Why are so few men into actual courting?

Question

I’m being serious… even Tomi Lahren a few years ago ( not that I’m into her politics ) went on a rant how men treat women badly and just okay games. You can be successful, pretty, and nice. I just don’t get it. Where’s my husband: I’ve been stalked, abused, and ghosted. What’s the point of even trying at this point?

ObscuredBeyond · Accepted Answer

1. When I say what I mean and mean what I say, I get told I can't mean it. And not just by her.

2. When I say I will do X, which is innocent, she'll insist I meant Y. I show up with proof X happened. A whole posse expecting Y gangs up on me. When I show proof of X, they insist in spite of it that I must be guilty of Y somehow anyway, and that X is just a cover up, and arrogantly insist they can know my motives better than I myself know them. If I get angry, I get further Kafkatrapped.

3. When she's in no danger at all, an army shows up anyway, and refuses to believe she cried wolf. When I am in real danger, tough crap. I'm on my own. That, or everyone I can't rely on insists it must be my fault somehow, and that excuses their complete unwillingness to do anything. They just can't ever seem to muster the energy to follow through. When I need them to have my back, there's always an excuse not to.

4. Desire to outsmart the system and win the war makes me lose sight of prior goals. Who's got time for settling down, when you've got rat bastards to humiliate?

5. Families that still do traditional courting can be very impatient and have poor optics. They're even quicker to pass judgment, and pull out the long knives. If they see one tiny thing to indicate I'm not from their exact same mindset and subculture, and feel that justifies treating me like a predator, then I have few qualms about walking away, skipping town, and letting an actual predator eat them. They have no right to complain that I wasn't around to save them. Especially since I already tried once, and they made their ingratitude quite clear.

blueonblack22 · Accepted Answer

It’s about the investment vs the potential return for men.

Back in the day (when most women actually respected chivalry) a man would court a woman knowing she would respect his time, effort, money, heart, etc.

That doesn’t mean she would always choose him but she sure as hell wouldn’t hook up with some random asshole on a whim just to turn around and confidently friendzone the man who worked his ass off “courting” her. If she did turn him down it would be done very respectfully. She wouldn’t ask something very stupid/insulting like “can we still be friends”. She would most likely marry the other guy she choose over the guy. She would put the mental effort into understanding what the man went through trying to court her.

But feminism has really screwed this all up. It’s taught women that chivalry is “sexist” or even worse a sign of weakness. It’s told women to indulge “their truth” (first thought that crosses their mind) which can be a huge risk for the man if he isn’t “her truth”.

So you need to ask yourself what is in it for the man to do this? Sure you can blame men for just only wanting sex (true but NOT always true). But also you need to seriously consider what he is expected to do and the big risk he is facing if things don’t work out.

Truth is I am very much for men doing this the old school way. That’s how things should be. But when a man does this and doesn’t work out for him (or worse gets exploited) it’s takes a lot of him. Much more out of him than most women will ever realize.

So try to see things from the man’s POV nowadays considering what he is up against in modern culture.

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

Because men think women are into same things as them, they don't understand basic female anatomy and what turns us on - like courting. They think that is a BS excuse that women use just to get attention, free dates, etc. (some do) but fail to realize it is a neccessery act to get us going. It's a hard work sometimes, so most just give up because either they are lazy or bitter or out of resources/skills. It's like expecting a plant to grow without watering it. Most men really just don't have any clue what they are supposed to do, they don't understand women and female sexuality at all, so they hate and blame women due to their own lackiness.

Beckybooboo · Accepted Answer

I’ve been fortunate, I guess. My last two boyfriends were wonderful when it came to treating me good. My ex basically supported me while I was going through college and I was just working part time. We had our own place, so I contributed very little (money wise) but he never complained but I always felt extremely guilty, especially when I broke up with him. I told him when I get a job, I’ll try to pay some money back but he refused. My current boyfriend treats me well too.

