Whats worse, treating someone like an ATM or treating someone like a sex object?

[Tiffanytrans]

An ATM is still an object people.

An atm is WORSE because the ATM gets nothing out of it.

Being treated as a sex object is worse because im a feminist and i hate men.

Updates

+1 y

Sex is an act and you can do it again.

[OfMiceandMen]

If she was using me as a sex object and that was agreed upon from the beginning, then it is what it is. I know I would not do that to someone else.

As for the whole ATM/Sugar Daddy thing, I am not into giving away my money just because someone is attractive. Bye... bye, if you want to be arm candy and get paid for it. Go leach off someone else.

[Tiffanytrans]

Here's the difference. During the act of being defrauded out of your money a man does not feel good about it. A man pays for the first date is doing so not because he enjoys it, but rather because he MUST.

A woman only feels bad AFTER the fact. During the act she feels great.
Both men and women do not want to be used for sex.
Most men wouldn't mind it. If were going to weigh morality off of majority opinion (which i dont) but if we were then most people view being used for money as worse.

[Billlewis]

I know this probably sounds ridiculous but I absolutely love it when a beautiful woman uses me for money without any possibility of letting me have sex with her.

[Tiffanytrans]

Your wife's boyfriend probably appreciates that.

[Billlewis]

They certainly do... lol!

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Neither is good obv. Manipulation, lying, etc.

But money is an object, & u can get more of it.

[Tiffanytrans]

Sex is an act and you can do it again.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Ya but is an act w urself. N urself isn't an object. U can't take back an action. That's just how I see it.

[Tiffanytrans]

Defrauding someone out of their money is an action. And therefore you can't take that back either.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Money isn't an action lol

[Tiffanytrans]

Getting money is an action, and so is defrauding someone out of their money.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Yea but MONEY isn't an action. It's an object. So taking/earning money is an act w an /object/. But sex is an act w /urself/, who isn't an object it's ur fucking own self. Ur person. You. You as a human are more important than an object (money)—even a lot of objects (money). U understand that? What is done to U matters more than what is done to objects. Both matter, but you matter MORE. On the basic level. Do u know that?

[Tiffanytrans]

Yeah but your vagina isn't an action. Its an object. So, having sex is an act with an object. But taking money is an act w/urself, who isn't an object its ur fucking own self. Ur. Person You. You human are more important than an object (vagina)- even a lot of objects (boobs). U understand that? What is done to U (stealing money) matters mre than what is done to objects. Both matter, but you matter MORE. On the basic level. Do u know that?

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Bro i can't help u if u don't understand that ur physical body is part of ur person, and ur possessions/property are not. U know like, the difference btwn assault and robbery? The difference between destruction of property & murder? Ur a fucking idiot or a fucking liar. 🙄

[Tiffanytrans]

Bro I can't help u if u dont understand that your hair is only a part of u, not u. If a single hair falls out that hair is not "you". Both atheists and theists agree on this, your body simply "belongs" to you just like PROPERTY. Ur a fucking idiot or a fucking liar.

Taking money is an action, just like having sex is an action. PERIOD.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Ok so ur a fucking liar.

U know damn well I said "part of ur person" and yes a hair is part of ur person. WAY more than a penny is. A penny is property, someone steals it from u that's robbery. A hair is part of ur person, if someone steals hair from ur head that's fucking assault. We know based on common sense the diff btwn physical body & property. This ain't got shit to do w beliefs. This is just facts. people "have" bodies in an obviously different way than they "have" property. If u take away all their property they don't just fucking DIE.

[Tiffanytrans]

Ok, so ur a fucking liar.

U also know damn well i said "part of ur person" And yes a hair is a part of a person, and NOT a person.
A strand of hair on the ground is property, someone steals it from u, thats theft. If someone steals a penny from you, thats also theft. A barber who picks the hair from the ground after he cuts it is NOT assault. We know this based on common sense. This ain't got shit to do w beliefs. This is just facts. Of COURSE not all property is equal, but you know what, hair is still PROPERTY.
If you take away ALL, "ALL" ALL property. (which includes your body) Guess what, THEY FUCKING DIE.

