I'm all for equality, I always try to pay my half -I insist especially when I'm not sure I'd like a second date- but men don't seem to like it. Even my boyfriend didn't want me to take him on vacation. I had been asking him for a year and a half. He wouldn't let me pay and he didn't have enough for a trip. The second summer I asked him I got mad at him "so, you wouldn't take me on vacation if I couldn't afford it?" and he said "no, of course I would and I wouldn't take a no for an answer" so I asked "what's the difference?" and now I ask you people the same. Do you let your date/partner pay if he or she wants to?
Why do *some* men get offended when a woman offers to pay?
I expect to pay for everything on a date regardless of how long we have been dating and our relative financial positions. Two or three times, a woman has offered to pay her share from a sense of obligation, feeling that it is what she "should" do. I have responded, "I'm a very traditional male, I came to this date with the expectation that I would pay for everything and I am fine with doing that. I don't think that buying you dinner obligates you to do anything for me in return. You aren't obligated to hold my hand, give me a goodnight kiss, and you certainly aren't obligated to do anything more than that. I'm just a traditional guy and this is how it has always been for me. But if paying for your share is very important to you, you can do that, because I would never let something like that be a source of conflict for us. . . but it's really not necessary." After that brief speech, they put away their credit card. And they held my hand, and gave me a good night kiss, freely and willingly.
7
4 Reply
Asker
+1 y
Very well said 😊 I'm not against letting a man pay, I'm against men not *letting* me choose such a simple thing unless I'm willing to put up a fight
It would be an extremely silly thing to fight about. It is all about false male pride. These are the same kind of guys who might think you drive a pickup truck if you're a real man.
One hand I like being paid for on the other hand if I’m being paid for all the time it makes me feel like a gold digger even if that’s not the case so that’s why I always offer to split the bill even if the answer ends up being no it gives me sum sort of comfort knowing that I at least offered to help pay😊
@anaya06 You can always invite a guy over for dinner as an expression of gratitude, assuming that yo trust him well enough to invite him into your home.
I think the only reason why one would get offended is because of pride. Thoughts like "does she think I don't have any money?" or "doesn't she believe I can provide for her?"... Or like some already pointed out "is this a test to see if I'm a REAL men?" I won't comment on these thoughts, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing as long as it doesn't really influence the relationship. To give an example, my thoughts about your boyfriend were pretty neutral until you said he wouldn't ALLOW the both of you to go on a trip if he wasn't the one paying for it. There my image of him became a quite bad and took a nosedive when he said he "wouldn't take no as an answer" if he wanted to have a vacation with you (while paying, ofc) I get that it may hurt his pride allowing uoh to pay for him, but refusing to go in a trip for so long despite you clearly wanting to do so and insisting on it is nonsensical and even disrespectful in my opinion I'm quite curios to know how he answered your question, though, would you mind continuing the story up to there? ^^
2
2 Reply
Asker
+1 y
Haha sure, he opened and closed his mouth a couple times. He thought about it and then he said he felt bad about "making" me spend money on him because he's "supposed" to spend money on me. I didn't finish the story because then I would've answered my own question and what I actually wanted was to discuss this and maybe just maybe more people would realize how silly it is. Of course I explained to him that a relationship is a partnership and besides I wanted to spend money on US, not just him which made him feel better and we celebrated his bday on the trip. I had a really good time and I spent as little as I could just so he wouldn't feel bad about it.. which kind of makes me feel bad but that's ok, I have to give in a little too 🤷🏼♀️
Ahahah, I'm glad I got to hear the rest of the story You two seem to be able to communicate properly, so don't worry about feeling bad for paying, you'll surely find a balance that satisfies both, with time
*Some* men got it stuck in their heads that relationships "Work" a certain way and that's how it's gonna be. Like men gotta be the providers and pay the bills. But life ain't like that.
There's no magic formula that says women are gonna go along with all your expectations that probably haven't been communicated out loud. When women offer to pay, *some men* feel that their internal schema for how relationships "work" is being threatened, and I guess if you go around expecting everything to be done your way, you're gonna encounter a lot of road blocks.