OlderAndWiser · Answer

I would be your man, except

1. I am engaged to a wonderful woman who I love very dearly, and

2. I am about 40 years too old for you.

But I am a romantic and when I date a woman, she knows she is being courted.

coachTanthony · Answer

Many men your age are now looking at women and saying , well their you go you fought to be equal so no more courting, no more chivarly, no more courting. As if every woman signed a contract for new wave feminism to speak for every woman on the planet.

ManOnFire · Answer

This is not true. Men do still try to court women, but many of the women don't want them because they want guys they can try to fix, or men they think are real men because they throw their weight around and disrespect others. Then after they've failed at doing that enough, they want the guys they turned down before, but most went on to marry someone else.

Avicenna · Answer

Because so many women don't appreciate it or even seem to want it, plus many people try to get what they want with minimum effort.

NamerOfStars · Answer

Because better communications techniques and technologies made the mass of ordinary men realize what a lousy deal they were getting, and they renegotiated the social contract.

Courting, in the sense you're referring to, is a relic of conspicuous consumption in its ultimate form; a society that was SO wealthy that it could have half its population (among the nobility, at least) do essentially nothing. Think of the story of the princess and the pea: here you have a young woman who can not only feel a single pea placed beneath multiple mattresses she's sleeping on, but cannot even sleep properly because of it. How, exactly, is such a woman going to handle pregnancy? I'd say "child rearing", but of course she DOESN'T have to do that; she has servants to handle that. But a pregnancy would probably kill her. Still, she's in possession of whatever deemed the most valuable of feminine instincts, and so is the most suitable match.

Now what, pray tell, are YOU doing to find your husband? You claim to be "successful, pretty, and nice". Okay, but what are you DOING? You're not going to find him if all you do is sit around trying to be appealing and wait for him to show up. Are you approaching guys and starting conversations (not hitting on them, necessarily, mind)? Seeking out specific men? Letting friends and family know you're looking and asking if they know anyone eligible?

If not, then you're asking the wrong question; it's not what's the point of even trying, because you're NOT trying- you're swatting flies with a machine gun, and complaining that it isn't working.

smne35 · Answer

Don't give up there are men who still hold to traditional ways, who take the time to court you, get to know you treat à lady as one should always treat her, romance her, respectfully always, on the flip side most women are not wanting to be treated with since due respect, tater want to open their own doors not want they're seat pulled for they to sit, liberated they say and independent thank you I can open my own door excuse me please, had a women actually get upset cause I he'd the door open for her as she exited the building, I just said your very welcome my lady and chuckled as I went in my way but women can't have it both ways want to be seen as equal and I'm good with that, but demand you recognize that they don't need anything from a man, to which I reply yes you do if you plan on being a mom,, lol I had to keep going, saying you can pump all the testosterone you want in you but in the end you still need a real man for that miracle to occur, she laughed saw the humor and turned it to be a pleasant evening, but don't lose hope we do exist, speaking for myself who remain a gentleman always, care to join me for dinner one evening soon,?

Anonymous · Answer

It's funny you say this, because guys say the exact SAME thing. Why bother courting a woman?

There was a time when women would signal men thier interest in being approached and the "dance" would begin. But ask the average guy today and they'll tell you. 9 times out of 10 the woman signals the man and it's everything but that anymore. Sometimes she just wants attention, sometimes she's bored, sometimes she's killing time, sometimes she's just practicing. Point is, it's like the girl who cried wolf. Most guys aren't buying her intentions anymore. Most guys aren't even taking her intentions into consideration anymore because it's such a craps shoot.

Now couple this with the other factor. There was a time when a guy had to actually earn a woman. A man had to actually take the time to get to know her, learn everything about her before she jumped into bed with him. Not today! I know you think I'm insulting you, I'm not i don't even know you. But I AM saying too many of your gender does this. And why would a guy pay for something he can get for free elsewhere? Sorry, but that is the SAD REALITY of it.

Women make the rules and men react to them. You want men to change, your gender as a whole has to start changing. Your gender doesn't want to do that? Expect this to continue.

You're welcome.🙂

RavVid · Answer

Women, collectively, have made it unrewarding. That is not to say some some aren't rewarding but collectively they aren't.

Tinder data shows women have no interest in about 80% of men so there is no point in those men attempting to gain interest from girls. The other 20% of men simply don't have to because the effective sex ratio is 5 girls for every guy.

