It's just biology, the female is more valuable. It's like in a farm they only have one bull and it's the most genetically fit male they could find, but they'll take pretty much any cow. It's the same with people, the male has to prove his value and justify why any woman should be with him and the woman has the choice if he's "good enough" for her or not. We can talk about how things "should be" but in reality it never works out that way it's always about leverage.
For instance this guy I used to work with complained to me about how his girlfriend never once comes to his place and always expects him to go to her place. We had a pretty stressful job and on top of that we had school and school work cause we were apprentices. I told him the only way it's gonna change is if you look like you're gonna look for a different girl friend but he didn't want to do that. So she's lazy and entitled but she doesn't have to change because her boyfriend will still come to her place because she has leverage.
But don't worry guys are not powerless we have a very tough time in the beginning but we can learn some things over time ^^. Like when it comes to commitment/ marriage the guy has the leverage he can stay in the relationship as long as he wants without proposing and he'll be happy but the girl might not be. But she can't really do anything about it unless she dumps him or lies about taking birth control and gets pregnant or something (I'm kinda terrified of that). I haven't been dating but I feel like I'm getting close to dating but I don't want kids and I wouldn't be ready at all.
People usually do thing that are in their own interest and when they have an advantage they push it as far as they can. And we just have to deal with that.
It's a society construct that makes us pay for the date and the ring. In the past women were expected to stay at home and didn't had their own money so it had to be that way. Today we still continue with that costume. Nothing to do with biology.
Not to say that we have less value. We have our self worth. If your friend endured an entitled bitch is on him.
We don't have to put up with that crap. We can, yes we can, hold them to the same high standards as they hold us.
Most guys go to the girl's place. Why? Because usually the guy's place is shit compared to hers. The more comfortable space wins. It's not so much or just about attitude or leverage.
Most guys are terrified to have the girl they're dating first go over to their place. They rarely make a good impression (though they do get nicer with age and maturity.)
Guys are often happy at her place, with the way they are set up. Softer sheets, better lighting, etc.
Is there a distance to work or school issue? Then yes, regardless of the above, there probably has to be some compromise, because commutes do take a toll, leave less hours in the day.
But girls need more than just a toothbrush when they sleep over. All that getting ready, with hair and makeup and wardrobe takes effort. Another reason why guys should stay at girls' places.
Tell your friend not to get his head all bent out of shape that it's a power play.
Every man I have dated was like this, and every one I've talked to recently has felt the same way. They also like that if they're the visitor, they can leave whenever they want. If she's at his place, he can't get rid of her so easily. And she might dig around and find some things he doesn't want her to see. Like that filthy pile of laundry on the floor... or whatever.
Because men were raised by parents who taught them to be that way and assuming a father was in the home, likely he was a man who was raised to do that.
I've come across guys on this site, that when I said I wouldn't pay for a girl on the first date. That she would pay for herself and I pay for myself and that ultimately my time is enough.
I had guys say things like, "I would never want my sister to be with a guy like you. A man should pay for the girl". Because in his world the girl is on the pedestal and it's the man's duty to impress her and validate his existence. That she's "blessing" him with her presence.
While in my world, the girl is on the date to begin with because she is impressed by me and wants to get to know me. She hopes I like her too, while I'm hoping she's cool. That's what a first date should be and I've had more than one girl even pay for me on the date because they wanted to.
Not all guys think that's right and truly believe it's their job to cater to a girl because that's all they know.
@AdithyaR helps that it's true. That's what a date is for.
I'm pretty anti trying to buy a girls affection., which effectively what you're doing inherently by paying for everything on a first date.
You're saying, "I'm not enough. You are higher than me. To compensate I will give you my time, energy and resources. Because your time is more valuable than mine"
Rather than. "You're cool, I'm cool, let's spend some time together and see where this goes."
You picked two examples which seem to be true, yes, but they are a small part of relationships. They are just classic tropes, something carried forward for generations.
I thought you were going to say that men have to cater to women's more sensitive natures, which is also true (and would be more accurate.)
But only bad, superficial relationships are unbalanced. Partnerships that last do consider both people.
sure it should be about 50/50.. and I feel like your examples are a bit too superficial.. yes, it is normal that the man take more initiate in the start and that he proposes.. that has been the culture for many years but it has also started to change up. But besides that there is much more to making a relationship work out and women are participating a lot in making that happen.
I agree with the fact that the woman does play a substantial role in making the relationship work. And yes, the woman does go through a lot in bearing the child and what not, but there is often a financial burden put on the man. I guess through my “superficial examples” that’s what I was poking at.