Seriously though, relationships are a war, not a battle. If he wanna provide, save up for the wedding cuz THAT's expensive. Or he can get used to being treated like a king, cuz modern women are queens and they know things girls weren't allowed to do in previous generations ;)
LOL this happened to me once. This guy was western european and he was new in the country, we went out for drinks one night and talked for hours. In the end I asked for the bill and he was ready to pay but I didn't give him time to do it and instead I payed for both of us I noticed he was a bit confused and I told him it's okay you're new here next time you pay. Never heard from him since then lol. I guess he didn't like it.
In one of the opinion exchanges you wrote that <<You see, I don't want a "provider" I want a partner.>> I am really moved by this! It's so rare for women to act like that. This shows that you are indeed a great, decent person. A lot of females are attracted not to a men itself, but only to his wealth, power, status and so on; so that they could exploit it and live an easy life. But you are different. You stepped down from a pedestal the western culture placed you as a woman on and desire a true affection, regardless of your boyfriend's financial situation. The fact that you are even ready to share your resources and take a man you love for a vacation is something that transcends a typical entitlement mentality that many girls posses and is a clear sign that you want two-way street type love, i. e. a mutual one. Society brainwashes men from young age that they are a disposable resource, that they should put women on pedestal, treat them like princesses and of course pay for everything, since she is doing them already a big favour that she graciously allowed them to spend time in her presence and entertain her. (In past centuries men were mostly the ones who work and have money so it was more natural and just that they were required to pay but it isn't like this anymore since both man and woman can work nowadays.) I think that is why your boyfriend rejects your offers - he might not feel worthy of it, afraid that he will be spurned by others for that or he has what society taught him imprinted in mind so strongly that he firmly believes that accepting something costly, such as a vacation, from a woman is awkward/unnatural and unmanly. I really, genuinely, wish you good luck and all the best! Stepping down from that aforementioned pedestal exalts you, at least in my eyes, above the women that remained there.
Why thank you. Just keep in mind most of us (men and women alike) were born and taught to believe certain things about ourselves and our sex. It's truly up to us -all of us- to break the moulds we were born into 🙃
I'm actually surprised there are still guys who actually get 'offended' by that. I can understand some wanting to insist on paying even though she offers, and that's because it's a shit test a lot of women still use to evaluate a guy because they judge a guy harshly if he doesn't insist on paying when she offers. Yes, a lot women still do that. But in my experience most guys expect and prefer a women is willing to and offers to pay her half, EVEN on the first date.
For me personally, if a woman doesn't offer to pay at least her half, if not the entire bill (I would let me pay for all of it), on the first date, she will not be getting a second date from me. And if she judges me harshly because I let her pay her half and decides won't give me a second date, she has done me a favor by exposing her true colors right up front and saving me the trouble of finding out her true character after multiple dates.
I think I speak for most guys when I say I'm sick of the double standards women have today with respect to gender issues, especially in dating.
Just tell them you want it too be an even relationship and show your evenly invested in the relationship. And that you don't want to come off as a burden finacially. If he still tries to refuse then tell him fine y'all pay for it all and watch him like like flail
As to the vaction part tell him its your like holiday gift XD. And watch him like sigh and then give in. XD.
1
1 Reply
Asker
+1 y
Haha yeah. My boyfriend gave in in the end but I'm actually surprised at how many men think that they HAVE to pay
I have no problem with a woman offering to treat me. It's not that big of a deal because I don't have any type of desire or need to prove who I am by displaying what's in my wallet. I dream of the day I have a woman who out earns me. That's just a comfortable thing because I know that if we're making it on my salary and then she comes to the table with more than I can show, then it's all gravy for us. My masculinity cannot be quantified with any material objects and if you have a different opinion, men, then you have been given a disservice and are badly in need of a reeducation as to what is a man.
I imagine they think things along the lines of; Oh no, if she pays for me, it means I'm not wearing the pants in this relationship! BUT THE GUY IS SUPPOSED TO PAY!Me, I can't stand paying for everything, especially on new dates with a new person. You think money grows on trees? No. Split the cost and don't be stingy.
If my partner wants to spend money on me... of course I'll take it. Not only is it rude to refuse a gift, but why would anyone say no to free stuff?
