still revelant?
    • MrOracle

      "The narrator focuses a lot on weight, which falls under his #1 - she has to be attractive. Those girls are too big for him, weight wise, and they don't work for me either. But... there are still plenty of men out there who would be FINE with their size IF their "personalities" weren't for shit !!"

      I completely agree with you here. While those women may not have "Victoria's Secret Angels" bodies, plenty of men would find them physically attractive, and as you said, their physical looks are NOT their major problem. It's everything else...

    • So you are 34 and already passed your 20s. It is late for you by the logic of the post

    • So you are saying men in their 20s and women in their late 30s are worthless? So should 30 years old women date men in their early 20s?

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  • Hispanic-Cool-Guy
    Ok, I see your points and you make some good points, but here is the thing, life doesn't go as we like or plan the immense majority of the time; and if it did why aren't you married with kids, nice strong muscular body and have about 5 million dollars in the bank by your age?

    You really think a young beautiful woman will actually desire to pick you over a young, full of energy handsome 25 year old college graduate?

    We have to keep in mind, life simply just don't work that way or the way we desire it to go.

    Moreover, some woman are destined to find their man and fall in love and get married in their 30's instead of 20's and just have 1 kid and there's nothing wrong with that.

    I will say this though to all the young women of GAG, to put much enjoyment in life in your 20's with friends, your boyfriend or husband, because those will be the best years of your life when you're young, pretty and full of energy.

    Don't use drugs or be a drug addict or a drunk; work, study, party and have lots fun, but don't whore around because living a lifestyle of such robs you of lasting joy, ages you quicker and just brings shame and regret later on in your life.

    Lastly, let's be honest Mr. Oracle men desire women in their 20's not because of wanting kids but because they physically look their best for sex and pleasure.
    Is this still revelant?
    • MrOracle

      Why do you imagine any of this is about ME? This has nothing to do with me at all. LOL.

    • It wasn't my intention to make seem it was about you, but rather to point out things just don't work out just because we plan and want it to.

    • DianaWest

      @Hispanic-Cool-Guy now here's a high quality man. not like the little boys above talking about women having "no value" past 30. what kind of women do they expect to attract with that mentality i don't know. thanks for your great comment!

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What Girls & Guys Said

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  • sejla
    I’m thinking a lot of 20 somethings women are trying to finish their undergraduate and graduate degrees and/or establish their careers as well as their financial stability. They are basically getting to a place where they can afford to have children comfortably. Young people have lives through one recession ( and maybe a second one) so they know time is valuable.
    • sejla

      With a 50% divorce rate at some point a lot of people are going to have start all over again so I’d assume the good guys might be available again at some point

    • @sejla Divorced "good guys" are smart enough to realize that there is no future in getting married again, ever, no matter what.

    • @KrakenAttackin You are correct. An exclusive LTR, even with the intention of having kids doesn't necessitate legal marriage ever again. I think most good guys are figuring out from bad experiences that marriage is a very bad idea for men until the laws get changed.

  • Leraleira
    Ok, so this is the classic propaganda men like to spread. For some reason they think they know what it is like for women older than 22. They very obviously do not. If you would ask ”older” women the majority are likely to tell you that they still have a ton of men willing to date them. I don’t know any woman who doesn’t. That includes the ones who have kids and it kncludes the ones in their 40s, 50s and yeah even my 78 year old grandmother have men come up to her asking for her number.

    In the same way, if you ask younger women and girls, a majority would probably tell you that malss, while they might be willing to have sex with them (or even date them for a few months or years), aren’t willing to commit for life and certainly not have babies. It’s not as easy as to say ”get a guy and get married at 23, because otherwise no men will want you”. The men that age do not want to settle down. And, contrary to what many men seem to believe, most people settle down with a person close to their own age. The average age difference between spouses is just 2.3 years. Women in general do not want much older men, in fact many of them will tell you how frustrating, awkward and even disgusting it is to have all these men their dad’s or grandad’s age hit on them.