Opinion
40Opinion
u The problem with insisting on 50/50 effort is this: you are aware of every little effort that you make but many of those efforts will not be obvious to your partner (like keeping your mouth shut and not saying anything when his mother says something rude to you.) And you will not be aware of all the efforts your partner makes. So when you compare all the efforts you make to all the efforts you know he makes, it will always feel that you are doing more than him.
Accounting is not a great basis for a romantic relationship.
@OlderAndWiser Although you’re right that it would be a struggle to be making a conscious effort at all times, it doesn’t mean EXACTLY 50/50 at all times possible. It’s more the concept and that both parties should be sacrificing for each other rather than one sided. Plus you shouldn’t even have to “keep your mouth shut” about anything. That’s how conflict arises, lack of communication.
Ok look. There’s two sides to society. The one where everybody’s wanting equality in every way which is impossible and the other in which assumes everybody is equal but some people are better.
To the side wanting equality aka the modern woman they want women equal so I expect similar effort from a woman. She can pay. She can work overtime. She can take responsibility of her choices like kids, being fat, being bitchy, being independent...
The traditional woman doesn’t mind being support or Homemaker. They are feminine, conservative (not political), and embody what most men want.
In my opinion these traditional women are more attractive and better behaved. But because their such a higher quality getting with them requires a larger investment. For these women I don’t mind chivalry, alimony, making the first move, paying for everything. The traditional family. These women sacrifice for the family. Meanwhile modern women are only focused on themselves with comments like owning their bitchy attitude over changing it, short pink hair over long and generic, and seem to prefer polygamy over monogamy.
To sum all that crap up... I’ll work harder for a woman that embodies what I like.
God, not all “modern” women have short pink hair and a bitchy attitude. It’s more about wanting to be independent rather than relying on the man for almost everything. I personally can’t imagine what hell being a house wife is- and would never do it, but good for the women out there who want it. That being said, I think you’re confusing the concept of being a non traditional masculine bitchy freak with just simply a woman seeking independence. Don’t make us out to look bad just because we won’t conform to certain standards.
Ok so far I’ve read half your first sentence and I gotta say this... so ducking bitching and read my ducking opinion. Then debate respectfully.
Also I generalized. If your gonna be disrespectful go away.
It might seem unfair, but the reasons for a man catering to a woman are purely biological and make a whole lot of sense. Thing is that dating is much riskier for a woman than it is for a woman and there is biological necessity for women to be way pickier than men are.. They are the one that have to take care of the kids after all. If woman fails to find for herself a healthy, RELIABLE partner that has proven to her his dedication and loyalty, it's the offspring that could suffer as the consequence. And what a better way to show of your dedication than with a really expensive/costly gift.
Courtship rituals like that are present throughout animal kingdom. It doesn't have to be a material gift necessarily. Peacocks, for example, will spread their big, beautiful, very colorful feathers out in the open for eeeeverybody to see. It is a stupid thing to do, suicidal because of all the potential predators that might see them easily. But it is a sign of courage and strength that females might potentially pick up upon. It's like they are playing a game of chicken with each other as a way of competing for a partner. In case of humans, giving a flower might be really nice. But spending a quarter of your yearly salary on buying a trinket... now that must mean that the guy is serious.
Women have been taught that they are the prize that men need to work for, and they act like it. Ironically, men who don't work for it are often pursued more often by women because we're perceived as harder to catch... and a better prize. I should probably mention that this only happened to me when I left the US and women perceived me as exotic. Though as I was leaving many of the women I knew at college started expressing interest in me once they learned I was leaving, even though they'd had close to four years to try something with me.
But relationships in general are catered to women because it's the cultural perception that women don't need to do anything to deserve a relationship, but men need to work for it in order to deserve it.
There is data that determined that a relationship/marriage is at greater risk of ending if the wife gets a promotion while the risk stays the same if the husband got it. https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20200121-why-promoted-women-are-more-likely-to-divorce
There is also data that says that risk goes up if the man isn’t working full time while it doesn’t matter what kind of job the woman has. https://www.asanet.org/sites/default/files/attach/journals/aug16asrfeature.pdf
This honestly doesn’t surprise me in the least. Everyone wants an egalitarian relationship but it doesn’t sit well with most people when put into practice. Men want to be the providers and protectors (at least I do) so they see the value in attaining higher paying positions, it’s what gives them a sense of purpose. I am obviously not a woman but it seems that women want to be provided and protected so they pursue men with such statuses. If the roles are reversed, the role of the male partner is practically useless or less appreciated so it makes sense that the man or the woman decides to bail.
Up to this point it's just always been the tradition for the man to provide everything for the woman and his family.
That's why relationships have always been seemingly catered towards the woman.