1
1 Reply
Asker
+1 y
it's exactly what they think 🤣 I keep reading about "being a man" and "being supposed to" and wearing "the pants"
@Cynicaldreamer Hm. They don't sell that particular item anymore. However I found similar items being available for sale. I can also just replicate that image and provide a PNG file with that text and color, so that you can upload it somewhere, where they'll print it on a T shirt or a hoodie or whatever (I used https://pixels.com to order some cool designer stuff ).
Personally I want to be able to pay for a date if I go out with a girl because I was raised that way that a guy pays for the date it's just sorta ingrained in my personality because my father and grandfather both taught me it was how it should be, you treat a girl on a date with respect and pay for the meal. And I also personally will try to avoid going on a date if I can not afford to pay for everything because I don't want to be seen as cheap or a bum. I'd rather be seen as the guy who can pay for the full date so the girl doesn't have to worry about anything and can just focus on enjoying the date so hopefully she'd like to go on another
Of course i would let her pay. I have no problem with a girl treating me out. I like taking turns if i take her out i pay. If she takes me out she can pay. What helps also is helping each other if for any reason things get too expensive or things happen. The whole point for being in a relationship is to work together in life's situations.
Men express their affection and care for a woman by providing things for her; that's literally the difference between how we treat a lover and a friend. So when a woman refuses to let you pay, it draws a line in the sand. There's this weird little "I don't want there to be any confusion about whether or not I owe you something" subtext, and that lack of trust kinda freaks us out. Honestly, I instinctively write a relationship off when the woman insists on paying her half, because she's just a friend if she won't let me express my affection for her.
Men grow up being told that they are expected to provide resources in relationships, and we literally have examples everywhere of what happens when the man can't do that. We've heard and lived through many many many horror stories of women insisting on paying their own way, and simply not respecting their man.
0
4 Reply
Asker
+1 y
You know, a lot of guys complain about women being interested in money but there's plenty of men who act like walking wallets. It's perfectly ok that you want to pay but if a woman wants to pay her half you have to let her. That is respect
I'm not sure why you see that as a respect thing to pay your half of a romantic gesture (or even why the subject would matter at all), but I can certainly respect your opinion on the matter. You asked why so many men seem to act that way; what I wrote above is the reason. I think that I would feel differently if my date made it abundantly clear that she was interested in a follow up date. To your point though, there is a huge difference a woman expecting to be doted on, versus a man choosing to dote on her. Most men don't mind spending money on women, but it kinda sucks when your date's presumption is that you are going to shower her with gifts.
I had a guy take my money off the table and ask me "what are you doing?" and repeatedly tell me I could not pay. Only after the waitress left he gave it back. I'm not "allowed"? I needed permission? That's what I mean by respect. I do appreciate the gesture but I want a man to respect my choices rather than holding onto an old tradition like his whole manhood depends on it. Thank you for your input and like I said there's nothing wrong with *wanting* to pay
Because some men are weird. It's 100% illogical, it's just money no need for pointless pride to get in the way of someone paying for something for you which would make you happy. It's mostly Conservative random illogical thoughts is this one.
I’ve always preferred to go dutch on everything. Whenever my boyfriend gets me something i either pay half, pay him back or get him something of equal value. I like to treat my boyfriend, and sometimes i let him treat me, but in the end it all evens out
Because they feel they’re superior idiots just be sure they paid the bills. Personally, I don’t mind my guy paying my bill, but it’s a massive turn off if he doesn’t accept presents from me. Or maybe if he doesn’t let me pay the bill at least sometime. Very stupid of such men. And if we think of it? They only pay where they know they’re getting something out of it. We girls may end up paying even for our male friends.
I dont get offended but it makes me feel weird like I hate having people buy things for me and if they do I always find a way to pay the back and I was always raised to think the guy pays for the date so it just kind of makes me feel weird and uncomfortable.
2
1 Reply
Asker
+1 y
Well that's understandable. Although if a woman wants to pay her half try and see it as a preview of a potential relationship, do you want a partner or a sugar baby? I don't buy guys stuff, I just wanted to pay my half on the first dates. Now I'm in a relationship so we just take turns, it's a partnership
Really? I'm personally totally fine with it. I guess it comes partly from the fact that society expects so much men to be providers so some men could feel weakened or emasculated because "they are not doing their job as men". I totally disagree with that expectation personally but some people hold this dear.