    Yes, it is true that female fertility decline with age and the risks associated with pregnancy goes up. However, men aren’t excluded from this. While it might be possible for them to father children even at 95 years old their fertility do decline as well and the risks go up. Older men take longer to get a woman pregnant (even if she’s young), the risk of miscarriage or stillbirth and pregnancy complications such as preeclampsia and gestational diabetes also increase if the dad is on the older side. Their babies are at higher risk of being born prematurely (and that comes with its own set of risks), low birth weight, seizures, low apgar score and also a variety of disorders, diseases and mental illnesses. For example children born to older fathers have higher risk of autism, adhd, bipolar disorder, cancer, schizophrenia, depression, alcholism, drug addiction, suicide, lower iq, learning difficulties, cleft palate, heart defects.

    This decline and increase in risk happen at around 35 years old and increase the older the man is. This is even after accounting for things like the mothers age, potential diseases and disorders in the family, socioeconomic backgrounds and such things. The risks are even greater if the mother is considerably younger (10 years or more) than the father.

    So, you are right about the fact that women need to start thinking about having kids earlier and making a plan earlier. The same thing do go for men as well though.

    I find a lot of women, probably a majority, do know that fertility decline as they age, maybe not really to what extent or exactly how early it begins to go down hill, but never the less, they’re somewhat aware. My impression is that men however are not aware about their fertility declining as well and the risks for both mother and child associated with older fathers. They also don’t seem to understand that their woman don’t have all the time in the world to have babies. A lot of the time it is the men who stall baby making and want to wait. They also tend not to want to settle down until their 30s and by then the fertility of women their age have started declining and, as mentioned before, people tend to settle down with people their own age so no, it’s not just for him to go out and grab a 21 year old instead even if some men would like to think so.
    • So wrong from males perspective. I did ok when i was younger but 10x more younger girls like me now. Id say a large majority of women prefer a significantly older man. Although my situation is different. Im very fit and wealthy so for a fat broke guy maybe it is worse being old too. But for me its made me very attractive to women.

      Just because men ask for your number doesn't mean they want a relationship. It means they want sex. Ill fuck anything that gets my dick up but i wouldn't ever date a girl seriously older than 22. Just can't do it. Im too valued by women to choose someone i feel completely out of their league. Id feel like a loser to date a girl older tbh and i can get younger girls so its a realistic requirement as well.

    • DianaWest

      @bamesjond0069 lol. guys like you are not dating material or worth the effort. the only kind of girls you'll attract are shallow gold diggers that will take away all your assets and use them to fund her boyfriend's college tuition. so delusional, some men are. you deserve whatever hot young thang comes your way.

    • nelly83

      @bamesjond0069 money is not the secret to love. You can’t buy love. Either you can get it or you can’t

  • Emilia_45
    Wow, you clearly put a lot of effort into this. The thing is, you can’t know for sure this is what will happen. I feel like you are trying to set a path of what’s “correct” or “right” to do, and that if you get married in your 20s you’ll have a nice husband and children, and if you get married in your 30s (if anyone even wants you anymore, like you said) your life is doomed basically. I think your view of life is very black and white, not considering all of the grey shades in the middle.
    I’m not saying you are wrong about the biology in this analysis, i’m just saying that even if you do all these things, life is unpredictable and sometimes thinks don’t work out in the way you want them to.
    Also, some women do know all these things but still want to party and get married in their 30s, and i see nothing wrong with that.
    I just see no point in this, everyone chooses their own path and i don’t believe this is going to change any minds. I feel like you are trying to tell us what’s right, and what should be done, but the truth is, there’s not only one way to do “what’s right” for your life. Relationships are just too broad a subject to be reduced to your analysis.
    • I hate how these people pressure us to marry young but men can marry when they want

    • He is telling you what your biology says is right and wrong. Also, with every sexual partner you have you increase your odds of divorce later and decrease your overall ability to deeply pair bond. Although men may not know this intellectually, a big part of our DNA tells us that women with high sexual partner counts are fundamentally unattractive as a potential mother to our children.

    • Emilia_45

      My biology is my biology, it doesn’t tell me what’s right and wrong, i have a prefrontal cortex (as all humans) and have the ability to reason and use logic. So no, even if my body indicates certain things, it doesn’t mean they’re right or wrong. They just are. Because, we have long evolved from animals and therefore acquired the ability to set goals for ourselves that have nothing to do with our instincts/biology. This means we can decide what we want to do with our lives, instead of being slaves of our instincts. Human being’s goal in this world now goes beyond procreating, it involves achieving what makes us happy, like helping others, studying, getting a degree, travelling, etc. So no, my biology just indicates things, but it doesn’t tell me what will make me feel achieved and happy.