Some people just still prefer the old skool way of being.
You know, the whole housewife and the man is the one getting the bread and being a gentleman.
I guess there's nothing inherently wrong with that
But as you know, times are changing.
Men and women are more equal than before.
So I'm all for a 50/50 split when it comes to relationships, there's no reason not to do things that way unless you prefer the old skool way of things.
Never understood that my self. take valentines day, Its specifically geared toward women, Creates a huge financial burden on men, we are expected to spend tons of money and the like with little or no benefit to us, at least that has been my experience of it. My wife never made me feel that way, we do things for each-other on that day, but prior relationships it was definitely one way.
Thanks, I agree!!
This isn’t strictly true. I would say these types of skewed relationships are quite specific to dumb people. Normal people don’t care about rings or holidays or gender roles. All I have to compare though is the relationships between couples I went to University with, and those shown to me on The Jeremy Kyle Show.
Dumb is really not subjective.
Human evolution gave men the instinct to give, and women the instinct to take.
Women had to get wider hips to give birth to our more intelligent babies. They also had to prematurely give birth so the massive heads of human babies could make their way out of the vagina.
Thus, women have to nurse a completely helpless baby for years after birth. Whereas a calf begins walking right after birth because it is unintelligent.
Women became needy for good worker males to give them food etc. Women used sex as the way to attract males; human females ovulate very frequently (and secretly) relative to other animals. In other words, human females are sexually readyfar more often than other females are.
The goal is to entice the male with sex for resources. Today, we all have those ancient instincts to guide human behavior.
Women are needy; men are needed.
i 100% agree and this is how it is in my relationship. if i pay for one date, he pays for the next, or i’ll pay again because i know he’s got it next time. there’s no set way to have a relationship. for holidays i spend as much as he does on me and i try to spoil him when i can. we’re a partnership!! nothing less.
This is ignoring all that women do in relationships. For example, when living together, women typically do most or all of the domestic labor. When having kids, it's the woman who endures the pregnancy and birth. Etc. All of this while also typically having a job of her own.
I completely side with you on that.
It's sexist when relationships are all about wooing and romancing the woman and not having the man wooed and romanced 🙄
I'll tell you what applies only for me and not for most men.
A confident woman, who puts in effort as well to keep the relationship going. I'm fine to be initiative but I need to see her initiative too as part of reciprocation. E. G. I suggest going out, she can join. Likewise she suggests going out and asks me if I'm in (and usually if I am not busy, then I am in).
She believes in splitting the bill because men aren't banks.
She makes me feel loved E. G. she touches me, flirts with me, gives me this look like I'm a juicy steak about to be eaten (figuratively of course) and so on.
She gives me massages just because. She knows I love receiving those, so she comes (and it doesn't matter if I expect it) and starts massaging me. My shoulders, arms, legs, whatever.
She wears pantyhose and touches me with her foot.
She also would give me a flower or something.
That's how I feel wooed and romanced. SEX of course is the icing on the whole cake 😁😁😁
I second Unit1's opinion. These are all things men rarely see or get, despite all of our efforts to cater to females.
@BeenThereLovedIt
Glad to hear I'm not the only one. All this "women should neglect men" bullsh philosophy and mind games seems rather rampant to me to the point it's comparable how some women think that all men cheat 🙄
your sadly mistaken. Most women don't know what a relationships is. Buying flowers, candy, telling you nice things are not a relationship. Neither is women providing sex. That just gets you attention.
A true relationship is faithful, supportive, honest, and you help each other grow and improve as a person. You both have mutual goals and a long term agenda together. You're not clouded by a crush and beginning romance.
Don't worry - in the end you'll kind of pay as well. This way, or that way :)
@andreasderjuengere Ooo, please do elaborate.
We see in wildlife where the male offers 'presents' as a mating ritual (or process).
So in a way it's: ''I give you that shiny pebble - and you make me an egg in return''
The materialistic side in a relationship is only one part of 'the deal'.
I'm not meaning to be spiteful with this.
If you are being reciprocated of the love you desire, she's not the one. The one will reciprocate they same love as you give. You will not have to question her love and affection. You like her and she like you. No question. Don't let attraction keep you in a relationship that's not a need but a want.
That didn't apply to the question at all... but it's still very true
It does apply to the question. Men are too busy being caught with the attraction that's it's hard for them to turn away when their desire is not reciprocating the same. The reason you are coming out of pocket is because she doesn't feel or view relationships the same as you do.
I don't entertain a man if I start to see and feel the feeling isn't mutual. I hate being a fan. People keep you around to use you for sex, money, transportation, lodging, etc.. Annnd, just plain ego stroking. Male and female are guilty.
