It’s about the investment vs the potential return for men.
Back in the day (when most women actually respected chivalry) a man would court a woman knowing she would respect his time, effort, money, heart, etc.
That doesn’t mean she would always choose him but she sure as hell wouldn’t hook up with some random asshole on a whim just to turn around and confidently friendzone the man who worked his ass off “courting” her. If she did turn him down it would be done very respectfully. She wouldn’t ask something very stupid/insulting like “can we still be friends”. She would most likely marry the other guy she choose over the guy. She would put the mental effort into understanding what the man went through trying to court her.
But feminism has really screwed this all up. It’s taught women that chivalry is “sexist” or even worse a sign of weakness. It’s told women to indulge “their truth” (first thought that crosses their mind) which can be a huge risk for the man if he isn’t “her truth”.
So you need to ask yourself what is in it for the man to do this? Sure you can blame men for just only wanting sex (true but NOT always true). But also you need to seriously consider what he is expected to do and the big risk he is facing if things don’t work out.
Truth is I am very much for men doing this the old school way. That’s how things should be. But when a man does this and doesn’t work out for him (or worse gets exploited) it’s takes a lot of him. Much more out of him than most women will ever realize.
So try to see things from the man’s POV nowadays considering what he is up against in modern culture.
1. When I say what I mean and mean what I say, I get told I can't mean it. And not just by her.
2. When I say I will do X, which is innocent, she'll insist I meant Y. I show up with proof X happened. A whole posse expecting Y gangs up on me. When I show proof of X, they insist in spite of it that I must be guilty of Y somehow anyway, and that X is just a cover up, and arrogantly insist they can know my motives better than I myself know them. If I get angry, I get further Kafkatrapped.
3. When she's in no danger at all, an army shows up anyway, and refuses to believe she cried wolf. When I am in real danger, tough crap. I'm on my own. That, or everyone I can't rely on insists it must be my fault somehow, and that excuses their complete unwillingness to do anything. They just can't ever seem to muster the energy to follow through. When I need them to have my back, there's always an excuse not to.
4. Desire to outsmart the system and win the war makes me lose sight of prior goals. Who's got time for settling down, when you've got rat bastards to humiliate?
5. Families that still do traditional courting can be very impatient and have poor optics. They're even quicker to pass judgment, and pull out the long knives. If they see one tiny thing to indicate I'm not from their exact same mindset and subculture, and feel that justifies treating me like a predator, then I have few qualms about walking away, skipping town, and letting an actual predator eat them. They have no right to complain that I wasn't around to save them. Especially since I already tried once, and they made their ingratitude quite clear.
Because men think women are into same things as them, they don't understand basic female anatomy and what turns us on - like courting. They think that is a BS excuse that women use just to get attention, free dates, etc. (some do) but fail to realize it is a neccessery act to get us going. It's a hard work sometimes, so most just give up because either they are lazy or bitter or out of resources/skills. It's like expecting a plant to grow without watering it. Most men really just don't have any clue what they are supposed to do, they don't understand women and female sexuality at all, so they hate and blame women due to their own lackiness.
I’ve been fortunate, I guess. My last two boyfriends were wonderful when it came to treating me good. My ex basically supported me while I was going through college and I was just working part time. We had our own place, so I contributed very little (money wise) but he never complained but I always felt extremely guilty, especially when I broke up with him. I told him when I get a job, I’ll try to pay some money back but he refused. My current boyfriend treats me well too.
Opinion
83Opinion
u I would be your man, except
1. I am engaged to a wonderful woman who I love very dearly, and
2. I am about 40 years too old for you.
But I am a romantic and when I date a woman, she knows she is being courted.
Many men your age are now looking at women and saying , well their you go you fought to be equal so no more courting, no more chivarly, no more courting. As if every woman signed a contract for new wave feminism to speak for every woman on the planet.
This is not true. Men do still try to court women, but many of the women don't want them because they want guys they can try to fix, or men they think are real men because they throw their weight around and disrespect others. Then after they've failed at doing that enough, they want the guys they turned down before, but most went on to marry someone else.
Because so many women don't appreciate it or even seem to want it, plus many people try to get what they want with minimum effort.
Because better communications techniques and technologies made the mass of ordinary men realize what a lousy deal they were getting, and they renegotiated the social contract.
Courting, in the sense you're referring to, is a relic of conspicuous consumption in its ultimate form; a society that was SO wealthy that it could have half its population (among the nobility, at least) do essentially nothing. Think of the story of the princess and the pea: here you have a young woman who can not only feel a single pea placed beneath multiple mattresses she's sleeping on, but cannot even sleep properly because of it. How, exactly, is such a woman going to handle pregnancy? I'd say "child rearing", but of course she DOESN'T have to do that; she has servants to handle that. But a pregnancy would probably kill her. Still, she's in possession of whatever deemed the most valuable of feminine instincts, and so is the most suitable match.