During that period when there was courting, there was about the same number boys and girls in a town. So it was more like top boy pairs up with top girl and so on down the chain. Once the top boy is paired up every girl had to down grade her expectations.

With electronic dating that real world constraint is no longer in place

HiveBee · Answer

Because men have been red pilled. Courting is merely a selection process where some men succeed and others are rejected continuously.

Its just a fact. The women will say "well, 50% of men are undateable."

Either way, men are checked out. We only want sex now because we know no woman wants the majority of us.

Maybe that's due to their actual undateability. Maybe it's due to biologically designed female choice which relegated the majority of men as unattractive.

I don't know which one is the truth but it seems to me most men believe the biological argument. Most women believe the feminist "most men are trapped in the patriarchal mind virus."

It is what it is I guess.

jshm2 · Answer

More to the point, why do YOU think you deserve anything more than what you've put in? Any time r/nicegirls like you start ranting online, you'll give only your sanitised version of the story. That you even consider the words of an insect like Tomi Lahren tells me all I need to know about your mental disabilities.

Guys don't want to court people like you, as you're not worth it. That is what you fail to understand. Shit rolled in glitter - is still mostly shit, regardless of how you market it.

If you want a different outcome for your life, stop being a Tomi Lahren wannabee.

SereneScribe3 · Answer

Because the culture of women waiting around to be chosen by men is sexist, outdated and impractical.

We no longer live in a world where it is reasonable to assume that all unmarried women are available, and have tacitly agreed to being approached by men.

People now have higher standards when it comes to personal boundaries, and communicating interest clearly and respectfully.

We also have more equal, social interaction which provides far more opportunities to meet potential partners.

I think that all of this is great. It is far more inclusive, and less constrained than patriarchal, heteronormative courtship rituals.

Flatmanlewis · Answer

I think society has devalued many of the traditional and often beneficial roles men & women once were comfortable with.

Speaking to some young men at my workplace they seriously have no idea what women want from a man anymore. It’s an impossible situation and I suspect women will have to start adjusting their expectations.

I think men WANT to court their woman but women (so I’m told) have a weird habit of turning their every move, date, and feeling into a social media post or story.

Men who court expect some kind of reciprocal behavior from women too.

HawkPerception · Answer

I feel like western women's standards nowadays are just too high of men and they're egotistical and have none of the traits a guy wants in a girl. I'm not saying every western girl is like that, but the majority are.

There's a relatively new term being thrown around recently on social media called "passport bros". And honestly, I consider myself a passport bro. Here are some videos on it if you're curious:

https://youtube. com/shorts/VRSjJtVOuEk? si=DK8dk0Z31wYunpC0
https://youtu. be/N6IPbolCdsM? si=LmU_wh-xWQJVK8i_

HighValue · Answer

Women shouldn't expect traditional treatment from men unless she is a traditional woman herself (past, morals, reactions to interactions, etc.) And there are so FEW women like that, how is a man supposed to know? Magically read her mind?

If the woman isn't a virgin waiting until marriage, with no tattoos, and no college loan debt, she isn't traditional.

Plus, the MAJORITY of women financially abuse men and treat them like an ATM, especially the ones that use a man to put her through college and then end the relationship. Just a bunch of abusive thieves.

mobiusforniner · Answer

Because a lot of boys grew up entitled and are accustomed to instant gratification. It’s embedded in the culture. The end goal is sex, like your body is some kind of prize to conquer or win; and a lot of boys will take the path of least resistance to get there. The so called feminist movement empowers girls to feel they are worth more than just a night in the sack and, not surprisingly we find the same boys irritated and frustrated that girls have a choice in finding a man who best suits them

case in point, my mother in law told my eight year old son how wonderful he is to be the power and the force of righteousness while telling my three year old daughter she’s a temptress and serves to beguile men. When questioned, my mother in law said this is the way God ordained roles for men and women

fuck tradition.