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  • Rebeccalions
    This could be accurate--if we lived in 1956. This is your opinion which you try to pass off as fact. Let's get real, men don't prefer girls in their 20s because they can have kids. They prefer them because they think they look better. So, why don't you just be real and say women are judged on looks and men on merit?

    Also, I don't know any older single women who are expecting a "millionaire lifestyle on a McDonald's budget." Most of them are single because they worked hard on their life and are now making more money than most men.

    Furthermore, your graph is extremely skewed. It might be right for the 1950's, but not now. Men don't have that much social value after women at 30. Men's looks disappear too and in this age, women don't care as much to find a man with money.

    Women aren't settling in their 20s like they used to, not because of "partying" but because more are going to college and making their own money so they don't have to depend on men.

    Also, most people that marry in the early 20s divorce later on in life because we are living longer and maturing faster.

    I settled at 23 and we divorced when I turned 30 anyway. I really should've been playing the field instead and waiting until I had the maturity to know what I really wanted first.

    Women want equal rights as men, but you are insinuating not to go to college or focus on a career because then you'll be old and ugly and no guy will want you. Well maybe these women should wait so they find a guy who loves them instead of loves their looks.

    Please don't use the babymaking excuse, because men's sperm start to mutated after 35 and autism is linked to old sperm. There are adoption centers and other ways for men to conceive of his wife can't. Plus there are women in their 20s who can't have kids. I don't see men urging them to go to a gyno to get tested.
    • I'm a man, and I totally agree with you... I'd also add that men themselves pick up roughly the same amount of "baggage" by the time they get to their thirties...

      But I disagree with one aspect... men don't only love younger women... I'd love to date and even marry an older woman.(but women seem to only like older men)...
      Also the SMV as described by him really differs from person to person depending on their childhoods.

    • @Godofbliss yes! That's why I hate these fake graphs. And there's always some old man behind them with an agenda.
      A lot more women are now dating younger men and realizing that the older man concept is outdated. Older men still have the capacity to cheat, divorce and other things.
      So, according to this graph, now that a woman has spent her life finding a man instead of school/work, what is she supposed to do when she has nothing?

    • You're right, in today's world, setting yourself up at least on a basic level, is the first priority. As it should be. Pulling one's weight is basic manners anyway.
      Women depending on men is wrong for both of them and could lead to varied complications.
      Also, I think women going for older men has something to do with the whole concept of maturity and all that I guess.

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  • G3tAClue
    All I’m gonna say is that if I could go back in time and tell myself anything, it wouldn’t be anything from this article. Instead, I’d tell myself to ignore all men until now. I’d tell myself to take a gap year before college to go explore the world. I’d tell myself that dating older men doesn’t mean they have their shit together.

    Truth is, I’ve had my shit together longer than everyone I’ve dated. Not sure why I need a guy to tell me to hurry up the baby makin’.
    • The author of this article is 50 lol he just wants to bang young chicks

    • G3tAClue

      That’s exactly what it sounds like

  • J2ohhhhh
    It is easy to look good in the twenties, but the real quality DNA is from a woman who's attractive even in her 30-40s It isn't worth going for someone from the age group of women who are wanted by everyone yet their long-term value is completely an unknown factor. I mean for fuck sake that's the dumbest evolutionary strategy possible. That's like buying a brand new land rover.
    • MrOracle

      1. People buy brand new Range Rovers all the time.
      2. You're focusing on looks too much. A LOT of it is about CHILDREN. If a woman isn't looking for a serious relationship until her early 30s, even if she's successful, she's likely to be 35 or older by the time she's married and ready to have kids - and by then, her chances of conceiving naturally are poor and get worse almost by the day, as does her chance of having healthy children.
      3. If you are worried about looks, meeting her mother will usually give you a very good indication of what you have to look forward to.

  • nella965
    I’m currently 24 and I will have a child in my late 30s regardless if I ever get married. There is no shortage of unmarried men in their 30s looking to have children. Its much more important for me to have kids than get married in life.

    The great thing about being a woman is that I can have kids without having to rely on someone else to agree to have your kid. Men are gonna have to depend on finding love in order for him to ever possibly have a child.
    • @nella965 Classic. "I don't need no baby daddy to raise no chilluns"

      You are a part of the problem if you don't realize how important having a father is to a child.