Again. Taking money and having sex are BOTH ACTIONS.
PERIOD.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Part of is PART of & I specifically said take hair "from ur head" not from the ground wtf are u on rn? & bffr ur vagina not detachable. Anyone even TOUCH that shit w/out ur permission that's assault. U can't do loophole technicalities w that like u can w hair cuz u can't cut that shit off from the rest of ur body. Go ahead. TRY and twist it to say that grabbing someone's purse is the same thing as grabbing their pussy. I'm about sick of ur bullshit.

[Tiffanytrans]

Part of is a PART of. So it stops becoming yours, once you remove it from your body? So great. Cut your arm off and then you have no rights to it? HAAAAAAAA You aren't allowed to have the doctor reteach it. WTF are u on rn?

Ur vagina isn't detachable? FALSE. Learn science. It's called a total vaginectomy. A radical vaginectomy is removal of the vagina along with the supporting tissues around it.

Anyone that touches the hair on the ground without your permission isn't ASSAULT. Its not. This is common sense.
Touching a REMOVED vagina on the ground without your permission isn't ASSAULT. This is not a loophole technicality. Go ahead. TRY and twist it to say that grabbing the vagina on the ground isn't the same as grabbing someones purse. Im about sick of ur bullshit.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Ok that one was my fault bc I dared u to twist it but u know ur just shitting out ur ass now right? YOUR question was if it's worse to treat someone like an ATM or a sex object. ATM would be taking their money. Sex object would be taking sex. We agree both are actions. We agree both are bad.

What I can't figure out is how you think sex doesn't involve the person mote than money does. Humans can own money, but money itself isn't part of the person. When you have sex tho, that involves basically the whole body. A lot of the body at least. Sure you could surgically remove ur pussy for someone to fuck but, I think we can also agree that's not what u meant when u said sex object. You didn't mean that did you? You meant having sex with someone who still has their genitals attached to their body right? Like u meant having sex with a person, not with a person's disassembled body parts?

[Tiffanytrans]

Agreed. Its your fault because you moved the goalpost. YOUR defense was sex object was worse "BECAUSE" physical body is part of ur person, and ur possessions/property are not. Now that I've demonstrated the vagina is essentially YOUR POSSESSION. You moved the goalposts. Thats fine.

What i can't figure out is how you think making money doesn't involve the person MORE than the single act of sex does. Generally, it takes hours and multiple people to generate and exchange sex. Multiple people are involved, from the creation of money, to the storage of money to the distribution of money. To all the emotional toil it takes to make it AT EACH STAGE.
You're comparing that to the average time it takes for sex is 5.4 minutes. 5 minutes! With only 2 people in general.
No. Thats exactly what i meant, and you knew thats exactly what i meant. The whole reason being used as a sex object is bad is because you feel like you're nothing but a vagina.
In the same way the man is nothing but an ATM. This idea that "well, the entire ATM needs to function in order to dispurse money, so you're technially NEEDING the motherboard, electricity and not just the flap that disperses cash... IS MOOT.
Technically you're using the ENTIRE ATM not just the HOLE that ejects cash.

[Tiffanytrans]

"enerally, it takes hours and multiple people to generate and exchange sex. "
I meant generate cash.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

So u think sex is less personal than money because... it's harder to make money than have sex? That can't be right. It only takes 2 seconds and a gun to kill someone, but even u wouldn't say that that makes killing someone less bad than stealing money from them. So i mist have not understood your actual reasoning. Could you explain again more simply please? Why do you think taking money from someone is worse than taking sex from them?

[Tiffanytrans]

Its not just more personal because its harder. Its more personal because by definition it REQUIRES more "persons."
It requires more time between persons.
It often requires more personal actions in order to attain money. And it requires more emotional toll than sex. How do we know this? Because even if all things are equal (theyre not) If you take 2 lesbians, 1 in which uses sex work in order to get money, and the other lesbian uses her for her money. Now you have that sex worker having the emotional damage of using sex to get money but now being used for money ON TOP of that.