Kaamraj · Answer

In one word, it's  unrewarding  for men. This is very nearly 2024 and not even 1990. Today women have more choice than ever before with social media the sexual market place being globalized and nearly every woman who is average thinks that she's a 9 or 10. Swiping patterns from dating apps clearly show that female swiping patterns are highly skewed with most men being unattractive to most women. Most men are coming to the conclusion that participating in the courting ritual is akin to using 1950s social norms in 2023 which is hurtful to their finances, time and mental health.

ProbablyClueless · Answer

Without turning this into a "men versus women" kind of post, I'd say that so few men are into courting women because so few of us have pleasant experiences doing it. Even if a man doesn't get laid at the end of the night, he can still have a fantastic experience courting women who actually appreciate the effort. Unfortunately, so few women do appreciate that effort (and actually, there are a lot of women out there who actively resent and belittle us for putting in the effort) and that makes it pretty tough to get excited about putting in the work.

Why would I put on airs for someone who is extremely likely to look at what I'm doing as a reason to talk shit on me with her friends?

SotiCoto · Answer

Because it is a pain in the arse.
From what I've seen, ladies tend to value a man's ability to go through hardships for her... but that doesn't mean men enjoy those hardships. It is a cost / benefit thing. And more often these days it is regarded as not being worth the effort.
Plus it is worth keeping in mind that girls are pickier than ever before now. The cost of investing time and effort in someone only to end in failure is going up all the time. So men are less willing to expend the effort on what will most likely be a waste... and so the ladies in turn get more sick and tired of low-effort men and get even pickier.

Long story short, we're probably all better off alone at this point.

Friendlybro79 · Answer

The point in trying is that there young and that it's 2024 pretty much. Old traditional values are dying and men are being raised to treat women as equals. Reading so many posts here over the years makes me think that courting a woman is dying out because of how gender roles have changed a lot.

You still have some women and men that are these older traditions as important but you have a lot of men losing more than women (on avg) in divorces, living expenses so high that people get married much later, and some people just don't want to be married anymore.

Regarding men treating women badly. Many women treat men badly too. People just don't always treat each other nicely period. That's unfortunate but true. You're 27 so don't worry. Things will get better.

Anonymous · Answer

Yeah. Often we wake up in the morning with an erection. My girlfriend has said she's reached over in the middle of the night to find I'm fully erect.

When I was first with my girlfriend I was having erections problems related to anxiety, stress, a bereavement and fear of performance issues that lasted about a month. Viagra didn't seem to help. Also we were trying late in the night. One time after we tried and failed we fell asleep naked together cuddling with her the little spoon and me the big spoon. So somewhere in the middle of the night around 5am I'm hard and she's awoken to being penetrated in her sleep and me humping her sideways still asleep and she just goes with it. So she wakes me up by sucking on my very hard erect penis at 8am on a Sunday

DarkWinterNights · Answer

Because the culture destroyed it. Regardless of intentions. Dating Apps, MeToo, entertainment and media, feminism, red pill, pornography and politics drastically changed social dynamics and made dating into a superficial game and a competition. Love, family and monogamy are only kept on life support by older generations.

pethouse · Answer

Sorry to hear that you’ve been stalked, cheated and abused.

I think one of the reasons why men won’t “court” is because they don’t want to deal with the consequences. Put yourself in a guys shoes for a second. You find a woman and you get married. A few years later you get divorced and she takes half of everything you got. Plus depending on where you live she can also get alimony as well.
When you get divorced you have to go to a legal system and men normally get more punishment than women do.

hahahmm · Answer

Because women decided to devalue traditional masculinity & worked hard to do that. So now even guys who know how to be traditional are not going to do that for you unless you're traditional yourself. Women want to be non traditional but get all the benefits of traditional relationships from men. Men aren't having it!! Our wallets, our choice. Our time, our choice.

Anonymous · Answer

Men have given up 'courting' because they do not see any women out there worth courting, and everywhere they look, TV, Films , Main Stream Media, all are putting men down, along with women telling men to "Go Away" & "Leave Us Alone", so the vast majority of men have take you at your word and done just that.