Now what, pray tell, are YOU doing to find your husband? You claim to be "successful, pretty, and nice". Okay, but what are you DOING? You're not going to find him if all you do is sit around trying to be appealing and wait for him to show up. Are you approaching guys and starting conversations (not hitting on them, necessarily, mind)? Seeking out specific men? Letting friends and family know you're looking and asking if they know anyone eligible?
If not, then you're asking the wrong question; it's not what's the point of even trying, because you're NOT trying- you're swatting flies with a machine gun, and complaining that it isn't working.
Don't give up there are men who still hold to traditional ways, who take the time to court you, get to know you treat à lady as one should always treat her, romance her, respectfully always, on the flip side most women are not wanting to be treated with since due respect, tater want to open their own doors not want they're seat pulled for they to sit, liberated they say and independent thank you I can open my own door excuse me please, had a women actually get upset cause I he'd the door open for her as she exited the building, I just said your very welcome my lady and chuckled as I went in my way but women can't have it both ways want to be seen as equal and I'm good with that, but demand you recognize that they don't need anything from a man, to which I reply yes you do if you plan on being a mom,, lol I had to keep going, saying you can pump all the testosterone you want in you but in the end you still need a real man for that miracle to occur, she laughed saw the humor and turned it to be a pleasant evening, but don't lose hope we do exist, speaking for myself who remain a gentleman always, care to join me for dinner one evening soon,?
It's funny you say this, because guys say the exact SAME thing. Why bother courting a woman?
There was a time when women would signal men thier interest in being approached and the "dance" would begin. But ask the average guy today and they'll tell you. 9 times out of 10 the woman signals the man and it's everything but that anymore. Sometimes she just wants attention, sometimes she's bored, sometimes she's killing time, sometimes she's just practicing. Point is, it's like the girl who cried wolf. Most guys aren't buying her intentions anymore. Most guys aren't even taking her intentions into consideration anymore because it's such a craps shoot.
Now couple this with the other factor. There was a time when a guy had to actually earn a woman. A man had to actually take the time to get to know her, learn everything about her before she jumped into bed with him. Not today! I know you think I'm insulting you, I'm not i don't even know you. But I AM saying too many of your gender does this. And why would a guy pay for something he can get for free elsewhere? Sorry, but that is the SAD REALITY of it.
Women make the rules and men react to them. You want men to change, your gender as a whole has to start changing. Your gender doesn't want to do that? Expect this to continue.
You're welcome.🙂
Women, collectively, have made it unrewarding. That is not to say some some aren't rewarding but collectively they aren't.
Tinder data shows women have no interest in about 80% of men so there is no point in those men attempting to gain interest from girls. The other 20% of men simply don't have to because the effective sex ratio is 5 girls for every guy.
During that period when there was courting, there was about the same number boys and girls in a town. So it was more like top boy pairs up with top girl and so on down the chain. Once the top boy is paired up every girl had to down grade her expectations.
With electronic dating that real world constraint is no longer in place
Because men have been red pilled. Courting is merely a selection process where some men succeed and others are rejected continuously.
Its just a fact. The women will say "well, 50% of men are undateable."
Either way, men are checked out. We only want sex now because we know no woman wants the majority of us.
Maybe that's due to their actual undateability. Maybe it's due to biologically designed female choice which relegated the majority of men as unattractive.
I don't know which one is the truth but it seems to me most men believe the biological argument. Most women believe the feminist "most men are trapped in the patriarchal mind virus."
It is what it is I guess.
More to the point, why do YOU think you deserve anything more than what you've put in? Any time r/nicegirls like you start ranting online, you'll give only your sanitised version of the story. That you even consider the words of an insect like Tomi Lahren tells me all I need to know about your mental disabilities.
Guys don't want to court people like you, as you're not worth it. That is what you fail to understand. Shit rolled in glitter - is still mostly shit, regardless of how you market it.
If you want a different outcome for your life, stop being a Tomi Lahren wannabee.
Because the culture of women waiting around to be chosen by men is sexist, outdated and impractical.
We no longer live in a world where it is reasonable to assume that all unmarried women are available, and have tacitly agreed to being approached by men.
People now have higher standards when it comes to personal boundaries, and communicating interest clearly and respectfully.
We also have more equal, social interaction which provides far more opportunities to meet potential partners.
I think that all of this is great. It is far more inclusive, and less constrained than patriarchal, heteronormative courtship rituals.