It also can take 1 second to steal billions from someone (with electronic transfer) and it can take hours or even days to kill someone. So what. Thats irrelevant.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

No u don't think it matters more just bc it involves more people. That also applies to murder, that can be w just 2 people. But is still worse to murder someone than use them for money. Sorry to ask again but can u explain please? I don't believe u meant that the way it sounded. Do you rlly think using someone for money is worse than using someone for sex bc sex can involve less people? Or did u mean something else?

[Tiffanytrans]

You'd have to be a pretty heartless person to not take it MORE personally if both your mom and your dad get murdered than just your dad.
Is murder worse than stealing? Yeah. But thats not the question i asked.
Its not "just" because it can involve less people. Thats one aspect.
Stealing once is less bad than stealing twice. Killing one person is less bad than killing two.
Using someone for sex one time is less bad then using them for sex two times.
Numbers matter.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay... so money involves more people (usually), and it is harder to get (usually), and those 2 reasons are enough to make stealing money from someone worse than stealing sex from someone (but don't make either worse than murdering them)? Or is there also a 3rd reason?

[Tiffanytrans]

Using someone for sex is not equal to stealing sex from someone. That would be rape.
In both cases of being used for money and being used for sex, in both cases there's consent involved.
A man feeling obligated to pay for the first date, or being convinced into, or manipulated into giving his money away there's still consent there.
The same thing for a woman regretting having sex with a man 24 hours after finding out he lied about being a doctor.
The difference? here's ANOTHER reason:

Nobody likes being manipulated out of their money both men and women.
Most men if they found out the woman they are sleeping with is doing so just to use his body would feel GREAT about it. On the basis of the golden rule, (putting yourself in the others shoe) its worse by majority opinion to be manipulated out of money.

Another reason is both parties (during the act of sex) enjoyed it (usually).
Its almost never the case men OR WOMEN enjoy someone taking their money.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Regretting it afterwards isn't rape no. And regretting spending money on someone doesn't make it stealing no. Most people enjoy giving gifts to their partner tho, like u don't just spend money on a stranger just bc u feel obligated, that's not a relationship. Using ur s/o for money would be letting (letting) them spend money on you cuz they want to, when rlly u just using them. Like sex would be letting someone have sex with you. Both times obviously thinking that u care about the relationship, they are interacting with someone who cares about them also, which they aren't. That's where the stealing comes in.

If u pretend u love someone and then they give u a gift, bc they want to, that's not technically theft no but I'd call it stealing bc u lied to get it. Same with sex if they only wanted to have sex w u bc they thought u love them, well then that's not technically rape no but I'd call it stealing bc u lied to get sex.

Being coerced, pressured, or shamed into giving money or sex WOULD be stealing tho. Like if u didn't want to pay and they pressured u into paying, that's to me the same as legally stealing. And with sex it is actually rape to pressure or guilt someone to have sex w u, when they don't wanna & u make them feel they have to anyway. Maybe that's why we're not communicating well, bc I'm thinking both using for sex and using for money as being actually consensual, the person WANTS to have sex, they WANT to spend money on them, and it's only the lies that make it so they've been tricked. U seem to be thinking it's only the sex that's consensual, but that to use someone for money you're actually forcing them, pressuring them to spend on u, not just letting them bc they want to. And that's obviously worse bc that's not consensual. But that's not what I was thinking at all when u said using for money.

[Tiffanytrans]

Most people enjoy having sex with their partner tho, like u don't just have sex with a stranger just bc u feel obligated. Everyone who spends money ON A STRANGER does so because they feel obligated. If its a relationship, then that person isn't a stranger. Using ur s/o for money would be letting (letting) them spend money on you cuz they HAVE to. If men could get women without giving money or resources, most women would stay with them? Of course not.

When you're having sex with someone, you're not "letting" them have sex with you, you're enjoying it TOGETHER. What kind of narcissism is that?

Both times, the relationship is irrelevant. If a person is having a one night stand, and he sleeps with her for looks, and she refuses to sleep with him because she wants a free meal, there's no relationship to be had. THEYRE STRANGERS.

Stealing is not equal to regret and its not equal to being manipulated. Sorry. Thats why the word defrauded exists.
Defrauding someone is not the same as stealing. Sorry. Its not.
This is not splitting hairs either.