If he feels he's giving his all and she's not.. or he prefers a woman to be 50/50... Find a woman that will give you 50/50.
I have no problem treating a man they way I like to be treated. If he's kind, generous, respectful, etc... I am the same. It's nothing I wouldn't do for you. But, I must see that the feeling is mutual. I am not a "Fan!"
The woman ultimately has to be the one to decide that a relationship is going to have a chance to blossom. I guess that's just how the tradition goes. I think it's interesting that men can be so much larger than women, but women still lead us around and call the shots.
Don't get things confused.
Yes, we pay the first date, we buy the ring and we have to make the first move, but you girls need to be good to match our expectations.
If you don't you don't get past first date.
I think most women will think that they’re doing 50/50, but what’s happening is that women set the conditions for men and then also decide what constitutes a comparable contribution from themselves. By setting the terms of both sides it will feel 50/50 when really it’s not.
Because there is competition for women (men outnumber women until almost age 40). Once women get used to that, they expect it for the rest of their lives.
I think it ties into these strict gender roles that we made for ourselves, it would be ideal if we could all be treated with respect and dignity regardless of what’s between our legs; but that’s not our society yet. Men are still used for their money and protection.
It's not catered to her. It's just that in the beginning of relationships, women usually play the role of the skeptic and men the role of the crusader out to win fair lady, or whatever. It's very chivalric and old-fashioned by it's nature.
I don't think so. Men have it harder in dating world, no argument there, but women aren't exactly worshipped either. Dating is hard on both.
That's because you young. When you get a couple years older watch this video it'll explain to you why it works this way.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/6X8K14UVk-0Men qualify to a woman first. That’s nature. But a woman who loves him should reciprocate in her own way so it’s not just one sided.
Well, if a relationship is like that, it's a good sign, as a man, to find someone else that will treat you as an equal instead of being a little slave.
I agree that it's completely silly but it's a rule in most countries and I would suggest not to break it. From my experience, most men will think that you are desperate if you put too much effort in the early phases of the relationship
Because society as a whole is catering to women to begin with.
oppression? There was no such thing. Everyone had responsibilities. Women today want to have things both ways. They want all benefits of a traditional relationships, all benefits of the feminist lifestyle and refuse to take responsibility of either. It's all about me me me me me me my rights my money my benefits me me me ME. And even if I was to agree with you, if you're telling me that lowering men, treat them as second class citizen because centuries ago other women (not you) were oppressed then you're nothing but a tyrant.
I agree that modern day feminism is ABSOLUTELY UTTER BULLSHIT. It’s become all about “fuck up the men” “blame the men” etc... but you have to admit, women back in the day had little to no rights. And even in today’s modern world in some places (Saudi Arabia) still get treated like shit. So yes women were oppressed. But the way we’re handling it these days is wrong.
Even under your own question, related to this topic you only care about yourself as a woman. See the irony. There are muslim countries in which a married couple can get divorced only if the woman wants it. She can easily blame the man for not being good enough and not providing enough and then go get the bigger better deal. The only thing you have in your mind is your rights. You never talk about responsibilities. Women always had it much better than men. Quit bitching, go to work and try to live without any help from your friends, the government and your army of white knights. I bet you'll give up after two days. Then you'll get an idea how it is to be a man.
Because women are worth more, according to market value.
Fucken christ. Thank you. Finally I see a female that notices this shit
It will never be 50/50, men are realizing this and not marrying anymore.
If i can't worship You as my Goddess and make Your life better, i don't want You! What is this 50/50 crap? Girls rule, boys drool !
Totally. If i wanted to be alone, id be alone, but i wanna a goddess i can love all the time
Because men are told to cater.
It may be bullshit, but women won't agree to 50/50 because why would they agree to less catering
Supply and demand. It tends to shift later in life.
There is no such thing as 50 50. I get your point though and I agree with you.
It isn't.. it just depends on the couple. For me, I'd like it 50/50.
She should do the housework and have sex when I want and I should work and earn money and get laid when I want to.
Troll
@Emperorxxxemilio not a troll just because you disagree
Just trying to get a rise out of people, acting like you seriously have that opinion. Why be anonymous?
Hear hear to the troll! Put them back in the kitchen! ...
Fuck off fool
If I got a girl it better be 50/0. I’m not about to pay for every single thing
our culture tells us the man provides for the woman, i think it should be a partnership
Because men have always been simps and women reward that kind of simp behavior.
you are bringing up great points.
Because girls control the pussy
They always are they demand to be spoiled
There should be more women thinking that way :)
It should be 50/50 but it never is.
You are the real feminist that the world needs
Your right
50 / 50
I don't know why
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