I think society has devalued many of the traditional and often beneficial roles men & women once were comfortable with.
Speaking to some young men at my workplace they seriously have no idea what women want from a man anymore. It’s an impossible situation and I suspect women will have to start adjusting their expectations.
I think men WANT to court their woman but women (so I’m told) have a weird habit of turning their every move, date, and feeling into a social media post or story.
Men who court expect some kind of reciprocal behavior from women too.
Women shouldn't expect traditional treatment from men unless she is a traditional woman herself (past, morals, reactions to interactions, etc.) And there are so FEW women like that, how is a man supposed to know? Magically read her mind?
If the woman isn't a virgin waiting until marriage, with no tattoos, and no college loan debt, she isn't traditional.
Plus, the MAJORITY of women financially abuse men and treat them like an ATM, especially the ones that use a man to put her through college and then end the relationship. Just a bunch of abusive thieves.
Because a lot of boys grew up entitled and are accustomed to instant gratification. It’s embedded in the culture. The end goal is sex, like your body is some kind of prize to conquer or win; and a lot of boys will take the path of least resistance to get there. The so called feminist movement empowers girls to feel they are worth more than just a night in the sack and, not surprisingly we find the same boys irritated and frustrated that girls have a choice in finding a man who best suits them
case in point, my mother in law told my eight year old son how wonderful he is to be the power and the force of righteousness while telling my three year old daughter she’s a temptress and serves to beguile men. When questioned, my mother in law said this is the way God ordained roles for men and women
fuck tradition.
In one word, it's unrewarding for men. This is very nearly 2024 and not even 1990. Today women have more choice than ever before with social media the sexual market place being globalized and nearly every woman who is average thinks that she's a 9 or 10. Swiping patterns from dating apps clearly show that female swiping patterns are highly skewed with most men being unattractive to most women.
Most men are coming to the conclusion that participating in the courting ritual is akin to using 1950s social norms in 2023 which is hurtful to their finances, time and mental health.
Without turning this into a "men versus women" kind of post, I'd say that so few men are into courting women because so few of us have pleasant experiences doing it. Even if a man doesn't get laid at the end of the night, he can still have a fantastic experience courting women who actually appreciate the effort. Unfortunately, so few women do appreciate that effort (and actually, there are a lot of women out there who actively resent and belittle us for putting in the effort) and that makes it pretty tough to get excited about putting in the work.
Why would I put on airs for someone who is extremely likely to look at what I'm doing as a reason to talk shit on me with her friends?
I feel like western women's standards nowadays are just too high of men and they're egotistical and have none of the traits a guy wants in a girl. I'm not saying every western girl is like that, but the majority are.
There's a relatively new term being thrown around recently on social media called "passport bros". And honestly, I consider myself a passport bro. Here are some videos on it if you're curious:
https://youtube. com/shorts/VRSjJtVOuEk? si=DK8dk0Z31wYunpC0
https://youtu. be/N6IPbolCdsM? si=LmU_wh-xWQJVK8i_
Because it is a pain in the arse.
From what I've seen, ladies tend to value a man's ability to go through hardships for her... but that doesn't mean men enjoy those hardships. It is a cost / benefit thing. And more often these days it is regarded as not being worth the effort.
Plus it is worth keeping in mind that girls are pickier than ever before now. The cost of investing time and effort in someone only to end in failure is going up all the time. So men are less willing to expend the effort on what will most likely be a waste... and so the ladies in turn get more sick and tired of low-effort men and get even pickier.
Long story short, we're probably all better off alone at this point.
The point in trying is that there young and that it's 2024 pretty much. Old traditional values are dying and men are being raised to treat women as equals. Reading so many posts here over the years makes me think that courting a woman is dying out because of how gender roles have changed a lot.
You still have some women and men that are these older traditions as important but you have a lot of men losing more than women (on avg) in divorces, living expenses so high that people get married much later, and some people just don't want to be married anymore.
Regarding men treating women badly. Many women treat men badly too. People just don't always treat each other nicely period. That's unfortunate but true. You're 27 so don't worry. Things will get better.
Yeah. Often we wake up in the morning with an erection. My girlfriend has said she's reached over in the middle of the night to find I'm fully erect.
When I was first with my girlfriend I was having erections problems related to anxiety, stress, a bereavement and fear of performance issues that lasted about a month. Viagra didn't seem to help. Also we were trying late in the night. One time after we tried and failed we fell asleep naked together cuddling with her the little spoon and me the big spoon. So somewhere in the middle of the night around 5am I'm hard and she's awoken to being penetrated in her sleep and me humping her sideways still asleep and she just goes with it. So she wakes me up by sucking on my very hard erect penis at 8am on a Sunday