Stealing sex is rape.
Being defrauded out of sex is not stealing.
Being coerced, pressured, or shamed into giving money or sex WOULD NOT be stealing tho.
Its defrauding.

The difference being, the whole time someone is being defrauded out of their money THEY ARE NOT ENJOYING IT.
Women having sex during the time of the act, ARE.

Defrauding someone into sex is less bad then defrauding someone out of cash.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay I think I got it now. So you're NOT asking whether using someone for sex or money is worse. You're asking whether having regular sex with a stranger is worse than forcing a stranger to give you money. Obviously in that case, forcing someone to give you money is worse. Because it's forced. Duh. Lol

[Tiffanytrans]

No i AM asking that.
In all cases a man spends the money because he feels obligated to. Feeling obligated is not the same thing as being forced.

In the cases where the woman is in a relationship and she is not in the mood and gives up sex to her husband she feels obligated to do it, she's not forced tho.

The differnce in the relationship is, the man isn't getting ANY satisfaction out of it. there's no sexual nerve endings in a mans hand. He's not ejaculating every time he hands money to his wife.
A wife who feels obligated to her husband at least feels something in her sexual nerve endings.

Again, this is not rape, im NOT talking about the times where the husband forces himself on her.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

I'm sorry you've never been with a man who enjoys spending money on you, and who you enjoy spending money on. I guess physical touch is a more popular love language than goft giving tho so it makes sense. 🤷‍♀️

[Tiffanytrans]

If you think spending money on someone is as enjoyable as sex, your sex life must be trash.
Thats the point.
Even the ones that do enjoy giving things to people because they feel a sense pride knowing they are taking care of someone, that does not compare to the feeling of sex. It simply doesn't.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Lol it doesn't have to make you cum to be enjoyable. Not everything in life is boring and stupid except for sex, that would be a very miserable life unless u fuck 24/7 if that were true. I said love languages, so like paying for their meal would feel nice in the way that giving them a hug or telling them they look beautiful feels nice & u hope makes them feel nice too. :)

[Tiffanytrans]

It doesn't have to be more than 1 cent to be enjoyable either. But you pay 1 cent on your wife or date, lets see how happy she is. Lets see how happy a man is with blue balls.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay? What's ur point? My husband collects lucky pennies lol & he loves when I give him one's I find around city. U don't give ur partner things they wouldn't like that's not nice, that doesn't make u feel good does it? Doesn't make me feel good to give him something he won't like.

[Tiffanytrans]

The point is, both giving money and having sex in relative degrees. If someone enjoys giving, the more they do it, typically they more they will like it. The same thing goes for sex. The difference between both of them though is with the SINGLE act of sex there is MORE enjoyment then the single act of giving money.

Lets say even if a person orgasms when he hands someone 20 bucks or he passes out from sheer joy because his brain cannot handle how good he feels from handing someone 20 bucks.. thats an extreme rare example that probably doesn't even exist.

Most people giving money to the other sex are MEN. Most men place more value on sex than giving money as far as enjoyment.
Even though women can enjoy sex without an orgasm, MEN can't. Thats why blue balls is a thing.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

What? What are you even getting at? You're acting like because it's not someone's absolute favorite thing to do that means they can't want to do it and enjoy it. That's justnot true. Just because i like ice cream more than cake doesn't mean I don't like cake. It doesn't mean that don't want cake or wouldn't enjoy cake. Same with activities like swimming or wrestling, or partner shit like gifts and touch and even sex. Liking one more or most doesn't mean that's the only thing you like, and doesn't mean everything that isn't what you like best is therefore bad. That's silly.

As far as the gendering, if you can enjoy sex without organizing that's great. Good for you. That doesn't effect the morality of a situation with a different man or woman. Because men and women aren't all one person, and one person's likes or dislikes don't effect the morality of how you should treat a different person of the same gender. Like my partner enjoying spending money on me doesn't make it any better or worse for some other woman to use some other man for money. That's not how it works.

[Tiffanytrans]

I never said just because its not someones favorite thing to do that it means they can't want to do it or enjoy it. Its about what they like MORE and in relation to what they dislike more.