    • nelly83

      @KrakenAttackin I can easily find a man who wants children. Believe it or not , I used to go on Craigslist and I would find endless lists of eligible bachelors in their 30s, professional men who are desperate for love and finding wives. Many also are hungry children

    • @nelly83 This sounds so cold and vacant of you.

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  • DianaWest
    sure, i'd like to get married 1 day and have a kid or 2. do I really care that much what men think? no, not really. women don't live for men, get that through your heads BOYS. I agree about the fertility issues. yes, ideally I would like to have a kid by 28 or 29. if i don't, it's not the end of the world.
    • morrowlow

      You want to get married but you don't care what men think. Although i like the carefree attitude, it should be important to you what men think if you want to get married. If you are not what men are looking for, guess what, you can't get married. But if that's okay with you then it's all fine and you can go back to not caring what men think

    • DianaWest

      @morrowlow yeah. I really don't care that much about what men think. I care a little, yes. if they are good, genuine men who don't denigrate women and believe that they "have no value past 30" then I respect and care a little bit more about what they think. once you have a close encounter with death or experience a loved one dying, you realize that life and happiness is what matters most, not the shallow trivial bullshit people stress over these days. not some man's opinion about your self worth. even if I die alone, at least i'll die happy. and you don't need to find your "purpose in life" to be happy. I think we all care too much about what others think. normal since we are social beings. on the other hand, once we stop giving a damn so much, we become so much happier. it's important to care... a little. but never healthy to worry that men think women past 30 have "no value," as most men on this question seem to have suggested. also, if men want to get married they should care (a little) about what women think. clearly, most men on this question do not.

  • Barbaric
    This should be common sense. It's quite strange to me the way women react to this, in complete denial, just because they don't like it.

    Of course when it comes to serious long-term relationships, there's a lot more to it than shallow, superficial traits. Relationships based solely on those things fail. Shared values, shared goals, personal compatibility, emotional connection etc. All matter greatly.

    At the same time it's a mistake to pretend that these things don't also matter to an extent. It's silly to simply pretend that this is all false or that it's just "propaganda" that men like to put out to demoralise women. Some might do - MGTOW and incels especially - but there's still truth in it.

    Flipping it over to men and something that might apply to me - I'm a short guy. Most women prefer tall men. That's a fact. I could deny it because I don't like to hear it, but that doesn't make it any less true. I'm also confident though, and I've still dated, I have an amazing girlfriend and I'm happy. I could maybe say "yeah, well I'm short and it hasn't held me back in dating" and that's true, and I could pretend like that disproves that theory - but that still doesn't make it any less true that women prefer taller men in general. I could maybe even say, as some women have here, that I wouldn't want a woman who preferred to date tall men, and try to somehow judge them negatively because I don't like that standard. Doesn't change a thing either.
    • How mature were you in your 20s? We dont even have much life experiences and you guys except us to settle down and marry just because some shallow guys would not want us in our 30s? This is just propaganda

    • We are aware of it but you dont get it

    • Barbaric

      @hi_it_is_me123

      It's not propaganda, you just call it that because you don't like the idea of it. I also met my girlfriend when I was 22 and her 20.

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  • HOAAH
    Great article. I read every word. I just want to say that at 24 I was a virgin, had no debt, was very fit, and had a pet fish that died. I met and married my husband then also, as I guess I smv was high then.
  • pleasestopthis
    What you're saying makes sense and I completely understand why people would believe this and agree to this. Women are supossed to be the most attractive in their 20s (there are exceptions).
    However I don't particularly agree because I have zero interest in dating or having a partner, I have other priorities. If somehow meet a man and we both feel we're worthy to spend our life together then so be it. If not, that's okay too.
    Nice take.
  • NineBreaker
    1. I agree.
    2. That is quite a lot of analysis. A lot of the claims you stated in this take can be easily observed in society. It's nice to have some research help support that though.
    3. Bottom line: Take advantage of your youth, since it's an investment you can cash in when you're old. Don't squander it on BS, unless that was your plan all along. It just so happens that men and women are different.