Have you ever thought that its women who are a large part the problem here? You go one about how men treat women "women badly and just okay games" as though we are just parts of one organism, have you ever considered that its your dating choices in the men you date, you say " I’ve been stalked, abused, and ghosted.", that is down to the men you've chosen to date not men as a whole.

Anonymous · Answer

Because men are forced to be the ones to escalate and court when the woman who may or may not want to be courted does little to nothing but sit there and look pretty.

Not every woman, but most just expect men to make all the moves while they display “signs” that are more often than not as obvious as a recently washed window.

Plus social media. I lose a lot of interest in women who show off their whole bodies on the internet for attention and validation/ post anti men bullshit so I'm also not gonna pursue A LOT of women because of that.

Anonymous · Answer

The majority of women are giving their body, soul, time, energy and attention to bad men. Only an utter fool would court a woman knowing that. I do not pursue women... I completely walked away from all of that decades ago. A lot of guys are done.

antelope51 · Answer

Because "courting" is a game made up by women. And men aren't interested in social games the way women are. They will tolerate a certain amount of it to get laid, but that's really their ultimate goal. Even the "nice guys," their primal instinct is to find someone to have their kids, not to play childish head-games with.

AlphaMale1 · Answer

I met a woman on a dating site who, after getting to know her, told me she sees men as a means to free food and shelter.
There are women that see the gash in her crotch as something they know most men desire and most men will sacrifice their relationships, family, business, financial and moral future for while they have their power-filled fun.

wolfcat87 · Answer

Sounds like you're going after the wrong men or not attracting the kind who court... There are definitely a ton out there. I've never had a problem finding them. What kind of men are you going after?

JacobJordan · Answer

You can thank feminism for this. Unironically not a joke. A small minority of very loud women have basically destroyed everything nice men did for women. Courting, gifts, holding the door, opening a car door, marriage, relationships, etc... reality is most guys are tired of dealing with that level of toxicity and since we can't tell which woman is going to have that we just avoid them all or go elsewhere where traditional women are more prevalent

Fireguy17 · Answer

Fortunately I haven't had to date for a while, but it was a lot of work.

Women would use you for a free meal, or because they didn't want to dine alone before their real date, their pictures online were so out of date it was hard to recognize them when you met them, some played all sorts of games, which I don't play at all.

You either like me or you don't. At that point I'm gone.

Granted, not all women are like that, but I ran into a number of them over the years.

RingOfFire · Answer

Sounds like a really bad experience. You are an attractive girl, you would think that you have enough choices that you can pick the right man out of the crowd of suiters.

Maybe you need to look at yourself more closely and ask yourself why you are unable to separate the right guys from the wrong.

genericname85 · Answer

in a society where male behavior is labeled "toxic" and any traditional way to approach women have been invalidated by calling it "creepy" or "sexual assault", how do you expect to court women?

like you've been stalked and abused. that's what "traditional male courtship behavior" is labeled these days... tho i assume you use these words according to what they actually mean unlike modern society.

DextroShade · Answer

You want to be courted, meaning you want the traditional treatment from a gentleman but are you a traditional lady? Have you ever had a one-night stand or fling? Why should a decent traditional man court you like a sucker when you gave it up to Chad in one night? Also, do you want to be a traditional wife and homemaker or does your career come first?

Kevin Samuels said it best: "These women want traditional men but they aren't traditional women."

JHAYES317 · Answer

Courting was back when men were the sole providers and women were housewives…both the economy and women joining the workforce has made courting logistically and logically implausible. Not saying it never happens…but why would I pay for everything in a girl’s life if she has her own job? That makes zero sense.

Vegasrunner · Answer

It always amazes me how women just don't get it. The main reason why men aren't into "courting" is because there is absolutely nothing in it FOR THEM you claim that women can be

Successful - Men don't care about your Success

Pretty - Men decide how attractive you are

Nice - Subjective term that means nothing w/out context.

You've claim you've been stalked abused and ghosted, ok well if that's the case what did you do?

Nikki1989 · Answer

Most modern are weak, whiny, and are brainwashed by the trash they read online, especially dating sites and apps. It has made them clueless. Read below for further proof.

grega239 · Answer

Because women said we ate equals.

Because courting is an outdated patriarchal practice.