I can't speak for everyone, of course. But I know that my life experience has taught me that women straight up don't respect a man who isn't paying for her. It's not even a "gold digger" thing. It's literally a difference of how men and women *generally* express their love. Women generally express their love for their family by being present, and they can't do that if they have to work constantly.
If they pay then they will feel entitled to get into your pants eventually. If you pay then it's like a rejection "Thanks but no thanks" kind of feeling.
It's like one of those male spiders offering a meal to the much larger female spider and hope to bang and run before he becomes the meal himself.
He wants a traditional relationship & you might not be the right match if you don’t think his preferences matter.
I’m not saying it’s automatically bad for a couple to mutually agree to trade off on expenses but it’s a choice.
It’s hilarious that women go on & on about wanting to pay their way but when real expenses come along like a house, if he makes more money, she’s nowhere to be found. she forgot where she put her purse. There’s a reason why all (straight) women want to marry UP. It’s not because they want to share expenses 50/50. The women who marry down didn’t do it by choice. ‘Up’ men said nope to them.
his preferences matter? both preferences matter, I'm not a prostitute. my boyfriend gave in because he couldn't find any valid arguments as to why he can pay and I can't
In your relationship you are the leader & he’s the follower. That’s why he gave in. He just doesn’t know it yet.
And who said anything about prostitution? You are aware that a man can get free or low priced sex from millions of women, right? Way cheaper than being in a relationship. A man doesn’t view you as a prostitute if he’s in a serious relationship with you.
He would have had a valid argument if he knew who he is and what he wants but he’s uncertain. While you have a strong belief that you know what you want.
No.. there is always a leader. 50/50 is a myth. A democracy of two people never works because of simple math. As to “cult” well that depends on who the leader is & who the follower is.
i guess because they see themself in the role of the provider. if you take that away from them, they feel like they can't offer you anything and that makes them feel bad about themself.
well it is kind of sad... cause in this day and age, "masculinity" doesn't seem desirable at all. men struggle with that a lot. to us it looks like all we naturally do to be liked by a girl is "not ok" anymore. so men are sort of lost.
See, it's this. If you let a men even pay by the first date of split the bill and he accept. That shows that that's a men who will mever can be the provider of your future family. Every men knows that. But you women let them go away with it and this will be a totally wrong start because the guy who accept that wiwll accept a lot of other things and one day this will backfire on the women. He doesn't want to because he wants to be your men and by his answer he will try anything to be your men. Now here is the thing. Either you force him and he maybe accept which is wronf in his eyes and this will 100% backfire on you or you let him try. Talk to him ask him when do you think we can go on a trip or vacation what is you plan about it. If he knows he will answer if not well then you can decide.
0
5 Reply
Asker
+1 y
You see, I don't want a "provider" I want a partner. If he can't even share a stupid coffee bill on a first date how can I trust him to share a life with me? I don't want a man who "takes care" of me, I want a man who cares for me and is willing to build a life together
See and there is the problem. No men will ever accept that this doesn't work. It is not in our nature not in our dna. If you find a guy which you wqnt to be that way fine. This will go on for a few years but if this guy then betrays you don't ask then why he betrayed me. We men and this will never work for us. You can have your job have your own account everything cool with that but don't expect a men to not be the men in your relationship because this is the only thing that he will understand out from this type of relationship. I'am 32 years old. I mever would tell my wife not to make money but I tell her it doesn't matter I will pay everything. Do with your money qhat you want buying birthday presents, Christmas valentiness day but never expect from me to accept that you pay even half of an vacation trip or anything like that because for a real men this is a huge deal breaker.
@Lycirian I know many guys including myself with relationships where we are equal partners with our girls. They make money and pay half of the expenses. It really doesn't make sense that you don't feel like a man if you don't mind that your wife pays for gifts, but not for the house bills. She is still using money that she earned, not you.
I'm not offended. I don't mind if a woman is independent, my pride has nothing to do with a wealth of a woman and if we decide to pay for ourselves or to treat each other, then we'll get along forever!!!
because if a woman offers to pay, 99% of the time its a trick. Either she is offering with no intention of paying (and if he goes along with it she flips out and doesn't want to go on another date with the guy because he is "cheap") OR she is offering to pay because she is signifiying that she is uninterested (and doesn't want to feel "indebted" to him).
Superb Opinion