    I can speak out of personal experience. When I was 23, very few women found me to be attractive. In fact, one girl I dated emphatically told me that I'm a great guy, but wished I was older and "more well-established". Understandably, I was not happy about that. I used to work multiple part-time jobs, barely making ends meet, all while applying to dental school. If anything, that experience helped motivate me to become more successful today.

    Now, I'm a 36 year old and I have a great career. 20-something year old women rarely paid me any attention when I was in my 20's. Now far more 20-something year old women (and older) whose peers from a decade ago would reject me, actually find me attractive. It is what it is.
    • nelly83

      Maybe you just aged well. I’m 24 and I find lots of guys in their 30s to be balding And unattractive

    • That may be true. I admit I may have aged well over the last decade and a half. However, if my level of physical attractiveness hadn't changed much since my 20's wouldn't that support my point: That women are probably not as focused on my looks.

      I'm not saying that they completely neglect my appearance. I do put a reasonable effort on how I look and dress, and I'm mindful of how I behave and carry myself. I'm just arguing that my looks don't seem to be their point of primary focus.

    • nelly83

      Your level of physical attractiveness hasn’t changed much, which is why you are still attractive. Understand that as men enter their 30s many Start to lose hair or go bald and develop wrinkles or crappy skin

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  • Aislin9
    There is no shortage of men looking for women. Every age group has a flood of messages from guys on dating apps. Prove me wrong.
    • I have a decent number of female friends that would like to go for a one night fling with someone but no one non creepy each day. The statement about flood of messages is wrong, if you are not especially attractive you won't get flooded from either sides..

    • Aislin9

      @sensible27 Every friend of mine has always had a flood of messages, some attractive, some not

    • Depends on how we/you define flood. What is the number of per day likes?

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  • nelly83
    I don’t understand why men love acting as if any woman over the age of 30 cannot give birth. Most married women give birth in their 30s. The average age to get married is late 20s to early 30s. So why would you assume that only women in their 20s can give Birth?
    My mother had me at 37 and I’ve seen countless women get married and gave birth in their 30s. I do not want to get married or have kids in my 20s, because I want to my youth and freedom before I get tied down. Most young women nowadays are focusing on education and career and friends before they settle down. It’s not the age of traditional housewives where women married at 23 and birthed at 25.
  • Alex_andrine
    That was an entertaining read, i giggled a couple of times lol Probably because I'm the fat 32 years old bitch with a teenager, my SMV is on the low-looow😂 I get what you mean in this text but i think it's pretty obvious that women (as well as men) in their 20s lack in maturity which is totally normal and lead them to do stupid shit. I do think that when you're in your 20s obviously you have more men attracted to you. The men that wanna date me are of all ages, but mostly younger men or way older. The thing is : they all think I'm 25-ish! Could you imagine their face ( especially the young ones) when i say I'm 32 and that i got a 14 years old daughter?🤣 I swear, it's fucking priceless!
  • DWornock
    I agree except the social market value age should be 10% lower for women and 15 to 20 percent lower for men. And, certainly, women's peak fertility is not age 28. That is 10 years past their peak fertility. Already, I have noticed that the 18 to 22-year-old girls that I'm most attracted were more available to me two or more years ago. Based on that, a man's peak SMV is not near age 34 as the graft shows but 8 to 10 years younger.
    • MrOracle

      Medically, peak female fertility is 28 - that's based on medical research. And similarly, SMV values by age come from a compilation of studies. You may not like the results, but I didn't invent them, I'm just reporting them.

    • DWornock

      I don't believe that; not even for one minute.

    • MrOracle

      You can believe anything you like. There's plenty of research available online - this is a well-studied topic.

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  • Ellie-V
    My ultimate life goal has nothing to do with romance so this really doesn’t apply to me.
    But I enjoyed reading.
  • DeeDeeDeVour
    A lot of things begin to happen in almost everyone's 20s.
    • MrOracle

      Of course - and far more than just a few generations ago. But biology is what it is, and young women need to realize that their 20s are their very best chance of finding the high-value partner that they want (assuming they want that in their lives - not everyone does). College and careers aren't going to magically change female biology to give them more time later. That's a harsh reality, but it's still the reality, and those who ignore it will suffer the consequences of that decision. Nothing you or I can do about it either, beyond education.