Because there are examples of men being accused of sexual harrassement when they tried to court a woman.

I can keep going but you get the point.

You want to blame someone, blame your fellow. Women

Guido · Answer

Today a lot of people are just looking for sex with no strings and if they can get that without a relationshi then why bother courting a woman.

If you want to be courted, quit casual sex and insist in being taken on a date. Find an older man with values. We exist and are very good at courting.

Light_beam · Answer

Ask yourself why ! Men sexualize women and women actually help them to do that.. Men are treating women the same way they treat other men and women asked for that, and actually acting like men themselves.. you reap what you saw.. don't come and moan about it now.. I live in a society where we still like to do chivalry and women here still like it and ask for it.. we always think about marriage.. it is the norm here

nawtee_me · Answer

Courting takes work and guys these days don’t want to put in that effort and most would not even know how to court a girl. To them chivalry is dead and something their grandfather did. Maybe they think it is something they have to go to the doctor and get treated for.
If you want to be courted them find an older guy. I and I think most older men would be hindered to find a girl who wanted to be courted and even thought that way.

Anonymous · Answer

Guys aren't gonna court and prove themselves to a girl that's unworthy, a girl that's had hookups and friends with benefits in her past. Girls that don't look to settle for some guy when they turned 30 instead of their best years. Simple, most guys have given up the fantasy of finding a worthy girl after seeing what's out there and seeing what's online.

Alwayreckles93 · Answer

Well only the smart mature men into their 40s are. Men our age do not appreciate traditional woman because satan has them blindfolded.

BourbonAndBacon · Answer

Nice guys court and many western women view nice guys as boring. It's easier to date if you have a bit of an edge, a naughty side. Speaking from experience, nice guys do much better with immigrants or overseas where courting is expected

Anonymous · Answer

Most women date bad boys when they are younger. Men started to realize that those behaviors attracted more women and changed themselves. Mostly older women start looking for good guys to settle with. By that time the pool of those men is very low and many lose interest in dating, they know by that time women only see them as settling material after having fun.

Joshydavid25 · Answer

If that's all you've ran into so far.. Then I question what type of guys you find yourself attracted to or latch onto.. Sometimes looking at ourselves first is the best course of action.. Good women know who to attract good men..

Anonymous · Answer

A lot of men have high standards for women and think they’re the prize. We should just become lesbians.

BoopBoopBeep · Answer

When's the last time you baked low fat protein muffins for the guy you like to have during his morning workouts?

NathanDavis · Answer

you only need one though...  so, few are more than enough

Ms_Facesitter · Answer

Because they have also been stalked, abused, cheated on, ... . I don't think they don't Want to court. They are just more careful about who they invest their time and energy in.

exitseven · Answer

Guys see girls on social, media that do not expect courting or even civil behavior. They just meet on line and hook up. Then the girls get mad afterwards when they get ghosted.

deus_ex_sisyphus · Answer

I think its a mix of men wanting to court, but they never go out of their way to meet the women/make the first move. Also, a lot of girls want to date the idea of a man rather than the man courting her / he can't live up to her expectations.

LiamJHayden · Answer

At least half of your fellow ladies are willing to "give it up" by a third date with next to no effort, so if  that  is all those guys really want why would they work harder than necessary?

tiajoka · Answer

Because even the men who claim go want traditional women don't want to put in the effort it takes to be traditional themselves. There are some, but really only at church and even those need to be filtered.

Booklover_90 · Answer

Don’t give up on love. I know it’s hard in this hookup culture, but there are men out there who still believe in love and commitment.

lightbulb27 · Answer

Males are too weak, poorly trained and lack esteem relative to women. Too many women corrupt men.

LeeTina · Answer

Because everyone in today's society is very busy.

Amara_09 · Answer

I am a woman and into courting…………. unfortunately I despise men

LazerBean · Answer

It just sounds like you attract the wrong kind of men, I never had that problem.

Redstang88 · Answer

Because that’s what works on most women. I’ve had multiple girls straight up tell me I needed to play games to keep them interested

Why are so few men into actual courting?

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Why are so few men into actual courting?

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