This whole topic is about degrees of good and bad.
Which is worse, this thing or this other thing.

One persons dislikes or likes DOES effect the morality of how you should treat them. If you slap someone and they dont like it, then its wrong. Sometimes some people like being slapped.

The fact is, most people both men and women behave and like particular things. This is not about everyone, if it were then the question i asked would be pointless.
You have to speak in generalities or you can't speak at all.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Yeah that's exactly what I'm saying! If someone doesn't like something you shouldn't do it /to them./ if a man doesn't like spending money on you you shouldn't try to force him to. If a man does like spending money on you but only because he thinks you both care about each other and rlly you don't care about him, you shouldn't lie about that to him just to get his money. Same with a man and sex. Same with a woman and money and sex. It's about consent and likes n shit. When u say using someone for sex or for money, I assumed u meant the main difference in the situation was what was being gotten by the user. Not whether the person being used liked doing the thing. That makes a huge difference morally, /whether/ they wanted to do it. Not /how much/ they wanted to do it. If you want to have sex it's not rape, no matter /how much/ you want to. U understand that's like a huge difference? Why one being consensual and one not effects my opinion so much which is worse?

[Tiffanytrans]

Being used as an atm even with consent is worse than being used for sex with consent.
Nobody likes being used (consentually) for money, some people like being used for sex.

Even the ones that like being used for money dont like it as much as being used for consentual sex.
Its simply not possible. All things even there's more nerve endings in your vagina and in a mans junk than in their hand when money is taken from them, consent or no consent.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Okay so they ARE both consensual then? It's not the one being pressured or guilted into spending money or anything, they actually just want to, like with the other situation where they actually want to have sex. Is that right?

[Tiffanytrans]

There are degrees of consent. In all degrees of consent its much worse to be used for money. Even if the man enjoys giving money to the woman, the woman can STILL be just using him for his money.
You might think, well whats wrong with that? Dont they both enjoy it?
NO. Because ALL people typically dont do things just because its nice to do. And even if they do (they dont) the woman has no intention to reciprocate ANYTHING.

When a man gives money to a woman, he's thinking "oh this will make her happy and because it will make her happy, i will be happy!" isn't that nice! Except thats not how that works. When a woman is using a man for money she's not changing her behavior at all. Even if she alters it, its an ACT.

[GOLDFISH_smile]

Sorry that's not rlly an answer... are u or are u not talking about both situations are consensual? Not any "degree" of consent, I'm talking full 100% consensual. No gray area, no blurred lines. Firmly 100% consensual—like they WANT TO. Is the question about a person consensually, enthusiastically having sex w someone else vs someone consensually, enthusiastically spending money on someone else (when the someone else doesn't rlly care about them)? That's just the biggest fucking factor to how I'm judging the situation so imma need a clear answer on that please.

[RavVid]

Men treating women as sex objects is the entire basis of guy girl relationships and girls get worried if their guy doesn't. No issue - situation normal.

[slatyb]

Both can be either fine or not depending on what has been promised.

[Anonymous]

I'm fuckboy I don't mind if hot n sexy girl use me like atm if she give me sex in return...

[Tiffanytrans]

Its not being used if you're getting what you want in return.

[Opinion Owner]

It's obvious there is always give n take...

Sorry I'm not fool i mean I'm not in love lol

[gothbxtch]

being treated as a sex object

[Tiffanytrans]

Tell that to all modern women who shake their bums on Instagram and get paid extremely well for it.
Tell that to extremely ugly women who never get even looked at by men.
Tell that to your average man, who would LOVE IT. Funny how, both men and women dont want to be used for money, but almost the entire gender of men wouldn't mind being used as a sex object.

When you're being used for money, is there any good feelings during the act of being defrauded? Yeah, only from the woman. But for the man it sucks.
At least in the moment (were talking in the act of, not later when you found out you were just being used) A woman feels good during it.
A man NEVER "feels good" giving his money away. You think a man feels good paying for the first date? HAAAAAAAAAA
NO. he's doing it because he has to.

[JustinTheGreat]

Neither are okay lol

[Anonymous]

ATM.

[Anonymous]

I say ATM, but both are bad.