    • nelly83

      @MrOracleI. m young fertile 24 yr old, recent college grad , unemployed rookie. And I want to date a high caliber lawyer which I doubt I can get due to the unemployed loser that I am. Youth is really not everything

  • Jamie05rhs
    Generally a good article.
    A couple of points, though.

    First: You should never use SMV as leverage. That's unethical.

    Second:. I want to respond to this statement:. "This is why men in their 20s are often not trying too hard to "settle down" - they know they don't have the resources to pull it off yet."
    I actually believe that a lot of men in their 20s are perfectly willing to settle down then. If a man is the marrying type, he will have been that way from an early age. (I don't believe in this idea of a switch being flipped and a male human suddenly becoming a moral person overnight when they're done screwing around. Unless they get religion, but that's another story.) However, I have learned from experience that most American women are not ready to settle down yet while they're still in their 20s (or at least their early 20s). So I think that may be a large part of the reason why a lot of young men don't even try to seriously date anyone: because they don't see their efforts bearing any results. And as far as the resources go, that's a large part of it, as that is the reason we get rejected (or fail to pre-qualify) in many cases. But for me personally, that wouldn't keep me from dating. Because I know that I'll have money eventually. You have to start somewhere. I don't think there's any rule that says you have to already own a home on the very first date. (Or maybe there is? 😯🤔🤷)

    Third: You should never, ever, EVER "hurry up and pick a man"! No, no, no, no, no! Do NOT do this -- please! Very bad idea. Countless women have gotten themselves into very big messes doing this very thing. I must add, though: it applies both ways; don't do this if you're a man, either. ... HOWEVER: "there are no more good men around.". There is some truth to this statement. There are probably plenty of good men still out there. You just don't notice them because you're thinking too superficially. (Which, I think, was the author's point.)

    Fourth: My last point is basically agreeing with the author in that you should be honest with yourself in what your SMV is. If there are things knocking down your numbers that you cannot change, just accept those things and accept your lower number. But if they are things that you CAN change, then you need to get started working on changing them immediately, and try to get that done within a 2 to 3 year window. Because time doesn't slow down and time doesn't wait. Yes, you may have the rest of your life ahead of you. But you're not always going to be young. That's just a fact. Take a lesson from me. Just yesterday I was 24. And then I was 27. And then 30. And now I'm 33. THIRTY-THREE. This is no joke, kids. This is the real deal. You better wake up.
    • MrOracle

      I wasn't saying "hurry up" at all - I was saying (IF marriage and kids are important to you - they aren't to everyone) that they should "start planning and working towards marriage MUCH EARLIER". The idea is to NOT rush, but instead to start earlier so they have plenty of time to pick a quality man while they can still attract the highest-quality guys out there. Those two things (hurrying vs. starting much sooner) are two very different things.

    • @MrOracle Oh, I totally agree. Basically, it's like "hurry up and get started [on the dating process].". Right? I know exactly what you mean. You're saying everything that I myself have been saying for a while now as well.

  • LaPrincesita
    I almost thought you were going to say something of value but than you started to talk about some booboo 😐 if your “life advice” for woman is settle down just stfu and nobody gives a shit about older women’s opinions wtf were in a completely different times.
    • Also I’m not saying older woman’s opinions aren’t valuable because all woman’s opinion are valuable but most older women have different mindsets not all but I don’t even think that means these older woman’s don’t support us because they do.

  • White_Widow
    Good take, well done. And I agree, from society's and biological view point you are completely correct. What's also true is that a lot of women don't get this and are indeed wondering "why they can't find a good man who would want to date them" let alone marry them and start a family.

    I'm not saying that women should follow this, but I hope, that it can make them understand (like you mentioned in the take) that they also need to bring something to the table, at any age!

    Anyway like I said, well done. I'm looking forward to the men's version.
    • We are worthless when we hit 30s because men only like youngee women

    • Who said anything about being worthless? Everyone needs to bring something to table shouldn't they? Or can you explain to me why that wouldn't apply to women?

    • I mean i eould rather want to have 10 years to settle down, instead of marrying my in my early 20s

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  • hi_it_is_me123
    Why old men just dont date someone their age? Why should I care about a man's opinion on dating who is the same age as my dad? Do you care what people in your parent's age think about your sex or datinh life? I do not date older men and do not give a fuck if a man get mad at me for partying and sleeping around. I mean who tf are you? Stop trying to control a woman's sexuality and I can't help if men are shallow and only date younger women. That is why I treat these men like shit, who only wants to date me only because of my youth and beauty. I mean if you date a girls for shallow reasons to not except me to respect you. The excuse with fertility is bullshit. You can adopt. Would you really leave partner if you can't get kids and you call this love? Funny, how women get called gold diggers but when men date women for their beauty and youth, they dont get degraded. I am ready for downvotes by offended incels.
    • Hahah also why a man can marry whenever he wants, while a woman has to marry in her 20s?

    • "You can always adopt". Take from a guy who was adopted, there is an enormous impulse for a man to want to continue his genetic lineage. This is core to our DNA and not easily cast aside. So for you to say essentially "I can ride the cock carousel through my fertile years, eventually find a simp to marry in my 30's and just adopt children", is a wildly short-sighted view of reality.

    • I guess you haven't interpreted his post as helpful huh? LOL Either have I. Kindly see my comments.

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  • Lman3000
    Girls in their 20's make things happen? Yeah girl I knew have, half of them well I think they made some good moves, others well have not, kids after high school is a dumb idea, there are other mistakes being made, People are just stupid nowadays can't sum it in any other word.
    • MrOracle

      I'm not suggesting girls get married on their 20th birthday, I'm saying don't wait until you are 34 before it occurs to you that you should find a guy to settle down with because you want marriage and kids. For women who WANT marriage and kids, they should be seriously looking in their mid-20s, and hopefully in a serious, marriage-potential relationship by their late 20s.

  • SuccessfulHornDog
    Young girls will reject this as something that won't happen to them. They'll never get fat. They'll be able to have it all so they'll postpone trying to get serious until they aren't as desirable.

    Guys need to be very careful of women in their thirties that want to have kids because they will use you. Dont think that they won't. Not every woman will but it happens more and more these days. Buyer beware
  • KrakenAttackin
    Absolutely, positively, correct. However, I think your article will be met with deaf ears as "Go Girl" and "YOLO" culture is so incredibly strong.

    Somehow, women have bought the idea that they can party hard in their 20's (the average girl in college has 12 sexual partners that they admit to). Than somehow magically find their "Knight in Shining Armor" to marry and start a family. Maybe this works for a tiny percentage of women, but the reality is very high quality men don't have to put up women who have been the town pump for years.
    • Because it is our life. I also dont give a fuck about the life of traditional cuntservatives. Why dont you mind your own business?

    • @hi_it_is_me123 ... speaking of deaf ears.

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  • Torari
    Ah, i can already see all the irrational hate you'll see from this hard shot of reality. A bunch of women in denial about their diminishing smv, thinking they'll still be as popular among high quality men on their late 30's as they where whwn they where 23.
    • nelly83

      I can have a child in my late 30s regardless if I’m married or not. On the other hand , you will need to depend on finding love to have kids

    • Torari

      Yeah, but the further away from 25 you get, the higher the risk of complications. 30 is still fine, but 35-40 can start to get shakey.
      But of course, that all depends on attracting a partner in the first place. You'll probably be able to find someone to settle with later, but they probably wouldn't be your first choice. You get the best partner when you're at your peak, since peak men have options and tend to choose whoever is hottest.

    • nelly83

      Men do not typically look better with age either. I don’t tend to be attracted to guys in their 30s. Many are balding , gaining weight , growing white hairs. Not all men age well. Some do, most don’t.

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  • Godofbliss
    For a 50 year old... you're either really dumb and believe this horse crap or you're really brilliant and will manage to bang a few younger women out of this post.
  • SixFootSexy
    Always a fire take, MrOracle. I respect your views about both genders more than any other user here. Keep it up!
  • scotcheggs
    wow people here write more in MyTakes/response section than i write an essay...
  • morrowlow
    I don't think it matters whether girls decide to settle down or not. With the way divorce laws are set they won't have much of chance for getting married. Lots of men these days oppose marriage and long term relationships in general
  • shyapples2
    Social market value is subjective not constant, it can play a role in how attractive someone finds you but you can’t simply measure it with a graph because it’s not universal, but I agree that 20s is a great time to make shit happen whatever it is
    • MrOracle

      Agreed. It's one component in the equation, and doesn't apply to everyone equally. But it's still important to know and understand SMV trends by age, even if only to work towards bucking the trend.

  • Aakash_Hangargi
    Mr. Oracle salute to you, it's a great Mytake and I don't have anything to contribute here but loved the conversation going on in the comment section..
  • CoollLady21
    it Ok. yet I been through another break up. I just want to find the right guy for me , yet I been having bad luck through my teen and now 20 . I know relationship are serious.
  • Broken_doll
    What a load of bullshit. I feel bad for girls who buy into this (as I used to be one of them!)
    I have my MBA in finance and I can tell you there are no valid sources on here and the graphs are skewed. And who is the author? A 50 yo man at a gun range? LMAO

    I did settle down in my 20s, but I was too immature then and it didn't work out anyway. I put him above my career, so after the breakup, I had to play the catch up game with school and work when I could've been successful earlier on. What a waste of fucking time.

    I'm 40 and I still get hot, young pro athletes chasing me all over the city.

    I have even been to my gyno and I'm still fertile as fuck

    Wanna know the truth about all this? These false statistics with no valid resources are written by old men who want to bang young girls.

    Girls, wanna know the right age to marry? When you motherfucking feel like it!
  • TacosRAwesome
    The awkward moment when you grow up ugly and have to buy your own drinks and don't get this.
    • I would have definitely bought you drink, but I am against drinking it damages health so I am sorry no booze 😂🍻🙏

  • OddBeMe
    I would say both genders in their 20s should take academics and learning more seriously. Males just have more opportunities which is why the graphs look like that.
  • If you are single, let me ask you a question:

    When you see someone you like, what do you do about it?
  • WowwGirl
    Girls In Your 20s: Now Is The Time To Make Things HappenPretty awesome article sir..🙂
  • zagor
    I don't know who's more annoying, the woman being interviewed by Steve Harvey, or the whiny twerp narrating the video.
  • -Asca-
    What the hell is this and how did anyone come up with such bullshit as a "social market"?
  • bamesjond0069
    So true. Its like every young girl who i date just wants casual friends with benefits or fun partying, they are obsessed with some imaginary career.

    And im old enough to see them a few years later and they come crawling back asking to be with me. Well i just laugh.

    I wanted you when you were young and hot and sweet and innocent and had no debt. Now you're old and fat and rough from working and competing against men and have slept with a bunch of men and come with student loans and credit card debt... so no thanks. Thats not wife material. These are the main specific reasons why a woman goes from high value to no value.
    • Plus they often have kids from the hook ups/partying which also makes them less valuable to any good partner.

    • DianaWest

      wow. men think women live just for them. fucking delusional. what if a woman just does not give a shit? what if she wants to live single for the rest of her life? i'd rather die alone than marry a guy with your personality/mentality. sexual market value. you have me cracking up there, considering the fact that i see men chasing women in their 40s and they are sorely disappointed when those women ignore them. lies that some low quality men like to console each other with when most women reject them.

    • @DianaWest if you want to be single just be single. I dont think anyone said otherwise.

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  • StickStickity13
    Women severely overvalue themselves. Tinder has caused this. Him wanting to use your pussy for 30 minutes=/= he wants you as a person.
  • captain_voidwalker
    Ohhh man you just tried to tell women to think ahead and to take personal responsibility. Prepare to be called every sort of ist and ism.
    Always remember er when dealing with women, you can't reason with them. You have to out crazy them.
    Instead of telling them waiting to start a family is both the responsible and smart thing to do. Tell them having a career is part of the patriarchy since men are exploiting you labor. And that to fight the patriarchy you should find a man a saddle him with kids and lock him down in a marriage when he is young. Don't divorce him in your 30's then you allowing him to be happy and free to perpetuate patriarchal norms.
    • What responsibility? Marry in your early 20s and get kids, otherwise shallow men would not want you as soon as you are 30?

  • pizzalovershouse
    I say many hang ups we all have from height weight beauty to am I good for them so you never know
  • lolcraft
    I'm surprised you didn't mention anything about the pill.
  • JulieRoze7
    Most interesting myTake I've read in awhile
  • BeautifulMind59
    please post the link for men's version
  • sensible27
    Marked for later read.
  • BoobMan
    This will be a fun one to watch! *gets popcorn*
  • moviedude714
    A lot of Truth to this
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